Business Link is dead – error riddled Gov.uk site takes over

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

An article on this on Accounting Web ....

Gov.uk gets off to shaky start


http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/article/new-government-website-govuk-launched-week/532785

 

[Philip Hoyle]

The word is spreading.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4243867

 

[bennallick]

I'm all for change, but the GOV should be putting alot more energy into new businesses and startups if we want to work our way out of our financial troubles. The GOV site is a pretty awful design and dosn't really help anyone. The USA is kicking ass in respect to new business, and they're sorting themselves out. Silly Government -_-

 

[Tom Egerton]

I worked in a very senior level post at a Business Link for five years before they became Regional. I took an exit because I could not hack the 5 restructures in five years. Having come from the commercial world I was seen as a maverick because I challenged projects and costs like the website and many other time and money wasting ideas that were more about collecting statistics than helping the businesses that really needed it. Hence I ended up back in the commercial world as a business adviser, mentor, trainer and consultant working for myself again!

The reason for 3 years costs, contracts for each area Business Link was effectively a license/franchise renewed by the Government Department every 3 years. Therefore everyone and everything was geared to bidding for a new contract/license at all levels every 3 years. So every 3 years a massive bidding process went on and the run up was a hiatus every time.

Thanks for your honesty Alan which confirms my earlier observations on the subject. Culling bureaucracy (of which quangos form a large part) is never easy and it's good to hear from the horse's mouth that many millions have been saved.

 

[Philip Hoyle]

Just noticed another

https://www.gov.uk/prepare-file-annual-accounts-for-limited-company/prepare-a-company-tax-return

"If you made a loss

A loss will reduce your Corporation Tax bill.

But if you’ve made losses that you can’t claim back in one tax return because they’re too large, you can either:

claim the loss against your previous year’s profit - you may get a repayment of Corporation Tax if you do this

claim the loss in your next financial year"

OK, so that clearly infers that you can only claim a loss to the next financial year. So completely misleading because losses can be carried forward indefinitely to future profits of the same trade in any subsequent year.

It also muddles the different sources of corporate income - it suggests a loss of one income set against a profit of a different income stream, but doesn't actually give any real information.

Dumbed down, dumbed down, dumbed down.

Why can't they accept that business tax isn't simple? By simplifying the website too much they're giving misleading advice that people will follow thinking it's correct because it's a legitimate government website.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

We were just discussing that one Phillip

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

And please DO NOT follow the VAT FLAT RATE info - it is dangerous!

https://www.gov.uk/vat-flat-rate-scheme/vat-flat-rates

Especially because .....

- it says ....

The rate is a percentage of your business turnover.

It SHOULD SAY ....

You calculate your VAT payable to HMRC by applying your flat rate VAT percentage to your 'flat rate turnover'. If you are still in your first year of VAT registration, remember to reduce your flat rate percentage by one.
Your flat rate turnover is all the supplies your business makes including all:

• VAT inclusive sales for standard rate, zero rate and reduced rate supplies
• sales of exempt supplies, such as rent or lottery commission - you don't have to make any partial exemption calculations
• sales of capital expenditure goods - unless you have previously reclaimed the VAT, in which case they must be accounted for at the standard rate and not the flat rate.
• sales to other EU countries
• sales of second-hand goods - but if you sell a lot of these, you may be better off leaving the Flat Rate Scheme and using a margin scheme

Don't include:

• services you've purchased from outside the UK that you've had to reverse charge
• disbursements - costs you pass on to your clients that meet the necessary VAT conditions
• private income, for example income from shares
• bank interest received on a business account
• the proceeds from the sale of goods you own but which have not been used in your business
• any sales of gold that are covered by the VAT Act, Section 55 - see the link below
• non-business income and any supplies outside the scope of UK VAT
• sales of capital expenditure goods on which you have claimed back the VAT you paid

IT IS A COMMON ERROR TO GET THIS CALCULATION WRONG


And

It says .....

If your business types aren't listed it (the flat rate) might be 12% - you can check this with an accountant.


No no no no

It should tell you to use the percentage for "Business services not listed elsewhere"

You might this this is pedantic until of course we have a vat rate change!

I have to say that the whole chapter on VAT Flat Rate is very weak!

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

And Phillip do you think this is misleading .....

Example
Your non-trading or dormant company's accounting reference date is 30 September. It starts business activities again on 1 May.
Make a set of statutory accounts for the usual period from 1 October to 30 September.
Send your accounts to Companies House and your Company Tax Return for the period 1 May to 30 September to HMRC.
After this, you'll need to complete accounts and Company Tax Returns from 1 October to 30 September each year.


from:


https://www.gov.uk/restart-a-non-trading-or-dormant-company


I think this sentence needs to be re-worded as it is misleading ...


Send your accounts to Companies House and your Company Tax Return for the period 1 May to 30 September to HMRC.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

I might add that I have only looked at the accounts and tax pages (not all of them of course!!!) - gawd knows what the rest of the site is like.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Does the bit in red make sense to people or am I reading it wrong ...

Should you be paying Income Tax?

To work out if you should be paying Income Tax, follow these steps.

1. Add up all your taxable income.
2. Work out your tax-free allowances. Your Personal Allowance and the Blind Person's Allowance (if applicable) will tell you how much you can earn before you have to pay tax.
3. Take your tax-free allowances away from your taxable income.

After step 3, if there's anything left, you're a taxpayer and must contact HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) if you're not already paying tax.


from:
https://www.gov.uk/income-tax/should-you-be-paying-income-tax

 

[RBS]

And why on earth its hosted in US not UK? Is this a way of showing how much goverment trusts and supports UK business? :|

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

And why on earth its hosted in US not UK? Is this a way of showing how much goverment trusts and supports UK business? :|

How do you know that?

 

[AT Accounting]

How do you know that?

IP address, but actually its hosted on Amazon in Ireland (Latitude 53 North Longitude 8 West if you must know )

Edit:

Forgot to say Amazon do host sites worldwide though so the data may be outside the EU (see various articles on managing your cloud data net wide)

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

IP address, but actually its hosted on Amazon in Ireland (Latitude 53 North Longitude 8 West if you must know )

Amazon host the gov.uk web site - are you sure :|:|:|:|:|:|:|

 

[AT Accounting]

Amazon host the gov.uk web site - are you sure :|:|:|:|:|:|:|

Yes Amazon Data Services Ireland Ltd to be precise....

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Yes Amazon Data Services Ireland Ltd to be precise....

I assume they are registered in Ireland?

How do you know this?

 

[AT Accounting]

Enter gov.uk in the whois box on this page:

http://www.cqcounter.com/whois/

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Question to Emer Coleman

Can you confirm that the site is hosted outside of the UK please? And it is is - why is that the case?

 

[kelvin1950]

Amazon host the gov.uk web site - are you sure :|:|:|:|:|:|:|

Yep, he's right!

Oddly, if you try to look up the domain name it comes up as:

This domain cannot be registered because it contravenes the Nominet UK naming rules. The reason is: the domain name contains too few parts.

You couldn't make it up!

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Yep, he's right!

Oddly, if you try to look up the domain name it comes up as:

Quote:
This domain cannot be registered because it contravenes the Nominet UK naming rules. The reason is: the domain name contains too few parts.
You couldn't make it up!

Classic ROFLMAO at that one

 

[AT Accounting]

Yep, he's right!

Oddly, if you try to look up the domain name it comes up as:

This domain cannot be registered because it contravenes the Nominet UK naming rules. The reason is: the domain name contains too few parts.
You couldn't make it up!

You couldn't make it up!

That is because, although Nominet have control over the TLD .uk they do not have control of any domain gov.uk or ac.uk which are controlled by JANET (I helped set up a schools website back in the day....).

Just for giggles you might be interested in the hosting of some other .gov.uk address. Business Link and Directgov were famously hosted in the USA. HMRC is UK as are most, if not all, goverment departments. However from memory they are all with different hosting companies.

I would assume that this is an example of each department tendering their own contracts rather than say, negotiating a good rate for the government as a whole.

And... to bring it back on topic. Several times I've tried to write a response to this thread, but each time I look at the blog from 9 October:

http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/10/09/exploring-user-needs/

and see all the little cards laid out on the floor, I answer my own questions.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

A great piece on this in Accountancy ....

Click to read about gov.uk

Please share it

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Now call me old fashion but when I was running large scale IT programmes, the user requirements phase involved real, live, proper, actual users.

As did the user testing phase.

I couldn't work with all of those pieces of paper – I get hay fever:redface:

 

[Philip Hoyle]

Oh my.

Just discovered another govt website aimed at small businesses. I thought I'd hit the jackpot to find where all that useful Business Link advice and information had been moved to.

It started with the Francis Maude blog on http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/10/16/gov-uk-the-start/ explaining the rationale behind gov.uk. Down at the bottom, there's a response (by Chris Watson of gov.uk) to a comment which states:

"If you're just starting up your business, we'd recommend checking out the Business in You campaign from the Government, http://businessinyou.bis.gov.uk/, which supports start-ups and growing businesses with all the practical help, advice and support they might need"


So I clicked the link to businessinyou expecting to see the old business link content.

What a disappointment when I clicked the "find advice" link only to find just 8 links for further information and they all point back to the gov.uk website!!!

What an absolute fiasco!!!!!!

:|

 

[EmerColeman]

Elaine
Here is the response to your query re hosting

Our site is hosted, and all the data stored, by a UK based company called Skyscape, we have blogged about all of this of our Digital Cabinet Office Website. Will Tweet you the link.

None of the site content resides on EC2. We use Akamai to distribute the site content around the world, so if you do a 'Whois' lookup for the domain the result will be Akamai and the location will be depend on where you are in the world.

We use Akamai to distribute our content around the world, so if you do a 'Whois' lookup for site the result will be Akamai and the location will be depend on where you are in the world.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Elaine
Here is the response to your query re hosting

Our site is hosted, and all the data stored, by a UK based company called Skyscape, we have blogged about all of this of our Digital Cabinet Office Website. Will Tweet you the link.

None of the site content resides on EC2. We use Akamai to distribute the site content around the world, so if you do a 'Whois' lookup for the domain the result will be Akamai and the location will be depend on where you are in the world.

We use Akamai to distribute our content around the world, so if you do a 'Whois' lookup for site the result will be Akamai and the location will be depend on where you are in the world.

Thank you - I am in the UK so I should get a who-is UK result then, yes?

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Here is the link re:the hosting info.

Can someone explain to me why it shows Amazon IE hosting it then ...

http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/09/18/introducing-a-new-supplier-skyscape/

 

[AT Accounting]

Ok that answers some questions thanks.

For those who wonder what Akamai is....

Basically they have a large number of servers round the world. When you request information from one of their clients Akamai look where you are based and route you to the server nearest/has the best connection to you.

Therefore if you are based in (say) Scotland and make a request from gov.uk Akamai will look and see you have a strong connection to their servers in Holland and serve the information from there.

Although the host data is stored in the UK it is mirrored around the world.

Akamai may be a familiar name if you have ever download Adobe Acrobat. Their software is packaged with that (and other software). It "helpfully" turns your PC into a peer to peer node so that if you have content on your computer (normally large files or images) relating to one of their clients, when it is requested by someone online Akamai can use your PC to serve the image....

Your thoughts on this may vary but you gave permission for this to happen when you clicked the T&C box without reading it... (one reason for using Foxit reader instead). Some security sites consider the peer to peer element naughty and give removal instructions some don't.

As far as I've seen on the Gov.uk site nothing there would be part of the peer-to-peer program.

So basically the site is hosted by a UK company, in the UK, but mirrored and distributed worldwide by a US company....

Edit:

Just to say I have simplified the above and what happens.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Ok that answers some questions thanks.

For those who wonder what Akamai is....

Basically they have a large number of servers round the world. When you request information from one of their clients Akamai look where you are based and route you to the server nearest/has the best connection to you.

Therefore if you are based in (say) Scotland and make a request from gov.uk Akamai will look and see you have a strong connection to their servers in Holland and server the information from there.

Although the host data is stored in the UK it is mirrored around the world.

Akamai may be a familiar name if you have ever download Adobe Acrobat. Their software is packaged with that (and other software). It "helpfully" turns your PC into a peer to peer node so that if you have content on your computer (normally large files or images) relating to one of their clients, when it is requested by someone online Akamai can use your PC to serve the image....

Your thoughts on this may vary but you gave permission for this to happen when you clicked the T&C box without reading it... (one reason for using Foxit reader instead). Some security sites consider the peer to peer element naughty and give removal instructions some don't.

As far as I've seen on the Gov.uk site nothing there would be part of the peer-to-peer program.

So basically the site is hosted by a UK company, in the UK, but mirrored and distributed worldwide by a US company....

A very clear explanation - you know how my mind works and what I may have been about to write next!

I still don't get why if I am in the UK and it is all hosted in the UK I have to get routed via Ireland.

Is Marlow nearer to Ireland - it must have moved

 

[AT Accounting]

Here is the link re:the hosting info.

Can someone explain to me why it shows Amazon IE hosting it then ...

http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/09/18/introducing-a-new-supplier-skyscape/

I woud imagine that Akamai rents space on there. Emer is slightly incorrect to say that no data is hosted there. Akamai mirror various things on servers all round the world. So although gov.uk may not host info there Akamai may.

 

[AT Accounting]

A very clear explanation - you know how my mind works and what I may have been about to write next!

I still don't get why if I am in the UK and it is all hosted in the UK I have to get routed via Ireland.

Is Marlow nearer to Ireland - it must have moved

Give me a chance, can only type so fast!

Data moves round the internet in vague seemingly random ways sometimes. If traffic is heavy along one route new traffic gets sent a different way. It maybe longer but somewhere some computer has decided that its quicker...

<Insert comments about Skynet and Terminators here>

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

I woud imagine that Akamai rents space on there. Emer is slightly incorrect to say that no data is hosted there. Akamai mirror various things on servers all round the world. So although gov.uk may not host info there Akamai may.

OK I have missed something - who are Akamai. They are not mentioned in the hosting article.

All bloody smoke and mirrors

 

[AT Accounting]

OK I have missed something - who are Akamai. They are not mentioned in the hosting article.

All bloody smoke and mirrors

I'd say think of them as a Satnav company for the internet. Companies pay them to make sure that customers always get the information they are looking for as quickly as possible. They help prevent downtime and holdups.

http://uk.akamai.com/

They were mentioned in Emer's post although not in the article about Skysvape

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Data moves round the internet in vague seemingly random ways sometimes.

Now I thought the data stayed in the same place i.e. on a computer and we accessed it via various networks.

I thought (searching my memory back from MSC Internet Computing Course) we accessed the computer the data was stored on - the data didn't come to us.

That is why I don't get the bit about the data not being stored in Ireland.

What is held in Ireland?

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

http://uk.akamai.com/

They were mentioned in Emer's post although not in the article about Skysvape

Questions for Emer ....

Right - so Akamai are not a UK company? Yes / no?

Do Skyscape contract to them? Yes / no?

 

[Paul_Rosser]

Now I thought the data stayed in the same place i.e. on a computer and we accessed it via various networks.

I thought (searching my memory back from MSC Internet Computing Course) we accessed the computer the data was stored on - the data didn't come to us.

That is why I don't get the bit about the data not being stored in Ireland.

What is held in Ireland?

Not so true now everyone is "cloud" based, the whole idea of the cloud is that you have no idea where your data lives and the provider can put it anywhere they like to provide redundancy etc, provided when you want to access it you can.

Anyone hosting in the UK on Amazons EC2 cloud will be hosted in Ireland as thats the nearest point of presence to the UK.

I know this as we had to deal with a company who hosted using Amazon and there was a potential issue with Data Protection, but as Ireland is in the EU was ok.

Amazon EC2 is currently available in eight regions: US East (Northern Virginia), US West (Oregon), US West (Northern California), EU (Ireland), Asia Pacific (Singapore), Asia Pacific (Tokyo), South America (Sao Paulo),

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

I think I am being a bit dumb here - the gov.uk site is hosted by these skyscapre people who seem to have outsourced it all to Akamai who use Amazon sites and there is nto one of those in the UK according to ...

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=275355

So the chain looks like ...

gov.uk (UK based) - Skyscape (UK based) - Akamai (not UK) - Amazon (not UK - nor paying much UK tax)

Have I got the chain right?

So to put it another way ....

gov.uk (UK based) - Amazon (not UK - nor paying much UK tax)

Or have I made that too simple?

 

[AT Accounting]

Now I thought the data stayed in the same place i.e. on a computer and we accessed it via various networks.

I thought (searching my memory back from MSC Internet Computing Course) we accessed the computer the data was stored on - the data didn't come to us.

That is why I don't get the bit about the data not being stored in Ireland.

What is held in Ireland?

Yes you access the data on another computer but its then copied over to you so you can see it on your screen. (Those are the temporary files that you delete when you clear out the data in your browser options). Thats why in the old days of 28.8k modems you would curse if you hit a page with lots of pictures on it that had no relevance to the content and had to wait as they sssslllloooowwwwllllyyyy loaded.

Its hard to be too judgemental about the use of a US company for the distribution service as the biggest all are. In fact I can't think of a British company that does it at all. (Waits for someone to correct me in 3...2...1...)

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Elaine
Here is the response to your query re hosting

Our site is hosted, and all the data stored, by a UK based company called Skyscape, we have blogged about all of this of our Digital Cabinet Office Website. Will Tweet you the link.

None of the site content resides on EC2. We use Akamai to distribute the site content around the world, so if you do a 'Whois' lookup for the domain the result will be Akamai and the location will be depend on where you are in the world.

We use Akamai to distribute our content around the world, so if you do a 'Whois' lookup for site the result will be Akamai and the location will be depend on where you are in the world.

Not so true now everyone is "cloud" based, the whole idea of the cloud is that you have no idea where your data lives and the provider can put it anywhere they like to provide redundancy etc, provided when you want to access it you can.

Anyone hosting in the UK on Amazons EC2 cloud will be hosted in Ireland as thats the nearest point of presence to the UK.

I know this as we had to deal with a company who hosted using Amazon and there was a potential issue with Data Protection, but as Ireland is in the EU was ok.

Amazon EC2 is currently available in eight regions: US East (Northern Virginia), US West (Oregon), US West (Northern California), EU (Ireland), Asia Pacific (Singapore), Asia Pacific (Tokyo), South America (Sao Paulo),

Totally confused - don't these two statements contradict each other :|:|:|:|:|:redface:

Emer

Can you check with Skyscape if the data is hosted in the UK please

 

[Paul_Rosser]

I think I am being a bit dumb here - the gov.uk site is hosted by these skyscapre people who seem to have outsourced it all to Akamai who use Amazon sites and there is nto one of those in the UK according to ...

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=275355

So the chain looks like ...

gov.uk (UK based) - Skyscape (UK based) - Akamai (not UK) - Amazon (not UK - nor paying much UK tax)

Have I got the chain right?

So to put it another way ....

gov.uk (UK based) - Amazon (not UK - nor paying much UK tax)

Or have I made that too simple?

Just because Amazon don't have a POP (point of presence) in the UK, it doesn't mean they don't have a company over here selling the use of it to UK based firms.

Any UK based company can use Amazons EC2 cloud for hosting.