Company name in <title> tag - yes or no?

[debbidoo]

Hi there, SEO experts

How important is it to use the company name in the <title> tag of a web page?

Advice seems to be that titles shouldn't be much longer than 60 characters (presumably that includes spaces?) - so let's say the company name is 34 characters including spaces, that doesn't leave a lot of room for keywords, does it?

If the company name already appears in the domain, in the content, in link titles (navigation links), sometimes in H1s and other parts of the page (footer, for example) - would SEOs recommend leaving out the company name in the <title> tag and using those 34 characters for keywords instead? Bearing in mind, if the company name was going to be used, it would be at the end of the title, not the beginning

The website in question is moving to a new domain, but GA stats for March-Dec 2009 on the current domain show that searches on variations of the company name accounted for about 25% of visits where 'search' was the visitor source (average total visits per month is about 2,000, half of which are via search engines - so >10% of ALL visits to the site result from searches for the company name or variations thereof). The company name also contains a couple of relevant keywords which seem to get a decent number of searches (according to Google's external keyword tool).

So - any ideas? Thanks

Debs

 

[fisicx]

A search for your company name should have your website at #1 even if the name isn't in your page title. If it isn't then you need to add it to the page content and you soon will be.

So to answer your question - no you don't. Althought you can put is on the 'admin' pages (about us, contact, T&C, privacy etc).

PS - don't regard myself as an expert. An ex is a has been and a spurt is a drip under pressure.

 

[debbidoo]

Cheers Fisicx You may not consider yourself an 'expert' but you usually manage to give excellent SEO advice so I value your input

 

[Andy Walpole]

If it's any help debbidoo here is the current SEOmoz recommendation regarding this: http://www.seomoz.org/knowledge/title-tag

 

[debbidoo]

If it's any help debbidoo here is the current SEOmoz recommendation regarding this: http://www.seomoz.org/knowledge/title-tag

Thanks Andy, that's really useful

 

If your trying to get traffic with your brand name then end of title.

If not then stick company name in your description tag.

Earl

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

I'd say leave it out, but it depends on your business name. If the name itself contains valuable keywords that you want to target, then it's worth leaving it in.

Firstly, the title tags space is limited as you have mentioned. There are far more useful keywords to put in.

Secondly, there will be next to no competition for your actual business name as it's unique to you. So, a few natural mentions of it on your webpages (and the keyword in the domain itself) should be more than enough to secure the number one spot. This then leaves you with an empty title tag ready for the most relevant keyword(s).

 

[David198]

If you don't put your Company name in title tag then chances are that some other website will showup for your company name's search, may be a page from squidoo or such other sites if you have a page there.

I would recommend keeping company name in the last in title tag.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

If you don't put your Company name in title tag then chances are that some other website will showup for your company name's search, may be a page from squidoo or such other sites if you have a page there.

I would recommend keeping company name in the last in title tag.

Why? If the business name is in the domain, and the site has various mentions of the business name, then it's very unlikely that a Squidoo profile will beat it to take the top spot.

Unless the SERPS for your business name are competitive, then it's a waste of space putting it in. This is usually the case for most small businesses.

 

[fisicx]

If a squidoo page beats you for the company name then you have some serious problems with your website.

 

[debbidoo]

Secondly, there will be next to no competition for your actual business name as it's unique to you. So, a few natural mentions of it on your webpages (and the keyword in the domain itself) should be more than enough to secure the number one spot. This then leaves you with an empty title tag ready for the most relevant keyword(s).

This is where it gets complicated

Without giving too much away about the company in question, here's the scenario but with company details, line of business etc changed.

The business in question has been trading for about 15 years under its current name. Let's say the business is called "Camber Sands Snooker Club and Darts Centre" - in essence, it's a pub - though for legal/tax reasons it can't call itself a 'pub'. Then, about 7 years ago, in very close physical proximity to the business, another pub started up, calling itself "Hospitality Camber Sands" and advertising itself as a pub.

The two companies spend several years arguing about, ooooh let's just say 'stuff' - and then the game starts to get dirty. At the end of last year, the rival business changes its name to "Camber Sands Pub" and puts out press releases saying that in 2010 it is going to develop two new areas to the business - a "snooker club" and a "darts centre" - so clearly they are paving the way to be able to optimise for the phrase "camber sands snooker club and darts centre", and thus, the original business needs to protect these keywords because they are part of the company name (remember the two businesses are located in Camber Sands, so the location is an important keyword, as are the snooker/darts bits).

With me so far?

What complicates matters further is that the first business' original website (let's say it's called camberdartscentre.com) is now going to be ditched, and redirected to the new website, which is at their new domain - cambersnookerclub.com. The company has registered this new domain (with the .net and .org) to protect their IP and brand - both the .org and .net will also redirect to the .com.

So, I'm sure this scenario opens up all sorts of cans of SEO worms

Given this situation, I'm thinking that including the brand name - even though it's (in real life) 34 characters long, including spaces - is probably important.

Everyone agree? Or not?

Obviously I'm optimising all the copy, h1s, titles, descriptions (and including meta keywords at the client's request, as my understanding is that the major search engines ignore them but smaller SEs might still look at them) - keywords in anchor text, keywords in link titles, keywords in ALT tags, etc etc.

So the purpose of this site is going to be not only to bring in NEW traffic for search phrases like (following the pretend scenario above) 'sports in camber sands', 'pubs in camber sands' (even though they daren't DESCRIBE themselves as a pub, they still want to rank for the keyword 'pub' - just to complicate things further!), 'snooker in camber sands', 'darts in camber sands' and so on... but also to rank much higher than their scumbag competitors for these keywords, AND protect their brand.

Just remember - I never said this would be straightforward

So, what does everyone think, now that the situation is (hopefully!) clearer?

 

[debbidoo]

Just to add: keyword research on Google's external tool shows that the rival company's OLD name - let's say it's 'Hospitality Camber Sands' as in the example above - had in excess of 7,000 searches last month (globally, I mean - this isn't actually a UK-based company we're talking about).

Presumably given this, it would be advisable to slip the word 'hospitality' into the client's copy here and there, since 'Hospitality Camber Sands' has changed its name to 'Camber Sands Pub'?

 

[fisicx]

I think vou've answered you own question. The company name isn't important, what's important is the thing people look for. It's therefore going to be a straight fight as to who get's top spot for 'snooker clubs in camber sands'. I'm assuming that the location is a little larger than camber sands which (as I recall) isn't big enopugh for two pubs.

If somebody does search for 'camber snooker club' the business name isn't unique enough to stop the local pool hall having a go as well. In fact thinking about it, it's a pretty pants business name since it excludes all the other things on offer.

 

[debbidoo]

Like I said Graham, it's complicated (isn't it always?!)

I wish I could explain more of the details, but I can't do that of course. Let's just say though that the location is rather more exotic than camber sands, and probably not much bigger

 

[fisicx]

The problem is not the company name, it's the location.

Because both companies are touting for location + activity there is always going to be a fight. On the other have, if the old company was called 'jangles' then people would search for the business name becasue of referrals and marketing. By calling themselves 'camber snooker club' they have made it more difficult for themselves especially as the rival has a similar name.

There is no easy solution. It could turn you to be something as simple as the age of the domain, a bit of internal linking, a sub-heading or alt text that puts one or the other on top. Jusging by your descriptions it's not going to be a hugely competitive set of keywords so it might well an easy battle to win if the competitors mess up thier website.

Thought, how old is the old website? It may be that moving to a new domain could work against you.

 

[RoyaleGraphics]

I was told that you should put your main keywords first. Company name is not necessary, but if you do want to include it then use it near the end.

 

[debbidoo]

Thought, how old is the old website? It may be that moving to a new domain could work against you.

Pretty old, a good few years anyway. That's something I'd thought about too.

Actually, the real phrases they're competing for are hugely competitive in the country the businesses operate in, although in the specific PART of the country there are perhaps 3 or 4 businesses competing.

The client's business has been around longer than most of them though, and has always traded with the same name (well, for at least 15 years anyway).

 

[fisicx]

Pretty old, a good few years anyway. That's something I'd thought about too.

The client's business has been around longer than most of them though, and has always traded with the same name (well, for at least 15 years anyway).

Then don't under any circumstances change it!!!

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

So, I'm sure this scenario opens up all sorts of cans of SEO worms

Given this situation, I'm thinking that including the brand name - even though it's (in real life) 34 characters long, including spaces - is probably important.

Everyone agree? Or not?

Obviously I'm optimising all the copy, h1s, titles, descriptions (and including meta keywords at the client's request, as my understanding is that the major search engines ignore them but smaller SEs might still look at them) - keywords in anchor text, keywords in link titles, keywords in ALT tags, etc etc.

So the purpose of this site is going to be not only to bring in NEW traffic for search phrases like (following the pretend scenario above) 'sports in camber sands', 'pubs in camber sands' (even though they daren't DESCRIBE themselves as a pub, they still want to rank for the keyword 'pub' - just to complicate things further!), 'snooker in camber sands', 'darts in camber sands' and so on... but also to rank much higher than their scumbag competitors for these keywords, AND protect their brand.

Just remember - I never said this would be straightforward

So, what does everyone think, now that the situation is (hopefully!) clearer?

Well if that's the case then the business name seems to have very relevant keywords (such as the location, the type of business etc), so it's worth putting it in for that reason. Then the benefit of targeting the brand name as well is a bonus.

So in this situation, I'd put the brand name in the title.

As Graham says though, it all comes down to what the prospects will search for.

 

[debbidoo]

Then don't under any circumstances change it!!!

I don't quite understand why they WANT to change it, to be honest. Surely it would make much more sense to redirect all the new domains into the old domain, not vice versa. I'll have another word with them and see if I can talk them round.

 

[Ali-v-8]

Just to complicate things, you could use this description and get picked up by google for what you wanted

"Hospitality in camber sands Open to Public to play darts or snooker at our club house "