Click and Collect

[mhall]

I'll say it again : "The internet has had it's day". Read the context the statement was made.

 

[japancool]

I'll say it again : "The internet has had it's day". Read the context the statement was made.

I read the context in which you made the statement. It doesn't change the reply.

 

[solent66]

Anything that relies on IP will go to the internet (books, music, films etc). But there will always be those who want the personal touch which is where b&m will keep its niche.

As for 3d printing, I don't see it being done at home any more than we currently print posters at home. But there will be high street stores who can design or customise off the shelf parts, give personal service and flourish.

 

[japancool]

As for 3d printing, I don't see it being done at home any more than we currently print posters at home. But there will be high street stores who can design or customise off the shelf parts, give personal service and flourish.

But we used to have to go and get photos developed, get physical tickets, boarding cards and so on. For larger items such as posters and books, you're right we don't print those but the latter is being replaced by electronic versions, so I can certainly see large segments of the retail sector being threatened by 3D printing. I mean, instead of having to go and buy a whole Lego kit to get that particular part you're missing, you can just print one off! 3D printing has some way to go yet but I wouldn't bet against it being mainstream in 10 years time.

 

[solent66]

I agree 3d printing will be mainstream but it won't totally replace physical stores.

 

[Nord20]

Just because no one has mentioned it - have you considered getting the best of both worlds and using Amazon Fulfilment?

Basically, you send your stock to Amazon's warehouse (so yes, you do have to post it, but only once, in a job lot) and then sell it through the Amazon site. Saves you the cost of your own site (and a mobile app will be both expensive and pointless, unless it is only for your existing customers - you will not get any new customers through it). The pro seller account is, I think, £25 per month, plus commission on each item sold, but requires little effort on your part and, more importantly, little upfront outlay (and risk).

Bear in mind your personal opinion about Amazon is worth precisely nothing: people use it and people are likely to continue to use it for the foreseeable future. You may not like it, but it's the reality we live in.

And I just have to comment on this 'the internet has had its day' nonsense. Yes, people are using mobile devices more, but that is just the physical medium used to access the internet - internet sales are increasing year on year and with the maturity of click & collect schemes as well as innovations in the sales and delivery process (Amazon prime air?), this trend is very unlikely to change any time soon. Click & Collect in particular is expected to explode in popularity over the next year.

The internet is like tescos - for most things, it is the cheapest and best option. B&M shops are like your local convenience store - really vital when it's midnight and you need some milk, and you're happy to pay a bit more for the convenience of getting it there and then.

Take a look at your local high street and count the number of shops that sell services (i.e. things that require the customer's presence) compared to goods. I'll bet you'll be surprised at how high the percentage of the former is compared to the latter.

 

[cjd]

Can you say why someone would use click and collect to buy from you? what advantage does it give?

Bear in mind that the major advantage of a service like Amazon is not having to leave the house, find parking and get home again. Whilst the advantage of ordinary shopping is that you get to look at it before you buy.

It seems to me that your system has all the disadvantages and few of the advantages.

Why do you think it works for your customers?

 

[Nord20]

Say I want to buy something and I need it today - so Amazon is out, because the earliest they can get it to me is tomorrow.

I go to their website, see they have it in stock, order it through click and collect and head into town knowing that I will be able to pick up my purchase and won't have a wasted journey.

Works for Argos.

 

[cjd]

Say I want to buy something and I need it today - so Amazon is out, because the earliest they can get it to me is tomorrow.

I go to their website, see they have it in stock, order it through click and collect and head into town knowing that I will be able to pick up my purchase and won't have a wasted journey.

It's very rare that i need something immediately but when I do find myself in that situation, I just ring......

But for most things, I'd expect the place I'm going to to to have what I'd expect it to have in stock and if it doesn't I stop going there.

What do you sell? Is it something that you wouldn't normally be expected to have and that has to be got immediately?

 

[mhall]

Just because no one has mentioned it - have you considered getting the best of both worlds and using Amazon Fulfilment?

I would never use Amazon

Bear in mind your personal opinion about Amazon is worth precisely nothing.

Totally disagree

Click & Collect in particular is expected to explode in popularity over the next year.

Which is exactly why we are looking at it.

The internet is like tescos - for most things, it is the cheapest and best option. B&M shops are like your local convenience store - really vital when it's midnight and you need some milk, and you're happy to pay a bit more for the convenience of getting it there and then.

Tesco is as bad as Amazon - it very much depends on what you sell and how you sell it. We have never competed on price and never will - so being the cheapest is not a game we want to play. The internet is only the best option if you are cheapest or very niche. We are also certainly not a convenience store type shop hoping to live off the breadcrumbs thrown down by Tesco. We are destination stores and have seen off our copy-tition for the last twelve years. We have seen them all come and go while we have quietly just got on with it and given the customers what they want.

Take a look at your local high street and count the number of shops that sell services (i.e. things that require the customer's presence) compared to goods. I'll bet you'll be surprised at how high the percentage of the former is compared to the latter.

and we like to think we are a good mixture of both - we want to see our customers and build relationships with them on a personal level. The fact that we get over a hundred Christmas cards from our customers tells me we are not doing a bad job of what we do. It's not easy and its an expensive way of doing business as it requires more staff than most shops have but it works for us - we may not make a fortune but then that's never been our goal.

 

[Nord20]

I think we can all agree that Tesco's and Amazon aren't shining beacons of goodness, but there is no avoiding the fact that amongst the masses, they are hugely popular. Whatever we may think of them, refusing to engage with Amazon on principle isn't going to do them any harm, and it just closes a potential avenue for you.

Amazon fulfilment will allow you to ship products to your customers without you incurring the risk of damage in transit - that risk is taken by Amazon (I mention this because you said was your main barrier to introducing a postal option for your customers).

"The internet is only the best option if you are cheapest or very niche."

This just isn't true - the internet is useful if you don't want to, or can't, leave the house. It's also very handy for comparing a full range of products (I'm thinking white goods, for example - B&M stores necessarily can't stock every single type of washing machine on the market, so rather than choosing from the limited selection in Curry's, the Internet allows you to compare all models from all manufacturers to help you make your choice - doesn't mean you always end up buying over the web). For items that are too large to carry home, you will end up getting it delivered anyway, so why make a special trip into town if you're going to get it delivered anyway?

I'm not suggesting you use the internet instead of B&M, just that is can be another useful arrow in your quiver.

I do get you offer an extra level of customer service and I have no doubt this increases your customer loyalty, but not everyone wants to pay a little bit more for that service, so you probably are losing some custom (assuming what you sell is available elsewhere) based on price. Some people are motivated by high service levels, others by price. Why not sell to both?

It's quite hard to argue against not wanting to make a fortune - I understand you aren't striving to be billionaires, but profit is how we keep score: to ignore a potential revenue stream on principle is....unusual.

 

[Nord20]

It's very rare that i need something immediately but when I do find myself in that situation, I just ring......

But for most things, I'd expect the place I'm going to to to have what I'd expect it to have in stock and if it doesn't I stop going there.

What do you sell? Is it something that you wouldn't normally be expected to have and that has to be got immediately?

A lot of shops don't answer the phone (see the rant thread on here for the pages on answering the phone), especially if they have customers in the store. Ringing round shops trying to find what you're looking for can be time consuming.

You may not want it often, but even if it's only once in a blue moon, it still happens and when it does, if you are in a position to fulfil someone's immediate need in a convenient fashion, you will get the business over another firm that can't.

I can't quite believe you said that every shop should have every product you think they should sell in stock at all times. It just doesn't work that way. If you don't look first, how would you know they even stock that product? You'd avoid a shop forever if you thought they should sell a particular model of toaster and they don't? Seems harsh...

I'm not talking personally about our business (we sell services, so it's a completely different model), but I do also moonlight as a web developer, so I'm not completely ignorant on the topic.

To turn it on its head - what harm does it do to your business if you offered a click and collect service? Aside from the initial outlay, the running costs are negligible and you would be offering an even better service to your customers, potentially opening yourselves up to a whole host of new customers too.

 

[mhall]

to ignore a potential revenue stream on principle is....unusual.

Not as unusual as you would think. As I see some of our old suppliers becoming whores to Tesco, and thereby screwing up their independents (and that's their choice) I am glad we keep a close watch and have been able to get out of them first. We have our fun and move on just as Tesco come in to destroy the market.

We then start all over again with a new product and a new supplier who is full of promises, but we know that, if it's a good product, we have four years max before they take the Tesco shilling. (other large Retailers are available and are just as bad)

We enjoy making sure our customers can't compare our prices on the internet without spending an age - it's my favourite game.

The saying about using a long spoon when sipping with the devil does not apply to us - we will never go near the bowl the devil drinks from - we know when we can compete and when we can't and I am not going to waste time or energy playing games that I know I can't win. Hubby might want to but I believe I am just wasting energy.

The best example I can give at the moment is Yankee Candle, who we don't deal with but very nearly did. Nowadays if you pay more than half price for a Yankee Candle you are a fool and you can buy them almost everywhere. The quality of the product, I am told, has fallen through the floor and independents are treated like crap while Tesco and Asda are lorded. The independents are told it's all about "brand awareness" as Yankee supply to everyone with a pulse - seven people in one of our towns alone. I am told that every Christmas they have supply "problems" and yet Debenhams, Clintons, the Co-Op, Tesco, Asda and B&Q seem to have stock to spare. A bullet we dodged very well although we nearly got suckered in by the promise of higher foot fall.

 

[cjd]

I can't quite believe you said that every shop should have every product you think they should sell in stock at all times. It just doesn't work that way. If you don't look first, how would you know they even stock that product? You'd avoid a shop forever if you thought they should sell a particular model of toaster and they don't? Seems harsh...

First off, i thought I was talking to the OP so apologies for the non-sequitur.

My point was that if I know a shop, then I'd know what stock it held so I'd have no cause to click and collect, I'd just go. If the shop was continually out of stock of the items they normally sell, I'd stop using it. (I'm thinking of our village baker now..)

To turn it on its head - what harm does it do to your business if you offered a click and collect service? Aside from the initial outlay, the running costs are negligible and you would be offering an even better service to your customers, potentially opening yourselves up to a whole host of new customers too.

Well this is what I'm trying to establish. Click and collect seems pointless - you have to go and get it, so where's the advantage?

So far it seems that the benefit is that you know it's in stock - well maybe you do but only if the shop has a real time inventory that works and that costs to set up and maintain and how much better is that to a phone call? (Not answering the phone is a bit of a silly reason to introduce a C&C.)

I suspect it depends on the product, which is why I asked. (I see Asda has built a click and collect in its car park - i can see the point of that, someone does all the shopping for you and you just pick it up.)

 

[Nord20]

Not as unusual as you would think. As I see some of our old suppliers becoming whores to Tesco, and thereby screwing up their independents (and that's their choice) I am glad we keep a close watch and have been able to get out of them first. We have our fun and move on just as Tesco come in to destroy the market.

But this is different - you have very solid business reasons for not going down that particular road. It's not on principle - it would hurt your business. Remember, suppliers don't give two hoots about who they are supplying to, as long as they are getting the best deal they think they can get. Some will take a longer term approach to this, others are more short sighted.

'On principle' is saying I'm not going to engage with Amazon because I just don't like them, even if there is a solid business case for doing so. Clearly, if you reason that engaging with Amazon will have negative consequences for your business, that's a different story.

My point was that if I know a shop, then I'd know what stock it held so I'd have no cause to click and collect, I'd just go. If the shop was continually out of stock of the items they normally sell, I'd stop using it. (I'm thinking of our village baker now..)

Yes, I get that, C&C is not appropriate for all business models (although wouldn't it be nice if you went into the bakers and they had your 6 croissants, two loaves and a sticky bun all ready for you, at the time you wanted them - no rushing out at 6am lest they run out?

But what if you didn't know the shop - what if you find yourself thinking 'oh God, it's Billy-Bob's birthday tomorrow and I haven't got him a present. I know he likes singing bananas, but I don't know where I can get one today.'

You search around on the web (so you're searching for a product, not a retailer), find a local shop that sells them and you can confirm they have them in stock (and reserve one - the reservation part is important for the shop, as people are much more likely to go through with the purchase if they have reserved an item).

In that respect, I agree - it is more about getting new customers into your store.

Without knowing what you sell, it's difficult to be specific, but do your regular customers tend to buy one item when they come in, or a few items? Is there no value in you having their order ready for them when they come in to pick it up?

So far it seems that the benefit is that you know it's in stock - well maybe you do but only if the shop has a real time inventory that works and that costs to set up and maintain and how much better is that to a phone call? (Not answering the phone is a bit of a silly reason to introduce a C&C.)

Yes - the customer knowing that they will not have a wasted journey is a huge factor, plus people tend to go through with purchases when they have reserved something.

Presumably you do have some kind of stock control? Plugging that into your website wouldn't be too tricky, assuming you are using an electronic system of some description. In fact, it would end up saving you loads, as once it's set up, all stock in and stock out is available real time and you don't have to worry about any manual checking/counting. We are largely service based, but we do sell some merchandise - we had a delivery of over 1000 items two weeks ago and it took the staff 10 minutes to enter it into the system and we can immediately tell a customer if we have the size and colour they are looking for.

Again, to play devil's advocate - someone phone's up and asks you if you have something in stock - if you don't have real time inventory, how can you answer without rummaging around in the stock room first? All the while ignoring the customers actually standing in front of you?

C&C is certainly not the be all and end all and there is certainly an argument that it isn't appropriate for a lot of stores, but it can add value, can be a useful tool for your existing and potential customers and can be implemented relatively easily, if you already have an online presence. It does need to be treated as a bolt on to an existing website and I do get that if you don't currently have an e-commerce site, it might be too much of a front-loaded cost to be worth it.

 

[a1anm]

So far it seems that the benefit is that you know it's in stock - well maybe you do but only if the shop has a real time inventory that works and that costs to set up and maintain and how much better is that to a phone call? (Not answering the phone is a bit of a silly reason to introduce a C&C.)

That's a good point. To prevent people from Clicking and then arriving to find out the product is out of stock would require a good setup. Your POS would need to link directly with the C&C system. Even then you could run in to the problem were someone walks in your shop and puts something in their shopping basket only to find out that when they reach the till someone has just reserved it online so they can't buy it. That would be frustrating and maybe hard for people to understand. The likes of Argos and Asda wouldn't really have this issue.

If you always have high levels of stock then this shouldn't be a problem.

I suspect it depends on the product, which is why I asked. (I see Asda has built a click and collect in its car park - i can see the point of that, someone does all the shopping for you and you just pick it up.)

I have only used Argos C&C a couple of times but I think with their C&C there is the advantage that once you arrive your item has already been picked so it reduces the wait time. I also imagine it would be hard if not impossible to phone Argos and ask then to set something aside for me. If I called an independent I would like to think they would do this. Maybe for C&C to be successful there needs to be more of an incentive to the customer rather than just reserving online and then coming in and going through the same procedure that they would have if they didn't C&C?

Like others have said a lot is probably dependent on what you sell, how busy your shop is and what advantages your C&C system will offer the customer.

 

[UKSBD]

I don't think it will be so much about click and collect as in you browse online, order and then collect.

It will be more about, your already in town, search for the product in the town, can read a full description of product, see images and know you can go and physically view one whist you are still in town.

The store will have full product information easily accessible and the staff will be able to answer any questions asked at the click of a button.

Dixons group are already turning things around by having more knowledgeable staff when in fact it's probably exactly the same staff but they can read product fact sheets and specs easier than they could before.

It won't be a case of online shopping or offline shopping, it will be virtually online shopping done actually within the store with each product in the store having full info that you can read on your smartphone as your shopping in the store.

 

[fairdealworld]

"Well this is what I'm trying to establish. Click and collect seems pointless - you have to go and get it, so where's the advantage?"

Well to a certain extent retail is all about smoke and mirrors rather than about logic. Many customers DO want click and collect whether they have a logical reason for it or not. If customers want something and it is feasible/affordable to provide why wouldn't you provide it?

 

[cjd]

Well to a certain extent retail is all about smoke and mirrors rather than about logic. Many customers DO want click and collect whether they have a logical reason for it or not. If customers want something and it is feasible/affordable to provide why wouldn't you provide it?

If it's irrational, I'd want to see some evidence that people actually do want it in my type of market before I spent time and money providing it.

 

[Hunnie]

Hi,
As a customer, I love click & collect.
I know my item is in the store for me.
I don't have to waste time waiting around at home.
I am busy and generally out at some point in my car so can stop, at my convenience to collect the item.
I really don't mind whether I pay up front on collection.

However I do need the store to have easy parking, as close as possible.

Regards, Hunnie

 

[Mayor]

I bought something from Screwfix today. I thought about buying it and having it delivered. Worked out too expensive, and I wanted it sooner rather than later. I thought about click and collect - the store is only 2 miles away. I just couldn't be bothered to fill in all the on-line form gubbins and put in my card number etc, so I picked up the phone, asked them if they had the thing in stock (took - ooh 10-15 seconds), hopped in the car, went and bought it. I was in there for about 3 minutes whilst they picked my items - (there was only 2). I did however, spend an extra £15 on bits and pieces that they had on display in their sale, whilst I was waiting. Oops !

 

[Nord20]

John Lewis today reported C&C sales were up 60% in 2013 on 2012.

 

[cjd]

Wife pointed out something I'd - rather stupidly - missed.

Most people aren't at home during the day, so ordering and then collecting is more convenient than either shopping or getting stuff delivered.

 

[dazzi41]

Well this was the first christmas i did all my shopping online. I didn't buy a single present in a shop this year. Can't shops have a chat with other stores around them and create a local site as i do like shopping online BUT i hate waiting for the goods. I have actually tried to find one of these but i don't think i found a fully working site yet.

 

[Mayor]

Well this was the first christmas i did all my shopping online. I didn't buy a single present in a shop this year. Can't shops have a chat with other stores around them and create a local site as i do like shopping online BUT i hate waiting for the goods. I have actually tried to find one of these but i don't think i found a fully working site yet.

You're kidding right ? You deliberately don't support your local shops, as you prefer to shop online, yet you want us all to get together to accommodate you ? Yeah, right.

 

[a1anm]

You're kidding right ? You deliberately don't support your local shops, as you prefer to shop online, yet you want us all to get together to accommodate you ? Yeah, right.

God forbid a retailer doing something to accommodate customers!

I thought B&M retailers would be glad to hear of potential ways to win back customers who have started shopping online.

Isn't that what this thread is about? Looking for ways to make things easier for customers to buy?

I think it would be a good idea (from a customers point of view) if there was one website where I could see all the products from all my local shops at once. I could purchase from multiple retailers and then go collect them all...possibly from a central location. Would be much simpler than buying from all the shops individually.

 

[Mayor]

Looks like some sort of "supermarket" would fit the bill for you then ?

I do try to accommodate my customers, but the suggestion I raised my eyebrows to, is one where I am being asked to offer all my products on-line, and where they can be collected from a central collection point by someone that doesn't want to go shopping.

After due consideration, I will be unable to accommodate this particular request, I will continue with my old fashioned "shop" staffed by humans, where people can come and buy things, and I will cater for those that DO like shopping. No offence to anyone that wants to buy online etc, just my preference.

 

[a1anm]

Looks like some sort of "supermarket" would fit the bill for you then ?

Mmm, not really. The suggestion would allow me to buy things from local/independent shops and then go and pick them up.

I do try to accommodate my customers, but the suggestion I raised my eyebrows to, is one where I am being asked to offer all my products on-line, and where they can be collected from a central collection point by someone that doesn't want to go shopping.

After due consideration, I will be unable to accommodate this particular request, I will continue with my old fashioned "shop" staffed by humans, where people can come and buy things, and I will cater for those that DO like shopping. No offence to anyone that wants to buy online etc, just my preference.

Sorry, I hadn't realised dazzi41 was asking you to do this personally. I understood that it was a general suggestion on a thread about 'Click & Collect' i.e. buying online and then picking the purchases up.

Offering such a service wouldn't prevent you from having a shop with staff that caters to people who like shopping. However it would also allow you to also cater to people who don't like to or don't have time to go shopping.

 

[MBE1]

Web sales this xmas period announced as almost 20% up year on year, so the claim of the web being dead seem premature.

 

[mhall]

Web sales this xmas period announced as almost 20% up year on year, so the claim of the web being dead seem premature.

Sigh, If you don't understand the context of my comment, you wouldn't understand the context of my response.

 

[warnie]

I bought something from Screwfix today. I thought about buying it and having it delivered. Worked out too expensive, and I wanted it sooner rather than later. I thought about click and collect - the store is only 2 miles away. I just couldn't be bothered to fill in all the on-line form gubbins and put in my card number etc, so I picked up the phone, asked them if they had the thing in stock (took - ooh 10-15 seconds), hopped in the car, went and bought it. I was in there for about 3 minutes whilst they picked my items - (there was only 2). I did however, spend an extra £15 on bits and pieces that they had on display in their sale, whilst I was waiting. Oops !

That is great and is what I would do some of the time. But, sometimes I'm a miserable and unsociable git and just want to click reserve, then go and collect. Argos is great as you can turn and pay at one of the terminals as well, then just grunt 'cheers' when they hand over your purchase .

I think it's and easy and effective way of allowing the local community to browse your store, amongst others online, in their homes and still support local businesses. After all, a lot of the time it's not like people want to shop with the big boys all the time, sometimes that want that something a little bit unique that only the independents can offer. It's just that the big boys make it easy for us, and the independents require us to get off our backsides and go and visit the store, only to find out that they're out of stock or are not doing that product anymore, which can be very frustrating when time is precious.

I'm hoping to start this up, but for our gifts only, and then take it from there. We will not be posting or competing on price, just offering what we do best, something a little different that looks and tastes great.

 

[mhall]

Thought I would give you all an update.

Thanks for all your comments, particularly a1anm - I took your advice and decided to go down the shopify route - we spent the time on the free trial putting stock in the shop, changed the payment method to click and collect (which was great because we could have a different click and collect for each shop) and disabled Delivery and Credit Card payments.

We still have to tweak a few bits, mainly because its not linked to our stock control system - I'm not paying for that unless it all works and makes money.

The result was a basic but reasonably good looking site. We then ran out of time and are now paying a monthly fee of around £30 but we then asked our facebook customers to have a look and test the site before we went live. - over thirty of them have been playing with it for the last ten days. A couple wanted us to change things we can't change (what do you expect for £30 a month?) but almost everyone was impressed, especially liking our reasons for NOT selling on line it has to be said.

Most interesting (and exciting for us) was the number of people who have said things like "wow- I didn't see this product when I came in, I'm having that" and "it's great to sit and browse and choose - I know I will buy extra when I come in as I'll have more time"

and the most gratifying comments - of the 30 we asked to play, 25 have said things along the line of "this is good, but it will never replace the service I get when I come in, please don't stop that" - and I admit to shedding a few tears of pride at those.

So - as I have always said - you don't need an internet "shop", you just need an internet presence and we have a click and collect website for £30 a month that also acts as a shop window. We just need to tweak and make price comparison difficult (not that we will worry too much, we see the site as being for our current customers, we certainly won't be gagging to get page ranked or any of that nonsense . We plan to go live in a couple of weeks once we have finished putting the stock on and I'll let you know if it all goes wrong. If it does, we have lost less than £8 a week so no big deal, but as we have already made over £300 worth of "I didn't see this " sales it's all looking rather good. x