Desperately need legal advice, please...

[Mon]

Hi, my husband and I are in a pretty desperate need of legal advice and will be most grateful if someone could help, please.

Some time ago a couple of people we knew (Mr X & Mr Y) set up a business and asked my husband to help them design and print some labels for their products. My husband designed the labels and placed an order with a printing company on behalf of the business in question. Mr X & Mr Y picked up the labels from the printer and a 30-day credit invoice was issued in their company’s name.
Several weeks later they stopped trading, they either dissolved their company or went bankrupt (that’s sth we don’t know), however, as it turns out, they never paid for the labels we’ve ordered for them.

My husband provided the printer with his mobile phone number when he was placing the order and the printers must have now passed it on to a debt collecting agency who have recently started chasing us for the payment.
We’re really worried, as the debt collector is now threatening to take us to court. My husband only designed the labels and ordered them on someone else's behalf, but the debt collector says it’s him who is now responsible for the debt even though the invoice was issued to a business we had no involvement with.

We'd be truly grateful for some help and advice, as we're feeling totally lost and helpless. Many thanks in advance and best regards to all.

 

[Geoff T]

1st question - was the firm set up by the people you knew an LTD?

2nd question - do you have ANYTHING in writing from them asking you to do the work, and order goods, on their behalf?

3rd question - how much money are the collectors after?

 

If the invoice has been issued to there company name , tell the debt collector to take a running jump.

Earl

 

[Mon]

Hi and thank you SO much for such prompt replies! We're both incredibly grateful.

In answer to your questions:

- The company was an LTD and it still figures on the Company's House website with full address details and the following status: 'Active - Proposal to Strike off'.

- Unfortunately, we haven't got anything in writing from them asking us to do the work. The only thing we have is an email from my husband to the printing company advising them he's had a decision from the company in question to pursue with the printing.

- Debt - around £550.

Many thanks again for all your help, it's much appreciated!

 

[Geoff T]

If the invoice has been issued to there company name , tell the debt collector to take a running jump.

Earl

1st question - was the firm set up by the people you knew an LTD?

2nd question - do you have ANYTHING in writing from them asking you to do the work, and order goods, on their behalf?

3rd question - how much money are the collectors after?

Hi and thank you SO much for such prompt replies! We're both incredibly grateful.

In answer to your questions:

- The company was an LTD and it still figures on the Company's House website with full address details and the following status: 'Active - Proposal to Strike off'.

- Unfortunately, we haven't got anything in writing from them asking us to do the work. The only thing we have is an email from my husband to the printing company advising them he's had a decision from the company in question to pursue with the printing.

- Debt - around £550.

Many thanks again for all your help, it's much appreciated!

Based on what you've said - I'm in agreement with Earl - tell 'em to go talk to the LTD, upon who's authority you were operating independently, and without liability...

In Earl's words "running jump", my favourite "do one"...!

Same result!

 

[Mon]

Thank you all so much for help and advice! It's been a bit of a nightmare for us, as we acted in good faith and never expected that helping someone would cause us so much trouble! Many thanks again and have a good night everyone, m.

 

[Geoff T]

job done then? happy customer?

Shout if not, OP... the dogs sometimes need more than "heel" to back off...

Happy to help if they won't 'sit' and 'beg' as required...

 

[The Resolver]

(with my Jerry Springer end-of-show-homily voice) The reason Mon is safe is because the printer invoiced X/Y's company. Without that Mon would just be the customer of the printer in a supply chain. So if you find yourself in a similar situation subbing out work and want to avoid the worry that Mon went through until Geoff and Earl put her at her ease, then just ensure the supplier agrees in writing at the outset that you are just passing on a customer who is to be the customer of the supplier and is to be invoiced direct.

 

[Michael Gerard]

Hey boys, not so fast. Graham, remember 'you can assign a benefit but not a burden', and the burden here is to pay. It is not by virtue which company the invoice is made out to, but who are the actual contracting parties.

What would concern me is how the order was placed by Mon to the printers. If it was merely an introduction, then there is no relationship between Mon and the printers. But if the enquiry was made by Mon, the quote was issued to Mon, and the order placed by Mon without expressly stating that the order was on behalf of XYZ Ltd, the printers may have a cause.

However, until an invoice is made out to and sent to Mon, how can there be a debt against Mon?

Having put my penny's worth in, I would use the evidence of the invoice to show that the printers were fully aware that they were in contract with XYZ Ltd - otherwise why send it? So remember, the invoice is only part of the evidence.

 

If the invoice has been issued to there company name , tell the debt collector to take a running jump.

Earl

Based on what you've said - I'm in agreement with Earl - tell 'em to go talk to the LTD, upon who's authority you were operating independently, and without liability...

In Earl's words "running jump", my favourite "do one"...!

Same result!

Yup couldn't agree more! The debt collectors are just trying it on, using scare tactics (which, have worked) - be strong and remember that the invoice was in X/Y Ltd and not your husband personally.

They will leave you alone.

One question though is it just phone calls or are you recieving letters?

Lucy

 

Hey boys, not so fast. Graham, remember 'you can assign a benefit but not a burden', and the burden here is to pay. It is not by virtue which company the invoice is made out to, but who are the actual contracting parties.

What would concern me is how the order was placed by Mon to the printers. If it was merely an introduction, then there is no relationship between Mon and the printers. But if the enquiry was made by Mon, the quote was issued to Mon, and the order placed by Mon without expressly stating that the order was on behalf of XYZ Ltd, the printers may have a cause.

However, until an invoice is made out to and sent to Mon, how can there be a debt against Mon?

Having put my penny's worth in, I would use the evidence of the invoice to show that the printers were fully aware that they were in contract with XYZ Ltd - otherwise why send it? So remember, the invoice is only part of the evidence.

So the printers just hand over the goods to complete strangers ,without any authority from Mon.?

Earl

 

[oldeagleeye]

Unfortunately as most of you know Mon has got caught up in a growing trend these days whereby suppliers and indeed the banks simply call in the debt collectors without bothering to go to court.

What is worse is that these new breed of debt collectors unlike the more genuine trade debt collectors like Justin Interim are not too shy when it comes to using abusive & threatening behaviour and there is only one way of dealing with that. Retaliate. Albeit in a calm but confident manner.

Tell the debt collector that you are in dispute over this claim and you will only deal with the company direct. Then tell the company to go to court - in which case you will counterclaim. In the meantime any further contact by debt collectors will be regarded as harassment and you will inform the police and lodge a complaint as regards both parties Consumer Credit Licence.

As regards this particular case. Didn't the OP state that her husband had emailed the printer confirming the company wanted to proceed with the order. That together with an invoice made out to the company and delivered to the company's address means end of story in my book. No case to answer.

In fact as well as threatening to counter claim I would write a shirty letter to the printers say it's the last time that hubby is going to provide them with work if this is the way he is treated.

 

[Stevencon]

If there is an invoice issued to some particullar company that your husbant had no involvement with they can't ask anything from him. I think that this is some kind of a strange scaring tactic. But if they so what not you too. Tell them to look for the money from the comapny that they issued the invoice to and "scare" them by telling that you have hire a lawer and if thay what somethng from you to get it by your lawer.

 

[saxondale]

say it's the last time that hubby is going to provide them with work if this is the way he is treated.

bet they are relieved.

 

[R&J]

This actually depends on how the deal was done.

If you have placed an order for business cards with a view to be delivered to you with a view to invoicing the company for them then you might be liable for the debt since you will have personally contracted.

If you have placed the order on behalf of the company that went to the wall then you will not be liable.

 

[Zeno]

Prima facie it does seem as though the printing company knew they were contracting with XYZ Ltd but not necessarily. How was the initial order placed? Do you remember the wording used at the time?

(I am sure many people have come across the situation that after completing work and have been told "bill it to ABC etc". This does not change the fact that the contract was with the original party)

 

Prima facie it does seem as though the printing company knew they were contracting with XYZ Ltd but not necessarily. How was the initial order placed? Do you remember the wording used at the time?

(I am sure many people have come across the situation that after completing work and have been told "bill it to ABC etc". This does not change the fact that the contract was with the original party)

If they issued an invoice to the company thats who the expect to get the money from.End of.

Earl

 

[Zeno]

If they issued an invoice to the company thats who the expect to get the money from.End of.

Earl

Prove they issued an invoice to this company...

 

Prove they issued an invoice to this company...

"Mr X & Mr Y picked up the labels from the printer and a 30-day credit invoice was issued in their company’s name. "

Now would you like me to prove the theory of relativity.?

You will have to give me 10 minutes or so.

Earl

 

[saxondale]

"Mr X & Mr Y picked up the labels from the printer and a 30-day credit invoice was issued in their company’s name. "

Now would you like me to prove the theory of relativity.?

You will have to give me 10 minutes or so.

Earl

no, he said "prove" not just repeat what was said by the OP, maybe it was the OP`s husband issued the invoice referenced above.



Standard dropshipping no?

 

[Zeno]

"Mr X & Mr Y picked up the labels from the printer and a 30-day credit invoice was issued in their company’s name. "

Now would you like me to prove the theory of relativity.?

You will have to give me 10 minutes or so.

Earl

Wouldn't understand the physics but I do know that if this ever went to court, no doubt the company in question will have changed the invoice to show Mr Mon as the customer. They possibly have an email (or worse purchase order) from Mr Mon to back this up while the Mons don't have a lot.

Of course, unlikely to come to this and I doubt that we are talking vast sums of money.

 

Wouldn't understand the physics but I do know that if this ever went to court, no doubt the company in question will have changed the invoice to show Mr Mon as the customer.

now when you go to court you have to swear to tell the truth or you burn in hell along with all them lawyers.

That would be illegal.

Earl

 

[Lawyer]

But you can often prove a document is faked and look at what people have on their systems and dates/times of documents and drafts. The principal point here is the contract was with the ultimate customer so no liability. You need a stiff letter to the debt agency.

 

[saxondale]

But you can often prove a document is faked and look at what people have on their systems and dates/times of documents and drafts. The principal point here is the contract was with the ultimate customer so no liability. You need a stiff letter to the debt agency.

somewhere is a lawyer posting exactly the opposite ............... unless we see the original contract?

 

[internetspaceships]

Why are we overcomplicating this?

The OP says the invoice was made out to the other company not her/him.

As such treat the scenario as exactly that eh?

If there is no paper trail suggesting the OP bought the goods on her own behalf, and there is an invoice to the other company without the OPs details on it, then the creditor has no business chasing the OP.

I'm with Earl on this one- - honest!