Challenging the firm that owns the freehold of my house

[Deleted member 326123]

good day all,
Hope you can help. We live in a converted in 2 flats maisonnette and occupy the ground floor. Our neighbor occupies the first floor. The freehold is owned by a company which my partner is director of alongside my neighbor. My partner and I have a different understanding to our neighbor on the obligation of the company. I would like to go to the small court claim to get this difference evaluated by a judge but excluding my partner from the challenge on the company. In other word, I would like the company I will sue to be represented solely by the other director so their personal liability can be impacted. How to do this?
The claim is for less than £1000.00. Is there a step before filling in the N1 form?

THANKS SO MUCH for your help!

 

[kulture]

I would suggest that you stop and go see a solicitor. get them to explain limited liability, the purpose of diectors, and the potential pitfalls of having a property dispute when you try to sell your flat.

 

[Deleted member 326123]

Unfortunately, the other party will not settle on anything...I know the risks for selling but I need to escalate...by the way, I spent close to £40k on solicitor so far with no result...mad!!!!

 

[Mr D]

Unfortunately, the other party will not settle on anything...I know the risks for selling but I need to escalate...by the way, I spent close to £40k on solicitor so far with no result...mad!!!!

Perhaps a better solicitor needed?

 

[obscure]

I would like to go to the small court claim to get this difference evaluated by a judge but excluding my partner from the challenge on the company. In other word, I would like the company I will sue to be represented solely by the other director so their personal liability can be impacted. How to do this?

You can't.
Assuming that the company is a Limited company then neither Director can be held personally liable (unless they have done something criminal). Similarly you can't exclude your partner. If the company has acted illegally then both Directors would be responsible.

Maybe if you describe the actual problem then someone here can offer some advice.

I spent close to £40k on solicitor so far with no result...mad!!!!

Have you considered that maybe you didn't get anywhere because they are right and you are wrong?

 

[fisicx]

The obligations of the company are set out in the lease. If there is a dispute the courts won’t be interested. You can’t sue a director over this. You have wasted £40k

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Are you trying to tell us you spent 40k over a £1000 possible debt
You are reckless and out of control but it's your money

Stop being such a misery guts and take you neigbough around some Christmas cake
Why the helll do you need to be falling out with your neighbours

 

[DontAsk]

Are you trying to tell us you spent 40k over a £1000 possible debt
You are reckless and out of control but it's your money

Utter madness.

I think vindictive would be a better judgement "so their personal liability can be impacted"

 

[Mark T Jones]

Unfortunately, the other party will not settle on anything...I know the risks for selling but I need to escalate...by the way, I spent close to £40k on solicitor so far with no result...mad!!!!

Mad indeed. Either your solicitor is clueless or you aren’t listening to them, particularly as after all that tome and effort you still have no understanding of limited liability.

 

[Deleted member 326123]

Thanks all!
Yes mad!
£17k spent to be made shareholder of the company that owns the freehold as the director did not agree that we bought the share of freehold! We were proven right.
£20k spent on getting my partner registred as director as the other party refused it after we were made shareholder! We were proven right.
Now, our leases are defective and the other party insist theirs is correct. I totally disagree but currently the amount at stake is low, I do not want to incur an other 17k for 1k!!!
Hope this makes sense! If someone could help me,I would love it;
All I can do is to put pressure myself with court otherwise I will need to spend an other huge amount of money...

 

[fisicx]

Still utter madness. Spending all that money was bonkers.

 

[Deleted member 326123]

I agree it is bonkers but should I agree to not get my share of freehold because they refuse to reflect it in the company?
Should I forget my right to be director of the company so that we have a say in any expenditure made by the company? Or challenge it when necessary?
Should I agree their reading of the lease which is wrong ( according to lease advice service)?
I have a vindictive neighbour who just will not try to negotiate properly....
It is a mess.

 

[fisicx]

Why do you even need to be a shareholder and a director of the management company?

I’m a freeholder and the leaseholders aren’t part of the management company.

Why didn’t you challenge before you brought the property?

 

[Deleted member 326123]

Well, being shareholder is what makes us share of freeholder ( as opposed to just leaseholder) and director is to ensure the other party does not get things voted which commit shareholders ( us!) Without a say to challenge. They are troublemakers...

 

[John Hemming]

This looks like a situation where there are only two shareholders and hence potentially only two directors because it is a house that was converted into flats.

The best way forward is to for the joint owners of the free hold to get on with each other. There are many many disputes between neighbours which have cost vast sums of money. It is, however, often emotionally a bit difficult for people to get on with each other particularly once a dispute has escalated.

You probably would be best trying to find a mediator rather than taking legal action.

 

[fisicx]

@albator1981 That’s not how it works. As a leaseholder you can challenge the freeholder without being a shareholder or director. Because your partner is now a director he can be a culpable as the other director for any poor decisions.

 

[Deleted member 326123]

Thanks for the mediation advice. Tried but no success there....
I think/ hope a small court claim against the company ( both directors being answerable) at least will help with the of the correct reading of the lease imposed on them and make things easier.

 

[fisicx]

You still haven’t told us what the actual problem is.

 

[Deleted member 326123]

Sorry yes.
The current issue ( there are many still but the one I want focus on now) is that my window is rotten and the leases do not specifically define who is responsible for windows. Therefore, as per case law, if is freeholder responsibility.
Also, the cost split the freeholder can impose on the leaseholder is 50/50 on their lease, due proportion on mine. Their flat is twice bigger than ours at the moment.

So, repairing the window needs to be done and I want to enforce this is the freeholder to do it. I am using the disprrair protocol for that and self help with freeholder refuse to do it, effectively the neighbor refusing.
This will help to get some closure on a sensitive issue their way of mine but at leaste we will know where to stand. Our lease was signed first when tbe freeholder crested the leases for the 2 flats and tjeir flat was first to have been sold after the initial lease was granted ( which means their lease should be same as ours).
Does it make sense?

 

[Mr D]

Well, being shareholder is what makes us share of freeholder ( as opposed to just leaseholder) and director is to ensure the other party does not get things voted which commit shareholders ( us!) Without a say to challenge. They are troublemakers...

And if the other party makes decisions as a director you'd be stopping them how?

 

[Mr D]

Sorry yes.
The current issue ( there are many still but the one I want focus on now) is that my window is rotten and the leases do not specifically define who is responsible for windows. Therefore, as per case law, if is freeholder responsibility.
Also, the cost split the freeholder can impose on the leaseholder is 50/50 on their lease, due proportion on mine. Their flat is twice bigger than ours at the moment.

So, repairing the window needs to be done and I want to enforce this is the freeholder to do it. I am using the disprrair protocol for that and self help with freeholder refuse to do it, effectively the neighbor refusing.
This will help to get some closure on a sensitive issue their way of mine but at leaste we will know where to stand. Our lease was signed first when tbe freeholder crested the leases for the 2 flats and tjeir flat was first to have been sold after the initial lease was granted ( which means their lease should be same as ours).
Does it make sense?

You've spent all that money. For what?

 

[Deleted member 326123]

Well, a board of directors is needed with quorum so no directors can make a unilateral decision...

 

[Deleted member 326123]

Yes, probably I would have been better of not spending that money and loosing some of what I purchased ?

 

[Mr D]

Well, a board of directors is needed with quorum so no directors can make a unilateral decision...

And you'd be stopping them making decisions exactly how?

Sure, you can take civil action afterwards but from what you've said they aren't exactly running the company well anyway.

 

[fisicx]

The current issue ( there are many still but the one I want focus on now) is that my window is rotten and the leases do not specifically define who is responsible for windows.

It's probably your responsibility. The freeholder is usually responsible for the structure of the property not repair of doors and windows:
"Generally speaking, the responsibility for maintaining the structure of the building and completing any exterior repairs like painting of windows lies with the freeholder, or the management company if there is one. The responsibility for repairing parts of the individual property leased to them such as window hinges and locks, however, lies with the leaseholder."
https://www.redbrickpm.co.uk/blog/how-to-replace-windows-in-a-leasehold-flat/

Our lease was signed first when tbe freeholder crested the leases for the 2 flats and tjeir flat was first to have been sold after the initial lease was granted ( which means their lease should be same as ours).

The leases do not have to be the same.

Without seeing the lease nobody here can advise with certainty. If you go to court over this it's going to cost you a lot more than the £1000 you estimate is needed to replace the windows.

 

[John Hemming]

There is an additional point in that the freeholder generally charges the leaseholder for things. Hence if you can get through legal action the freeholder to repair your windows
a) You are likely to have to pay half of this
b) You are likely to also have to pay half of repairing any other windows in the other flat
c) You are likely to have to pay all of your legal costs and half of the freeholders legal costs.

It strikes me personally that it would be cheaper, faster and have less aggro for you to fix the windows yourself.

 

[MOIC]

I understand the motive and principal in the argument, but surely economics must play a part.

Life is too short for these protracted disagreements, especially when one side can use arguments to lengthen the eventual legal outcome.

Maybe it’s time to sell on and move on with your life as this episode seems to be eating you from the inside (and your pocket).

 

[John Hemming]

There is an additional and important point which is that it is really worth putting in effort to get on with neighbours. There may be a point at which the behaviour of a neighbour is so bad that regulatory action is required. However, most of the time it is worth putting extra effort into being on good terms. Neighbours are in the best situation to look out for each other such as phoning you when there appears to be a problem.

This may be difficult in where this dispute has got to, but it is good advice.

 

[Deleted member 326123]

Thanks all.
My worry is that the neighbor is good at changing side of the table when it suits him.
Refusing to pay half the cost of my windows then 2= years laters requesting freeholder to repair his windows....
I cannot sell as no one will buy with all these disputes I legally have to declare. Challenging in small court is way to minimise cost as I won’t use a solicitor..

 

[Mr D]

Thanks all.
My worry is that the neighbor is good at changing side of the table when it suits him.
Refusing to pay half the cost of my windows then 2= years laters requesting freeholder to repair his windows....
I cannot sell as no one will buy with all these disputes I legally have to declare. Challenging in small court is way to minimise cost as I won’t use a solicitor..

It would be simpler to get windows repaired like those people without a company involved will do.

 

[Deleted member 326123]

It has gone too far nOw, months of email arguing...I need to resolve it the proper way once and for all and never ever contact him...

 

[fisicx]

...and never ever contact him...

He and your husband are directors of the company. To run the company they need to remain in contact.

Taking legal action will not resolve anything.

 

[Mr D]

It has gone too far nOw, months of email arguing...I need to resolve it the proper way once and for all and never ever contact him...

Great, you will be able to feel closure.
An expensive way of having pride but its your money.

And the next time an issue comes up? Spend more money and time on legal action?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Once a plonker , always a plonker

As you both have a directorship 50/50 in the freehold company its a stalemate , neither you or the other party can do anything unless its agreed by both , so stop worrying about nothing, get some common sense and talk to each other.

Not talking to a solicitor does not seem to be sensible, as they could clearly explain fully the leasehold contract to you for little money and your options, but again you seem so fixed in your idea's you probably wont take advice anyway