Customer refusing to pay invoice

[Temetnosce]

Hi
I'm a plumber (sole trader) who is having issues with a customer.

To cut a long story short, works were agreed with a customer (emailed quote and specification) for a refurbishment of a shower. The costing named the products that were to be installed, which is what the customer agreed to.

After installing the shower tray ready for the next stage of the work the customer contacted me to say they had concerns about the suitability of the tray.

I had specified for a "slim line" shower tray (that's all I ever install). The customer said they felt that the tray needed to be a "deep" tray otherwise there would be the risk of it overflowing!

This is a standard product that is installed every day by many a plumber. At no point during our communication and work did the customer make any specific requests or raise any concerns regarding what was to be installed.

I fully explained in great detail via email (customer refused to answer the phone to me) the differences in slim line tray and that actually the water flows away quicker because the waste/traps you install with them are larger.

The customer wouldn't accept this and said they wanted to get a second opinion. I advised them that this was fine and that I was keen to move forward with the work.

The customer continued to raise various questions about the work via email, which I duely answered, but every time I asked if things had moved forward I was told they had not yet had time and that they still felt the tray wasn't suitable. From this I'm assuming they had not got anyone in to assess the perfectly standard shower tray (or maybe they had!!!)

On a side matter, the customer made comment at various stages of the work about money being tight, and not having any more money. During the work we discovered an unrelated plumbing issue with her water tank in the loft which needed attention. This was fully discussed with the customer and a quote given to rectify this. The customer again said they had no further money until November and asked if I would undertake the additional necessary work, then continue with the shower refurbishment until the work in total reached the initial agreed amount. Then, once they had more money in November, the remaining work on the shower refurbishment could be completed, and the last outstanding sum paid. I agreed to this, and the work proceeded on.

So, after numerous emails I was starting to worry that this was always about not paying, and they have used a ridiculous excuse (the shower tray) in an attempt to do so.

They even made comment in an email that I had pursueded them into the majority of the work, which they didn't need doing in the first place and they were perfectly happy as it was! Which is strange, because if they had looked back over our 30 odd emails they would have seen they had sent me requests off their own back for items they were interested in etc. taking a very active role in the specification that was to be agreed.

18 days had passed since they had contacted me about the shower tray concerns, with still way forward despite my attempts.

I would just just like to add, the shower tray is completely fine and fit for purpose.

So, with the added concerns about getting paid I have sent them an invoice for the work undertaken to date, including all the supplied items etc. Givening them 14 days to pay. I also explained that I was more than happy to continue with the work, but would like the invoiced settled before continuing with any further work. Which was pretty much agreed with them before them the additional required work came to light.

They had previously had a full detailed cost breakdown from me (individual labour and material charges), so they knew exactly what had been spent to date.

Follwing the invoice they replied by saying that they are still not happy with the tray, although they are still not advising what action if any has been taken by them, and that they would not pay me until all the work was complete. Which is actually contrary to our second agreement of stopping at the first agreed figure.

I'm not sure what else I can do to move things forward? I feel like they are purposely dragging their heals.

Where do I stand legally with issuing the invoice despite the agreed work not yet being complete?

Plus, I don't want to lift another tool in their house until I see the money due?

Is this the sort of situation that ends up in the small claims court? (Never had the experience)

Any advice and help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Spongebob]

Unfortunately you've just been landed with 'One Of Those Customers'!

The only way to combat this scenario in the future is to take a deposit equal to at least the cost of materials before starting to do any work at all. Personally I always insist on 50% of the total price upfront.

If a customer jibs at paying a deposit it means one of two things;

1. They havent got the money.

2. They are problem customers in the making.

Either way you are better off without them.


In this case I would cut my losses, go and retrieve my shower tray and any pipework, leave them without any hot water, and tell them to sod off.


Another thing; what's all this about invoices and 14 days to pay? Most tradesmen I know expect a cheque, cash or a bank transfer before they leave the house. Why would you give anyone 14 days to pay?

 

[Temetnosce]

Why would I cut my losses? My post is about how I progress this further from a legal aspect.

Surely this could be taken to court if needs be?

The only reason why I have given them 14 days to pay, is so if this does end up in court, I have shown that I have given the customer plenty of time to pay.

I was advised the 14 days by someone who has had a bit of experience of taking non payers to court.

 

[simon field]

... someone who has had a bit of experience of taking non payers to court.

That's exactly the sort of person's advive you should ignore!

I'm taking a non-payer down the legal route as we speak - but ultimately it was ME who allowed him to run up a bill and I will really only have myself to blame if I don't get paid.

I was wrong and I admit it - I knew the risks.

Spongebob's advice is sound. For a few hundred quid it's really not worth putting the time and money into it which you could otherwise be using to push your business forward.

 

[Spongebob]

Why would I cut my losses?

Because potentially you could waste more time and nervous energy on this than you stand to gain through taking it to court.

It's seldom a good idea to sue a customer. Particularly in a case like this where the job is unfinished and the customer will inevitably come up a very long list of complaints about your workmanship, your misrepresentation, and your poor customer service.

It may well be all lies, but it is almost impossible to fight back against without sounding like a cowboy builder.

Cut your losses and move on to your next job where you will hopefully earn some money. And learn from the experience - take deposits.

 

[estwig]

You've had sound advice here.

Tell her everything is fine and you are coming round to carry on, don't be specific about what you will be carrying on with. Remove the tray, pipes and anything else you that belongs to you.

Leave and never have contact with this customer again.

You will never see any money from this job, all that will happen is more and more of your time will be sucked away.

Man up and take it on the chin!

 

[Blue Steel]

Agree with estwig and the others, don't waste your energy on these kind of people. I know how angry and used it makes me feel when I let one get past my radar, your situation here could of been worse if you had finished the job and then they not pay up / invent issues ect.

Tell them you'd like to get this sorted, that at no extra charge you will swop the shower tray for them and complete the work,

Go around and remove your slimilne tray and waste ect. pack up your tools and say your off to fetch the new tray, back shortly.

When they start emailing you just reply once to say it's out of stock. You may find they even decide it's okay to phone you know.

 

[maxine]

Unfortunately I agree with Spongebob and Estwig ... you will have a tough job on your hands taking this to court and it's more money in costs and too much brain energy than it's worth.

Go and collect your stuff, mitigate your losses as much as possible without causing costly "damage" to the room you were working in send a final bill explaining costs for the stage you have left things at then walk away. Possibly, leave them with the option of coming back to you with a new tray that they pay for and source themselves or pay you upfront for and an option to pay the rest of what is due to have the work completed.

Taking deposits or getting people to choose their items themselves means they are more careful up front with their money rather than wildly spending yours and dithering afterwards

 

[Homer J Simpson]

Just be careful as I believe removing 'fixed' items which you have now made part of the building can land you in trouble.

But, get them on email to agree to you removing the shower tray and you should be fine.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Be careful with the removal of products that you've installed, I'm pretty certain this could land you in choppy waters...

Forgive me if I've missed it but, have they paid you anything at all yet?

If not... I'd much rather walk away from a problematic customer than keep fueling them with more crap to fire at me in court.

 

[Geoff T]

In this case I would cut my losses, go and retrieve my shower tray and any pipework, leave them without any hot water, and tell them to sod off.

You've had sound advice here.

Tell her everything is fine and you are coming round to carry on, don't be specific about what you will be carrying on with. Remove the tray, pipes and anything else you that belongs to you.

Agree with estwig and the others, don't waste your energy on these kind of people. I know how angry and used it makes me feel...

...

Just be careful as I believe removing 'fixed' items which you have now made part of the building can land you in trouble.

But, get them on email to agree to you removing the shower tray and you should be fine.

Be careful with the removal of products that you've installed, I'm pretty certain this could land you in choppy waters... If not... I'd much rather walk away from a problematic customer than keep fueling them with more crap to fire at me in court.

I know there's been a number of comments on this forum recently about how third party agents - like me - have no powers or value: with MCOL (and highly "informative" online forums) being available to the small business owner... here's a case in point...

The first 3 replies above - advising removal of product - are all from members involved (directly or indirectly) with "trades" so they'll feel it more than most - and therefore relate closely to the "anger issue" mentioned by Blue Steel... doesn't make it right though...

As Homer and Haunted World commented, leaving someone without hot water will just open the OP up to a counter claim which will - without a doubt - amount to way more than they are currently owed... I'm sure the rest missed that!

Secondly - using any of the tactics which rely on falsehood or deception to gain entry to remove your material would be a huge mistake in my opinion...

I spend a lot of my time "talking down" clients who want to - in effect - do something that makes them feel better, rather than getting paid... so they avoid doing anything illegal, or something that could: a) prejudice their case and/or; b) open them up to a counter claim... last one that ignored me libeled the debtor (against my advice), so ended up getting nothing and had to fold the business...

OP - IMO you've done the right thing so far, as you've invoiced for work to date (called "Quantum Meruit" in law), and by the sounds of it you've got the paper trail to prove it, so if you were my client that's what I'd advise... pursue the invoice - and if you have the spare time, temperament to deal with it yourself, then all the best with it...

HTH