Deprivation of Property

[larkfield]

I allowed a business associate to store some items in a workshop without rent or agreement, he was supposed to rent the workshop , eventually he decided he no longer wanted to rent the workshop. I asked him on several occasions to remove the items, he did not do so, so I sent him a bill for storage which he ignored, I have now changed the locks on the workshop. I gave him a final 4 day window to remove his goods he hasnt done so.

He has now gone to his solicitors who are asking for his items back, however he has caused substanstial damage to the workshop whilst storing his items. I am going to offer him his items back, or he can leave them in lieu of a substantial counterclaim for damage to the unit.

There are no written agreements from either party. sadly this is what happens when you do a favour.

any thoughts or suggestions welcome

 

[WaveJumper]

As he has already got a solicitor engaged, and assuming now the situation could well spiral out of control would you be able to prove he damaged the workshop i.e. have you got photos of before and after as that’s the first thing his solicitor is probably going to ask you.
Is the damage worth the hassle or cost if you need to instruct your own solicitor. I can understand this must be really frustrating especially as you were doing some one a favour but is this a case of lesson learnt and time to move on.

 

[larkfield]

Yes he has already engaged a solicitor, who claims he is going to pursue me personally as well as my LTD company , which I find hard to believe.

The damage to the building is £3000

I was going to suggest.

1. Take your stuff. and I will pursue you for the damages to the bulilding

2. Leave the stuff in lieu of the damages and I will sell them to cover my losses... the stuff is worth about £2600

 

[larkfield]

storage bill is another £2000

 

[WaveJumper]

Has he actually acknowledged the damage he has caused?

 

[larkfield]

No he hasnt acknowledged but I have photographic evidence showing how it was stacked against the building, and it is his items

 

[larkfield]

I have two witnesses too

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

Did you agree storage charges in advance? If you just sent him a storage bill with no warning that the charges would be incurred if the items were not removed, I'm afraid that you are unlikely to get this paid.

As you said, you were doing him a favour (ie. not charging for storage), so that is likely to be what the legal system sees.

However, they have a duty of care not to damage your property - if they have done so, you can pursue them for the cost of the repair. You will need to prove that they did it though, and noted that you have photos and 2 witnesses, which should help your cause.

I am not sure on the legal position of keeping hold of their property - I suggest you get some legal advice on your particular circumstances. Ideally if you can keep hold of their property, you will have some leverage to negotiate on the costs of your property damage. If you have to return their property, you will only be left with the option of taking legal action against them via the small claims court.

As a starting point, I would suggest getting a formal quote for the £3,000 repairs and formally submitting this to them, holding them fully responsible and requesting payment in full. Note however, that in real terms you have not suffered this loss until such time as you have incurred the £3,000 loss - to legally pursue them you will need to have repaired the damage, so you can formally prove that you have suffered the costs of the repairs. If the damage is something that you can live with and do not intend to repair, any formal legal action may be unsuccessful.

 

[Paul Norman]

As suggested above, the first step is to set out, clearly, in writing, what your proposals are.

Actually no. The first step is to stay absolutely calm. It is important this does not take up too much of your emotional energy, and equally important that you do not over react. Yup, this person has messed you about and cost you money. But right up until the letter from the solicitor, you had not mentioned the damage to him, I assume.

So, back to paragraph one. Make it a detailed description of what has happened, and what the outstanding costs are, and mention the supporting evidence. Be very precise.

Then give it a moment, and decide whether you are willing to take this the distance. If you are, send the letter to both them and their solicitor, and see what the reaction is. It might be a counter claim. It might be an offer of some kind of settlement.

It might be the beginning of one of those long, drawn out, complex legal disputes that make it to the Daily Mail.

 

[Mark T Jones]

This has a little early warning flag of one of those cases where 2 lawyers rub their hands together whilst 2 individuals get poorer with no gain.

If it isn't too late (you'll be surprise how late too late is), the best outcome - always - is for the 2 of you to get together and reach a settlement.

You have no legal basis to claim rent (IMO), but you can ask him to cough up for repairs or to make good the damage himself. As above, get a formal quote for reasonable repairs.

EDIT: Overlapped with @Paul Norman - who always gives good advice

 

[The Byre]

This has a little early warning flag of one of those cases where 2 lawyers rub their hands together whilst 2 individuals get poorer with no gain.

THIS!

@larkfield just going down the litigation route will cost you each more than the disputed sums involved. Lawyers' fees start at around £200 per hour, plus VAT. Now add court costs onto that and you will begin to see where you are heading - nowhere good!

You might like to contact @smallclaimsassistance for a cheaper way of doing things, but altogether, remember the old joke about litigation - you enter this process as a pig, and leave it as sausages!

 

[IanSuth]

What about just saying to him you will let him have his property back immediately if he will sign a legal undertaking to make your property back to the condition it was in prior to his usage within an agreed timescale to be determined after 2 independent quotes on the work needed to do so.

That to me would leave you both in the best position afterwards, you get your property back and usable, he gets his items back

And if it does end up going legal you can be shown to have made a fair offer - and if sent via his solicitor then a positive reply via them would be a legal undertaking surely

 

[smallclaimsassistance]

This has a little early warning flag of one of those cases where 2 lawyers rub their hands together whilst 2 individuals get poorer with no gain.

This, is absolutely right in this case.

This case would very likely be allocated to the Small Claims Track, so the rule would be no costs, but if this case goes on for any length of time, and you are unrepresented, his solicitors will put pressure on you to pay not only damages but also his legal costs. You wouldn't be ordered to do so at trial, but there are ways of structuring offers which would put considerable pressure on you to settle on the basis that you end up paying his legal costs. Trial is always a risky business, a risk which increases if you are not repesented, and your opponent is.

If you are on the other hand represented, you don't need to worry about his legal costs - you'll have your own bill to worry about.

As Mark correctly says, there are no winners in a Small Claims case where both parties are legally represented, as any victory would be pyrrhic.

As advised above, your best bet is to come to a swift compromise with your opponent, which takes into account both his losses and yours.

Dean