Burglar alarms with CCTV

[Talay]

Our alarms are old and some cannot be guaranteed maintained so I'm looking for alternatives. We don't really have modern CCTV either so I want to address that.

For years, we've paid a company a significant sum of money to do, what I call, basically nothing. They go around the retail units once a year and justify their existence and fix stuff of course except that nothing even needs fixing really. Also, nothing can be done remotely.

Changing to something modern with them would be a £20k plus decision (multiple properties) and given technology is so advanced these days, I feel an off the shelf plug and play system which we can monitor, fix, or replace at will be far better.

I saw these cameras at Costco the other day, on offer: https://www.costco.co.uk/Home-Impro...y-Cameras-with-Smart-Motion-Sensors/p/1541348

But then I see things like this: https://www.costco.co.uk/Home-Impro...x6-WindowDoor-Sensors-and-x2-Cameras/p/388905

and I think that seems like a hell of an improvement on what we have.

Anyone gone DIY for alarms and CCTV ?

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

Before deciding on what system you want to put in, check your insurance policy - if your cover requires an alarm system, it will usually need to be installed and maintained by an NSI approved alarm company.

 

[WaveJumper]

As above having run multiple commercial locations you need to check with your insurers re their requirements and don't leave yourself open to voiding your cover. As a complete aside to this if your running several retail locations make sure all your fire safety equipment, testing and recording is all up to date.

 

[Legendary Workwear Ltd]

The people who come and do basically nothing once a year do basically nothing because they check the system once a year to ensure all the parts i.e. battery, detectors, speakers, outside box are all still in good condition and working, going for an off the shelf DIY solution may be cheaper in the short term, but what happens when these cheaper, unmaintained systems start to go wrong and you don't have someone coming every year to do basically nothing and ensure they are still running? I'm sure that if you called a few more companies you could get a much better deal than the 20k you've been quoted, and better kit than the costco cameras

 

[Nico Albrecht]

Your links are for toys not commercial applications.

Any decent system would never rely on over the air transmission as they can be yammed very easy

Serious solutions have:

Are cable based
Have backup power supply / ups
Recoding on cams temporary in case of DVR failure or disconnect
Use proper encryption on DVR system
Cost money
Check with insurance for approved devices

 

[WaveJumper]

And don't forget the dreaded data protection rules:

Data protection and your business

Data protection rules for businesses in recruiting staff, keeping staff records and using CCTV

www.gov.uk

 

[IanSuth]

As my wife is a CCTV tech support and pre sales engineer for a major distributor - I have heard her comments on the "mickey mouse" Costco systems whenever we are in there. (although usually they are Swann)

Also from her conversations I am aware you need to do it right - get the lighting wrong or don't spec the storage correctly and it doesn't matter what you spend on the cameras themselves - you will have a short loop of over/under exposed out of focus footage useless to anyone.

At least talk to a decent installer and get them to come and give you a quote - it might help you decide what you need/can afford

 

[Talay]

Before deciding on what system you want to put in, check your insurance policy - if your cover requires an alarm system, it will usually need to be installed and maintained by an NSI approved alarm company.

Oh yes, the insurance companies are well lobbied by the alarm companies to make sure you buy into their "maintenance program".

 

[Talay]

As above having run multiple commercial locations you need to check with your insurers re their requirements and don't leave yourself open to voiding your cover. As a complete aside to this if your running several retail locations make sure all your fire safety equipment, testing and recording is all up to date.

All the important stuff like that is outsourced and dealt with.

 

[Talay]

The people who come and do basically nothing once a year do basically nothing because they check the system once a year to ensure all the parts i.e. battery, detectors, speakers, outside box are all still in good condition and working, going for an off the shelf DIY solution may be cheaper in the short term, but what happens when these cheaper, unmaintained systems start to go wrong and you don't have someone coming every year to do basically nothing and ensure they are still running? I'm sure that if you called a few more companies you could get a much better deal than the 20k you've been quoted, and better kit than the costco cameras

You're absolutely right, they do nothing. Having had maintenance for many many years, there is almost nothing to go wrong and what there is is easily replaced. It does not need specialists.

The £20k was around 4/5k per unit not for one.

 

[Legendary Workwear Ltd]

You're absolutely right, they do nothing. Having had maintenance for many many years, there is almost nothing to go wrong and what there is is easily replaced. It does not need specialists.

The £20k was around 4/5k per unit not for one.

But if they didn’t come out and do nothing then you’d have more problems and bigger bills. Remember, prevention is better than the cure. If you want to cut corners and install shoddy security that’s great, but you can’t complain when it breaks down and you’re left with a bill to repair it, or your insurance doesn’t pay because it wasn’t at least installed to British standards. You don’t complain that the garage do nothing with your car every year do you?

 

[Talay]

Your links are for toys not commercial applications.

Any decent system would never rely on over the air transmission as they can be yammed very easy

Serious solutions have:

Are cable based
Have backup power supply / ups
Recoding on cams temporary in case of DVR failure or disconnect
Use proper encryption on DVR system
Cost money
Check with insurance for approved devices

Yep, toys, like dashcams, just toys. I offered examples, not the only examples.

Honestly, burglars into general retail don't jam systems, they smash windows and doors and go looking for money or things they can sell for money quickly.

Video almost instantaneously up to the cloud with hidden onsite recording and battery backup is not sophisticated.

Who the hell cares about "proper" DVR encryption, whatever that is this month. It is to catch Mr Thief or staff theft.

For sure systems cost money but they don't cost 5x or 10x what you can get off the shelf unless someone is trousering a large fat profit. That is my problem, not earning a decent amount but taking the pi55.

As for insurance companies, then yes, you are right, for many the lobbying to have systems maintained is compulsory but that idea was brought in when we were dealing with systems from yesteryear. For example, I have no idea tonight if any of my alarms are on or functioning and if the service was yesterday it could be non functioning for 364 more days. With a modern linked device and system, I will be alerted if it is not set or is not functioning and I can check it remotely in seconds from anywhere on the face of the planet.

I'd agree to a half way house but my current mob (CIA) wanted £500/1000 per unit to add remote monitoring and access for me. There is no way a wifi integrated faceplate costs £1000.

 

[Talay]

But if they didn’t come out and do nothing then you’d have more problems and bigger bills. Remember, prevention is better than the cure. If you want to cut corners and install shoddy security that’s great, but you can’t complain when it breaks down and you’re left with a bill to repair it, or your insurance doesn’t pay because it wasn’t at least installed to British standards. You don’t complain that the garage do nothing with your car every year do you?

45 years ago my parents had a Hotpoint washing machine. It cost perhaps a few hundred pounds but the annual "service" bill was about £75 which would be about £500 today !!!

Today, no-one has a washing machine service plan and you'd rightly be locked up if you paid someone £500 a year to "maintain" a washing machine. But we don't get scared or worry about it do we ?

The thing is that technology has marched on but not in the small retail alarm game. Charge the poor sucker five grand for a few hundred quid of kit and then slap him with a lifetime warranty contract he needs for his insurance.

It reminds me very much of the old tied agent financial services representatives. Huge upfront commissions, often worth 2 or 3 years worth of premiums and then the sting in the tail, the residual commissions which sucked more money out.

Or kitchen fitters, who claim their daily rate and high price for the job is because of their careful nature and enormous skill. That is until Mrs Mop down the road starts screaming why her kitchen hasn't been finished and then despite you having a theoretical 10 more days on your site, he wraps it up in 2 days and moves off. It's right then you know you've been scammed.

My garage change the oil, take the wheels off, do all manner of tests, change the spark plugs, tune the engine, download new manufacturer programs, .... the list goes on and on. The alarm people tap a few codes into the box, do a couple of walk arounds and area tests, look at the state of the battery and are on their way. The two are simply not comparable.