Can SEO's be trusted?

[simpson7647]

Hi all,

I was wondering the other day how many SEO's can be trusted to do the write kind of methods in gaining traffic - ones that may take longer to achieve but you wont be penalised.

Also if the SEO is going to edit page titles/keywords etc, then wouldn't they need full access to your website?

How do you choose your SEO's? Word of mouth, online recommendations?

Thanks,

 

[mcb247]

I think you are asking about who is the best people to do SEO for you ... one of the best places to look for this would be a site called trafficplanet[dot]com sorry not enough posts yet ... this is a forum so people give great feedback via comments so you can see whether people deliver what they say they are going to do ... hope this helps

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Also if the SEO is going to edit page titles/keywords etc, then wouldn't they need full access to your website?

Most likely, though they could issue instructions for you/your trusted webmaster to do it. Personally I wouldn't hire someone I didn't trust...

How do you choose your SEO's? Word of mouth, online recommendations?

Word of mouth referral. Not perfect, but at least you know who is giving the referral...

With online recommendations, how do you know what connection the online recommendation has. Is it the brother in law? Is it a fellow freemason? Someone paid for a referral? Or just an idiot who doesn't know better?

 

[matt.chatterley]

A slight abstract, but still - if you don't trust someone, you probably shouldn't be working with them!

 

[Paul Norman]

A slight abstract, but still - if you don't trust someone, you probably shouldn't be working with them!

This is wise counsel

 

[Ian J]

I was wondering the other day how many SEO's can be trusted to do the write kind of methods in gaining traffic - ones that may take longer to achieve but you wont be penalised.

Also if the SEO is going to edit page titles/keywords etc, then wouldn't they need full access to your website?

The best way of finding an SEO to work with is by personal recommendation.

I have used a couple of different companies in the past and were loathe to allow them complete and unfettered access to my website so told them to give me all of their proposed changes and I would make them.

This time around I have been using Webgeek's company as I have been following him on this forum for quite a while before approaching him and I trusted him sufficiently to give him the login details to my website and he has made whatever changes he felt where necessary

 

[DexSmart]

When you are about to choose a SEO guy "think twice and cut once".More or less companies are practicing the same strategies, and collect clients to make money, and suddenly they can't offer the best services they promised. So, you could go for a one single guy who runs 1-5 companies and has enough time to work for you. That's a way, or just hire a SEO locally.

 

[MikePNV]

HI

Try on freelancer,there are a lot of guys out there who do white seo,you can also check their reviews

 

[DexSmart]

One of the worst idea ever. Freelance websites have become not spammed but second hand places for SEO, you name it. If you want to get garbage work go there, and you will see. They either go with high price on you and try to outsource, or simply do spam from first time.

 

[clickforseo]

Get recommendations from trusted sources. Ask your business contacts whom they use. Many will employ full time staff, others always go for outsources. Ask on forums like this, but know when someone is just plugging. That is why I hate the warrior forum, as it is full of self-serving promoting tricksters. People selling their next crap WSO and then touting results they do not or cannot prove. Information like that forum should be free, free info for all. And tbh, this forum has covered all the SEO areas worth looking at. So, when you ask someone to do your SEO, ask them about their clients, results obtained and their approach. If they choose to go down the road of 1000s of links a month, steer clear. If the SEO guy talks about engagement, reach and authority content, and has a list of clients, give that a whirl.

 

[offthepegdesign]

One of the worst idea ever. Freelance websites have become not spammed but second hand places for SEO, you name it. If you want to get garbage work go there, and you will see. They either go with high price on you and try to outsource, or simply do spam from first time.

I 2nd that.. freelancer used to be a pretty decent place to find "Freelancers" now its full of people with lots of talk and nothing more! Do your research before considering anything. a good seo guy wont need to sell his services!

 

[DexSmart]

I 2nd that.. freelancer used to be a pretty decent place to find "Freelancers" now its full of people with lots of talk and nothing more! Do your research before considering anything. a good seo guy wont need to sell his services!

True!

 

[Annoying Donkey]

a good seo guy wont need to sell his services!

Even [modest] geniuses like me have to sell sometimes...

 

[Alex Brooks]

One of the worst idea ever. Freelance websites have become not spammed but second hand places for SEO, you name it. If you want to get garbage work go there, and you will see. They either go with high price on you and try to outsource, or simply do spam from first time.

I do some freelance work on some freelancer websites, to be honest 80% of my competition offer 100% SPAM and try passing it off as whitehat, or they offer a "top 3 guarantee" on contracted SEO packages - Something i'm seeing more and more of

 

[mary2222]

A good SEO professional is always one who can get your website ranking on top pages of SERPs doing white hat methods only. And yes a successful SEO method is not just about quality linkbuilding or off page SEO but also about good on-page SEO. So you really need to entrust your on page to your SEO person to be able to successfully get a good standing on SERPs.

It is also better if the SEO person can provide you with monthly updates about your site standing so you are updated of the progress.

 

[Ian J]

A good SEO professional is always one who can get your website ranking on top pages of SERPs doing white hat methods only. And yes a successful SEO method is not just about quality linkbuilding or off page SEO but also about good on-page SEO. So you really need to entrust your on page to your SEO person to be able to successfully get a good standing on SERPs.

It is also better if the SEO person can provide you with monthly updates about your site standing so you are updated of the progress.

Very interesting but it makes no attempt to answer the questions posed about allowing the SEO full access to the website. As I have already mentioned a workable alternative is for the SEO to give the website owner a list of proposed changes so that he can make them himself

 

[StevePoster]

I was wondering the other day how many SEO's can be trusted to do the write kind of methods in gaining traffic - ones that may take longer to achieve but you wont be penalised.

Its really hard to find trusted and effective SEO individual or company today and if you want their services the client must also know their field to have better agreement in optimization.

Also if the SEO is going to edit page titles/keywords etc, then wouldn't they need full access to your website?

Most of the SEOs has knowledge within the website (Programming language) that's why they know how to analyze and implement strategies as well as plan for better optimization in the site.

a good seo guy wont need to sell his services!

But to share its knowledge to help other people understand why we are optimizing the website for the audience.

 

[Ian J]

Its really hard to find trusted and effective SEO individual or company today

No it isn't. I could give you the names of several SEO's from this forum alone that know what they are doing and in fact one of them is looking after my own site.

Most of the SEOs has knowledge within the website (Programming language) that's why they know how to analyze and implement strategies as well as plan for better optimization in the site.

Cobblers. Whatever knowledge the SEO has can be implemented without having to have access to the website

 

[Alex Brooks]

Very interesting but it makes no attempt to answer the questions posed about allowing the SEO full access to the website. As I have already mentioned a workable alternative is for the SEO to give the website owner a list of proposed changes so that he can make them himself

I've personally never had anyone have an issue with giving me access to their website, but i can see it happening and to be honest, after writing this post i bet it does happen to me now, but anyway, giving a list of proposed changes is certainly a workable alternative, I've had clients ask for a list of proposed changes to approve before giving me access to modify the website, which again is understandable.

 

[offthepegdesign]

Yeah i have never had an issue with getting access either, but i do have concerns when giving to much details as to what i plan to do (not just SEO, but design and development).. I have had potential client take my full list of ideas to another developer (who im glad to say didn't do it as well as i would have).

Now i tend to be pretty vague as to what actions in intend to take and why. Until I am sure I have the job

 

[Tin]

Hi all,

I was wondering the other day how many SEO's can be trusted to do the write kind of methods in gaining traffic - ones that may take longer to achieve but you wont be penalised.

Also if the SEO is going to edit page titles/keywords etc, then wouldn't they need full access to your website?

How do you choose your SEO's? Word of mouth, online recommendations?

Thanks,

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if I'm overlapping what someone else has already said.

1: seems like there's fewer and fewer seo's that can be trusted these days to 'not' bring your site into disrepute so always go on actual recommendations (preferably from someone who's worked with that seo).

2: No, the seo doesn't need direct access to your web pages. I've had that problem many times with my own clients, there's obviously going to be a 'faith/trust issue between you and your seo in the early stages so the simple answer is, the seo gives you a Word document which contains all the changes he would want to make on each of your web pages, it's really easy;

On this url www.yoursite.comx/product-page/ please change the title wording from "xxx xxxxx xx xx x xxxx x" to this wording.

On the same url please change the wording of your meta description from this "xxxxx xx xxxx" to this wording.

Depending on how thorough your seo is he'll want to change quite a few more areas too and he'd just follow the method listed above. You then put those changes into place on the relevant pages.

3: How to choose an seo: In essence this should be simple but it's not. If you were choosing a builder to build an extension then you'd ask around to see who may be able to offer opinions based on experience, you'd then chat to the builder and look at some of his work ie; ring up his customers. If he's any good he won't mind, if he's rubbish, he will.

The trouble with seo's is that in the main they won't give client rankings or client telephone numbers, usually on the grounds of client protection so those would be the ones I'd walk away from because the risk is completely in your lap. If they're any good at what they do then why wouldn't they be willing to provide such information? I know this is an awkward area but I'm an seo and have offered client tel numbers and rankings to new, potential clients once I know they're seriously thinking of working with me, I don't give these out to everyone but I haven't had any problems in doing so either.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

The trouble with seo's is that in the main they won't give client rankings or client telephone numbers, usually on the grounds of client protection so those would be the ones I'd walk away from because the risk is completely in your lap.

So, 20 testimonials from fiver @ £3.50 a pop, and we have a sale... What a good investment...

If they're any good at what they do then why wouldn't they be willing to provide such information?

1. So the client's competitors don't know the client has hired an SEO and thus get into a battle for the top spot...? How would that be good for your client?
2. To avoid the possibility of negative SEO scam on client site...? How would that be good for your client?
3. Because anonymous references are, at best, suspect.

Call me old fashioned, but a referral from someone I know is worth every other method combined of finding an ethical supplier...

 

[Tin]

Hi Terry

I didn't mention fake testimonials, you did. I offered an opinion on what the OP could consider doing to reduce his risk in entering what is a very tricky market sector to evaluate. If you'd have problems doing what I'd suggested to the OP then I don't have a problem with that.

I agree, a referral from someone I know would be the best thing to trust but sometimes we don't live in an ideal world so have to make educated 'best' guesses at times. Alternatively, a recommendation from one seo to another is a decent 'second best' and I've done just that a number of times over the years, when I haven't been the best seo option for them.

 

[sirearl]

A good SEO professional is always one who can get your website ranking on top pages of SERPs doing white hat methods only. And yes a successful SEO method is not just about quality linkbuilding or off page SEO but also about good on-page SEO. So you really need to entrust your on page to your SEO person to be able to successfully get a good standing on SERPs.

It is also better if the SEO person can provide you with monthly updates about your site standing so you are updated of the progress.

I thought the best SEO's were the ones who made the client money whatever method they used.

No one uses pure white hat in competative areas.

Monthly reports are a waste of time,just look in the till

 

[Annoying Donkey]

I didn't mention fake testimonials, you did. I offered an opinion on what the OP could consider doing to reduce his risk in entering what is a very tricky market sector to evaluate. If you'd have problems doing what I'd suggested to the OP then I don't have a problem with that.

The issue is that a testimonial from a stranger doesn't really reduce risk at all. Who knows what relationship they have with the SEO or if the testimonial is purchased in some way...

I'd trust my gut instinct over a testimonial from a stranger any day...

PS, I don't have an issue with you having a different opinion, I just think you're wrong!

 

[Tin]

The issue is that a testimonial from a stranger doesn't really reduce risk at all. Who knows what relationship they have with the SEO or if the testimonial is purchased in some way...

I'd trust my gut instinct over a testimonial from a stranger any day...

PS, I don't have an issue with you having a different opinion, I just think you're wrong!

I'm not saying there's a way to reduce risk altogether but it can be 'reduced down' and then it's up to whoever to make a decision based on their gut instinct at that time.

1: Ask someone for testimonials (getting them is something else)
2: Contact those people and asked them key questions
3: Look over the home page and a small number of internal pages and then run a ranking check to see how the rankings look.
4: Rinse & repeat with other clients.

There'll come a time in this process that'll make it clear the testimonials are
a: genuine
b: the guy knows his stuff - because you can't fool everyone all the time.

Here's the question the OP asked...

"How do you choose your SEO's? Word of mouth, online recommendations?"

and I've answered it as best I can, along with some common sense.

It takes little time and a little bit of a hard neck to ask but why people trying to source skills never seem bothered to do basic, common sense checks, is beyond me.

 

[Mystro]

It takes little time and a little bit of a hard neck to ask but why people trying to source skills never seem bothered to do basic, common sense checks, is beyond me.

I think it all really boils down to know what to ask, if you are not in the industry and have no idea of the mechanics where do you start and what questions do you ask and such a difficult answer to provide as each site being different with different budgets and such.

I normally just look at the company's site and determine from there id they are any good, as they really should be ranking their own sites ??? (or maybe they really are too busy making others money) to worry about their own sites

 

[Tin]

I think it all really boils down to know what to ask, if you are not in the industry and have no idea of the mechanics where do you start and what questions do you ask and such a difficult answer to provide as each site being different with different budgets and such.

Here's a link to a post I made 7 years ago on this forum when someone else asked a similar question. For me not a lot has changed in getting pages to rank but some of the tools I mentioned back then are not so useful now.

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/threads/finding-a-good-seo-company.43462/#post-312684

 

[Annoying Donkey]

It takes little time and a little bit of a hard neck to ask but why people trying to source skills never seem bothered to do basic, common sense checks, is beyond me.

We agree on that at least

 

[Annoying Donkey]

I normally just look at the company's site and determine from there id they are any good, as they really should be ranking their own sites ???

I haven't bothered as few of my clients spend any time on the web.

(or maybe they really are too busy making others money) to worry about their own sites

I know I am

 

[Johnny.S]

Try talking to them? If you were going to hire a plumber or a builder you would probably want to have a chat first about what they were planning to do.

A good SEO should be able to give you a good overview of the basic strategy that they are going to implement on your behalf.

I would also suggest educating yourself a little about SEO practices. Try the SEO Moz free guide. You don't need to be able to execute an SEO strategy for yourself but its useful to understand the terminology and tactics an SEO is likely to be using.

 

[mary2222]

I would not bother much about giving access to the site to implement the things that needed to be done because it is really important that you give access to the site to do the on-page tasks. But if you have the knowledge on how to do on page you may just do these yourself so you will no longer have to give access.

 

[Ian J]

I would not bother much about giving access to the site to implement the things that needed to be done because it is really important that you give access to the site to do the on-page tasks. But if you have the knowledge on how to do on page you may just do these yourself so you will no longer have to give access.

This is the second time that you have posted to this thread and it's the second time that you have given wrong information.

IT IS NOT REALLY IMPORTANT TO GIVE ACCESS TO THE SITE TO DO ON-PAGE TASKS

It is sufficient for the SEO to give the website owner a list of changes that need to be made which he can do himself so no access needs to be given at all

 

[ZeroDouble]

You're quite right, no access to the backend of the site is *required*, but 9 times out of 10 it would take longer to explain in words what you require the webmaster to do, than to have just quickly done it yourself.

I guess it all comes down to trust, although I have to say that I'm not sure why anyone would work with someone that they didn't trust (at least to a point) in the first place?

Glad I don't have to deal with these issues.

 

[StevePoster]

IT IS NOT REALLY IMPORTANT TO GIVE ACCESS TO THE SITE TO DO ON-PAGE TASKS
It is sufficient for the SEO to give the website owner a list of changes that need to be made which he can do himself so no access needs to be given at all

Because in an outsourcing company there are designers and programmers or developers are in charge in these task when it comes to on page seo purposes. Regarding on my first post I've seen an SEO individual that is involved in programming when it comes to on page concerns that's why I stated that and looking forward for other reactions.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

It is sufficient for the SEO to give the website owner a list of changes that need to be made which he can do himself so no access needs to be given at all

Not always that simple...

Owner is busy and puts list in todo tray never to be seen again. SEO wastes much time chasing owner, resulting in extra expense for owner or dead time for SEO. Owner then blames SEO because he's not ranking...

Or owner passes it to his "trusted" webmaster who, being paranoid, delays, obstructs or just plain does it wrong. More wasted time for SEO who, either charges it back to owner, who, in turn, complains that he shouldn't have to pay for this, or SEO takes it as dead time.

Now try doing some split testing under these circumstances...

Believe it or not the SEO likely has other clients and must remain profitable if the partnership is to work.

If you can't trust each other, then IMHO you shouldn't work together...

 

[Ian J]

If you can't trust each other, then IMHO you shouldn't work together...

I agree which brings us back to the original post about how to find an SEO that is not only trustworthy but effective too and I will also refer back to my first response which was "personal recommendation"

 

[FantasticCleaners]

I agree with those who say "personal recommendation" and in addition - do not believe "SEO's" who "will rank your website on first position for less than three months". It's almost impossible to rank for less than three months using only white hat techniques.

This was a mistake I've done and my website got penalized and cost me months of work to get the penalty removed.

 

[MASSEY]

The trouble with SEO's is that most of them are full of shite.

In addition to email spam i also get letters in the post that a full of rubbish. One even printed out a screen shot of the website talking about possible duplicate content. A line of text contained in the body of over a 1000 words was also repeated in the sidebar, which according to that toss pot was having a negative impact. I wonder how many unsuspecting victims he is now sucking the blood from?

Seo is a unique area of expertise in the sense that anyone can claim to be one and have no accountability once things go belly up, some even set up companies offering SEO when they don't even know what a h1 tag is. It is a mine field for any business to find someone who can actually do it and do it well.

You can't even trust the companies that rank on page one of google for 'seo' to do a full and proper job - and they cost a small fortune to use.

Generally, paying more means better - at least it does for everything else bar websites and seo.

The whole industry has been on its head ever since the word seo was invented.

Non teccy people can even be duped by referrals / references.

I appreciate that there are a handful on this forum that know what they are talking about, but i can only appreciate that having a great deal more knowledge than the typical business owner who is just waiting to get shafted by snake oil unless they get lucky and find one of the 1% of people offering the service that actually know what they are doing.

I agree people should look for results in peoples work but even that in the world of SEO isn't sufficient. You can rank sites top of google pretty easily for competitive terms with a sufficient know-how and a reasonably small budget, whether the rankings will last longer than a few months before you find yourself languishing on page 8 of google is another matter. So it's not like you can compare the SEO due diligence process to people asking whether so and so fitted them a nice bathroom - because the bathroom will always be there the rankings wont.

I also appreciate that many small and medium business owners don't understand the true cost of decent seo, and as a result, to some degree, are getting what they pay for.

 

[Soph13]

Word of mouth/recommendation is great.

I've worked in SEO agencies and seen a lot of clients come to us burnt by unethical agencies. I agree largely with the other posts. Go with your gut.

You will get a feeling from their website too. A good agency should have a good website. Read their blog, 'meet the team', follow them on social. You'll start to build a picture of what the agency is like and hopefully get in touch. You'll quickly realise the fly by night agencies don't have this level of transparency or even personality.

And as a general rule of thumb try to avoid companies with names like 'getrankingsfast'