Crazy to consider a bookshop?

[jemster]

Hello All,
My partner and I are considering opening and running an independent, highstreet bookshop. We are aware of the very many reasons why NOT to, bearing in mind the current climate but we believe that though large numbers of bookshops are closing there will always be a market for well-run, enterprising and creative book sellers, allbeit a small amount of them.

However, we would value your opinions and experience regarding this...are we crazy or do we at least have a fighting chance?

many thanks

 

[vvaannmmaann]

Maybe it depends on where you are planning to have the shop?

 

[jemster]

Hi vvaannmmaann,

That's what were researching at the moment. Good location and the right premises is key and it's not easy to come by. We also want to have a section in the shop to sell coffee and cakes which further complicates matters but we believe that this is a necessary facility to have.

If you have any tips on how to research an area properly to assess suitablility we would be very grateful.

We really are at the start of incubation stage regarding the project but I remembered coming to this forum a while back and I felt it would be a great place to come for feedback and clarification etc.

 

[MoonlightEnts]

My local library was once just a place people would walk by without a second glance! They then had a refurb with a cafe added which serves hot and cold drinks, sandwiches and jacket potatoes. they also offer free wifi!

Since the refurb and the additional amenities - You can never get a seat! They also have an additional room they use for meetings and small conferences which is always booked out as rather charging a day delegate rate of £25-£45 (like alot of the hotels etc) they allow it to be used for free! They take a deposit of £150 and if the client meets this as a minimum spend, they return the deposit. If not - they retain the deposit also.

I know its not a bookshop as such, however im sure you can implement some of the things they have done to make your venture a success

 

[DotNetWebs]

I love real book shops but I have to say I am spending MUCH less money on physical books now.

The majority of my books nowadays are delivered instantly via electronic means using Kindle or other electronic publishers like O'Reilly

And most my physical books are delivered the next day free via Amazon prime.

As much as I like browsing real books I am finding that the 'electronic serendipity' built into Amazon and O'Reilly algorithms is more than an adequate replacement.

If the supermarkets are selling the blockbusters at a loss and the likes of Amazon and O'Reilly can catalogue, supply and deliver specialist books in a way that an independent can't possibly match, where are you going to make your money from?

Regards

Dotty

 

[tony84]

I personally think your mad.....
However, there is a book shop in my local village. Ive never been in but its been open for years.
I think they do coffee mornings and childrens book readings etc. They also have a website.

They seem to work hard at it and there is always things going on and its involved in a lot of charities etc so it gets plenty of publicitiy.

 

[Banned]

Bookshops can and do work. You have advantages of regular repeat customers, no buying decision mistakes that sap your cashflow and non date sensitive stock.

Add to it regular signings and events and you stand a pretty good chance of success.

Like all retail at the moment though it won't be an easy ride.

 

[JDot]

Truth is, the majority of book customers are the older generation.
This is where a potential problem could lie.
The new generation are growing up into an electronic world, where everything from newspapers to full written
books can be purchased from electronic devices instantly.

Yes there is and always will be a market for people that want hardback copies etc, but this market is dying.

Just my opinion

 

[pen2670]

I know someone who ran a very successful bookshop with a great reputation. Sadly he panicked when the supermarkets first started selling books and got out of the bookshop and into another enterprise, which failed.

Most people locally still remember his shop with fondness and he regrets his decision to close it during it's prime.

One piece of advice he had from his Accountant prior to starting was not to expect to make money to start with and he say's it's the best advice he had prior to starting up as otherwise he would have given up before it's reputation built and it became profitable.

Good Luck!

 

I think the bookshops that fail are the ones that are run of the mill .. They plonk a load of books on the shelves and hope they will sell...

The bookshops that work create a reason to go there, targetting particular groups, by specialising, by being a destination (the coffee & cake is always great) and staffed with really enthusiastic knowledgable people who are really keen to help you out, by making it really easy to order something not in store while you are there, by doing something a bit different .. rare & collectable books, second hand books, book groups, readings, signings, story time for kids..

Even if I don't take advantage of all those things in a bookshop it makes me feel very well disposed towards those shops that do.. because they put their customers front & centre..

I do think you might be a bit crazy .. I reckon these days it's as much about why you want to do it. If you want to be a millionaire you'll probably have to think again. If you want to run a bookshop, fantastic! lol

 

[DotNetWebs]

Truth is, the majority of book customers are the older generation.
This is where a potential problem could lie.
The new generation are growing up into an electronic world, where everything from newspapers to full written
books can be purchased from electronic devices instantly.

Yes there is and always will be a market for people that want hardback copies etc, but this market is dying.

Just my opinion

Yes and IMO it's dying much quicker than many people realise.

It's true what you say about the difference in Generations but many older people are flocking to Kindle.

If you think about it a Kindle is the perfect device for the elderly, they can browse catalogues and instantly download books from the armchairs for zero delivery cost, they don't even have to pay for the Internet connection.

Kindle also offer a 'try before you buy' model as you can normally read the first chapter or two before committing to purchase.

And don't forget that 1000's of books are available for free. You don't need to purchase a Penguin Classic of Wuthering Heights any more - you can simply download it for free.

Electronic readers have great built-in accessibility aids such as font magnification and screen readers.

The Kindle is a cheap and simple game-changing device IMO.

Regards

Dotty

 

At the risk of sounding like an old fart (I'm only thirty-mumble, honest) .. I do like handling real books. I like owning books and I think there is a hard core that will always feel that way.

I'm all for Kindle and e-books for those who want them but if the market for real books dies I for one will be extremely upset.

I do wonder though, if the possibility exists in the future that the rise of e-books will reach a point where the big book sellers won't be able to sustain their presence on the high stret and the smaller but significant physical book market may cascade back down to revitalise the independents... It's just a thought....

 

[DotNetWebs]

...I do wonder though, if the possibility exists in the future that the rise of e-books will reach a point where the big book sellers won't be able to sustain their presence on the high stret and the smaller but significant physical book market may cascade back down to revitalise the independents... It's just a thought....

I agree. This was a sad event for me:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...nnica-the-end-of-its--shelf-life-7570384.html

Regards

Dotty

 

[jemster]

hi dot & dotty

Your both right in many ways but i think that kindle is the elephant in the room, something that we can not be ignored but has it not just given access to those who would not have visited bookshops in the first place.

Our model will be based on an interactive basis and not just a "covenience store" approach. It will be where people can go to meet like minded people. The kindle is a fabulous product (heck even I have one) but I still buy books you just have to give someone a reason to get out of the house.
If we get the right location the right building and the right people involved with a community outlook surely we have a chance. if we do get this off the ground you are more than welcome to come along and enjoy the experience.

 

[vvaannmmaann]

A few for sale here;
http://www.businessesforsale.com/search/Book-Shops-for-sale-in-the-UK

 

[Deleted member 59730]

However, we would value your opinions and experience regarding this...are we crazy or do we at least have a fighting chance?

many thanks

I supply many of the bookshops in my region. Some have failed on me. Nearly always they are run by idiots. The successful bookshops are run by people who are not too proud to stock a wide range of books to suit all tastes and ages.

Rather than watching what Kindle are doing I would watch Ted Smart at The Book People. He sells more books than WHS to a range of people who never go into a book shop.

What area are you looking at?

 

[matt seymour]

I wouldn't say you are crazy to consider opening a book shop, but it is certainly a risk.

One thing I have noticed is that the few book shops that are still hanging on are those that are in small towns or villages rather than in large shopping centres, but it has to be said that they have been there for a very long time. I wouldn't like to say how well a new book shop would fair even in those locations.

To make it work you'd have to get the location absolutely spot on and stock new and used books and maybe hold coffee mornings etc like others have suggested. You could possibly stock other items that are loosely related to books as well.

Whatever you do, make sure you do your homework. I think there will always be a place for bookshops, but there is no doubt that it's risky to open one.

 

[ArabianNights]

I have only just turned 30 years old and I am such an old fashioned person - I do not love anything more then going to a bookstore (a nice big one) and just sitting in the cafe and browsing the books. I LOVE to hold books in my hand and I HATE the idea of this phasing out, with technology and all. Technology is killing off a beautiful past time

Although I do not own kindle and the like and I still cannot get my self to read a book online - the reality is that things are headed this way Borders bookstore recently had to close its worldwide chain, because it just wasnt selling and no one buys. Yes, the bookshops are always packed... but people spend more money on coffee, then they do on the books that they are browsing. If you can make money, somehow, through having a bookstore, whilst not selling much stock, but also serving nice coffee and nice snacks etc... even light meals, then you might do well. You need to think and look for 'offsprings' from a bookstore, which can earn you money... cafe is one obvious example, maybe you can host book related events and charge for them etc.

 

[DotNetWebs]

...I for one cannot stand ereaders/kindles, also I know very few that do as I think they are just the new must have thing...

You might not know many at the moment but ebook sales have surpassed physical book sales at Amazon:

Regards

Dotty

 

[marioncritard]

Hello All,
My partner and I are considering opening and running an independent, highstreet bookshop. We are aware of the very many reasons why NOT to, bearing in mind the current climate but we believe that though large numbers of bookshops are closing there will always be a market for well-run, enterprising and creative book sellers, allbeit a small amount of them.

However, we would value your opinions and experience regarding this...are we crazy or do we at least have a fighting chance?

many thanks

If you do it right, it's a great idea.

 

[kulture]

It takes a LOT of money to open a bookshop. Even a specialist book shop with a limited range. The stock holding alone could easily reach £100,000. Add to this the unit has to be in a good location with good footfall, it has to be a reasonably large unit, and if you want a coffee shop inside it too, then it has to be larger still and have toilets. Thus a high rent and rates.

Further, more than many other types of retail, a bookshop needs a stock control system, and some kind of EPOS. This can easily add £10,000 to start up costs.

On top of all this is staff costs. A bookshop, with a coffee shop, will need staff. More than just the two of you.

Bookshops are being hammered in two directions. Supermarkets who sell the top 10-20 titles at less than your cost, and Kindle.

The supermarkets thus get the new titles, the popular titles. What used to be the most profitable part of a bookshop. Kindle gets the people who want a book NOW (for me it is the 2nd,3rd etc of a series that I have just finished reading the 1st). This dents the repeat customer and the ordering service.

I once thought print on demand would be a factor, but this has been killed by the kindle.

So I would say that a bookshop is a brave venture. It could be made right, but it could so easily loose you loads of money and not work. It would be very very hard work.

Location is thus VITAL. I suspect that what you need is a central location in a rich town. Not a city. A place that has traditional values and people with money who read.

Alternatively a bookshop in a seaside town.

Good luck, but think hard about it. If you do decide to go ahead, and get premises etc, then remember your first book order will be enormous. Negotiate extra discount because of this, go direct to the publishers, ask for free copies, ask for sale or return, ask for the earth. You will be in a powerful position.

 

[Esk247]

Echo of what Kulture has said, take a gander at University towns if you have any within driving distance. York, Bath, Cambridge etc. All good places for your romantic style Cafe/Library, read while you relax.

You've got to have a strong brand in a very good location to succeed with this kind of idea. It's not impossible though, but you cannot do it on a shoe string!

 

[davek17]

I htnk if done right then this could be a great idea. I t has to be 100% right though.

I would focus on a book "Experience" though, it has to be different from anything else we've seen. Someone on here mentioned the refurb at their library and this is the line of thinking you need.

Get everything that associates a good read in one place...Coffee, sofa's, comfy atmosphere etc. Make it a place to meet, to discuss and to share in person.

I'm the first person to kill anyone who touches my beloved Kindle! But....and this is a very big but.... Kindle is awful at sharing or lending books. It's crazy that it flies in the face of everything technology should really stand for. You can get a license to lend and sell kindle books too you know and you can just make your place a physical place to go for this. Kind of like these little EBay walk in shops that are springing up everywhere.

I think you have to think niche, take some pointers form who's doing well in the music industry and go for it. If done right it could be great!

DaveK

 

[DotNetWebs]

...University towns...

As Much as I love my Kindle this is still one of my favourite places on earth

I dread to think how much stock value they hold and that's just one floor!

Regards

Dotty

 

[DotNetWebs]

...Get everything that associates a good read in one place...Coffee, sofa's, comfy atmosphere etc. Make it a place to meet, to discuss and to share in person...

While I tend to agree I think you will find a lot of people will treat the place like a library or a place they can 'try before they buy' (on Amazon for a fraction of the cost).

I used to spend a lot of time in Borders in Brighton which had this model. Borders had a policy of openly encouraging people to take book into the coffee shop.

The coffee shop was a Starbucks franchise so much of the profit would have been syphoned-off. In the corner were large piles of books waiting to be returned to the shelves and it was not unusual to see students with 5 or more books on their (coffee-stained) tables.

I would guess you would end up with a lot of unsellable stock with this model.

Regards

Dotty

 

[Banned]

Where is that dotty?

I'd take a punt on Blackwells in Oxford

 

[DotNetWebs]

Where is that dotty?

It's the Norrington Room at Blackwells in Oxford:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwell_UK

Blackwells has many specialist bookshops all over Oxford but this is the biggest.

Regards

Dotty

 

[Banned]

ask for sale or return, ask for the earth. You will be in a powerful position.

All books are sale or return, you can't go wrong stock wise - be nice if we could all do that!

I wouldn't worry about the supermarkets as they only generally stock the top 10 (or so). A good book shop will know what it number 11. Second hand and children's books also don't compete with the internet to a great degree.

 

[DotNetWebs]

Just read an interesting article about Blackwells linked from that Wiki page:

Blackwell Group halves losses within a year

They 'only' lost £5.6m last year and seem to be heading in the right direction.

Regards

Dotty

 

[DBMark]

This is something I am looking into - but it's a specialised store in a tourist area. Hopefully a niche that can make me money, but not worth the while for Amazon (or individual channel) to bother with.

I agree that other things need to be sold apart from books - I notice the coffee and cakes mentioned above - but there are other goods that may appeal to the book-loving crowd eg: fridge magnets, t-shirts, posters, postcards, stationery etc.
For examples of products that may work, this site may be worth perusing:
http://www.theliterarygiftcompany.com/

I also think you have to build up a social network presence, and encourage a small movement of "followers" who can help keep the small bookshop world alive.

 

[fairdealworld]

I think it could work if you can devise a really sound model rather than 'just another bookshop' but I in making this model you have to think again about Kindle (+ Nook etc) and its implications.

Don't rely on 'older' people sticking with paper books. Kindle has made such a huge impact because it is a very simple device and I think you'll find where the elderly are concerned - including the 'elderly' who are technophobes - that Kindle provides a very simple way into the digital world. It is given them as a gift or purchased in hope of not having to carry books on holiday, it is tried and discovered to be very easy to use. Then the new owner realises it is light for arthritic hands to hold and that the print size can be adjusted to suit their eyesight. Having mastered the Kindle Mr or Mrs "I wouldn't even know how to turn a computer on" decides that maybe they could cope with a simple smartphone and once they've got on top of that they start to think about those interesting looking tablets. This is an entirely different route to the old 'I've got a computer and my daughter-in-law set it up for me but the email's gone wrong and I'll have to wait until she comes round to sort it out' and I think it is a route which is going to greatly increase take up of digital devices by older people and the elderly.

I am 'older' though not 'elderly', not that I've ever been a technophobe, but I do have arthritis and was beginning to find it a struggle to hold books especially after a busy day in my shop. The Kindle is a great solution to this problem and while deeply regretting the demise of bookshops I now only read books on the Kindle Paperwhite.

I assume that eventually 'real' books will become a status symbol probably for younger and better off folk. In the meantime the good thing about the current squeeze on book shops is that it has made those remaining up their game. Bookshops often looked dull (except to the book fanatic) and were often dusty both inside and out. The way books were classified and shelved might be relevant in a university library but wasn't the best way to get the casual browser to pull out their debit card.

I've twice been into bookshops in the last couple of months (in fact I bought the Paperwhite on impulse in one of them ruthlessly abandoning my 'old' keyboard Kindle to a drawer as back up machine). In the first bookshop I bought not only the Kindle but two books as gifts for friends who still like the feel of paper, both books were strategically placed to 'jump out at' the browser I certainly wasn't in there looking for gifts. While paying for my purchases a little 'bookmark' also jumped out at me, an electronic dictionary device thin enough to use as a bookmark and that got purchased too for a friend who likes that sort of thing. I've since signed up to the shop's blog and I noticed they run a book club, no time for that at present but it would tempt me if I ever took it into my head to retire.

On the second occasion, different bookshop in a different town, I wasn't even intending to go into the bookshop but into the small department store next to it. Once inside I discovered that you could move freely between the store and the bookshop by an internal doorway. Obviously separate businesses - as you could only pay for book shop stock in the book shop and vice versa - who'd come to some sort of mutually beneficial arrangement. So easy to drift through into the book shop where I did in fact buy a couple of bits and pieces. The book shop was relying on the department store's cafe and there was nowhere to sit down in the book shop which is a downer from my point of view for any serious browsing, but an interesting concept neverthless.