Can an employer legally demand to see a contract from another employer (employee works 2 jobs) ?

[mit74]

As above. Employee has 2 part time jobs and one of the employers is asking to see the other contract as proof of hours contracted for. Can they refuse?

 

[NicoJ]

As above. Employee has 2 part time jobs and one of the employers is asking to see the other contract as proof of hours contracted for. Can they refuse?

I'm going to guess that this is to ensure the wellbeing of the employee (to ensure they are not working too many hours). I doubt they have the right to see the contract but i would guess they do have the right to know you aren't exceeding the limit (48 hours IIRC).

 

[Newchodge]

As above. Employee has 2 part time jobs and one of the employers is asking to see the other contract as proof of hours contracted for. Can they refuse?

They can ask what they like but they have no right to see the other contract. They are obliged to ask the employee to confirm the hours they worl in the other job and to notify the employer of any variations (if they work overtime, for example. This is a health and safety issue related to working hours.

Demonstrating a complete lack of trust in the employee is not a good idea.

 

[mit74]

I'm going to guess that this is to ensure the wellbeing of the employee (to ensure they are not working too many hours). I doubt they have the right to see the contract but i would guess they do have the right to know you aren't exceeding the limit (48 hours IIRC).

they know the employee works under 30 hours total as both jobs are not full days

 

[Newchodge]

they know the employee works under 30 hours total as both jobs are not full days

I am sorry that is meaningless. The employer is entitled to know how many hours the employee works in another job. Not guess, know.

 

[mit74]

I am sorry that is meaningless. The employer is entitled to know how many hours the employee works in another job. Not guess, know.

Yes they've been told exact hours.

 

[WaveJumper]

Slightly confused (and barring in mind whats already been said above) has this employee not got a copy of their own contract, that if needed can be wafted under the nose of a second employer if they wish to prove they are not over doing it.

Makes a changed to know a company is on the ball with employee wellbeing

 

[Newchodge]

Slightly confused (and barring in mind whats already been said above) has this employee not got a copy of their own contract, that if needed can be wafted under the nose of a second employer if they wish to prove they are not over doing it.

Makes a changed to know a company is on the ball with employee wellbeing

An employment contract may contain all sorts of private details that the other employer is not entitled to see. It is also pretty meaningless in this context. What matters is how many hours the employee is working. It may be a zero hours contract, or one that shows a minimum number of hours with an expectation of overtime being worked as needed.

 

[mit74]

Slightly confused (and barring in mind whats already been said above) has this employee not got a copy of their own contract, that if needed can be wafted under the nose of a second employer if they wish to prove they are not over doing it.

Makes a changed to know a company is on the ball with employee wellbeing

this isn't a request to see if they're over doing it. This is because they don't believe they can't work for them on a certain day and have said they would like to evidence

 

[Newchodge]

this isn't a request to see if they're over doing it. This is because they don't believe they can't work for them on a certain day and have said they would like to evidence

Do you have a legal obligation to work on that day? If not tell them it is none of their business. If you do, you have a problem. How long have you been employed?

EDIT: Think about joining a union. This does not sound like an employer who will be easy to work for.

 

[mit74]

Do you have a legal obligation to work on that day? If not tell them it is none of their business. If you do, you have a problem. How long have you been employed?

Not myself but it's over 10 years. They're not contracted to work specifically that day just a set amount of hours which they currently fulfill. The company wants to change one of the days and wants proof the person can't work on that day. The company has known about the other job for over 5 years and has been ok with it until now.

 

[mit74]

Do you have a legal obligation to work on that day? If not tell them it is none of their business. If you do, you have a problem. How long have you been employed?

Not myself but it's over 10 years. They're not contracted to work specifically that day just a set amount of hours which they currently fulfill. The company wants to change one of the days and wants proof the person can't work on that day. The company has known about the other job for over 5 years and has been ok with it until now.

 

[IanSuth]

So the nub of it is they want to change hours which have become standard and custom and are grumpy the employee is saying "no that would clash with my other job that you have known about for 5 years" and the first employer is saying "prove they clash".

Maybe a simple solution is ask Employer 2 for a simple letter from HR (oe equiv) on headed paper just confirming normal days of work.

Proof provided without full contract being shown

 

[AlanJ1]

Maybe a simple solution is ask Employer 2 for a simple letter from HR (or equiv) on headed paper just confirming normal days of work.

Proof provided without full contract being shown

I would agree with this, but curious, legally do they have too?

 

[IanSuth]

I would agree with this, but curious, legally do they have too?

I think as @Newchodge said there is a duty to provide hours of work as there are wtr rules covering things like minimum gaps between shifts and time off. Those are H&S not employment law so stuff companies don't really want to fall foul of

 

[Newchodge]

I would agree with this, but curious, legally do they have too?

Not legally, no.

It is a difficult situation.

Is the employer reasonable to demand proof if the employee has said they cannot change their hours? I would say no - there may be lots of perfectly valid reasons why they cannot change, one of which may be that they already work on that day. The employer openly stating that they don't trust the employee's word is pretty damning.

But we don't know why the employer wishes to change. It may be fundamental to the future of the business. However, this seems unlikely - the implication of the employer's actions is that, if they accept that the employee cannot change, they won't have to.

What does the employee do if employer 2 will not provide such a letter?

 

[WaveJumper]

Not legally, no.

It is a difficult situation.

Is the employer reasonable to demand proof if the employee has said they cannot change their hours? I would say no - there may be lots of perfectly valid reasons why they cannot change, one of which may be that they already work on that day. The employer openly stating that they don't trust the employee's word is pretty damning.

But we don't know why the employer wishes to change. It may be fundamental to the future of the business. However, this seems unlikely - the implication of the employer's actions is that, if they accept that the employee cannot change, they won't have to.

What does the employee do if employer 2 will not provide such a letter?

From what I have heard sounds like Tesco's if you are part time with set additional hours in contract your expected to be available any day of the week at a moments notice

 

[jimbof]

I think as @Newchodge said there is a duty to provide hours of work as there are wtr rules covering things like minimum gaps between shifts and time off. Those are H&S not employment law so stuff companies don't really want to fall foul of

I think it's a different question though. They're not asking the number of hours contracted (which would be the legal requirement to ensure the employee isn't over 48hrs per week) but are asking to know exactly which days they are working what hours on (seems the original question was loosely worded). The later would be in excess of what they have a right to legally. Might be though they have signed a contract that says they have to be available to work though, so then it would be a contractual matter.

 

[fisicx]

What if it’s not just a work conflict but something else. Like they volunteer for charity on that day or visit elderly parents or babysit for someone.

These things can be changed but the employer would need to justify the disruption.

 

[eteb3]

Five years on the same rota, with employer agreeing to the arrangement and knowing something of the other job, sounds like a contractual term established by usage / conduct. If so, changing the day is a variation of contract.

No need to justify the refusal, freeborn Englishmen & women can't be required to resile from the rights they've bargained for, so can't be required to justify themselves for refusing to do so.

Or am I missing something unique about employment contracts?

 

[Newchodge]

Five years on the same rota, with employer agreeing to the arrangement and knowing something of the other job, sounds like a contractual term established by usage / conduct. If so, changing the day is a variation of contract.

No need to justify the refusal, freeborn Englishmen & women can't be required to resile from the rights they've bargained for, so can't be required to justify themselves for refusing to do so.

Or am I missing something unique about employment contracts?

You're missing the fact that employers have absolute power. If they dismiss the employee for refusing to change their days, the employee may eventually win a level of compensation from the employment tribunal. Only for losses incurred, not for compensation for appalling behaviour by the employer. In the meantime they will be without an income. Many employees choose to allow employers to exploit them as they cannot afford the alternative.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Bit of a thread hijack but out of interest, and I've got a feeling I may have posted/asked this before.?

Can an employer demand that an employee doesn't work for a competitor at the same time?

I once called into Homebase and was served by the very same woman who'd served me in B&Q earlier in the day. She was part time at both!

 

[DontAsk]

Bit of a thread hijack but out of interest, and I've got a feeling I may have posted/asked this before.?

Can an employer demand that an employee doesn't work for a competitor at the same time?

I once called into Homebase and was served by the very same woman who'd served me in B&Q earlier in the day. She was part time at both!

What does their contract say?

 

[Newchodge]

Bit of a thread hijack but out of interest, and I've got a feeling I may have posted/asked this before.?

Can an employer demand that an employee doesn't work for a competitor at the same time?

I once called into Homebase and was served by the very same woman who'd served me in B&Q earlier in the day. She was part time at both!

Technically yes, but if the employer does not offer full time hours they would struggle to make it stick.

An employer offering only zero hours contract cannot require the employee works nowhere else. An employer offering 1 hour per week can, legally.

 

[japancool]

No need to justify the refusal, freeborn Englishmen & women can't be required to resile from the rights they've bargained for, so can't be required to justify themselves for refusing to do so.

What about foreigners?

 

[eteb3]

What about foreigners?

That depends on whether they're among the King's enemies, and (if not) whether they're here by his leave.

 

[japancool]

That depends on whether they're among the King's enemies, and (if not) whether they're here by his leave.

Oh good, His Maj said he's cool with me being here.