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harryboon
- Original Poster
- #42
Good question - however they work on their SEO full-time to keep those results, but for their clients to keep theirs, there is a massive cost involved. What we are saying is a lot of the links they build for clients soon die away and then the ranks drop as well.
I sound *****y but I hope you get the point lol
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As one to whom the above applies SOOO well, can I just use this to explain my post on this one please?
I admit I do not have THE FIRST IDEA about this stuff - and because I know this, I started using the services of a forum member about a year ago to help with my (then) lame website...
On his suggestion, a 2nd forum member is going to help from next month, and having discussed stuff with them both - I can say nothing but good things about either of them...
For me - UKBF was TOPS to help me in this area... and yes they ARE charging, but I have to say the costs were not of the "rip you a new one" variety - suprised me so much I had to check!
I'll take this chance to formally thank both members in public... you know who you are
(and I say this in the full knowledge that a renewal is falling due!
)If EVER I get to worrying about SEO I think I know who to ask...
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So? There are a lot of SEOs who charge on-going fees. I assume that's for on-going work. Why wouldn't these same SEOs do on-going work on their own rankings?
So, I guess the question is: is there something wrong with "residual fee" SEOs? Is it some sort of con? A sign of incompetence?
I'll be honest, as a non-SEO, I judge SEOs on the rankings they achieve. I don't care whether those rankings are for their own sites or their clients' sites. SEO is SEO. And there's something fairly impressive about a company that ranks #1 for a competitive term relating to SEO.
Over the years, I've read a lot of b1tching and bad-mouthing of the companies that tend to dominate these SERPS.
Sometimes it's "they use black hat techniques". If that's how they got to the top, then isn't that a sign that black hat beats white hat?
Other times it's "they work hard on their rankings". Surely that's better than "they work hard on their telemarketing"?
I don't get it. Surely these companies deserve some respect.
Steve
PS I don't have a dog in this race. I'm not an SEO. I'm just giving an outsider's perspective.
PPS I don't judge SEO companies who don't try to compete for these terms. It takes a large agency to deal with that volume of enquiries. A one-man or one-woman operation would spend so much time dealing with prospects, they wouldn't have time to do any SEO for their clients.
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It all boils down to results...
sometimes marketing money is better spent on other traffic methods... seo is a tricky game and Google changes the game all the time.
What's the point of spending $5k t get top rankings in a competitive niche using 'quick fix black hat seo'? In the following months you'll be bumped right off the ranks...
It pays to hire someone knowledgeable in all areas of internet marketing to get the best long term return on investment.
sometimes marketing money is better spent on other traffic methods... seo is a tricky game and Google changes the game all the time.
What's the point of spending $5k t get top rankings in a competitive niche using 'quick fix black hat seo'? In the following months you'll be bumped right off the ranks...
It pays to hire someone knowledgeable in all areas of internet marketing to get the best long term return on investment.
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H
harryboon
- Original Poster
- #47
Steve you are right on many levels - what I like to see is people getting great value for their money and some, not all SEO companies over charge the customer, build poor links which need to be renewed offen, which in the end costs the client more money.
I just want to see fair deals for people who have little understanding about seo and not get ripped off. This is how I got started in seo, built a site, contacted a seo company ranked top 5 in the UK and they wanted £25 per link they build for me, min spend per month £1,000!
Cheers Harry
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Ok its one thing to rank no.1 for glaggleshindips, but its another to rank in the same position for competitive keywords, like "link building".
I'm not saying Micrositez are angels on earth and maybe they are doing things which might not be considered good and proper, but from where I stand, businesses look for results and if you have a budget to pay for those results, why would you not do it?
Just another point on these guys - topseos.com mentions that they have a 99% client retention rate! Surely that counts for something!
I for one would love to organically build links because people love my content or my site, but if thats going to take years, and I can pay someone to do it in months, I would! The only thing stopping me is ROI but if that measured up, I'm not sure what else would stop me?
I'm not saying Micrositez are angels on earth and maybe they are doing things which might not be considered good and proper, but from where I stand, businesses look for results and if you have a budget to pay for those results, why would you not do it?
Just another point on these guys - topseos.com mentions that they have a 99% client retention rate! Surely that counts for something!
I for one would love to organically build links because people love my content or my site, but if thats going to take years, and I can pay someone to do it in months, I would! The only thing stopping me is ROI but if that measured up, I'm not sure what else would stop me?
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That's all subjective.
If the company that's #1 for link building does it that way then, unless you get yourself to #1 for that phrase, who are you to say they're not doing it right?
If they're using the same methods on their own sites, Google's giving their approach the thumbs up.
Again, I don't see the big deal about this. Why shouldn't a link be worth £25?
I know an SEO who probably charges more than that per link. He says it takes a lot of work to get a decent link. I have no reason to believe that's a lie.
TBH, all this stuff about a "fair deal", coupled with your repeated calls for people to PM you, seem, to me, more like "marketing by competitor bashing" than a coherent argument for why your approach is better.
Just my 2p,
Steve
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H
harryboon
- Original Poster
- #55
Steve I think you are being a little unfair here. Ask anyone who has PM'd me and ask them if I was selling anything and the answer would be no! I do a little bit of seo in my free time to help local businesses rank better and rarely charge a penny.
And I have never said my approach is better all I was saying it there is a plenty you can do to help your site rank without forking out thousands of pounds on SEO companies.
Anyway it doesn't really matter at the end of the day, just remind me again what line of work you are in Steve?
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This is simply untrue and demonstrates a lack of understanding of how merit based link building works. If a link takes a full days work to secure would you be happy to receive £25 for that days work? It might allow you to live a decent life in Costa Rica, it wouldn't here in the UK.
d
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Lived in London also for a year and it might surprise you to hear that Costa Rica resort towns are not cheap places to live. If you want a decent lifestyle it costs about the same. For the record I am not involved in cheap seo services... we focus on quality and return on investment.
£25 for one days work and one link sounds a bit much... could you give examples? How many unique visitors does this one link provide daily to your customers site?
I could see if you charged per project and focused on producing and marketing viral content... would bring in hundreds or thousands of links and traffic if done correctly in one day. I just don't get how to charge per link or how you could justify that sunk cost to a client..
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You seem to be confused. I would never suggest a client should be charged per link. The point I was making is securing quality links is time consuming, time costs money and if you spend a day researching and looking for links and only secure one link, then you might want paying more than £25 for your days work.
Merit based link building uses a different model to the X links for £Y's approach.
d
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Do you mean they could be lower or they can't compete with countries whose cost of living is lower?
d
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In what way do you agree? Do you mean compared to other countries with the same cost of living on in general?
d
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Strictly speaking, I don't think you necessarily do. As long as your due diligence is good and the firm/person you are choosing can demonstrate the level of professional and written language skills you are after, the on-page stuff can be done off-shore.
In fact for me, I think the off-page stuff can be hit and miss especially when writing thorough articles and link building. A few too many grammatical errors there may bring a site's credibility into question...
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S
seo-joe
- Original Poster
- #69
The truth is that you pay an seo for their knowledge, as much as for their skills.
I do understand peoples concerns when it comes to pricing. I get an uneasy feeling everytime I have my car serviced, because I know almost nothing about cars and am fully at the mechanics mercy.
I would suggest that you have a good idea of what you want to achieve from hiring an seo, pick up a telephone and TALK to them. A good SEO should be happy giving a free consultation in which they will discuss your website and its goals.
You can pay upto $200,000 for a complete seo solution with the best firms, and this will deal with on and off page seo, including looking at your business in real depth to determine how you can best approach and magnetize your website as to attract your prospective market.
So before hiring an seo, ask yourself how much are you willing to invest at this point in time for a good service? What will the pay off be? Is it worth it?
There is soooo much that you can do yourself, its just knowing how to do these things in a in a structured and methodical way.
True SEO's know a great deal about not just technical aspects of the game, but also how to market and promote your site in different ways to really boost your online presence. They can either manage these types of projects for you or will blueprint it so you can go away and do this over time.
I know how overwhelming seo can be and even more so if your busy trying to create content for a website and interact with your users.
People think they can creat mega-online success all alone. It the home based business dream. You cant do it ALL alone.
Employ an seo you get on with. You will work closely with them over time to boost your online success.
I do understand peoples concerns when it comes to pricing. I get an uneasy feeling everytime I have my car serviced, because I know almost nothing about cars and am fully at the mechanics mercy.
I would suggest that you have a good idea of what you want to achieve from hiring an seo, pick up a telephone and TALK to them. A good SEO should be happy giving a free consultation in which they will discuss your website and its goals.
You can pay upto $200,000 for a complete seo solution with the best firms, and this will deal with on and off page seo, including looking at your business in real depth to determine how you can best approach and magnetize your website as to attract your prospective market.
So before hiring an seo, ask yourself how much are you willing to invest at this point in time for a good service? What will the pay off be? Is it worth it?
There is soooo much that you can do yourself, its just knowing how to do these things in a in a structured and methodical way.
True SEO's know a great deal about not just technical aspects of the game, but also how to market and promote your site in different ways to really boost your online presence. They can either manage these types of projects for you or will blueprint it so you can go away and do this over time.
I know how overwhelming seo can be and even more so if your busy trying to create content for a website and interact with your users.
People think they can creat mega-online success all alone. It the home based business dream. You cant do it ALL alone.
Employ an seo you get on with. You will work closely with them over time to boost your online success.
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I can highly recommend Cybernautix who do our SEO and have quickly got us to page 1 of Google for 'cpanel hosting'
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Try searching on SEO in Google - If they can get themselves up the rankings, on their own search word they may do so for you. Personally I do my own. Takes a few hours a week and I seem to be able to keep my site (Added value applications aka ava) quite high on temp Agency software search and other related terms. If you search within the site you will find articles on helping your seo ranking for free. Hope this helps.
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Not the best of advice getting rankings for SEO related stuff is not an indication of what they can do for you.
It usually means they have put a lot of effort into getting a ranking for SEO e.t.c.
Earl
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As I said back on page 5:
(I also pointed out why smaller SEO agencies might not think it's worth the effort to get on p1 for these terms.)
Steve
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J
jamiec8
- Original Poster
- #77
My thoughts exactly, looking at this thread and some of the self recommendations, like prices start from £75 a month! What could anyone do for that! I didn't realise how many cowboys there were in SEO until I actually got into it myself. They ruin the industry. Whoever you go for make sure they don't charge you upfront, don't promise 1st page by xyz and make sure they are interested in your business and making you a profit!
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Have you already read the information Google give, and other blogs about SEO?
To find decent blogs on SEO, one would hope googling "SEO blogs" would throw up the ones who know what they're talking about
Patrick McKenzie's "MicroIsv on a shoestring" blog is interesting too. And read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine_optimization
If you are at all technical (even knowing how to do basic Wordpress admin) there's a lot you can do, after that hire someone but get them to prove their abilities - what sites did they work on and what search terms can you test that with?
You need to know what people should be searching for to find your site though... have you put those thoughts in?
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