Boycott charity shops

[Duke Fame]

I think charity shops are driving up the retail rental market on account of them not paying rates.

Discuss?

 

[JoshB92]

I'd love to boycott the charity shops but for the fact that I've never stepped into one I agree with the principle though, the 'do-gooder' charity shops are essentially a con, what with their lack of rates, tax advantages, and considerable wages and benefits paid to the charity bosses. Oh, and they have volunteers queueing round the block to work in them for absolutely nothing

 

[SuffolkDesigns]

Half of my local high street now are Charity shops, way too many of them.

Oh, and they have volunteers queueing round the block to work in them for absolutely nothing

And they seem to have a deal with the Jobcenter to get all the people that are doing the slave labour, forced, work experience thingy that they have to do nowadays.

 

[ScottishInvestments]

Nonsense.

ScotInvest

 

[Walkol]

Don't think i've ever disagreed with a statement more!

Are most charities (especially those big enough to have shops) perfect? Absolutely not. But would I rather give money to them, where at least some of the money goes to a good cause rather than to some multi-national greed merchant of a company? Absolutely yes.

 

[deniser]

I don't think boycotting charity shops is going to make much difference. They don't exactly occupy prime retail space. They also raise a lot of money for the charities concerned who are doing good works (which would otherwise have to be paid for from other sources - hospices for example), save huge amounts of fabric from landfill and provide work experience for those who need to get some.

The charity shops are just filling unwanted space on the high streets.

The real reason for the decline in retail is much more complicated but the supermarkets - or the planners who allowed them in the first place - probably take a large share of the blame and then the offshore online retailers.

It is true though that it is not a level playing field between them and ordinary retailers. It is only rates and not rent which is stopping me from moving to a prime location.

 

[Duke Fame]

Don't think i've ever disagreed with a statement more!

Are most charities (especially those big enough to have shops) perfect? Absolutely not. But would I rather give money to them, where at least some of the money goes to a good cause rather than to some multi-national greed merchant of a company? Absolutely yes.

On the basis that most of the businesses they displace are SME indy retailers, that argument is hardly valid.

 

[gibby]

A mate has a shop on a high street and he is fed up as oxfam and the local church are selling quite a few of the same goods cheaper. Customers are complaing he is expensive as the charity shops are cheaper.

I dont use charity shops but do give to a few selected charities that I know.

I do get annoyed with charites, such as cancer research as so many ppl do put in effort for them while some of the staff get massive wages.
I dislike the emotional blackmail in the adverts and more ppl are dying of cancer now than ever before, despite the twisted figures they use.

Lots of other charites are more deserving of the money.

 

[Podge]

I volunteer for a big national charity in one of their charity shops. They are advertising for assistant managers but I would never be employed by them.

Funny old world isn't it.

 

[mhall]

Charity shops in one of our towns are complaining about the increase in "Vintage" shops - they say they are losing trade to them.

Very funny old world

 

[daveymck]

I don't think boycotting charity shops is going to make much difference. They don't exactly occupy prime retail space. They also raise a lot of money for the charities concerned who are doing good works (which would otherwise have to be paid for from other sources - hospices for example), save huge amounts of fabric from landfill and provide work experience for those who need to get some.

Not all do, in previous incarnation I did the accounts for our local hospice and half the shops were losing money but the charity trustees wouldn't hear of closing them.

 

[Billmccallum]

I think charity shops are driving up the retail rental market on account of them not paying rates.

Discuss?

Clearly a statement from someone who knows nothing about charity shops or the high street property market.

Most charity shops pay full rent (although they do get automatic 80% rate rebate), the one's that dont pay full rent only get reduced rates in properties that cant be let to trditional retaillers.

High Street rents are controlled by property owners not the tenants, the increasing greed of SOME landlords, in particular those with large portfolios, has led to the point we are at now, the middle of another recession, but landlords still looking to increase rents.

Charity shops dont just sell stuff cheap, yes it's their main job, but they contribute to the wider community. On the job training for young people and long term unemployed; volunteering for older people and people with disabilities getting them out of the house and giving them a purpose; taking on people on community service orders allowing them to pay back the community; and raising funds for essential services like hospices, cancer research, heart research and a host of other very worthwhile causes.

Supermarkets can buy products in volume and undercut small retailers, distributors/manufacturers can dictate the price they charge for their products, the fact that a sole trder can't buy in volume is not the fault of charity shop, its simply the state of the market.

 

[David A]

Not being a fashion junkie, I admit to buying a fair bit of my wardrobe from charity shops - and because they can't tell if any designer labels are counterfeit, I've got some YSL shirts dirt cheap.

Care is needed though, as some shirts have a price tag of £3.99 (Why not £4 for goodness sake!) yet have noticeably worn collars and cuffs. Can buy brand new for £5 or £6 from Primark!

 

[kulture]

The problem is when a town has too many charity shops. There is no problem when there are a few, but when they become a significant percentage, then overall footfall will decline and all shops suffer.

As for them paying the market rent, I am not sure about that either. Landlords with large property portfolios value them based on what they believe they can get renting them out. No landlord wants the value of their portfolio to go down. I wonder how many landlords charge charities the "full market rent" in their accounts and then offset this by a "donation" to the charity. Both win. The charity gets a cheap rent (effectively) and the landlord gets to maintain the market value.

 

[onlinevideo]

I think charity shops are driving up the retail rental market on account of them not paying rates.

Discuss?

Possibly, but then again business might be losing trade because shops sit empty either side?

 

[deniser]

Not all do, in previous incarnation I did the accounts for our local hospice and half the shops were losing money but the charity trustees wouldn't hear of closing them.

Surely that would put them very much in breach of their duty.

 

[daveymck]

Surely that would put them very much in breach of their duty.

Not sure what happened after I left but think their argument was the street presence helped with other fundraising and meant there were outlets to sell the lottery tickets they had. Was bit of a mess their accounts to be honest they had million pound building asset on the books that they didn't own as well I was working for a health authority that was taking over management of funding for them.

 

[Talay]

Think of a scenario where we simply removed all the charity shops. What would be the logical extrapolation of that ?

I'll hazard a guess that rents would fall and QED charity shops force rents higher than would otherwise be the case.

 

[PDC]

Given our highstreet runs about 20% charity shops and probably has 30-40% empty units I can't see this.

 

[Luolou]

"as some shirts have a price tag of £3.99 (Why not £4 for goodness sake"

David A. when I worked in Woolies years ago I was told that the 99p ending is to ensure people ring the amount through the till as they have to give you a penny change. Whereas if it was £5 it could easily be paid in a £5 note and simply pocketed. I don't know whether this is true, but I always thought it made sense....

 

[sarky]

I think charity shops are driving up the retail rental market on account of them not paying rates.

Discuss?

A couple of years' ago when I was trying to reduce my rates bill I used this arguement with the VOA. A guy rang me and said that they excluded the rents paid by charity shops when calculating the average rental price for a street (this in turn does to the rates calculation). I countered with what about the BBC and Job Centre (both near to me and they'e too stupid to negotiate their rents)? Again, public bodies were excluded he said. So, no I don't think you're correct.

 

[Duke Fame]

Clearly a statement from someone who knows nothing about charity shops or the high street property market.

Most charity shops pay full rent (although they do get automatic 80% rate rebate), the one's that dont pay full rent only get reduced rates in properties that cant be let to trditional retaillers.

High Street rents are controlled by property owners not the tenants, the increasing greed of SOME landlords, in particular those with large portfolios, has led to the point we are at now, the middle of another recession, but landlords still looking to increase rents.

Charity shops dont just sell stuff cheap, yes it's their main job, but they contribute to the wider community. On the job training for young people and long term unemployed; volunteering for older people and people with disabilities getting them out of the house and giving them a purpose; taking on people on community service orders allowing them to pay back the community; and raising funds for essential services like hospices, cancer research, heart research and a host of other very worthwhile causes.

Supermarkets can buy products in volume and undercut small retailers, distributors/manufacturers can dictate the price they charge for their products, the fact that a sole trder can't buy in volume is not the fault of charity shop, its simply the state of the market.

That is my point, yes they pay rent but in our local authority, pay no rates.

At the end of my wife's lease we renegotiated the rent down, however, not as low as we'd have liked because a charity was looking to get in. Our fixed cost is £10k rent, £4k to the thieving rates. The charity don't have the £4k. It's wrong that they have such an advantage

 

[Duke Fame]

A couple of years' ago when I was trying to reduce my rates bill I used this arguement with the VOA. A guy rang me and said that they excluded the rents paid by charity shops when calculating the average rental price for a street (this in turn does to the rates calculation). I countered with what about the BBC and Job Centre (both near to me and they'e too stupid to negotiate their rents)? Again, public bodies were excluded he said. So, no I don't think you're correct.

Again, that's not really my point. Because charities don't pay rates, they can pay more in rents.

 

[Chris34]

That is my point, yes they pay rent but in our local authority, pay no rates.

At the end of my wife's lease we renegotiated the rent down, however, not as low as we'd have liked because a charity was looking to get in. Our fixed cost is £10k rent, £4k to the thieving rates. The charity don't have the £4k. It's wrong that they have such an advantage

I see your point. Effectively the charity shop can pay more rent than you to the landlord but still have lower overall costs due to the rates being virtually non existent.

Your cost - 10k rent + 4k rates = 14k

Charity costs - 12k rent + £800 rates = 12.8k

Looking at this, if I was a landlord I know which deal I'd prefer.



Chris.

 

[Duke Fame]

I see your point. Effectively the charity shop can pay more rent than you to the landlord but still have lower overall costs due to the rates being virtually non existent.

Your cost - 10k rent + 4k rates = 14k

Charity costs - 12k rent + £800 rates = 12.8k

Looking at this, if I was a landlord I know which deal I'd prefer.



Chris.

Exactly, especially as charities have enough trustee money behind it to ensure they are also good payers, a new indie business isn't going to have that clout so landlords will always favour the charity.

Charge the charity full business rates, that way it's all fair and it gives teh high st a chance.

Alternatively, get rid of property based rates altogether

 

[FoxAccountancyServices]

I live near a small village, and one of the reasons that there are so many charity shops is because all the small traders are gone - thanks to the likes of Tesco, Asda, B&Q etc. In that local village, the council also put up double yellow lines on the high street, which just made it impossible for small businesses to attract business, let alone compete. And so came the influx of charity shops and estate agents.

Before setting up on my own, I worked for firm that specialised in auditing charities, so have worked with many, of varying sizes. The small local ones do good work, and struggle to stay afloat as grant funding is harder to come by, but the larger ones spend too much time having meetings and are usually on Council pay grades. Most of them do not get much special treatment. Bear in mind that small businesses get rate relief.

 

[sarky]

Again, that's not really my point. Because charities don't pay rates, they can pay more in rents.

Yes, you're probably correct. But I feel the same way about public bodies (HMRC, BBC, etc, etc). They don't negotiate when leasing buidlings, leaving landlords with the notion they can always wait for such a tenant for charity shop to pay full whack. A few years ago I tried negotiating a rent and the agent dismissed me with "the Land Registry have taken 10,000ft at £20 so why bother with your £12?". (The place is still mostly empty over 10 years later by the way.)