Business losses due to staff

[Ned Kelly]

wouldn't need to have their fingers in the till (which, let's face it, is happening here.

I don't believe it matters how much you pay people, if there is the"opportunity" to have more, people will take it, especially if they don't like the boss,I believe Andrew is right. Someone has there fingers in the till You have to take away all or any "opportunity"

You said they can wipe walk outs? Does that not mean a customer can pay £30 cash for there meal and the staff can say they had a walk out? Really?

All the pubs that I go in you order food at the bar, and pay for it there and then. Zero chance of walking out without paying.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Why is everyone knocking the OP who asked a simple question and was just looking for suggestions rather being treated as a idiot, she obviously knows what she is doing to build up a business with more than one outlet and also tries to help the more unfortunate people get a restart in life

We all think we know best on how to run other peoples companies but really we should keep it to ourselves and just do what the OP askes us to do, without second guessing what they already do

 

[boring-friday]

Sounds like they're taking you for a bit of a mug to me. The advice that you've been given re software is good if its not too expensive.

Not that I'm giving advice as its no doubt not good advice but I personally go mental if I catch someone on facebook or something like that. I'm not going to spend my life working my arse off to worry about some employment law that I may of broken, I don't care if someone is paid £7 a hour or £70 a hour I still expect them to work the full time I'm paying them for. Afterall its them who chose to apply for the job

 

[Ned Kelly]

Why is everyone knocking the OP who asked a simple question and was just looking for suggestions rather being treated as a idiot, she obviously knows what she is doing to build up a business with more than one outlet and also tries to help the more unfortunate people get a restart in life

We all think we know best on how to run other peoples companies but really we should keep it to ourselves and just do what the OP askes us to do, without second guessing what they already do

Who? I don't see anyone "knocking" her. Just people giving there opinion/advise. Surely that's what the OP want's? That's what I would want anyway.The good and the not so good.

The OP clearly isn't an idiot, but the OP clearly has a problem. Let's hope the collective knowledge on this great forum can help her out.

 

[sirearl]

Really Earl? You don't think a business that provides a living to owners/shareholders & its employees shouldn't exist.



Karl Limpert

Well you got the order right.

A company that can not pay its staff a living wage should not exist IMHO.

The minimum wage is nowhere near a living wage in the UK.

The problem we have is that we have the wrong type of business's in the UK.

I.E non productive financial institutions and as Nappy said "a nation of shopkeepers"

The wealth of a nation is its products not its ability to manipulate its money.

 

[The Byre]

When I've got really mad, I've held back the days tips to cover the loss but its only punishing staff who did no wrong!

I nearly missed that one!!!

Boy, are you asking for trouble!

You may or may not be legally permitted to do this, but EVERY person that has ever bust tables looks upon tips as their money and never yours to dip into.

If you did that to me, I'd take you to the cleaners. Many, many decades ago, I was a part of a scam in a restaurant and we brought them to their knees - and it all started with the management trying to dock tips.

They knew something was going on, because TO was persistently down, despite full tables and a busy kitchen. They even put a theft specialist onto us and he stood right next to the till all night. They checked stock and couldn't understand how it matched TO perfectly. Nothing was missing - except of course a healthy bottom line.

EVERY member of the eight table staff, the cooks and the barkeep was in on it. Getting them to all take part was easy, once the manager was stupid enough to start docking tips, just because some poor waitress had a 'runner' on her patch.

But everything matched. The cash matched the till roll. The sales matched the stock. We ran a tight ship - a damn sight tighter than the idiot manager!

This was a big place and by the time management gave up and rented it out to one of the members of staff (who had the money to take the place over for very obvious reasons!) in today's money, the rent was £14k a month. It was a question of rent it out or go down in flames.

I and the others were all very moralistic people, but as soon as you start to steal from your own staff, the gloves are off. If you declare war on your own staff, you do so at your own risk!

 

[john1989]

Well you got the order right.

A company that can not pay its staff a living wage should not exist IMHO.

The minimum wage is nowhere near a living wage in the UK.

The problem we have is that we have the wrong type of business's in the UK.

I.E non productive financial institutions and as Nappy said "a nation of shopkeepers"

The wealth of a nation is its products not its ability to manipulate its money.

Continue to increase the NMW then prices go up across the board as businesses have to pay their staff more.

If prices go up, then the increase becomes less of an 'increase'.

There will always be jobs that pay the 'minimum' despite what the minimum might be.

 

[Ned Kelly]

Continue to increase the NMW then prices go up across the board as businesses have to pay their staff more.

If prices go up, then the increase becomes less of an 'increase'.

There will always be jobs that pay the 'minimum' despite what the minimum might be.

Wasn't it Henry Ford who said he paid his workers well, because he wanted them to buy his cars?

The minimum wage was brought in to be just that, a minimum. Trouble is firms now use that as if that is all they NEED to pay. It is then topped up with tax payers money in the form of Tax Credits, which has turned into a subsidy for businesses.

 

[Andrew Chambers]

I don't believe it matters how much you pay people, if there is the"opportunity" to have more, people will take it, especially if they don't like the boss,I believe Andrew is right. Someone has there fingers in the till You have to take away all or any "opportunity"

You said they can wipe walk outs? Does that not mean a customer can pay £30 cash for there meal and the staff can say they had a walk out? Really?

All the pubs that I go in you order food at the bar, and pay for it there and then. Zero chance of walking out without paying.

If you pay someone a fair wage and they enjoy their job, like working for you, have some responsibility and feel a "part" of the business then they are very unlikely to risk losing their job (not to mention a possible criminal record!) for a bit of pilfering. Look after your staff and they'll look after you.

I totally agree on the walkouts, a very cheap and basic CCTV system would easily identify the genuine walkouts. For the staff to be able to clear the tab without question is ridiculous.

 

[Andrew Chambers]

I nearly missed that one!!!

Boy, are you asking for trouble!

You may or may not be legally permitted to do this, but EVERY person that has ever bust tables looks upon tips as their money and never yours to dip into.

If you did that to me, I'd take you to the cleaners. Many, many decades ago, I was a part of a scam in a restaurant and we brought them to their knees - and it all started with the management trying to dock tips.

They knew something was going on, because TO was persistently down, despite full tables and a busy kitchen. They even put a theft specialist onto us and he stood right next to the till all night. They checked stock and couldn't understand how it matched TO perfectly. Nothing was missing - except of course a healthy bottom line.

EVERY member of the eight table staff, the cooks and the barkeep was in on it. Getting them to all take part was easy, once the manager was stupid enough to start docking tips, just because some poor waitress had a 'runner' on her patch.

But everything matched. The cash matched the till roll. The sales matched the stock. We ran a tight ship - a damn sight tighter than the idiot manager!

This was a big place and by the time management gave up and rented it out to one of the members of staff (who had the money to take the place over for very obvious reasons!) in today's money, the rent was £14k a month. It was a question of rent it out or go down in flames.

I and the others were all very moralistic people, but as soon as you start to steal from your own staff, the gloves are off. If you declare war on your own staff, you do so at your own risk!

Thank the Lord, I thought I was the only one to notice the whole tip issue.

Probably makes you a Muppet also though!!!

 

[AnneLou]

Can you not set up Void "Reasons" on your EPOS? Any Voids on our tills bring up a menu and staff have to choose, ie. "Price Check", "Wrong Item" etc. You can quickly spot if people need more training, if they're opening the till more often than they should be and so on. We're wet only so I have no idea if/how that would work with food.

Thank you Opinion87 - this is the kind of information I'm needing! I don't have those options setup but I'm sure they could be. It would give me more information to ask questions when things don't appear right. We are more wet-led than food and so the only difference is that we take orders from tables and store on the till for later payment.

I have been working on the £10 till rule for errors but I often stretch that if we have been particularly busy or we have been short-staffed.

 

[Opinion87]

You can't ignore procedures just because you've been busier than usual!! You should start every day doing everything you can to be busy, and keeping procedures in place and standards high is paramount. As has been mentioned, can you not take a swipe of the customers card and/or keep their card to stop runners?

 

[ThePublisher]

We had coffee & cakes in a small coffee shop a couple of weeks back and were surprised to see them using an electronic ordering system. The shop was heaving and we could see why they would want to make life easier for themselves with the technology but had never seen a small independent of that size using the technology before. The first time we ever saw electronic ordering in action many years ago was in a beach bar in Greece.

Like another poster said above, a favourite pub/restaurant of ours is an order/pay in advance at the bar. Can't see how you could get walk outs with that system.

 

[Andrew Chambers]

Like another poster said above, a favourite pub/restaurant of ours is an order/pay in advance at the bar. Can't see how you could get walk outs with that system.

Trouble is most posters are pandering to the OP, for her own good she needs to realise that walkouts aren't the problem. The problem is her disenfranchised staff who have, on occasion, had their tips taken away. THAT is the issue that needs resolving.

 

[Bazza500]

Like another poster said above, a favourite pub/restaurant of ours is an order/pay in advance at the bar. Can't see how you could get walk outs with that system.

The trouble with that system is it kills the tips.

 

[BristolBiz]

Its a great question from the OP, and one that taxes any small business owner employing staff.

I'm convinced that whatever you do will be less than perfect.

I've done the hands-on micromanagement style (it's a retail environment), but found that hard work and frustrating.

I've now gone down the "low supervision, trust my staff" route. It occasionally costs me dear, but its worth it to me. I get staff that are resourceful, motivated and stay longer.

I'm not saying that it's appropriate for your business's circumstances, but it's worth considering how your management style & systems affect your staff's performance.

http://www.businessballs.com/mcgregor.htm puts it in a nutshell.

 

[snakeeyes121]

personally i'd be asking yourself if these walkouts are actually walkouts.

Having worked in catering for the best part of a decade, I can hand on heart say we have never had a single walk out in any of the places i've worked.

Sounds to me like you have some people paying in cash and it not getting to the tills.

Id be getting some hidden cameras put in, it will be extremely telling about where missing stock goes, why the till is down, and these mythical 'walkouts'

 

[snakeeyes121]

The trouble with that system is it kills the tips.

Utter nonsense

 

[Barnes Thomas]

I agree that an effective eons system will help to sort other things - coupled with the above it will create a useful check on staff who are entering.

 

[Bazza500]

Utter nonsense

Do you want to elaborate on that once you sober up?

 

[Frank Whittle]

The best pos system I have seen is one using key fobs for staff which tracks all transactions. Each pos till has two cash drawers and each staff has their own drawer. This means you can reward good staff on productivity and each staff is responsible for the money taken. Th epos system used Poswyse software with Tysso pos terminals with key fob readers.

 

[CultureMonkey]

Okay. Having run many pubs and bars, some with epos systems and some with old-fashioned systems, I have a few words of advice:

Draw up a list of Staff Rules. Get each member of staff to date and sign one, keep these in a file, with their contracts. *Tell* them, that as of the date on letter the rules will come in to force. On that list, state that any discrepancy in takings will be taken from tips. Sure it punishes the innocents but they'll be more likely to grass up the person who is causing them financial hardship now.

No money to be kept on their person. Bags and jackets to be left in staff room/ cellar.
No mobiles behind bar.
Allocate each staff member a number on the till and you can work out who is taking the most money.
Get the kitchen to keep every slip and ensure the server's name is on it. Compare to the till and when you do your stock, and you'll see who's shirking. Draw up a list of tasks that have to be done every day. And ensure staff know that they're okay to chat but they work too. There should be no glasses in the dishwasher, all tables should be clear and every shelf should be stocked up.
Sounds like you need to be a bit harder on your staff. It's a business. Not a charity.

 

[beasty]

Nice to read a thread where some useful information is posted in the end but someone who actually knows what they are talking about, its a rare thing