customer refusing to pay for 5 days of labour worked

[podrikk007]

i recently set up a small handyman business, i got a job last week repairing worn decking on a caravan, with a new extension to be built, and a driveway to be laid, i quoted £800 for the whole job (a serious underquote i know, but i was happy to complete the job at that price.. it was a newbie mistake i will learn from in the future) anyway, the customer had paid me two payments so far totalling £600, which was around £8 lower than my expenses alone. i finished the decking project, with numerous compliments from the customer, i started the driveway, got halfway through it on the first day(friday) went back on the monday, the driveway had been pulled up, there was no answer at the door, so i called them, and was told she was not happy with my work, and she was not going to pay me for the 5 full days labour i had worked. what am i supposed to do now?, that money was all i had coming in, i had to go to a local loan shark for money to be able to start my next job. someone please tell me what to do.
thanks, ian

 

[sanjiv]

Blimey. Sorry to hear about that. That is just wrong.

Maybe take them to Small Claims Court. ?

 

[podrikk007]

yeah i thought that, but was advised that should be a last resort.

I HAVE CALLED IN PERSON, CALLED ON THE PHONE, SHE HAS MADE IT CLEAR THAT I WAS NOT GETTING PAID!

am i legally within my rights to undo all of the work i have done?. it makes my blood boil knowing that the woman will be sitting there thinking she had got thousands of pounds of work done for free. she can keep the money! it will cost a lot more than that to get it put back together after i have finished

GRRRRRRRR!! HAHA,

 

[roofing solutions]

Dont stand for it mate, if the job was done right and she is just being a ***** go round there and dont leave untill you've got your dough. I would say look at it objectively though, were you definately doing the job correctly? Are you just having a go at the driveway without any experience and could someone have looked at it at the weekend and told her what you were doing was wrong and it needs to be changed?

 

[iaynm]

Some people would go and tear up the decking one day.

 

[podrikk007]

the decking was done exactly to her spec, she told me that she and her husband was over the moon with the job. the driveway was simply 600x600 slabs, dug out, hardcore, wacked, sand and cement screed, and laid. cant go wrong really, had plenty of experience doing it, there was approx 40 slabs laid and maybe 20 to go. and as i said, i turned up to finish it and they had all been pulled up. i was there the day after i laid them (nothing said), but the day after, she wasnt happy. i never got the chance to rectify the ''problem'' not that there was one. she is just a keneiving ***** trying to pull a fast one. i just want to keep my actions legal to try and keep my reputation up!!

 

[maxine]

I dont understand what bit you havent been paid for? Did you just quote verbally or was any of it in writing, was it split down into how much for each job you were doing?

I presume you haven't got anything in your terms and conditions or you written quote about what the process is if someone is unhappy ie; you will charge for the work done so far, or just the materials etc?

 

[podrikk007]

i quoted £800,
the cost to me was £608
i got £600 cash and worked 5 days labour
she refuses to pay me for labour,
so i have done the job free to her, but which cost me £8.
it was a verbal quote, for the whole job.
as i am new to self employment, i dont have any sort of contracts or agreements etc. mainly because i dont know how to write one, or if it has to get wrote for me, i cant afford the costs just yet!

 

[roofing solutions]

What is her explaination for pulling it up?

 

[podrikk007]

all she would say is that they werent right and she wasnt happy. she wouldnt give an explanation or give me the chance to rectify whatever problem there was

 

[MASSEY]

you work really cheap ,

moral of the story dont underprice not that cheap anyway.,

but also you should have made her sign something stating what u were gonna do who was gonna supply the materials, also the amount and method of payment,

You could of had her when she decided to not pay you then,

My advice walk away from it , she sounds like one of them nut job customers anyway.

 

[podrikk007]

yeah i know, but im only used to doing the work, not pricing correctly for it, as i say, its a newbie mistake, it is a lesson learned, but i will not let it drop!!!

 

[roofing solutions]

I would ask her to detail why it wasn't right and why she isn't happy, if what she says to you isn't a genuine explaination and you are totally in the right then I would be very angry indeed. I understand what you are saying about keeping your reputation but if she has no real reason to slate you then i wouldn't worry to much. I know a fella who hung someone off a scaffolding once for a similar problem to yours, the guy seemed to find his chequebook pretty quickly and settle the bill. DO NOT STAND FOR PEOPLE RIPPING YOU OFF!! if you wouldn't do it to them why the hell should they be able to do it to you?

 

[podrikk007]

i have asked her to explain fully and all i get is
''im just not happy''
WILL YOU TELL ME WHY
''like i say im just not happy, i dont think it was right''
WHAT WASNT RIGHT ABOUT IT?
''all of it, it just wasnt right''

grrrrrrr!!!! stupid old ****. she is one of them that just repeats herself telling me nothing of any use at all

 

[elgunvo]

i quoted £800,
the cost to me was £608
i got £600 cash and worked 5 days labour
she refuses to pay me for labour,
so i have done the job free to her, but which cost me £8.
it was a verbal quote, for the whole job.
as i am new to self employment, i dont have any sort of contracts or agreements etc. mainly because i dont know how to write one, or if it has to get wrote for me, i cant afford the costs just yet!

Hi, I have been reading this thread and would just like to comment on the above.

I made this same mistake of having a verbal contract when I started out and i lost 3 months worth of income because of it, however i understand that you would have to get a professional to write it and may not have the funds available yet to pay.

In this instance I would suggest in future you charge a 20% deposit and then split the rest between the jobs for example "after driveway complete £250", "after lock fitted £80" that way if they back out you should receive at least enough to cover your costs, if not more.

Also, write up a quote and a document saying "The client agrees to pay the quote above in the installments stated" etc... something simple and make them sign, A signature is much better than a verbal contract, especially when you take it to small claims court. Also if customers contact you via email keep a copy of the email, this helps.

I am not in this business but im sure this will help you too as it did me to begin with.

 

[GRDCredit]

Sorry but for the sake of £200 learn the lesson, move on and save yourself a lot of grief

 

[podrikk007]

thats a lot of money to someone in my position!!

 

[elgunvo]

yeah i know, but im only used to doing the work, not pricing correctly for it, as i say, its a newbie mistake, it is a lesson learned, but i will not let it drop!!!

Pricing Help

Do a bit of research into the ball-park figure most people charge for doing it but i find the below works for me.

First of all work out how much you can live on a year and divide it by the amount of billable hours you will work

For example (not a real calculation but gives you an idea)

I need £36,000 per year
Expenses = £12,000 per year
I can work 48 hours a week * 52 = 2,496 billable hours per year
Hourly rate = £20

* note this dosent include desired holiday etc...

Prices of materials + Hours [at] hourly rate

I hope this helps.

 

[MASSEY]

thats a lot of money to someone in my position!!

Asking for money upfront is something we do not do any way,

I typed up two quotes the other day for bathrooms for two elderly couples both combined 13k which is a competitve price we ask for 50% halfway through and 50% on completion,

On the quotes i listed on a company letterhead the things we were gong to do in a list, who was supplying the materials eg, we will fit the tiles you supply, we will fit a bath sink we supply, so its all clear and 100% correct,

as soon as they accept, we will then place the same quote onto a contract which states payment installment and times for payment below which they sign and have a photo copy of,

And then there is no confusion, and if payment suddenly becomes an issue, we are protected,

You need to get terms and conditions in place also for things like if the customer has an issue with you or any body working for you that you will replace that person with some one of equal ability, also time delays caused by the customer they need to understand there will be charges for this as you run a tight schedule,

You can not operate on a verbal agreement your not protected.

But in your current case, i think you have to kiss the 200 goodbye ,

 

[Bri]

The very fact that the drive was pulled up by others indicates theres was a problem.Youre £8.00 down on the whole affair. As above write to her asking to reply her concerns and you offer how you can redress the situation, if its irretrevable say thanks and walk away, you have been paid for some works.

 

[podrikk007]

it was pulled up by them without issues or problems reported to me. i have been paid for materials only

 

[maxine]

I also think you will need to kiss goodbye to the £200 as otherwise it will cost you more than that to take through the courts when you know she is going to dispute it.

I know thats not fair but this is why people have terms and conditions to safeguard against these sorts of people. As it is she is refusing to pay as not happy with it and there isnt much you can do unfortunately without having some sort of process in writing to deal with disputed work. It's also there for her protection too if you really had done a bad job or caused damage etc.

A cheap and cheerful way of at least providing a written quote is to buy a carbon paper quote pad and just write on there the description of the work to be done and give a total amount.

It won't give you any real protection if someone is not happy with the quality of the work but it will give you some protection by providing a written quote in case the price is disputed later.

 

[Bri]

it was pulled up by them without issues or problems reported to me. i have been paid for materials only

..they werent reported to you, that does not assume that there isnt a problem. You still have to give the opportunity to reply by writing to her and asking for reasons, hopefully you have other work to get on with concentrate on that.

 

[YoungMoneyChina]

Sorry to hear about this mate, this kind of thing is not what you need if things are tight for you at the moment.

Im sorry to say it though but that money is as good as gone. If she has gone to the trouble of pulling up all the slabs then there must have been an issue in her mind or she would have left them there and still not paid you.

Go back to the site, remove the slabs as you may be able to use them on another job? If she didnt like the drive then she wont object to you taking them. As for the rest - well just leave it, its not worth the headache for £200. Anoying i know but welcome to being self employed

All the best for future transactions, if you need a contract of works to use, search on google, you will find some free ones to download that you can modify to suit you.

 

[Beachcomber]

I'm in the same business as you and have had a few chancers who have tried it on.

First things first - give up any thoughts of ripping up the decking / taking revenge - this will land you in a whole heap of the brown stuff and you won't have a leg to stand on legally if you pursue the outstanding balance.

The problem here is that it is not a straight forward matter of a customer refusing to pay for a completed job - the whole job has not been done so it could be argued that the whole balance is not payable. If the whole job had been done things would be a little more straightforward.

Where are the slabs now? Can you get them back and return them to the supplier to recoup costs? If not, use them for another job?

Whatever you do, you need to think about how your actions will reflect upon you and your reputation. Do you want to be known as the nutjob handyman who took a chainsaw to some ladies decking?

Personally I'd pursue it but not hold out alot of hope. Send an invoice via recorded delivery. Follow this up 14 days later with a reminder and again follow this up with a 'notice of intent' letter stating you intend to instigate court proceedings unless the invoice is settled within 7 days ( I have a template if you need the wording)
If there is wtill no payment file a claim through the small claims court - it only costs £25 online.

All late payers I have ever had have paid up quick upon receipt of court papers.

If there is still no response you can then decide if you wish to take it through the courts - you can cease the proceedings at any time so don't be put off by worried of huge legal fees etc.

At the end of the day it's a proper pain in the ar*e and you just don't need the hassle but you also don;t want to get a reputation for being someone who can be stiffed.

Hope it works out ok.

 

[mcgovern]

Sounds like the women is a good grafter, pulling all them slabs up, you might want to consider her as a labourer. Jokes aside,sounds like to me someone has put her off using you, the under quote may have caused concern

 

[Beachcomber]

Sounds like the women is a good grafter, pulling all them slabs up, you might want to consider her as a labourer. Jokes aside,sounds like to me someone has put her off using you, the under quote may have caused concern

I still think she's pulling a fast one - if she was concerned about the under quote these fears would have been dealt with when the decking was done - which she said she was very happy with.

I reckon she's got the deck done - got the heavy work with the groundwork done for the slabs and will get her other half / friend to lay the slabs while shafting the tradesman.

 

[James1980]

I'm not condoning it and I'm not condemning it, but this is relevant:

Builder demolishes own £15,000 handiwork after customer fails to pay bill