Can't any web developer provide affordable small business websites?

[TitanWebsites]

Hi All,

I recently wrote an article "Can't any web developer provide affordable small business websites?".

My position is:

We don't think so. In our opinion every web developer has a specific skill set, optimised for the creation of websites they specialise in, obviously some larger web development companies will employ staff with a ranging skill sets, but with larger overheads, it can be hard for them to provide affordable web solutions to small businesses.

This is purely a discussion point, so please keep it polite.

There is more to the article, but it is a bit self promotional, so I have left it out, <edit by mod>

I look forward to the polite comments (on the question/quote above).

Thanks

 

[Esk247]

You need to define 'small business'

is that an ecommerce based business? if so the costs may be higher.

if it is a small guest house in Yorkshire, the costs for a website need not be prohibitive. A designer can put together a package for a couple of hundred including hosting and domain, is that classed as affordable? i'd think it was.

 

[TitanWebsites]

You need to define 'small business'

is that an ecommerce based business? if so the costs may be higher.

if it is a small guest house in Yorkshire, the costs for a website need not be prohibitive. A designer can put together a package for a couple of hundred including hosting and domain, is that classed as affordable? i'd think it was.

According to good old wikipedia the EU def is <50.

But it is all still relative. Ecommerce or not. Everyone comes with a budget, and you would expect a small business budget to be lower.

It is all going to be a bit general, in something like this there will never be one rule completely fits all.

The statement is more along the lines of a business specialising in affordable small business websites, is better positioned to do so that a developer specialising in a different area.

 

[Faevilangel]

Ultimately it's all down to a 2 things.

1) Customer expectations
2) The developers skill / ambitions (I know loads of freelance developers who won't touch sites for less than £5k).

I knock out cheap sites because I enjoy working on sites for small businesses as they are generally better payers (no accountancy departments etc) and you talk to the owners rather than 25th in command.

The guys who only work on large corporate sites will have decided that we don't have the time / ambition to work on small sites, we would rather have 10 £5k jobs than 100 £500 jobs.

 

[Multi-MixHosting]

I believe there are individuals out there who can provide "affordable" small business websites, But maybe they don't advertise them selves, so you may find you need to really search for them.

Think about it, would they really want to advertise them self doing affordable small business websites? They would get overwhelmed with requests, even from bigger companies that are trying to get a good price for their website.

So I guess my opinion is that there are people out there, just not showcasing themselves as much as bigger companies.

 

[profscooter]

I'd certainly class myself as a provider of web sites at the cheaper end, most in the low hundreds of pounds, with most business coming from within my local area through word of mouth, cheap local advertising and through previous clients. Finding providers at this end of the market can be hard though, as for example it's hard to get a decent spot on Google Adwords as all the big design agencies fill up the top slots for web design related terms. I'd agree that I prefer to work on more smaller projects than fewer large ones though.

 

[ITsoldUK]

As a web developer I provide sites that come in a lot cheaper than design agencies but would cost a bit more than a BC*, but that is only the start of the equation from my stand point.

Why?

Simple really...

I am a developer not a designer so I offer pre-designed themes from various reputable sources, offer them up for approval BEFORE I start work and then develop (or customise) them to meet the clients expectations. This reduces the project time considerably thus reducing the cost.

The base cost starts to rise as the clients scope is met. Namely extra functionality, coding requirements and all the other core bits and pieces that may well be requested to be added on.

These are all factored in and applied using my hourly rate. This is the beast that a self employed person has to consider....the cost of completing the job.

A normal timeline for a 'core' website developed by me would only be 1 week and as such this would be reflected in the price and as such, the complete project price would be reflected by the above mentioned add-ons. In some cases, work can take upwards of 2-3 months and the cost must reflect the time spent.

In short, can a website be delivered cheaply (and effectively, not the £50 for 10 page merchants that just hack a free template) then yes, but define affordable.

One man might say £1000 is affordable, but another may say no, I mean £100.

My time is valuable to me and as such this value is applied to all projects.

If a SMB owner invests £££'s into his hardware, stock etc then surely a reciprocal investment is required for his website (a business asset) for this to be delivered in a professional manner up to the expected standard for the price paid.

For my mind, I did not study for 5 years just to give away my expertise and my charges reflect this.

I do not, and never will compete on price, that is my choice. My service is my offering and all my clients also have the choice to use me or not...

*BC = Bedroom charlie. The have a go merchant who thinks he can do the job without experience, training or qualifications and charges 10 bob an hour "coz I did one for me mate" brigade.

HTH

Regards
Daren

 

[edmondscommerce]

I put together a couple of sites for friend's small businesses on saturday morning over a single cup of coffee.

shared hosting + wordpress autoinstaller + theme (installed via admin, wordpress is sweet like that) + a few choice extensions + a little bit of design tweaking (header image) and thats it.

He is going to sort out the content himself and he's away.

But that is a very simple brochure type site with no transactional functionality, no order processing etc etc.

cost = a few beers

using the right tools and cutting corners where possible can save a lot of cash

I'm with you on not competing on price though. We bill a fixed amount for our time.

What we will do is suggest ways of doing things that can save time and therefore cost.

 

[ITsoldUK]

100% agree Joseph.

The key point I try and operate to is 'best advice'.

Sometimes my offerings don't fit their needs or budget so would suggest other services/solutions if it best suits the clients needs and of course, we can all do free sites (and have done) but too many and there ain't no jam kids...

 

[UKSBD]

The thing is there are still so many businesses out there who don't need flashy expensive websites but who are talked in to them by mentors, marketing experts, website designers, etc.

All they really need are £200 Wordpress mini-sites which thet can expand on at any time.

 

[fisicx]

The thing is there are still so many businesses out there who don't need flashy expensive websites but who are talked in to them by mentors, marketing experts, website designers, etc.

All they really need are £200 Wordpress mini-sites which thet can expand on at any time.

Absolutely.

If you are have a small bizthen you may only need a portal to advertise your services and promote special offer and the like. a £50 Mr Site will do the job.

I'm currently working with a business that spent thousands on a website. It has all sorts of funky features but it's almost unusable and has a very high bounce rate. All they actually need is a webite to promote the company and some contact details as all their business is offline.

So yes, many designers can put together a suitable small business website for well under £200 and do very well out the many referrals they get as a result.

 

[Baz Watkins]

I think what's considered affordable is what makes the difference. I build really affordable websites, and I get phonecalls from small businesses who are happy to spend thousands advertising on local papers, but balk at £250 or £400 for a website.

If you do a 5 minute Giggle search you will find hundreds of cheap website designers, the problem arises in the fact that most small businesses want bespoke for the price of a toaster.

For example, I had a package running all last year, 4 pages site with content seo and various other little bits of service on Joomla for less than the cost of cheap laptop, and every customer who was interested wanted to deviate from the spec but were offended that it would cost more.

In the end, most potential customers I have dealt with recently can't equate a websites value, they can't get past the price, however cheap you are, and no amount of educating changes that.

I'm going away from the cheapo market, because its way too much hassle, potentials seem to value the work as some form of minimum wage skill, so want to pay accordingly, and no amount of skill range will get past that.

Potentials don't think web design is hard or takes skill or knowledge, because everyone can do it. They will pay a mechanic £15, £20, £40 an hour to repair their car, or a plumber £100 an hour to fix pipes, but a web designer, who writes seo copy, designs the graphics and markets post build, well thats easy and must be worth only £150 for 30 hours work.

B*ll*cks to the cheapskates...grrr...lol.

 

[UKSBD]

but a web designer, who writes seo copy, designs the graphics and markets post build, well thats easy and must be worth only £150 for 30 hours work.

That's my whole point.

There are loads of small businesses who don't even want that.

They don't need a web designer, an seo copywriter, someone to do graphics and marketing.

They just want a bog standard Wordpress install with 5 pages, which they provide the content for.

All the other stuff comes afterwards, when you have gained their trust.

And why should they pay much more than £10 an hour for a bog standard wordpress site?

 

[TitanWebsites]

I don't agree that really cheep sites are OK for Small Businesses, one man bands, people working from home etc may be, but even as a small business you need to look professional, what you invest on your website say a lot about you.

If you are not prepared to invest a little in a website, why would your customer have the confidence to invest on your product.

We employ both developers and designers, which means we are in the position to deliver most types of website and have them looking good. We have done websites from a few hundred to +£15K.

But as someone said earlier in the thread, at the lower level you are talking to the boss, you can really make things happen, and that's where we like it.

We also frequently use the Joomla platform, we have access to loads of professional designed templates for a quick starting point, but rarely do they go unmodified in some way or another. But even with redesigns and tweaking (assuming there are not specialist requirements, and it is not massive) we still usually come in a the mid to high hundreds.

Fortunately we are starting to see a change in attitude towards websites (at the SMB level), or we are getting better at picking our clients. Most now seem to understand that they need to invest, and it is important to have a website in line with your brand identity/corporate image. We are also finding as we work with new starts too that some are letting the design of the website be the starting point for their brand identity.

I think whilst recessions are on, you need to do all you can to stand out from the crowd, every penny spent at the moment is harder earned, so people want to make sure they are getting value for money and a good product. If you have a shabby website, it suggests you are just not going to deliver. (IMO anyway).

I am glad to see on the whole we mostly agree. I expected to see more people rubbishing the statement.

Thanks for your comments.

 

[TitanWebsites]

That's my whole point.

There are loads of small businesses who don't even want that.

They don't need a web designer, an seo copywriter, someone to do graphics and marketing.

They just want a bog standard Wordpress install with 5 pages, which they provide the content for.

All the other stuff comes afterwards, when you have gained their trust.

And why should they pay much more than £10 an hour for a bog standard wordpress site?

Why pay at all. If you are not interested in a designed website, and happy to say you are not interested in the image of your company, there is no point in paying anyone. There are cheap off the self solutions out there for that.

£10 a hour "suggest" you are just not very good at what you do or you are just starting out, so it will either take you much longer to do the same thing as a pro (so no saving) or you are not likely to be very good at it. Please note I am saying it suggests this (not that this is the reality).

In all honesty if someone is good a putting attractive website together, that work well, conform to the standards etc, they are not going to be paid £10 for long, that why there are not many good £10 p/h web designers/developers out there. And as I said earlier in this post, there are many off the shelf solutions that will work as well (if not better) for less money, if you just want something quick and well standard looking.

Surely it is invest to look that part, or just get something one the web, no?

If you don't agree, have you got an example of a business that doesn't need a good looking website, tied into their corporate brand, who is a small business (not a one man band or a micro business <6).

 

[Baz Watkins]

Ok, fair point, but then we are not talking affordable, we are talking cheap and basic.

A standard free worpress site with no customisation, no copy editing and no design work will cost you about £50 to £150, but for that you get back exactly what you give in content, all the designer does is copy and paste, so whats the point.

You might as well do it yourself then pass it over to a web host to manage the install. Your question isnt asking for a designer, or a business, its asking for non skilled labour.

As for gaining the clients trust, if you charge £50 to build the website, they're going to expect to pay the same for everything else you do, so if they want an ecommerce extension, and you say thats gonna be £800 they'll pass out.

If you want a website done properly you pay for the skill set, if you want a website online, get some bananas and go to the zoo.

That's my whole point.

There are loads of small businesses who don't even want that.

They don't need a web designer, an seo copywriter, someone to do graphics and marketing.

They just want a bog standard Wordpress install with 5 pages, which they provide the content for.

All the other stuff comes afterwards, when you have gained their trust.

And why should they pay much more than £10 an hour for a bog standard wordpress site?

 

[UKSBD]

Ok, fair point, but then we are not talking affordable, we are talking cheap and basic.

A standard free worpress site with no customisation, no copy editing and no design work will cost you about £50 to £150, but for that you get back exactly what you give in content, all the designer does is copy and paste, so whats the point.

The point is, that is perfectly adequate for thousands of small businesses.

If I'm a small local gardener with 20 or 30 regular customers I don't need to spend anymore than £200 on a website, I don't really need a website at all, but if I can get one made for about £100 why not?

And there are a hell of a lot of people like this out in the real world rather than our internet world.

 

[UKSBD]

(not a one man band or a micro business <6).

They're the sort of people I'm talking about

 

[TitanWebsites]

The point is, that is perfectly adequate for thousands of small businesses.

If I'm a small local gardener with 20 or 30 regular customers I don't need to spend anymore than £200 on a website, I don't really need a website at all, but if I can get one made for about £100 why not?

And there are a hell of a lot of people like this out in the real world rather than our internet world.

Your example is for a one man band/micro buisness, not a small business.

And why would this person get a website anyway? I can see no real benefit.

Anyway, this is getttig off subject, the question was "Can't any web developer provide affordable small business websites?", not who should employ an "affordable small business web developer". That's a whole different question.

 

[fisicx]

Anyway, this is getttig off subject, the question was "Can't any web developer provide affordable small business websites?"

Yes.

Wordpress install, set up theme, bung in a few plugins and job done.

It all depends on the business and the needs of the potential client. Many small business only need a point of contact so a simple site suffices.

A small business serving a local community or niche market doesn't need a flashy site. In fact there is a growing trend for very simple sites; the less frills they have the more usable and ccessible they are on mobile devices.

 

[Simon James]

... if I can get one made for about £100 why not?

You can get themes for content management systems like Wordpress, Joomla or Drupal from somewhere like ThemeForest, where they have nice modern looking themes from less than $10.

If you want a bit more user friendliness and control in setting up the back end then something like a StudioPress theme, which works on the Genesis framework for WordPress, will set you back about $80 (£50).

...but it all depends on how "hands on" you want to be. And the real costs come from hosting fees (which might be a low monthly, but they mount up over time), general housekeeping & security backups, upgrades to new releases of WordPress, plug-ins, etc.

Hell, you can do your own conveyancing for about £50, but as with all things in life, who has the time or inclination? Small business owners need to decide whether they spend their valuable free time learning all this stuff, or use that time carrying out core business activities.

They also need to understand that their website should be treated as an asset and their internet marketing activities should be regarded as a "cost of sales" rather than an "expense".

If all you want is a "brochure" website, save yourself the aggro and instead get someone on Fiverr to put together an e-brochure that be emailed to prospects who request it, or can be downloaded.

 

[S-Marketing]

These threads do make me laugh. We get the members who not so long ago were asking for marketing help as they don't know how to market their businesses, justifying their prices by telling us they not only do the code, but tell clients how to market their businesses. These are usually the kind of members who will be offering seo services, and in another thread be asking the most basic of seo questions. Exactly the same goes for copy writing.

From what I have read I would say this forum only has a handful of web guys with a decent grasp on marketing, copywriting and seo. Taking advice on any of these subjects from 95% of web designers would be a mistake.

To those designers who do give advice in these matters, i hope you have adequate professional indemnity insurance.

 

[woodss]

As a freelancer who's done his fair share of projects, as well as worked for nigh on 10 years in both the digital agency capacity, and in a web role in other industries, I think a lot of people are missing something here.

There is a difference between a web presence, and a website which actively works to promote your business and products.

Web Presence
The people who are offering 50 quid websites are not going to help promote your business, they are merely giving you 'something' to point your customers at when they come to you from other avenues, such as adverts, meetings etc. Perhaps a brief introduction to your company, a couple of product photos and a contact form (or maybe just an e-mail link). You'll get a theme which vaguely suits your logo (if you have one) and that's it. A stagnant site that sits there like a business card. Nothing wrong with that, but you're not going to get anything else.

Proper Website
A proper website can't be built in a few hours for 50 quid. Sorry, shush - it just can't. Unless you live at home with mummy, or enjoy living in a poverty trap whilst you bleat about more expensive web designers being a waste of money to anyone breeding dust and moths in their purse who will listen.

Aside from anything else, you need to have at least one meeting with the client to discuss the purpose of the website. Presumably, you'll need to spend money getting to said meeting which eats into your 50 quid straight away. You do actually MEET clients, right? To talk about their business needs? Right??

Taking the example earlier in the thread, a guesthouse can be one of two things: a web presence, or a proper website which works to get you business. You'll want photographs, the ability to update with new ones, perhaps a sample menu. You should probably think about setting up some sort of online booking form which ties in with an availability calendar for each of your rooms. Oh yes, sure there are things that can be showhorned into WordPress to do this but dammit, you're going for quality here - if it doesnt match your impeccably presented branding and colours straight off the bat, you're going to have to spend time editing the stylesheets, making sure the sizing is nice - making it set the tone of the establishment.... you get the idea. Then you have SEO to target your market, analysis of competitors etc etc.

The point is, none of this can be done properly for 50 quid. You need to invest money and to be honest, where's the harm in that? Which guesthouse would you choose to stay at if faced with their websites side by side - the one with the crappy WordPress site that looked like it was pieced together by several morons between X-Box live games, or one that had obviously had time and money invested in it, like any healthy business should?

You wouldn't open a nice italian restaurant, and stick flourescent, handwritten special offer notices in the window would you? No, you'd spend some cash and get some nicely printed ones, or spend some money on a signwriter to give you a nice pleasant in-fitting chalkboard. Although if your italian restaurant is called "Mario's Greasy Spag Bol Salmonella Specials" you may not. It's all about your target market.

You get it, right? By all means - spend £50 - £200 on a new web presence. When you're ready to have it work for you and your business, open your wallet and invest in your future.

 

[RoseRover]

To build on the last couple of points, a lot of businesses I speak to get a website because it's what you do nowadays. However, ask them what they are expecting it to do for their business, they either can't answer the question or have unreasonable expectations - it's a one off cost plus a bit of hosting that will miraculously bring them business.

I went to an excellent talk this morning which touched on this very subject and it should come down to value rather than price. As the speaker said, competing on price is lazy marketing.

There will always be companies shouting about how cheap their websites are (there's even one round here that says they get you a grant to build your website for free but then lock you into a 'hosting' charge of £30 per month and a 5 year contract!) but good companies will look at the value they are providing to the customer.

 

[UKSBD]

You get it, right? By all means - spend £50 - £200 on a new web presence. When you're ready to have it work for you and your business, open your wallet and invest in your future.

That again is my whole point.

There are thousands of small businesses who just want a web presence and not a proper website, the £200 version is perfect for them as a starter, they can always expand and add new features as they grow.

With something like 50% of new businesses folding within the first 12 months, it seems crazy that they all go out and spend £2k - £5k on a website. (no prize for the predictable reply)

 

[bdw]

I don't really need a website at all, but if I can get one made for about £100 why not?

Because you don't need to waste £100?

A small business serving a local community or niche market doesn't need a flashy site. In fact there is a growing trend for very simple sites

Citation required. :|

IMO and that of most designers attractive sites are more likely to catch people's attention. Nowadays, if I arrive at a website that is very basic, has no graphics and it looks like it has been thrown together by a total amateur I tend to hit the back button pretty quickly. If it looks like a cheap solution it looks to me that it is a company with no money and no resources.

You wouldn't open a nice italian restaurant, and stick flourescent, handwritten special offer notices in the window would you?

Couldn't have put it better myself.

.

 

[TitanWebsites]

That again is my whole point.

There are thousands of small businesses who just want a web presence and not a proper website, the £200 version is perfect for them as a starter, they can always expand and add new features as they grow.

With something like 50% of new businesses folding within the first 12 months, it seems crazy that they all go out and spend £2k - £5k on a website. (no prize for the predictable reply)

Aw go on, give me a prize!

Here we go "Perhaps if they had invested in their website they would not have gone out of business".

Anyway who said anything about £2k-£5k.

But we are still way off topic!

 

[UKSBD]

"You wouldn't open a nice italian restaurant, and stick flourescent, handwritten special offer notices in the window would you?"

Likewise if I'm
"Joe Blogs local lawnmower man - lawns mowed at £10 an hour"

I wouldn't want a website that gave the impression I was "Alan Titmarsh garden designer - at £150 an hour"

 

[TitanWebsites]

Realistically investing in your company image is important.

You need the right tools, and you need to look the part.

For most businesses these days that includes a website, that accurately represents their businesses.

If you put up a website that clearly has little time and effort invested in it, it suggests this is how you feel about your business. AND if you don't care about your business why should your customers.

Customers need to be wooed, if you stand there and say "this is what I got, take it or leave it" most will leave. If you use the "Look at my lovely lovely <insert your product/company here>" approach people are at least more likely to stop, look and listen.

IMO it's common business sense!

P.s. I give up trying to get this back on topic!

 

[woodss]

"You wouldn't open a nice italian restaurant, and stick flourescent, handwritten special offer notices in the window would you?"

Likewise if I'm
"Joe Blogs local lawnmower man - lawns mowed at £10 an hour"

I wouldn't want a website that gave the impression I was "Alan Titmarsh garden designer - at £150 an hour"

Maybe not, but you might want something better than Bob Jones' website that he got for 50 quid from a bloke at the pub... like I say, it's about the image you want to portray (and you always want to portray yourself as better than your competitors, right?).

 

[TitanWebsites]

"You wouldn't open a nice italian restaurant, and stick flourescent, handwritten special offer notices in the window would you?"

Likewise if I'm
"Joe Blogs local lawnmower man - lawns mowed at £10 an hour"

I wouldn't want a website that gave the impression I was "Alan Titmarsh garden designer - at £150 an hour"

Yes but:

He is not a small business!

He would probably benefit from spending the nominal £50 on posters etc and doing local advertising, or dropping through letterboxes. Not spending it on a website.

Your argument just doesn't hold water. Every time you have put up an example where the sole trader/micro buisness should not be investing in a website, not they should get a cheep cr*ppy one.

Give us an example of a business employing say 7 full time staff, whos company reputation will not be damaged by a rubbish website. WHO ACTUALLY NEEDS A WEBSITE!

 

[Websitehandyman]

Well I don't class myself as a developer, although I do a bit of code and more graphics I don't call myself expert in both. But a basic site is well within my skill set and as for "can" I actually do sites for free for the right sort of project.

So the answer is yes I've done hundreds of "affordable" sites. But the is far more to running a business on like then just having any old site done.

 

[fisicx]

P.s. I give up trying to get this back on topic!

That the way a forum wanders.

A website designer is not responsible for the content. They are not responsible for wooing the customer or even the conversion process. They can advise if it's in the remit but if the client want a pink site with green text and <marquee> then that's up to them.

I can deliver an afforadble website. If they then choose to fill it with garbage hten that's up to them. The actual layout is only a tiny part of the conversion process, content and information flows are bay far the most important part and thets not the remit of a website designer.

 

[Baz Watkins]

Lets put this all into context, my mate has just paid for an ad in the local rag, it cost him £100 for a 3 x 2 inch peice of the page for 1 week.

He will see no return from that, but he's doing what thousands of micro and small businesses do, he spends on the standard old school marketing outlets, so flyers, business cards and paper ads.

In the end its all about value and a huge range of micro and small businesses still don't see the value of a decent website as they are still blinkered to the old way of marketing a business. They will spend £500 to £1,000 a year on print marketing, but can't see the value gain in spending £300 to £1,000 on a 365/52/7 website that has been built to capture prospects.

Day after day I spend time talking to potentials about the value and the return that can be generated even for the smallest spend, and yet they either think your trying to swindle them on cost (The fabled best mates son can do it for £50) or bamboozle them with tech speak, even though all you've stated is blatant common sense.

Website design is considered a minumum wage skill for many small business owners, and they don't see the value when compared to the cost, and yet they will happilly hand over wads of cash for print ads that will be ignored by 99% of readers.

 

[bdw]

The actual layout is only a tiny part of the conversion process, content and information flows are bay far the most important part and thets not the remit of a website designer.

The website designer must ensure that the content and information is valid and presented in a way that visitors can find it.

Very few of my clients have much idea about what content is required for a website. I spend lots of time assisting clients with this and I see it as part of my remit. I am sitting here right now writing additional content for a self catering apartment and not charging any extra for it because what has been provided is not good enough.

If a client provides poor content for a website I am not just going to stick it up there when I know how it can be improved and optimised

Incidentally this is what people pay for when they go for a proper website designer.

.

 

[bdw]

Day after day I spend time talking to potentials about the value and the return that can be generated even for the smallest spend, and yet they either think your trying to swindle them on cost (The fabled best mates son can do it for £50) or bamboozle them with tech speak, even though all you've stated is blatant common sense.

You are 100% correct Baz, I have the t-shirt!

 

[woodss]

That the way a forum wanders.

A website designer is not responsible for the content. They are not responsible for wooing the customer or even the conversion process. They can advise if it's in the remit but if the client want a pink site with green text and <marquee> then that's up to them.

I can deliver an afforadble website. If they then choose to fill it with garbage hten that's up to them. The actual layout is only a tiny part of the conversion process, content and information flows are bay far the most important part and thets not the remit of a website designer.

If you're providing a website without even seeing the content that goes on it, you might as well have not bothered.

The website should be built around the content, not the other way around.

And THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is the difference between a website and a good website.

 

[wardey]

My client base is primarily comprised of small businesses (for web site development, IT support and Cloud products and services). In answer to your question, yes ! There is no reason why quality should be compromised by the size of the Client's business. also, when a small business commissions a web site to be designed and built, they have to be realistic in what they want delivered within a budget they can afford.

Bespoke, quality web site design, build and deployment is easily within the reach of a small business budget and there are many of us out there willing to undertake the commission.

 

[Websitehandyman]

If you're providing a website without even seeing the content that goes on it, you might as well have not bothered.

The website should be built around the content, not the other way around.

And THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is the difference between a website and a good website.

That's very old school, what's driving smaller websites now is the requirement for social networking. And I'm yet to see a blog content before I make blog.

I think the site should fit around the business and replicate it's current profile & personality. I also think some companues make a big mistake trying to "look" professional via their website when all the trade comes from being friendly, approachable and sometime even funny.

People who try to change a business to suit the web often make a big mistake. And I don't like the idea "professional" has to mean expensive. If someone works 80 on a site and the charges £20,000 and then does another site in the same time for £1,000 does that make the first site better or more "professional" ?

Some people just decide to charge reasonable rates and go for growth that way rather then purely by squeezing as much as they can out the clients that do come there way.

 

[fisicx]

If you're providing a website without even seeing the content that goes on it, you might as well have not bothered.

The website should be built around the content, not the other way around.

And THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is the difference between a website and a good website.

Exactly. But it's not the responsbility of the website designer to write the content. I know bugger all about defibrilators but I could build a site to sell the things.

Go back to the orignal question. If I have the content then I can build an afforadable site. If I don't have the content I can still build the site but can't be responsible when it all goes pear shaped. If you want a fashion blog I can set you up a nice WP theme but it's up to you to do the writing.

The person building the site may be a fantastic programmer/developer but have awful copy writing skills or not have a clue how to create a logo. They can create a very good website but the content belongs to the owner not the developer.