Clocking in & out times

[Przemo(c)]

Hello All,

I've got another issue here... Could anybody help my with this, please...
My employer have introduced new clocking in & out rules recently. Nobody is allowed to clock in earlier then 2 minutes before starting time, and nobody is allowed to clock out later then 2 mins after finishing time. People had been clocking in earlier for years and nobody have ever claimed any overtime hours/minutes. 2 minutes before/after work is quite narrow time window. And what about if you need to stay longer to finish your work? Probably if you stay 15 minutes or more you could claim overtime pay, but what about 3-4-5 minutes longer? Is it legally supported in some way, or is it just employer's invention? For me it's ridiculous. I fully understand rules which tell you not to clock in later and not to clock out earlier then starting/finishing hours, because it's obvious. But narrowing it to some minutes...
Thank you for answers in advance.

 

[Rhodium]

I am an USDAW union representative, and though this may not concern your sector of employment, clocking in and out shouldn't be too much of an area problem. As far as i'm aware the clocking in cards are just to contrast against your hours by your manager or whoever deals with your wages to make sure you was in on that day and doing the hours you was supposed to do, (depending on how many colleagues you have depends on how neccessary this is) , and this information once it has been checked is put onto a host system that is then sent off weekly. . .

I may be wrong, but that's how it works for anyone working in the retail sector.

 

[ORDERED WEB]

Hello All,

I've got another issue here... Could anybody help my with this, please...
My employer have introduced new clocking in & out rules recently. Nobody is allowed to clock in earlier then 2 minutes before starting time, and nobody is allowed to clock out later then 2 mins after finishing time. People had been clocking in earlier for years and nobody have ever claimed any overtime hours/minutes. 2 minutes before/after work is quite narrow time window. And what about if you need to stay longer to finish your work? Probably if you stay 15 minutes or more you could claim overtime pay, but what about 3-4-5 minutes longer? Is it legally supported in some way, or is it just employer's invention? For me it's ridiculous. I fully understand rules which tell you not to clock in later and not to clock out earlier then starting/finishing hours, because it's obvious. But narrowing it to some minutes...
Thank you for answers in advance.

Ridiculous- turning up on time? It only seems rediculios to anyone who has not had to do any workforce planning or dealt with the fall out of all staff clipping 10 mins off of all the edges in a working day

The 15 min thing is very valid, the flip side of this is that if you turn up 2 mins late, you may as well wait another 12.5 before clocking in and commencing work... You are better off turning up on time and leaving on time. The clocking in machine is a two edged sword, from the employee point of view it is a pain at the beginning of the day, and the gate keeper at the other end

 

[profitxchange]

I don't have a problem with your clocking in/out. the issue of overtime clocking in/out early or late should not be an issue either. I would not pay any overtime unless it was sanctioned beforehand so coming in 30mins early or 30 mins late is irrelevant. your payroll dept are just being lazy. They should just pay your standard hours unless OT has been sanctioned

 

[Przemo(c)]

Ridiculous- turning up on time? It only seems rediculios to anyone who has not had to do any workforce planning or dealt with the fall out of all staff clipping 10 mins off of all the edges in a working day

Yes - for me it is very ridiculous. I'm not talking here about justifying of being late to work, that is not the case here because I am always 10 - 12 minutes earlier. And we are not talking here about clipping smth. off. We are talking about these particular 2 minutes. If management Introduced this 2 mins interval why it is not 2 minutes and 15 seconds, or maybe 2.13?? Please understand - when you have to get to your locker, change your clothes, then go back to clocking machine it's difficult to make it within two minutes, especially when we are NOT allowed to hang around the clock before clocking out time (CCTV monitoring clocking machine). What is that supposed to be, some kind of a race or what...?
When you at work on time, and you are not clocking out early, what makes the difference if I clock in 5 to, or I clock out 4 past???
I appreciate your opinions very much and thank you for your answers, but anyone know some legal regulations concerning the above? Thanks a lot.

 

[ORDERED WEB]

Yes - for me it is very ridiculous. I'm not talking here about justifying of being late to work, that is not the case here because I am always 10 - 12 minutes earlier. And we are not talking here about clipping smth. off. We are talking about these particular 2 minutes. If management Introduced this 2 mins interval why it is not 2 minutes and 15 seconds, or maybe 2.13?? Please understand - when you have to get to your locker, change your clothes, then go back to clocking machine it's difficult to make it within two minutes, especially when we are NOT allowed to hang around the clock before clocking out time (CCTV monitoring clocking machine). What is that supposed to be, some kind of a race or what...?
When you at work on time, and you are not clocking out early, what makes the difference if I clock in 5 to, or I clock out 4 past???
I appreciate your opinions very much and thank you for your answers, but anyone know some legal regulations concerning the above? Thanks a lot.

Easy... arive early, and sit in the car and chill for a few miniutes

Pop the employer hat on for a second... why are they doing this??

Reasons are usually
1. people taking the micky
2. people claiming overtime for time they didnt do *
3. where the environment requires X amount of staf at Y time in the day to make the business operate proplerly, and some form of workforce / resource planning is needed ***
4. employees/line managers are poor at filling in time sheets
5. they need a device/ system to quickly act as a fire register **
6. an Audit trail is required to monitor efficencies in the whole payroll / staff hours system

The 15 miniutes thing is legally allowed, and is the smallest divisor of time used in calculating how many hours one has worked

Im not saying you are swinging the lead, Im just saying the clock indicates a management attitude, which has been implemented for a reason.

Understanding the reason is the place to begin

* or turning up early, having a chat for 5 mins, leaving late after having a chat for 10 mins and claiming they are working for a extra 15 mins a day etc. etc.
** there may be a leagal limit to the amount of people on the premisis. It may be at shift changes, they are hitting this limit, hence the 2 min thing
*** sounds like your most likley answer - as clearly getting people in and out on time swiftly sees to be the thing they are making a noise about
___

You do need to understand.. We are all pretty much business owners here, and many of us are employers. You will only get an employers point of view. One can be as iritated about working hours as much as you like, many self employed peole work 50,60,70 hours a week and earn peanuts. Clocking in and out sounds like a luxury from where I am sitting

 

[yorkshirejames]

Hello All,

I've got another issue here... Could anybody help my with this, please...
My employer have introduced new clocking in & out rules recently. Nobody is allowed to clock in earlier then 2 minutes before starting time, and nobody is allowed to clock out later then 2 mins after finishing time. People had been clocking in earlier for years and nobody have ever claimed any overtime hours/minutes. 2 minutes before/after work is quite narrow time window. And what about if you need to stay longer to finish your work? Probably if you stay 15 minutes or more you could claim overtime pay, but what about 3-4-5 minutes longer? Is it legally supported in some way, or is it just employer's invention? For me it's ridiculous. I fully understand rules which tell you not to clock in later and not to clock out earlier then starting/finishing hours, because it's obvious. But narrowing it to some minutes...
Thank you for answers in advance.

If people arrive 10/15 minutes early (as many workers would often do) then by _not_ clocking in the moment they arrive they aren't appearing on the fire register. I would strongly suggest that all employees should clock in the minute they set foot on company premises.

 

[ShortCouture]

two minutes does seem an unreasonable small window. There are a lot of reasons why the employer wants the times to be accurate but I suspect that the person that made the rules does not use the timeclock and does not realise how difficult this is. If you have an employee rep of some kind get them to discuss it with the management and make other suggestions that allow the employer to reduce the amount of 'extra time' clocked (presumably they want no risk of anyone claiming overtime) but also allow you a reasonable amount of time.