Denied The Small Business Grant

[Lilac11]

Hi there,

I was really hoping to hear of anyone else that may have either been denied or granted the £10,000 due to slightly unusual circumstances.

I'll try and keep this brief but please bare with me!

Once the government grant scheme for small businesses was announced we were pleased. Due to the nature of our small company we took the decision to completely close the company for 7 weeks. When we tried to apply for the grant we realised we were not on the ratings list. We assumed the rates was something that our landlord dealt but didn't realise the property had never been valued or listed. In hindsight, we should have perhaps looked into it as we were the first tenants in the property (a converted barn on farmland) but that's by the by now.

We managed to get in touch with the Valuation Office Agency over the lockdown period and they added us to the ratings list in May, but our occupation was backdated to April 2019 as that's when we occupied the property. Following our listing our local authority sent us a rate bills which was dated May 2020 but was backdated from April 2019. As our rateable value is under £12,000 we are entitled to claim small business rates relief retrospectively from April 2019.

Long story short, we applied for the grant and was awarded it, then due to a bank issue our bank rejected it. Upon contacting the Local Authority they looked into and decided we were not eligible after all as we didn't tell them prior to 11 March 2020 that we were in occupation. Despite having bills from the local authority that state we were in occupation from 1st April 2019 they are sticking by the fact that we should have notified them prior to 11 March 2020.

I was curious to know if there are any other companies out there that feel that they have had an unjust decision by their local authority or equally managed to get the grant awarded despite not reaching full eligibly.

Many thanks!

 

[ecommerce84]

As it happens another poster had a similar issue (from memory) and had a positive outcome.

I‘ll try and find the thread when I’m on my laptop later unless you come across it (or someone else does) in the meantime.

Best course of action is probably to keep hassling the Council. They paid it once so obviously thought you were entitled then. With a bit of luck they’ll either reassess and pay it or get so fed up of hearing from you they’ll pay it to get rid of you.

 

[Alan]

You should find out if your local council has a discretionary grant fund for the business that fall through the gaps, I think they all should have.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...thority-discretionary-fund-la-guidance-v2.pdf

Our council scheme details https://www.woking.gov.uk/discretionarygrants

 

[motpo]

Similar happened to me. I had been in occupation since 2017 but didn't tell the council until after March 11th 2020. They ummed and ahhed for a bit but I did get the grant eventually.

 

[Porky]

Honestly, have you seen the application form for the Local Authority discretionary fund (LADF) what a bloody joke.

Submit accounts, proof of loss of income, trading statements, copies of your rent agreement, copies of every bills and this is to get up a £5k grant award for businesses that didn’t qualify for the 10k or 25k grants because they fell through the gaps of the scheme.

The council really don’t want to give this cash out do they!

 

[MarkOnline]

Honestly, have you seen the application form for the Local Authority discretionary fund (LADF) what a bloody joke.

Submit accounts, proof of loss of income, trading statements, copies of your rent agreement, copies of every bills and this is to get up a £5k grant award for businesses that didn’t qualify for the 10k or 25k grants because they fell through the gaps of the scheme.

The council really don’t want to give this cash out do they!

Or maybe they want the money to go to genuine cases who are entitled to it. Reading some of the replies over the weeks where " we forgot" to register for business rates for whatever period of time , well maybe they did forget or more likely they thought, if I dont tell em then I wont have to pay anything. Then this pandemic and the government use business rates as the criteria for elegibility for a grant ..............what a ba####d eh.

 

[Lilac11]

Similar happened to me. I had been in occupation since 2017 but didn't tell the council until after March 11th 2020. They ummed and ahhed for a bit but I did get the grant eventually.

Motpo, would you mind messaging me directly and tell me who your local authority is? There is a guidance that the councils are working towards which is 'if the local authorities believe that the rating list was factually incorrect on the 11 March then they are able to award the grand' this case is true in yours and mine as it was incorrect by the fact we were not listed. I think if I can refer to another local authority awarding the grant in the same circumstances it will help my case.

 

[Lilac11]

Or maybe they want the money to go to genuine cases who are entitled to it. Reading some of the replies over the weeks where " we forgot" to register for business rates for whatever period of time , well maybe they did forget or more likely they thought, if I dont tell em then I wont have to pay anything. Then this pandemic and the government use business rates as the criteria for elegibility for a grant ..............what a ba####d eh.

You are entitled to the grant if you qualify for small business rates relief, therefore your rates bill will be zero after the relief is applied anyway, so whether the council were told about occupation or not you would not need to pay the rates so it's not actually a case of trying to get away with paying for anything as there would have been nothing to pay anyway.

 

[MarkOnline]

You are entitled to the grant if you qualify for small business rates relief, therefore your rates bill will be zero after the relief is applied anyway, so whether the council were told about occupation or not you would not need to pay the rates so it's not actually a case of trying to get away with paying for anything as there would have been nothing to pay anyway.

I agree but some are so stupid they dont know that, so decide not to register to avoid any possible liability.

 

[Lilac11]

I agree but some are so stupid they dont know that, so decide not to register to avoid any possible liability.

Indeed, but equally there are cases like mine where we have genuinely not given it a second thought. This was due to our property being on farmland and we were under the impression it was registered under a rural rates scheme that was dealt with by our landlord. It was only when the grant scheme came into place that we thought, great! we can apply and then discovered the property wasn't actually listed. It's incredibly frustrating as I know of companies personally that have been awarded the grant despite not needing it but then a company like ours completely closed and took zero income for 7 weeks is being denied it, when I know the council have the ability to award it. Rather frustratingly our local authority have bragged about how much they have helped local businesses on their social media feeds with the grant scheme but are unwilling to help us when I know other local authorities are awarding the grant to companies in a similar situation to us. It seems as though it's the local authorise discretion whether to award or not which seems completely unjust to me!

We could apply for the discretionary grant, but you can't have both so I want to see if I can dispute their refusal on the small business grant first which is why it would be so helpful if I can back up my case with similar cases like mine.

 

[Mr D]

Honestly, have you seen the application form for the Local Authority discretionary fund (LADF) what a bloody joke.

Submit accounts, proof of loss of income, trading statements, copies of your rent agreement, copies of every bills and this is to get up a £5k grant award for businesses that didn’t qualify for the 10k or 25k grants because they fell through the gaps of the scheme.

The council really don’t want to give this cash out do they!

Councils have been raked over coals before by being too free with the money. Now they want paper trail for showing the payment was justified.
May well have to defend decision in court.

 

[jimbof]

Indeed, but equally there are cases like mine where we have genuinely not given it a second thought. This was due to our property being on farmland and we were under the impression it was registered under a rural rates scheme that was dealt with by our landlord. It was only when the grant scheme came into place that we thought, great! we can apply and then discovered the property wasn't actually listed. It's incredibly frustrating as I know of companies personally that have been awarded the grant despite not needing it but then a company like ours completely closed and took zero income for 7 weeks is being denied it, when I know the council have the ability to award it. Rather frustratingly our local authority have bragged about how much they have helped local businesses on their social media feeds with the grant scheme but are unwilling to help us when I know other local authorities are awarding the grant to companies in a similar situation to us. It seems as though it's the local authorise discretion whether to award or not which seems completely unjust to me!

We could apply for the discretionary grant, but you can't have both so I want to see if I can dispute their refusal on the small business grant first which is why it would be so helpful if I can back up my case with similar cases like mine.

The discretionary grant fund will disappear pretty quick, it is a tiny bit of money. If you are going to apply for it ever I'd be doing it now.

I guess the learning here is to make sure all your paperwork is in order. I know 2 lots of folk who weren't because they figured they wouldn't need to pay anything so why bother getting the council updated. I'm in the same building as one of them, yet when I moved in I actually contacted the council to find out what was required.

Luckily here the council did sort out both of them (Norwich City council) and they did get the grant, though they were slightly different because they were existing business premises that were valued and on the register, and they both had tenancy agreements with a landlord in place.

Claiming there is a business where there was none recorded previously is an obvious vector for fraud (I'm not saying you are doing this, but you can see why it is a problem), and obviously from the council's point of view, they won't have been given funds from Central govt for properties that didn't "exist" on the dates in question - it would have been based on properties they knew about. So it seems there position is fairly reasonable in the circumstance.

It's possible they've had to claw back the money because they've fallen short of what they needed as more businesses (whose premises were registered) have claimed.

Good luck!

 

[Airwolf1]

Lilac - you need to appeal the decision. Prove you were in occupation prior to 11 March (utility bill etc) and send that with the appeal. Originally the rules were that you wouldn't have got the grant, but then the government slightly changed this and councils could pay it to companies who on their systems weren't registered but were actually in the property. (Obviously the company gets registered on the councils systems too at the same time here).

 

[Lilac11]

Lilac - you need to appeal the decision. Prove you were in occupation prior to 11 March (utility bill etc) and send that with the appeal. Originally the rules were that you wouldn't have got the grant, but then the government slightly changed this and councils could pay it to companies who on their systems weren't registered but were actually in the property. (Obviously the company gets registered on the councils systems too at the same time here).

Hi Airwolf1, I have appealed the decision and it was further denied. They are firmly sticking by the fact that we can not provide evidence that we notified them or the VOA we were in occupation prior to 11 March - this is despite the fact they have backdated our rates bills to April 2019, despite the fact that VOA now have us listed as being in occupation from 11th April 2019 and despite that I have provided invoices from last year to the property. There is guidance which states:

Rating List Changes Exceptions:
In cases where it is factually clear to the Local Authority on the 11 March 2020 that the rating list was inaccurate on that date, Local Authorities may withhold the grant and/or award the grant based on their view of who would have been entitled to the grant should the list have been correct.

Our local authority is refusing to abide by this guidance.

Do you when/why the government slightly amended their guidance?

 

[Airwolf1]

Hi. I assume you are now getting SBRR? If so, then this applies: Hereditaments included in this scheme are those which on the 11 March 2020 were eligible for relief under the business rate Small Business Rate Relief Scheme (including those with a Rateable Value between £12,000 and £15,000 which receive tapered relief).

I had 2 links to give but I'm not allowed to post them as yet unfortunately as I haven't posted enough times, but I would contact your local MP about it as I know lots of councils who have paid out in circumstances like yours.

I would persevere in this instance. Perhaps look at the Local Government Ombudsman too, or suggest you will take the case there.