Child labour ?

[Silky]

There is a very big difference between being forced to work in a sweat shop to earn food for your family.

Just going off at a tangent here but it's incorrect to assume that a Chinese factory is automatically a sweat shop. There are a number of electronics factories I have visited that put English manufacturing to shame and these aren't necessarily the exceptions either.


Silky

 

[frimleypit4]

I know - I lived there for several years, my wife is Chinese, my Son is half Chinese! At this point I am going to discontinue contributing to this thread on the basis that arguing for the sake of it is a waste of time. If you believe strongly enough then I guess you will do something about it, frankly I get the impression you are just one of those who likes preaching their moral superiority to others.

 

[Zeno]

I know - I lived there for several years, my wife is Chinese, my Son is half Chinese! At this point I am going to discontinue contributing to this thread on the basis that arguing for the sake of it is a waste of time. If you believe strongly enough then I guess you will do something about it, frankly I get the impression you are just one of those who likes preaching their moral superiority to others.

I can't agree with you there. I got the impression that the OP is just concerned that kids are being taken advantage of to line someones pockets.

I'm as happy as the next man to see kids doing something constructive with their time but it seems to me that the balance is not right here. Fair enough if like some of the members have remembered from their own childhoods that the girls spend some time working then get to ride the horses etc in return but no-one seems to recall working in the cafe.

 

[Silky]

Ifrankly I get the impression you are just one of those who likes preaching their moral superiority to others.

Moral superiority? If that's what it's called to expect a company to adhere to the laws of the land, then so be it. I just don't think the excuse "but they enjoy it !" justifies acting illegally for material gain. Whether the kids enjoy it or not, it doesn't negate the fact that the company is exploiting the kids' enthusiasm to line its own pockets. If they want to get the kids involved, at least recognise their efforts and give them something in return (like the free lessons Claire mentioned) - surely that's only fair?

A few weeks ago on here there was a thread about someone wanting to pay their dad a bit of pin money and avoid putting it through the books. Quel horreur ! - the forum was outraged. Funnily enough, it's deemed ok to act illegally in building your business using children, but not when our cash / tax revenues are at stake, however small the amounts.

Funny old world ;-)

Silky

 

[Officebird]

Whether the kids enjoy it or not, it doesn’t negate the fact that the company is exploiting the kids’ enthusiasm to line its own pockets. If they want to get the kids involved, at least recognise their efforts and give them something in return (like the free lessons Claire mentioned) – surely that’s only fair?

But this would still be illegal under the rules

A few weeks ago on here there was a thread about someone wanting to pay their dad a bit of pin money and avoid putting it through the books. Quel horreur ! – the forum was outraged. Funnily enough, it’s deemed ok to act illegally in building your business using children, but not when our cash / tax revenues are at stake, however small the amounts.

I do think it is a seperate issue. The stables are operating in a way that they have operated for years. This doesn't mean I agree with it by the way! If the children are working there illegally (which it seems they are) and you feel you can't stand by and watch this happen then you should go and talk to the stables at the very least. You don't seem to want to stop them attending, more you want them to get some kin dof financial gain or free horse riding lessons. So if a child under 13 works for 5 hours for a 30min horse riding lesson would that make it ok? Not in the eyes of the law it wouldn't, but you seem to suggest it would be alright to break the law if the children were getting free lessons.

Are you sure some aren't there for Pony Club? Like I say the stables my daughter goes to has Pony Club 9-4/5pm on Sat and the girls that go actually pay to be there. This is not work it is a club, like scouts or brownies, it just so happens that at their club they work very hard. Children put hours into ballet or learning a musical instrument. If this is what interests them then by stopping it happen who loses out? The stables won't as they will simply charge the children to muck out and lead horses and call it pony club.

At the end of the day Silky, you are the only one in a position to see what is happening and you are the only one who can go to the stables to voice your concerns. It may even be that the stables don't know about the new laws. If I felt as strongly as you do I would go to the stables and voice my concerns.

 

[Zeno]

Are you seriously telling me that you can charge children (Well, parents) for the privelege of shovelling sh*t?

When I was a lad I built airfix models. What ever happened to that?

 

[yorkshirejames]

Is it a charity perhaps rather than a business? Making the children volunteers rather than workers?

A volunteer _is_ a worker for the purposes of Health & Safety.

 

[Silky]

Are you seriously telling me that you can charge children (Well, parents) for the privelege of shovelling sh*t?

It's actually called "Stable Management" and costs £30 a day. Interested?


Officebird, I believe these stables (and indeed any other business) should operate in line with the law - this allows children of 13 to work within given criteria. A number of my neighbours have voiced concern at the operating practices of this stable but living in such a close proximity, they've been loathe to take a stance.....

Silky

 

[Zeno]

If any parents are interested in my new venture "The gardening club" where for a fee of £10 per day per child, your wee brats can learn all about crass cutting, weeding, tea making in a mostly safe environment.

Please also contact me if you are looking for reliable, cheap landscaping and grounds maintainence.

Coming soon - the car club where your kids can learn all about the upkeep and preservation of motor vehicles. Bring your own bucket...

 

[Officebird]

If any parents are interested in my new venture "The gardening club" where for a fee of £10 per day per child, your wee brats can learn all about crass cutting, weeding, tea making in a mostly safe environment.

Please also contact me if you are looking for reliable, cheap landscaping and grounds maintainence.

Coming soon - the car club where your kids can learn all about the upkeep and preservation of motor vehicles. Bring your own bucket...

It is bizarre children like to do the horse thing. You're just jealous you didn't think of it first!

I know someone whose child goes to a private school and attends Pony Club. The best part about it is they don't actually go anywhere near pnies as it is presumed that they have their own! So the parents I know (who don't have a pony) pay extra for their child to go to a pony club without ponies!!!!

My little one is already going off horse riding as she has to wear trousers, and that is a big sticking point for a little girl who lives in dresses After reading this thread though I shall be more than happy to stop taking her.

 

[vision25]

Funny, the same goes for the child labour in China. The children there may think they're the lucky ones, they've escaped rural poverty and are given a chance to provide for their families. But big bad UK customers decide they should be sent back to harsh northern climes - what complete and utter spoilsports. (And our customers won't allow our factories to use anyone under 14, definitely not 9).

Yes, much better that children be forced into prostitution to feed their families.

As I mentioned earlier, it's not about a bit of helping out - the kids either have to do a full whack and work a very full weekend or not at all. They don't vote with their feet because they don't want to be ditched off the team. I personally find it immoral for a business to exploit their interest in this way and certainly wouldn't see anyone wanting to protect children as being an "idiotic prat", whether it's in the UK or 6,000 miles away.

Do the kids volunteer to do it and can they leave at any time. Answer *YES*, hence no exploitation is involved.

Look, these kids, stupid as they may be, only do it because they themselves get something from it.

 

[blackandwhite1986]

Have you spoken to them or reported them yet silky?

 

[yorkshirejames]

If any parents are interested in my new venture "The gardening club" where for a fee of £10 per day per child, your wee brats can learn all about crass cutting, weeding, tea making in a mostly safe environment.

Please also contact me if you are looking for reliable, cheap landscaping and grounds maintainence.

Coming soon - the car club where your kids can learn all about the upkeep and preservation of motor vehicles. Bring your own bucket...

I also have a child venture.... called the accountancy club. Teach little johnny how to prepare a balance sheet on a saturday morning.

While I'm here, does anyone want any accounts doing? Discount of 10% on my normal rates for the next month. Weekend premium reduced from 100% to 10%.

 

[Zeno]

I also have a child venture.... called the accountancy club. Teach little johnny how to prepare a balance sheet on a saturday morning.

While I'm here, does anyone want any accounts doing? Discount of 10% on my normal rates for the next month. Weekend premium reduced from 100% to 10%.

Damn it all, you beat me to it.

 

[Silky]

Yes, much better that children be forced into prostitution to feed their families.

I don't entirely disagree Vision, I think it 's very difficult to impose a moral code when the culture, economics and standard of living is completely different.

Do the kids volunteer to do it and can they leave at any time. Answer *YES*, hence no exploitation is involved.

Look, these kids, stupid as they may be, only do it because they themselves get something from it.

The law disagrees. I'm sure my kids would love to work in a sweet shop if someone offered them a couple of quid for the full day work and all the sweets they could eat. That doesn't mean it's not exploitation - an employer flouting the law and using children's enthusiasm as a cheap way of making profit.

Silky

 

[Silky]

I also have a child venture.... called the accountancy club. Teach little johnny how to prepare a balance sheet on a saturday morning.

While I'm here, does anyone want any accounts doing? Discount of 10% on my normal rates for the next month. Weekend premium reduced from 100% to 10%.

Good idea Yorkshirejames. In fact thinking about it, there are quite a few young' uns who are fairly savvy on t'internet too. I'm sure they'd be able to knock up a couple of websites quite cheaply - they'd be "learning", probably enjoying it too, probably very grateful for a couple of quid pocket money and we could sell them on for great mark ups. (From the looks of it there'd be a few potential clients around here !) The possibilities are endless......

Silky

 

[Country Services]

No doubt the business involved is benefitting from so-called child labour, but the benefit goes both ways. It is a win-win situation, just like many apprenticeships once were.

Like many girls in rural areas I spent half my childhood working long hours mucking out ponies and cleaning tack in exchange for a precious hour on horseback once a week. I cycled four miles to the stables and back each and every day and never begrudged a second of my time

The benefits to children from working with horses are enormous. Most stables are well run and a lot of routines and procedures are involved in maintaining these animals in good health.

The children working there learn practical skills, mental skills, teamwork, discipline, order, organization, how to work hard and have fun at the same time. How to follow instructions effectively, and eventually to give effective instructions to others.. And they get the exercise that kids so badly need and which most do not have sufficient of. To compare such kids with children enslaved in poverty in other countries is unreasonable. It is highly likely that all of these young girls go home to a decent meal at the end of the day, are well educated, well clothed and are there entirely by choice. Most stable girls will never be paid at all, but will simply be offered riding instruction, and experiences which they will treasure all of their lives. I hardly think children working in sweat shops in asia would say the same about their experiences of childhood labour.

All the people I know that grew up around horses or farm animals are very well equipped for life with a strong sense of purpose and self discipline. Many modern children are obese, bored, overprotected and undisciplined. These girls at the stables are the lucky minority

The great sadness is, the people who own these stables, and who are doing what stable owners have done since time immemorial are putting themselves in a very dangerous (legally speaking) situation and will most likely be ‘grassed up’ by some well meaning ‘do-gooder’ who thinks kids are better off indoors experiencing life through an xbox, or by someone jealous of the success of their business.

Ilegal it may be. Immoral it is not. And if they are stopped, as I am sure they will be, everyone involved including the girls who work there will be losers.

 

[vision25]

I don't entirely disagree Vision, I think it 's very difficult to impose a moral code when the culture, economics and standard of living is completely different.

So in that case don't. Simply say that a freemarket and strong property rights are the best way forward.

The law disagrees. I'm sure my kids would love to work in a sweet shop if someone offered them a couple of quid for the full day work and all the sweets they could eat. That doesn't mean it's not exploitation - an employer flouting the law and using children's enthusiasm as a cheap way of making profit.

I do wish some of you would stop talking about the "law" as if it was some sort of moral arbitor, it's not. It merely details whats legal. Suppose it was illegal to wear a loud shirt in a built up area, be in possession of an offensive wife or have thick black lips and fizzy hair, would that be morally right?

There is far too much "law" in this country. The law should merely be concerned with enforcing a free market and strong property rights and basically let people do whatever they freely consent to.

So if these stupid kids with their weirdo horse fetish and the kids parents approve then, quite frankly, it's nobody elses business.

I do hope the riding school owner is making a good wedge, I wonder if they could get the kids to pay £5/day for the privilage of "working" there.

 

[Silky]

The great sadness is, the people who own these stables, and who are doing what stable owners have done since time immemorial are putting themselves in a very dangerous (legally speaking) situation and will most likely be ‘grassed up’ by some well meaning ‘do-gooder’ who thinks kids are better off indoors experiencing life through an xbox, or by someone jealous of the success of their business.

Ilegal it may be. Immoral it is not. And if they are stopped, as I am sure they will be, everyone involved including the girls who work there will be losers.

Ouch! Forgive me for raising the subject. Just to put the record straight, I certainly don't think kids are better off behind an x-box - having spent the summer arranging holidays/ camping / days out for over 100 families at a time it's actually quite the reverse. Anyway.... what I'm saying is I just don't agree that the girls should be used as a cheap form of labour simply to line the owners pocket. Simple as that. (and as mentioned before, I'm not entirely sure what working in the cafe actually brings to the party but I'm obviously being naive in this). The fact this has gone on for decades doesn't persuade me it's right.

Illegal versus immoral.... Why don't the owners give the girls fair reward? Because it may corrupt them at such a young age? Because they'd only spend it on sweets? Because they really wouldn't appreciate free lessons? Or because they'd rather keep the cash for their own bottom line? Hmm.

As a business person I don't actually have any respect (or indeed jealousy) for someone who flouts the rules for success. My partner was previously employed as a consultant advising on hacking security systems - we could easily use his knowledge for our own personal gain (there's so many databases that we'd just loooove to own) but as well as being illegal, just where's the satisfaction and achievement in success when it's based on unfair means? Call me old fashioned...

Silky

 

[Silky]

There is far too much "law" in this country. The law should merely be concerned with enforcing a free market and strong property rights and basically let people do whatever they freely consent to.
.

Do you really believe that???!! There are lots of things children "may freely consent to" or believe they are "freely consenting to" when persuaded. The law is there to protect and as a parent I am grateful for it.

Silky

 

[blackandwhite1986]

Has there been a complaint made against the stables in question previously?

 

[TotallySport]

How about looking at it another way, all the under 14's who are taking people for rides (sorry not a horse teckie person) are doing out a paid job for the 14+ kids that would benefit from the pocket money?

( i don't have a problem with anyone muking out etc, but being responsible for other people stock etc, IMO needs to be paid for the responsibility)

 

[Cornish Steve]

Why don't the owners give the girls fair reward?

But that's the whole point - they are! The girls get to be around horses for hours at a time and at no cost.

The free market balances supply and demand, right? There's clearly a demand from young girls to be around horses, so no payment is needed.

The law is good, and it's there for a reason, and safety is important. But when it comes to laws based purely on ideology (and minimum wage is one such law), the law can be an ass. Yes, we can impose it strictly (a "work to rule"), but then we stop a number of good and wholesome ventures. And for the sake of what?

In areas like this, common sense counts for a lot more than the letter of the law.

 

[Zeno]

Not for working in the cafe though.

 

[Gillie]

Have I missed the bit about where this place has been contacted and talked to about this whole thing??

 

[frimleypit4]

For some reason that question is continuously ignored, despite being asked at least 3 times now! It's easy to have strong convictions within the safe anonimity offered by a keyboard and screen!

 

[Silky]

I haven't decided on any course of action yet, just wanted to canvas opinion first. Must admit the link to the legal side of this has coloured my views though.

Silky

 

[vision25]

Do you really believe that???!! There are lots of things children "may freely consent to" or believe they are "freely consenting to" when persuaded. The law is there to protect and as a parent I am grateful for it.

<Abt too many laws>

Yes I really DO beleive that because it's true.

Unlike you I have no need to set up an extremely silly straw man.

Why are children not treated like adults?

Because they have not grown up to become adults and arn't considered to be as mentally capable as adults.

Going back to the riding school, the kids parents obviously do consent to their offspring being treated this way otherwise they would do something about it.;

 

[Cornish Steve]

This thread has gone on for a bit, so I reread many of the messages to see if I could get to the crux of the matter.

- The stables/animal farm is popular with children and in particular with young girls who like to be around horses. It would be a real shame to do anything that takes away this option.

- There is a potential safety issue with young girls leading even younger girls on the horses. It's not unreasonable for the stables to ensure an adult is always present when any child is riding a horse.

- The stables require children to work a full day, which can be tiring. Personally, I see this as a good thing. As long as the child signs up willingly, it teaches them the value of hard work and some responsibility.

- The stables require children to help out in the cafeteria. As long as an adult is there too, I see little problem with this either. When home-schooling my older daughter, I'd take her to work with me all the time and ask her to do little tasks for me. It's passing along useful knowledge and part of growing up.

- The stables are breaking the law by asking young children to work there. While this may strictly be true, applying the law would stop this program right away - and a lot of young girls would be disappointed. What good would this achieve? They chose to be there, they love being with the horses, and they don't seek to be paid money. The only reason for reporting this would be to satisfy and outsider's sense of right and wrong. Of course, we should never violate our conscience, but is it worth shutting down the stables over this?

So, if I were considering what to do, I'd probably have a quiet word with the owners about safety - quoting the example of a horse rearing when a dog ran around its feet. If children are left alone to work in the cafeteria, I'd quietly mention that this could be putting a child in danger too - hot surfaces, strangers being alone with a child, and so on. In other words, I wouldn't take this to the authorities but would have a friendly word with the owners. A little good-natured chat can often solve a host of problems.

 

[vision25]

I haven't decided on any course of action yet, just wanted to canvas opinion first. Must admit the link to the legal side of this has coloured my views though.

Are the owners happy? Yes.

Are the kids happy? Yes.

So why do you feel the need to stick your nose into other peoples business. So what if you don't approve, why do you claim the right to play god and force your opinion on others. Whatever they get up to in the stables has no affect on you.

Just what is so special about you?

You posted earlier ;

""Let the kids decide for themselves, if they want to work and earn money at 6...8 then fine. They probably wouldn't get much of an education anyway and at least they'll be doing something useful. Kids happy, employer happy (very cheap labour), importer happy (very cheap prices), UK consumer happy too. Who's going to complain ? Ok the odd UK tabloid might kick up a fuss (a la Primark) but that's just plain sensationalism isn't it?""

Substitute wages for being around horse and there you have it. If its alright in foreign countries why isn't it alright here. Your rather odd personal morality is not even logically consistent.

 

[Silky]

<Abt too many laws>

Unlike you I have no need to set up an extremely silly straw man.

???? No, you prefer to descend into insults. Sad tactic.
What's so silly about defending the law?

Why are children not treated like adults?

Because they have not grown up to become adults and aren't considered to be as mentally capable as adults.

The very reason they have laws to protect them ! This argument is becoming circular....


In essence the choice for the stable is to either a pay someone a wage for leading out the riders for 8 hours each day or use a child foc, contravening the law. To me no matter how you dress that up, that smacks of exploitation. Are the stables thinking of the child in this or their own bottom line? Let me think : free labour versus paid......hmm, difficult choice. Yes, the kids may enjoy it, yes the parents may too, but why not at least give them something for their hard work? (and work within the boundaries of the law when it comes to the time they're allowed to work). Why not? Because of money, that's why.

As pointed out by other posters where does the boundary lie? Washing cars could be great fun each day too. No pay but hey, play with the bubbles, make friends, keep away from the X-box. Mum's happy too, they're not under her feet....

It's your prerogative to support someone breaking the law for their own financial gain, I think it's pretty miserable. (And I still don't see a justification for the work in the cafe in all of this, conveniently forgotten)

Silky

 

[TotallySport]

This thread has gone on for a bit, so I reread many of the messages to see if I could get to the crux of the matter.

- The stables/animal farm is popular with children and in particular with young girls who like to be around horses. It would be a real shame to do anything that takes away this option.

- There is a potential safety issue with young girls leading even younger girls on the horses. It's not unreasonable for the stables to ensure an adult is always present when any child is riding a horse.

- The stables require children to work a full day, which can be tiring. Personally, I see this as a good thing. As long as the child signs up willingly, it teaches them the value of hard work and some responsibility.

- The stables require children to help out in the cafeteria. As long as an adult is there too, I see little problem with this either. When home-schooling my older daughter, I'd take her to work with me all the time and ask her to do little tasks for me. It's passing along useful knowledge and part of growing up.

- The stables are breaking the law by asking young children to work there. While this may strictly be true, applying the law would stop this program right away - and a lot of young girls would be disappointed. What good would this achieve? They chose to be there, they love being with the horses, and they don't seek to be paid money. The only reason for reporting this would be to satisfy and outsider's sense of right and wrong. Of course, we should never violate our conscience, but is it worth shutting down the stables over this?

So, if I were considering what to do, I'd probably have a quiet word with the owners about safety - quoting the example of a horse rearing when a dog ran around its feet. If children are left alone to work in the cafeteria, I'd quietly mention that this could be putting a child in danger too - hot surfaces, strangers being alone with a child, and so on. In other words, I wouldn't take this to the authorities but would have a friendly word with the owners. A little good-natured chat can often solve a host of problems.

Good Post

 

[Silky]

So why do you feel the need to stick your nose into other peoples business. So what if you don't approve, why do you claim the right to play god and force your opinion on others. Whatever they get up to in the stables has no affect on you.

Just what is so special about you?
.

Hmm.

I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone, I've merely started a discussion on a forum - sorry if my views are different to yours. (Well actually having read your views, no I'm not).

This particular instance has struck a chord with some because it's a stable.

What if it were a factory?
A garage?
A car wash?
A sweetshop?
Or all they all allowed to flout the law? Or only a chosen few? Are laws discretional? Do we all just keep our head down when they are contravened? You seem to suggest we should because it's "none of our business".

What is so wrong about a business paying a fair day's wage for a fair day's work?

Silky

 

[TotallySport]

Are the owners happy? Yes.

Are the kids happy? Yes.

So why do you feel the need to stick your nose into other peoples business. So what if you don't approve, why do you claim the right to play god and force your opinion on others. Whatever they get up to in the stables has no affect on you.

Just what is so special about you?

Although not just at the post qouted, many kids used to like going to chour practise at local churchs and that has a very sawded pasted, no one thought twice about it no one ever questioned it.

The OP hasn't ran to the local council asking for it to be shut down, she has come asking for advice to make an informed choice, she isn't asking for anyone to stop anything or to make it hard for the children or the owners, but is thinking of the welfare of other people a good thing IMO. It is easy for people to get complacent and when something then happens everyone will be saying why didn't the council know about it, and why didn't they act, or why didn't the people who live near do something sooner.

I think ring them up, make an oppointment to talk to someone and put over a sypathic case, and take it from there, you might want to spend a day working there to see it from the childs point of view.

 

[TotallySport]

Hmm.

I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone, I've merely started a discussion on a forum - sorry if my views are different to yours. (Well actually having read your views, no I'm not).

This particular instance has struck a chord with some because it's a stable.

What if it were a factory?
A garage?
A car wash?
A sweetshop?
Or all they all allowed to flout the law? Or only a chosen few? Are laws discretional? Do we all just keep our head down when they are contravened? You seem to suggest we should because it's "none of our business".

What is so wrong about a business paying a fair day's wage for a fair day's work?

Silky

Don't worry I am starting a chimey sweep business next week, I have found some willing kids who like getting dirty and having an adventure, and it will keep them entertained and learn them a trade, doing some physical work oh and the best bit they haven't asked for any form of payment so i won't bring it up.

 

[Silky]

Hi Cornish Steve,
I agree ,a good post and I'm not blind to the fact that the girls enjoy being around the horses, albeit not quite having to work full days both Saturdays and Sundays in all weathers and in the cafe too.

The thing that irks me is that why is it seen as acceptable for the owners NOT to pay something in return? One girl leading a horse per day brings in a revenue of around £150 and yet the kids even have to buy their own uniforms with the stables' name on and don't even get free drinks or subsidised lunches in the very cafe they end up working in. I understand that time with a horse is seen as some kind of reward, the fact this would only work with a 9 year old girl and not an adult makes me feel uncomfortable.

To me this whole discussion is turning to principle - the law exists, and where do you draw the line? What kind of businesses qualify, which don't ? Or can we all simply use free children as we see fit?

Silky

 

[Silky]

Don't worry I am starting a chimey sweep business next week, I have found some willing kids who like getting dirty and having an adventure, and it will keep them entertained and learn them a trade, doing some physical work oh and the best bit they haven't asked for any form of payment so i won't bring it up.

Hey, will you take a 7 and 8 year old? They love muck and it'll keep them out of the house at the weekend and give them some exercise. Saves me the job ...

Silky

 

[Zeno]

The thing that still bothers me is that this is a private enterprise run for the owners profit. If it were a charity organisation than fine as the only people who would benefit would be the kids and the animals but essentially for every kid that they don't pay, that one more payment on their range rover.

 

[vision25]

???? No, you prefer to descend into insults. Sad tactic.

You said;

""There are lots of things children "may freely consent to" or believe they are "freely consenting to" when persuaded. ""

This *IS* a straw man because you know fullo well that children (by their very nature of not being adults) can't give informed consent. I am merely pointing out your incredible stupidity here.

The very reason they have laws to protect them ! This argument is becoming circular....

Rubbish.

The argument is this, you think they are being exploited (irrespective of the kids disagreeing with you) due to your own individual morality and not because it may be illegal.

So let me ask you again. What is so special about *YOU* that you want to curtail other peoples activities that have nothing to do with you.

Why are you being so authoritarian?

 

[vision25]

I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone, I've merely started a discussion on a forum - sorry if my views are different to yours. (Well actually having read your views, no I'm not).

The stables are doing something that you *AS AN INDIVIDUAL* disapprove of. You would like them to stop, and you would be happy to use the law to get your viewpoint acted upon.

After all, *YOU* think it's exploitation and *YOU* would be happy for the stables to stop doing it. Never mind that the people involved are quite happy and that their activities have no affect on you. You want them to stop. Go on admit it.

What is so wrong about a business paying a fair day's wage for a fair day's work?

They *ARE* paying a fair days wage.

The kids get to enjoy their horse fetish and the parents get the kids off their hands for the weekend.