CBILS - Changes are too little and too late

[Porky]

The changes to CBILS introduced have made little difference at ground floor level.

As a business that can’t secure even the basic council grant (falls through the gap) and now rejected by the bank under CBILS the outlook is very bleak. 24 staff are on the cusp of being a statistic.

Either the scheme needs to offer 100% guarantee or a scheme needs introducing outside of the banks to loan the money. Clearly it’s not working yet the government are deluding themselves by believing their own spin about how fantastic the packages are for SMEs - They are not.

I seriously would suggest something more radical like an off the shelf ready made package, pre agreed loan to business say 3 months wage roll repayable over 3 years at 10%pa.no questions asked or something similar.

We need to get cashflow loans into SMEs quick and from what I can’t see the scheme doesn’t work yet they are doing f all to fix it. By the time they finally wake up it will be too little too late.

Meanwhile Germany I hate to say it are really showing us how it’s done. I voted conservative at the election and feel really let down that they are promoting a loan scheme that doesn’t help anyone except larger companies that could probably secure a loan anyhow without the scheme, it’s at best a joke.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

The trouble is that many small companies basically already going bust would take the money and still go bust

You cannot just blame the banks and other lenders, they are businesses just like yours and if they loan the money they want it all back, just like you with your credit customers

They also know that at the end there will not be a switch back on for companies, but a gradual start up with probably low demand to start with and growth over a long period, so some staff will not be required

 

[SillyBill]

The changes to CBILS introduced have made little difference at ground floor level.

As a business that can’t secure even the basic council grant (falls through the gap) and now rejected by the bank under CBILS the outlook is very bleak. 24 staff are on the cusp of being a statistic.

Either the scheme needs to offer 100% guarantee or a scheme needs introducing outside of the banks to loan the money. Clearly it’s not working yet the government are deluding themselves by believing their own spin about how fantastic the packages are for SMEs - They are not.

I seriously would suggest something more radical like an off the shelf ready made package, pre agreed loan to business say 3 months wage roll repayable over 3 years at 10%pa.no questions asked or something similar.

We need to get cashflow loans into SMEs quick and from what I can’t see the scheme doesn’t work yet they are doing f all to fix it. By the time they finally wake up it will be too little too late.

Meanwhile Germany I hate to say it are really showing us how it’s done. I voted conservative at the election and feel really let down that they are promoting a loan scheme that doesn’t help anyone except larger companies that could probably secure a loan anyhow without the scheme, it’s at best a joke.

Can I just say I am very empathetic to your situation, and no advice forthcoming, I hope you find a way through. The government took a decision to shutdown large areas of the economy and businesses will fail because other businesses (banks) can't make a buck off the back of it. It is that simple. And it isn't nor will be any fault of your own. I am quite irritated for you guys that in some cases it is implied you are/were running failing businesses, no...this is an extraordinary intervention never seen before, not even in wartime. Many businesses can't be told to shutdown, loan the costs of doing so then re-open and pay the new and old costs as they fall due with interest. Hold your head up high and keep fighting.

 

[Mark T Jones]

I’m inclined to agree that 100% guarantee is the only way here. Possibly part grant and part loan - and definitely linked to so metric, possibly turnover or last 3 years corporation tax

The huge challenge we have that Germany doesn’t (to anywhere near the same extent) is that we have millions of micro- businesses some very much ‘real’ businesses others pi55y little MLMs or people selling random junk on EBay. Many aren’t able to survive the slightest blip so how do you decide who qualifies for support ?

 

[Mr D]

Yes its something of a joke.

Better if it was 100% government money. While its the banks money they have to look after it - which means turning down the ones of us they'd be likely to turn down prior to this.

Government offers a loan scheme - it works.
Badly from our point of view and has some have raised in the past, taking on debt isn't always a good solution to a financial problem.
Once this is all over the government and the banks will crow about how successful it was - while of course ignoring the businesses that could not or were unsuccessful in getting a loan.

Don't think any party would have been any better.

Its a bad situation with insufficient tools to deal with - and currently no end in sight to the problems here in the UK. We can try guessing when lockdown is reduced or cancelled, we can try guessing when isolation will be removed - but they are guesses.

 

[Awinner2]

How about this regarding Gov business grants (not the loans). On our Friday night local BBC. Grants are given out to businesses by their local authority, funded by Gov. 2 brothers with identical businesses, one in Grimsby, one in Boston so in different local authorities. One in Boston gets his grant of 25K no problem. Grimsby one is refused his 10K grant on the grounds that his car repair centre with tyres and exhausts is not A RETAIL business. He has appealed and is waiting on a further decision. So when is a business with premises that serves the public who go there for whatever not a retail business?

 

[Porky]

The trouble is that many small companies basically already going bust would take the money and still go bust

You cannot just blame the banks and other lenders, they are businesses just like yours and if they loan the money they want it all back, just like you with your credit customers

They also know that at the end there will not be a switch back on for companies, but a gradual start up with probably low demand to start with and growth over a long period, so some staff will not be required

Chris, we shouldn’t be restricting lending for the many on the premise that a small percentage of business could somehow abuse a loan facility. Also there are a percentage of business that could be loss making last year but going into profit this year and then hit by this nightmare, there are all kinds of reasons why businesses need cash flow support loans but nobody could budget for this one - what I’m saying is you can’t design a policy on why you shouldn’t lend.

At the moment we need to keep as many people employed as we can, if those businesses can’t get loans then those employees will be lost and the state will be picking up the tab, so frankly better to risk a small percentage of possible loan abuse than not lend at all as it currently stands and see the bulk of SMEs go under

 

[Mark T Jones]

Chris, we shouldn’t be restricting lending for the many on the premise that a small percentage of business could somehow abuse a loan facility. Also there are a percentage of business that could be loss making last year but going into profit this year and then hit by this nightmare, there are all kinds of reasons why businesses need cash flow support loans but nobody could budget for this one - what I’m saying is you can’t design a policy on why you shouldn’t lend.

At the moment we need to keep as many people employed as we can, if those businesses can’t get loans then those employees will be lost and the state will be picking up the tab, so frankly better to risk a small percentage of possible loan abuse than not lend at all as it currently stands and see the bulk of SMEs go under

just to be clear here - these won’t be small percentages

a reasonable percentage had no chance of surviving before Covid. A huge percentage won’t survive a recession with a hefty loan around their neck. Government will be looking at >60% write off on this

 

[Mr D]

At the moment we need to keep as many people employed as we can, if those businesses can’t get loans then those employees will be lost and the state will be picking up the tab, so frankly better to risk a small percentage of possible loan abuse than not lend at all as it currently stands and see the bulk of SMEs go under

Keep them employed - at what cost?

Is there a limit to the cost?

There comes a point at which businesses will be zombie ones - should be dead but kept alive by magical (government money tap) means.
How long should tap run for?

The moment its switched off we would then see what businesses are viable.

OK supposing government was to chuck more money at us (as they have been doing) - there is no guarantee that a business with xx customers on 1st March will have that many customers a month after lockdown finishes for them.
Government can try propping up businesses - meaning an even bigger bill to pay later - but at what point should the propping up be stopped?
Dunno about anyone else but I've no viable solution to offer to the treasury.

My brother in law has a business in an indoor market. Short season and he has to make his income for the year from that. He'd have already been trading by now.
He's on universal credit now - he'll have to skip this year and next year, maybe start trading in 2022. Isolated until vaccine produced.

 

[Porky]

How about this regarding Gov business grants (not the loans). On our Friday night local BBC. Grants are given out to businesses by their local authority, funded by Gov. 2 brothers with identical businesses, one in Grimsby, one in Boston so in different local authorities. One in Boston gets his grant of 25K no problem. Grimsby one is refused his 10K grant on the grounds that his car repair centre with tyres and exhausts is not A RETAIL business. He has appealed and is waiting on a further decision. So when is a business with premises that serves the public who go there for whatever not a retail business?

Totally agree, but equally I know a number of businesses that can’t get the grants for various other reasons either. In my case my RV is £18.5k so above the £10k grant scheme limit but doesn’t fit into the higher grant scheme as we are not classed as a pure Retail either. We employ 24 staff so imo we have just as many valid needs for the grant as others and would possibly argue more reasons than say the one man band gifted the £10k grant that doesn’t have anyone else on the payroll to worry about.

Frankly the grant scheme needs improving also but if they can get the CBILS right that would be a dam good start, 98% decline rate, who are they kidding? The scheme is not fit for purpose.

 

[marcus_bond]

The changes to CBILS introduced have made little difference at ground floor level.

As a business that can’t secure even the basic council grant (falls through the gap) and now rejected by the bank under CBILS the outlook is very bleak. 24 staff are on the cusp of being a statistic.

Either the scheme needs to offer 100% guarantee or a scheme needs introducing outside of the banks to loan the money. Clearly it’s not working yet the government are deluding themselves by believing their own spin about how fantastic the packages are for SMEs - They are not.

I seriously would suggest something more radical like an off the shelf ready made package, pre agreed loan to business say 3 months wage roll repayable over 3 years at 10%pa.no questions asked or something similar.

We need to get cashflow loans into SMEs quick and from what I can’t see the scheme doesn’t work yet they are doing f all to fix it. By the time they finally wake up it will be too little too late.

Meanwhile Germany I hate to say it are really showing us how it’s done. I voted conservative at the election and feel really let down that they are promoting a loan scheme that doesn’t help anyone except larger companies that could probably secure a loan anyhow without the scheme, it’s at best a joke.

I'm very sympathetic to those views... indeed I tend to agree with them... our experience of the business rates grant suggests it has been a poor way of targeting the right businesses.

I don't think the people at the top have the relevant experience, or are particularly good in a crisis like this... and I think others who may be involved in advising them, see the fallout from the crisis as an opportunity to accelerate some painful structural changes in the economy and citizens behavior.

Lending to the 'right' businesses, and not to the 'wrong' businesses in this crisis, is just such a pruning action, artificially amplifying the eventual winners and losers when the crisis ends.

Mark Carney's remarks at the American Pledge Report in December about lending to the right 'green' business ideas, and not lending to the wrong 'brown' business ideas by using new risk analysis techniques is the same type of stuff. In this crisis, where many businesses are under real threat, this process of picking winners and losers is really going to massively amplify the speed of such changes.

 

[Mr D]

I'm very sympathetic to those views... indeed I tend to agree with them... our experience of the business rates grant suggests it has been a poor way of targeting the right businesses.

I don't think the people at the top have the relevant experience, or are particularly good in a crisis like this... and I think others who may be involved in advising them, see the fallout from the crisis as an opportunity to accelerate some painful structural changes in the economy and citizens behavior.

Lending to the 'right' businesses, and not to the 'wrong' businesses in this crisis, is just such a pruning action, artificially amplifying the eventual winners and losers when the crisis ends.

Mark Carney's remarks at the American Pledge Report in December about lending to the right 'green' business ideas, and not lending to the wrong 'brown' business ideas by using new risk analysis techniques is the same type of stuff. In this crisis, where many businesses are under real threat, this process of picking winners and losers is really going to massively amplify the speed of such changes.

Civil servants who don't understand business taking advice from people - getting the wrong idea or focusing on the wrong elements. Then advising ministers.
Add in multiple lobbying bodies each with their own agenda muddying the waters.

Don't get me wrong, the grant idea was useful. Sure it has its flaws but as a method of relatively quickly getting money out there its workable.
Imagine if the whole help available for business was the bank loan scheme.... (shudder).

Just have to convince government of a grant scheme with other criteria.

 

[Porky]

Mr D

Keep them employed - at what cost?

Is there a limit to the cost?

There comes a point at which businesses will be zombie ones - should be dead but kept alive by magical (government money tap) means.
How long should tap run for?

The moment its switched off we would then see what businesses are viable.

OK supposing government was to chuck more money at us (as they have been doing) - there is no guarantee that a business with xx customers on 1st March will have that many customers a month after lockdown finishes for them.
Government can try propping up businesses - meaning an even bigger bill to pay later - but at what point should the propping up be stopped?
Dunno about anyone else but I've no viable solution to offer to the treasury.

My brother in law has a business in an indoor market. Short season and he has to make his income for the year from that. He'd have already been trading by now.
He's on universal credit now - he'll have to skip this year and next year, maybe start trading in 2022. Isolated until vaccine produced.

Mr D,
The tap is already switched off because the loan scheme is not lending so you can sit back and watch everything close down completely or we can at least try to save it?

If we don’t we end up in a UK where the only “viable” businesses left are Insolvency practitioners and debt collectors frankly oh and divorce Solicitors.

I would say, up to six months loan capital for wage roll for those businesses that need it to keep staff employed. If employees are earning they start spending, money starts flowing again. If business starts reopening in June and they can get CBILS support through to the end of the year, early 21 then hopefully by then a vaccine will be available and we will be back up and running.

We need to at least try, the sooner we are all up and trading the better but CBILS needs to work to cover that closed period and the window through to normality - it can be done, it is in Germany.

 

[Stas Lawicki]

On one hand you could criticise it as a mistake but the banks won't lend if they can't see the return. Similarly I think we will see tomorrow that far more opted for furlough. On the other, had furlough not been an option we would have seen more go to the wall.

I think I've said this before but sadly this is merely kicking the can down the road and lengthing the furlough period will only make more dependent on it. They can't carry this facility through a two or three year recession.

Perhaps something else can be shaped up and a cut off granted to reduce the losses about to hit. The problem is that companies generally don't have enough resilience to weather storms let alone major disruption like this. Those that do are benefitting from the facilties on offer above others as they present as less risk.

I'm not saying you and your business aren't deserving or should be overlooked - of course not. But unless there is some way of differentiation and ensuring those more viable than others get the support they need, the communal pot is going to be drained and the banks want no part of it - even at 20%!!

Will 100% backing help? Sure, in the short term, but the debt mountain will be even more frightening. The global corp debt mountain was 15trillion before the crisis - can you imagine how large it will be artificially pumped up and backed by governments?! Somebody has got to pay for all this and we certainly will down the line.

 

[Mr D]

Mr D


Mr D,
The tap is already switched off because the loan scheme is not lending so you can sit back and watch everything close down completely or we can at least try to save it?

If we don’t we end up in a UK where the only “viable” businesses left are Insolvency practitioners and debt collectors frankly oh and divorce Solicitors.

I would say, up to six months loan capital for wage roll for those businesses that need it to keep staff employed. If employees are earning they start spending, money starts flowing again. If business starts reopening in June and they can get CBILS support through to the end of the year, early 21 then hopefully by then a vaccine will be available and we will be back up and running.

We need to at least try, the sooner we are all up and trading the better but CBILS needs to work to cover that closed period

The loan scheme is lending. Just not to all the people who want it.
Be interested (eventually) to see what the actual loan award ration is. Low we expect, but how low?

Don't bet on a vaccine that soon. Possible - but speeding up process also reduces time to find problems. I figure 2 years for mass vaccination. Would not surprise me if its double that.

We end lockdown later this spring or summer. Then back on, then off, then on, then off.
Depending on the waves - three or four? A dozen?
Economy versus lives. Tough choice and blamed no matter what is done - wouldn't want to be in position of making such decisions!

There are no good choices. No good options. There are some merely less bad, for a given value of bad.

I fully agree more should be done. Then sort out the fallout afterwards - which will include killing off some businesses and a lot of unemployed.
A little badly thought out help now benefits the country (even if not benefitting you or I) more than a bigger perfect scheme government works to introduce in 3 years time instead.

 

[SillyBill]

Lending to the 'right' businesses, and not to the 'wrong' businesses in this crisis, is just such a pruning action, artificially amplifying the eventual winners and losers when the crisis ends.

Mark Carney's remarks at the American Pledge Report in December about lending to the right 'green' business ideas, and not lending to the wrong 'brown' business ideas by using new risk analysis techniques is the same type of stuff. In this crisis, where many businesses are under real threat, this process of picking winners and losers is really going to massively amplify the speed of such changes.

Good post. It is the continuation of crony corporatism that ails us and will continue to, capitalism has been getting nail after nail in the coffin. Small business is the bannermen of capitalism. And it gets an unfair hearing because we don't actually have it in a sustainable form. When the government frames policy response to picks winners, and big business seems to be a winner out of this one in a very big way, then what follows isn't capitalism as intended. Central banks since 2007 have become omnipotent meddlers where their constant and massive liquidity injection is causing unheard of wealth divide. None of that "money" ends up on Main Street. Ignore nominal indices values and on current COVID-19 earnings American stocks have never been valued so high - it is almost unbelievable if we weren't living it. The whole thing is cooked.

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

How about this regarding Gov business grants (not the loans). On our Friday night local BBC. Grants are given out to businesses by their local authority, funded by Gov. 2 brothers with identical businesses, one in Grimsby, one in Boston so in different local authorities. One in Boston gets his grant of 25K no problem. Grimsby one is refused his 10K grant on the grounds that his car repair centre with tyres and exhausts is not A RETAIL business. He has appealed and is waiting on a further decision. So when is a business with premises that serves the public who go there for whatever not a retail business?

Someone has misunderstood the grants in this situation. The £10k was never supposed to apply to specific sectors, it’s aimed at all businesses in receipt of small business rates relief.

 

[SillyBill]

On one hand you could criticise it as a mistake but the banks won't lend if they can't see the return. Similarly I think we will see tomorrow that far more opted for furlough. On the other, had furlough not been an option we would have seen more go to the wall.

I think I've said this before but sadly this is merely kicking the can down the road and lengthing the furlough period will only make more dependent on it. They can't carry this facility through a two or three year recession.

Perhaps something else can be shaped up and a cut off granted to reduce the losses about to hit. The problem is that companies generally don't have enough resilience to weather storms let alone major disruption like this. Those that do are benefitting from the facilties on offer above others as they present as less risk.

I'm not saying you and your business aren't deserving or should be overlooked - of course not. But unless there is some way of differentiation and ensuring those more viable than others get the support they need, the communal pot is going to be drained and the banks want no part of it - even at 20%!!

Will 100% backing help? Sure, in the short term, but the debt mountain will be even more frightening. The global corp debt mountain was 15trillion before the crisis - can you imagine how large it will be artificially pumped up and backed by governments?! Somebody has got to pay for all this and we certainly will down the line.

Fair to say you can't support much if this is a 2-3 yr recession. But on the subject of furloughing, the cost to the economy to create a job is greater than the cost to "maintain one". You can't print an economy, otherwise we would. If you lose a portion of the tax base then your ability to invest to get the tax base back...is what? Cue vicious circle which is trying to be avoided. I read a very good economic paper about France recently regarding lessons from the last recession and their current policy response. Conclusion being it did not act quickly or robustly enough to support companies outside of the finance industry (we know where the money went...) and then paid the price with c. 10 percent joblessness for 5+ years. And arguably never fully recovered to the extent others did. They followed the German model this time around, as most have done. The Germans kept their companies on life support by subsidising a very effective furlough scheme (Kurzarbeitergeld)l; they came out of the storm very quickly (less than a year) with their tax base intact. That is their theory in any case and sounds perfectly plausible to me as this isn't a typical recession in so far as it is government induced. The gov in reduced economic activity is getting exactly what it ordered. The rules of capitalism become slightly more complicated when the gov issues a "you must close" memorandum but you must continue to pay your bills (for the most part).

 

[Ed H]

And this my friends, is why so many people I know have returned to work, irrespective of what the govt or NHS say - People need money to live, and companies need money to survive, so Im afraid its steam on as before, and we will see where we get to. In short, despite all Rishis promises, it has pretty much come to zero for all the small businesses I know

 

[Karimbo]

what are the largest fixed costs for businesses? rent and payroll. Payroll is 80% paid for under the job retention scheme. The other big cost in rent and business rates. It wouldn't cost the taxpayer anything to tell commercial landlords to freeze rents and all mortgage companies (commercial and residential) to allow for mortgage holidays.

That would help businesses avoid 2 or 3 of their biggest expense. Most other costs are variable, costs go up based on sales.

I'd much rather have that as a solution than for government to dish out cash money for businesses to pay the banks and landlords.

We're all making sacrifices, the landlords and banks need to sacrifice some as well.

 

[Stas Lawicki]

It's a question of viability. I agree with a lot of the above but keeping a failed or failing business on any life support means its got to stop at some point. Germany is an entirely different economic structure to ours, plus we will have the uncertainty over the B word. That on top of everything else will add more fuel to the fire. Who has the 'facing realty...' quote on their signature @Mr D or is it @The Byre? The reality is we are going to lose a shed load of businesses over the coming couple of years. Are we better to jettison them now or tow them along?

Maybe this is happening before our eyes and is wrapped up as a bailout.

 

[SillyBill]

what are the largest fixed costs for businesses? rent and payroll. Payroll is 80% paid for under the job retention scheme. The other big cost in rent and business rates. It wouldn't cost the taxpayer anything to tell commercial landlords to freeze rents and all mortgage companies (commercial and residential) to allow for mortgage holidays.

That would help businesses avoid 2 or 3 of their biggest expense. Most other costs are variable, costs go up based on sales.

I'd much rather have that as a solution than for government to dish out cash money for businesses to pay the banks and landlords.

We're all making sacrifices, the landlords and banks need to sacrifice some as well.

If one good thing comes out of this crisis it is a property price re-calibration. Our obsession with real estate prices has slowly been strangling the productive economy in both residential and commercial for years. Eye watering debt to get onto the property ladder now = less money to spend consuming as you mortgage away your life for ever longer terms. And necessitates a higher wage for businesses to pay as their employees largest expense swells (all this does is feed the banks). So we're less competitive than countries with lower housing costs. On the commercial side an absurd rates system based on pie-in-the-sky rental valuations means we pay more than the French and Germans combined in commercial "property taxes". Again, killing our competitiveness. This level of mortgage debt and rent is nothing but stripping people of the right to gain meaningful capital themselves and keeping them in their place as debt slaves from cradle to grave.

 

[Mr D]

what are the largest fixed costs for businesses? rent and payroll. Payroll is 80% paid for under the job retention scheme. The other big cost in rent and business rates. It wouldn't cost the taxpayer anything to tell commercial landlords to freeze rents and all mortgage companies (commercial and residential) to allow for mortgage holidays.

That would help businesses avoid 2 or 3 of their biggest expense. Most other costs are variable, costs go up based on sales.

I'd much rather have that as a solution than for government to dish out cash money for businesses to pay the banks and landlords.

We're all making sacrifices, the landlords and banks need to sacrifice some as well.

Be nice if such things did happen.
Some mortgage companies are doing mortgage holidays. To suitable account holders.
That's those who meet criteria.

Of course we can do unofficial mortgage holidays - avoid paying it for 3 months. But there are charges.
Either way mortgage holiday isn't a great solution - still needs paying one way or another.

Freezing rents? Great - and the commercial landlords do what for income? Get government support to replace their frozen rent? Get government support to avoid having to do repairs for a year or two?
Or do you mean deferred rent? in which case still payable, additional debt the business has to deal with while trying to get customers and get money flowing.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Unfortunately this was entirely predictable. As a business owner who has applied for various conventional loans in the past, the administration time alone makes it absurd. Each bank will have at least 5 forms, the time in filling those out is ridiculous. Why not have a centralised database like for car insurance where you only have to do it once?

We banked on not being able to get any help from this, and our (rented) premises are too high to get rates relief. We’re left on our own.

We went down a different route and secured option on immediate funding so we could increase manufacturing against a % of future earnings. Of course whether you can do that depends on the sector you are in (we are e-commerce). We’ve already repaid it back and would use it again if required.

Basically assume no help and then if you get some it’s an unexpected bonus.

So many businesses are going to the wall.

 

[Mr D]

Unfortunately this was entirely predictable. As a business owner who has applied for various conventional loans in the past, the administration time alone makes it absurd. Each bank will have at least 5 forms, the time in filling those out is ridiculous. Why not have a centralised database like for car insurance where you only have to do it once?

We banked on not being able to get any help from this, and our (rented) premises are too high to get rates relief. We’re left on our own.

We went down a different route and secured option on immediate funding so we could increase manufacturing against a % of future earnings. Of course whether you can do that depends on the sector you are in (we are e-commerce). We’ve already repaid it back and would use it again if required.

Basically assume no help and then if you get some it’s an unexpected bonus.

So many businesses are going to the wall.

Some of those businesses will be able to start again immediately, some may be able to start again within a few years.
Making different mistakes, taking different risks. Or making all the same decisions because they were good decisions, except this virus.

 

[Richard Cole]

Finally some good news, I have heard this morning my CBILS loan has been approved. Had to jump through a few hoops to get it and in the end i opted to approach a small business loan lender who i have used before and my bank Santander. My reason for this is that i didn't hold out much hope for Santander offering me much, they had already turned down my application to extend my overdraft and it is impossible to even telephone them, still I applied again to them for CBILS just on the oft chance. I applied around 2 and half weeks ago from Santander online and had an email last night requesting more information. My other application to a small loans specialist who only lend to businesses in the West Midlands was made around 3 weeks ago, i also manage to get to speak to someone on the telephone and emails get returned. The application was a bit more in depth but just heard back i have been approved which is a huge relief to me as had a landlord who is refusing to offer a rent reduction etc. If anyone in West Midlands is in a similar position message me and I can give you a link to their website, not sure if i am allowed to plug them here.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Finally some good news, I have heard this morning my CBILS loan has been approved. Had to jump through a few hoops to get it and in the end i opted to approach a small business loan lender who i have used before and my bank Santander. My reason for this is that i didn't hold out much hope for Santander offering me much, they had already turned down my application to extend my overdraft and it is impossible to even telephone them, still I applied again to them for CBILS just on the oft chance. I applied around 2 and half weeks ago from Santander online and had an email last night requesting more information. My other application to a small loans specialist who only lend to businesses in the West Midlands was made around 3 weeks ago, i also manage to get to speak to someone on the telephone and emails get returned. The application was a bit more in depth but just heard back i have been approved which is a huge relief to me as had a landlord who is refusing to offer a rent reduction etc. If anyone in West Midlands is in a similar position message me and I can give you a link to their website, not sure if i am allowed to plug them here.

Well do me. It’s a fair point that these regional quango type operations are well worth approaching.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Why are landlords the bad ones, they still have cash flow issues and need bread on the table, How many companies would pay extra to help a landlord out of a problem in normall times, probably none

 

[Richard Cole]

Why are landlords the bad ones, they still have cash flow issues and need bread on the table, How many companies would pay extra to help a landlord out of a problem in normall times, probably none

There not necessarily the bad guys, in my local area a lot have offered to meet their tenants half way and share the burden of the cost and offered 50% rent reductions and allow monthly payments etc. but not all, my landlord is still insisting on all of the rent money, although he has offered for me to spread the cost over time. The trouble is that rent prices have been pushed up and up to the point that it is difficult to make a decent profit in the good times, when things take a turn for the worse, it next to impossible. Yes i have or will receive various grants but they will not go a long way, I have received £10K for one of my shops but the rent is just shy of £30K per year. When the lockdown hit I had most of my rent for March quarter but with cashflow suddenly turned off, I had to divert some of that money to wages, my own personal needs and urgent bills. Had the lockdown not have happened I would have been able to fulfill my obligations. I do agree that landlords should receive financial aid too as that would enable them to take the pressure of tenants struggling to pay the rent. Personally I think that the government should do more to address the problem of landlords and tenants affected by Covid 19, they have made a great start but have just kicked the problem down the line a few months. Its going to be touch and go for a lot of small firms come the June rent quarter day.

 

[Porky]

According to the FT Rishi is considering 100% guarantee on CBILS for loans up to £25k. Just shows how detached they are from running smaller companies.

I guess it’s a start, put another zero on the limit and we might have something. Frankly, I think he should go “all in” and properly back all U.K business:-

1. Extend the council grant scheme so that ALL small business that are closed with rates <50k get at least the £10k grant - no gaps in the scheme. Giving one man bands with a shed £10k whilst declining a small business with 25 staff makes no sense at all to me.

2. Stop messing about, offer 100% loans to business up to £250k to businesses providing they could previously demonstrate affordability before the downturn.

Biggest criticism from me of this government is they are constantly being reactive to problems rather that pro-active. It was blindingly obvious from the start that banks wouldn’t step up on CBILS.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Why are landlords the bad ones, they still have cash flow issues and need bread on the table, How many companies would pay extra to help a landlord out of a problem in normall times, probably none

fair point as an opener it’s understandable to point, blame and play the victim.

however it’s a dreadful negotiating stance, I always suggest to anyone negotiating payment holidays that they try to u defat and the circumstances of the other party; it makes for far better negotiation

 

[Mr D]

According to the FT Rishi is considering 100% guarantee on CBILS for loans up to £25k. Just shows how detached they are from running smaller companies.

I guess it’s a start, put another zero on the limit and we might have something. Frankly, I think he should go “all in” and properly back all U.K business:-

1. Extend the council grant scheme so that ALL small business that are closed with rates <50k get at least the £10k grant - no gaps in the scheme. Giving one man bands with a shed £10k whilst declining a small business with 25 staff makes no sense at all to me.

2. Stop messing about, offer 100% loans to business up to £250k to businesses providing they could previously demonstrate affordability before the downturn.

Biggest criticism from me of this government is they are constantly being reactive to problems rather that pro-active. It was blindingly obvious from the start that banks wouldn’t step up on CBILS.

Risk for government is backing businesses that are zombies. Turn off the tap later and ….
Though making government responsible for 100% rather than 80% should mean more loans given as its not the bank's money.

No reason to have a limit of 50k, make it all businesses that way catching more in the net.

 

[Mark T Jones]

According to the FT Rishi is considering 100% guarantee on CBILS for loans up to £25k. Just shows how detached they are from running smaller companies.

I guess it’s a start, put another zero on the limit and we might have something. Frankly, I think he should go “all in” and properly back all U.K business:-

1. Extend the council grant scheme so that ALL small business that are closed with rates <50k get at least the £10k grant - no gaps in the scheme. Giving one man bands with a shed £10k whilst declining a small business with 25 staff makes no sense at all to me.

2. Stop messing about, offer 100% loans to business up to £250k to businesses providing they could previously demonstrate affordability before the downturn.

Biggest criticism from me of this government is they are constantly being reactive to problems rather that pro-active. It was blindingly obvious from the start that banks wouldn’t step up on CBILS.

being contentious, i’d stick with the borrower stumping up the 20%. It would filter out a lot of the greedy/lazy applications

 

[Porky]

being contentious, i’d stick with the borrower stumping up the 20%. It would filter out a lot of the greedy/lazy applications

Actually Mark, that is not a bad idea providing it’s a simple one page application online with a rapid turnaround - that really could work.

Banks application process is such a nightmare, Waiting weeks for decisions is also killing the flow of loans.

I know many businesses that need the loans that have been put off by the bank from applying in the first instance as non qualifying, effectively they are a declined loan but not included in the declined loans figure as the application hasn’t “officially” been designated as such

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

My landlord at the office has been amazing actually. Offering me some of their grant money when I could get any. We get regular payment holidays anyway as he’s not too on the ball with invoicing. Pretty relaxed.

Landlord at the house is fine as well. Got in touch with me a few weeks back asking if I was managing ok. Saying thanks for continuing to keep paying rent.

Landlords are in a difficult position here - if they ask for a payment holiday on their mortgage or loan before the tenant has indicated any issues, they would be accused of taking advantage. They really need to wait until a tenant gets in touch with them asking for a holiday before they can then request on themselves, which adds time to the whole thing. Tenants may not get in touch until the 11th hour and then they don’t have that time. I don’t envy them, and I’m glad I’m not a landlord any more!