Bounce back loan

[mysteron69]

No personal guarantee is required to apply for the loan. That's different to ever being personal liable for the loan after the fact.

You could still end up personally liable to pay it if the company goes into liquidation and it's seen that the loan was abused or used outside of the terms.

If you normally pay yourself a wage of £10,000 and then give yourself a wage of £50,000 (what wasn't originally planned), which isn't allowed, you would be working outside the scope of the BBL and therefor could be seen to not have been working in the interest of the company.

So you can actually end up being personal liable.

The loan would be used wholly to pay down creditors of the business, unrelated creditors ie not a directors loan for example, so its basically changing one or more liabilities for the BBL...just wanted to make sure if it goes wrong for the new guys, im not liable in any way. non of the money would go to wages to me etc.

 

[Mr D]

No personal guarantee is required to apply for the loan. That's different to ever being personal liable for the loan after the fact.

You could still end up personally liable to pay it if the company goes into liquidation and it's seen that the loan was abused or used outside of the terms.

If you normally pay yourself a wage of £10,000 and then give yourself a wage of £50,000 (what wasn't originally planned), which isn't allowed, you would be working outside the scope of the BBL and therefor could be seen to not have been working in the interest of the company.

So you can actually end up being personal liable.

Only if investigation done and the person doing the investigation decides that.
If no investigation done then no one else bothers about it.
Companies do go under without any formal insolvency investigation.

 

[Aniela]

Only if investigation done and the person doing the investigation decides that.
If no investigation done then no one else bothers about it.
Companies do go under without any formal insolvency investigation.

Will be interesting to see how the insolvency companies handle insolvent companies that have outstanding BBL loans.

Due to the high risk of fraud potential of these loans, I wonder if investigations will be higher.

 

[Mr D]

Will be interesting to see how the insolvency companies handle insolvent companies that have outstanding BBL loans.

Due to the high risk of fraud potential of these loans, I wonder if investigations will be higher.

Possibly. But will insolvency companies be involved if the directors think they are at risk?
A chunk of insolvencies are DIY jobs that are free rather than formal jobs costing several grand. Same end result - dissolved company.

 

[jimbof]

Does anyone have the Starling T&Cs for the BBLS? I asked for it and they said I'd have to register interest which is not an application; but on reading that fine print on their site it seems that just registering interest triggers a credit check - which I'd rather not do.

 

[clamp1988]

Hoping someone can throw some light.
My 2018-19 returns show a t/o of 29k but for period 2019-20 is 66k, my book-kepper usually files my return around Dec.

Looking at 18/19 i can apply for around 7.2k
and
19/20 around 16.5k.

Ideally I would like to apply for around 12K.

ATM I am using a joint personal account and my bank currently dont offer BBL.

I already have Starling account which I think will be a better bet. So my question is if I apply to Starling for 12k with my 18/19 tax return will there be any issues. Anyone in similar situation?

Thanks

 

[Mr D]

Hoping someone can throw some light.
My 2018-19 returns show a t/o of 29k but for period 2019-20 is 66k, my book-kepper usually files my return around Dec.

Looking at 18/19 i can apply for around 7.2k
and
19/20 around 16.5k.

Ideally I would like to apply for around 12K.

ATM I am using a joint personal account and my bank currently dont offer BBL.

I already have Starling account which I think will be a better bet. So my question is if I apply to Starling for 12k with my 18/19 tax return will there be any issues. Anyone in similar situation?

Thanks

What was your turnover in 2019? Use that as a basis.

 

[clamp1988]

What was your turnover in 2019? Use that as a basis.

Turnover calender year 2019 was 55k, but the last return 2018-19 i can send them will only show 29K. just wondering if they will reject on that basis to say 12k I am asking for is more than 25% of 29k.

 

[johndon68]

Turnover calender year 2019 was 55k, but the last return 2018-19 i can send them will only show 29K. just wondering if they will reject on that basis to say 12k I am asking for is more than 25% of 29k.

My bank didn’t ask me to send them anything to show turnover, the application just had a box where you entered your 2019 turnover, no proof required.

john

 

[Mr D]

Turnover calender year 2019 was 55k, but the last return 2018-19 i can send them will only show 29K. just wondering if they will reject on that basis to say 12k I am asking for is more than 25% of 29k.

They are asking for 2019 - use that.
If they ask for pink lemons use that. Whatever they ask for use that - and cannot go wrong.

 

[clamp1988]

Johndon and MrD thanks for the reply.

As a matter of interest was this with Starling bank as a new bsuiness customer by any chance?

 

[anonuk]

Johndon and MrD thanks for the reply.

As a matter of interest was this with Starling bank as a new bsuiness customer by any chance?

Starling bank are asking for self assessment tax returns for sole traders in order to verify you're a legitimate business. As far as I know, they are not using the tax return to verify turnover.

The turnover they are requesting is for the calendar year (1st Jan to 31st Dec), not the 2018/19 tax year.

 

[clamp1988]

Starling bank are asking for self assessment tax returns for sole traders in order to verify you're a legitimate business. As far as I know, they are not using the tax return to verify turnover.

The turnover they are requesting is for the calendar year (1st Jan to 31st Dec), not the 2018/19 tax year.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[johndon68]

Mine was with TSB who I have my business account with.

 

[jimbof]

ATM I am using a joint personal account and my bank currently dont offer BBL.

I already have Starling account which I think will be a better bet. So my question is if I apply to Starling for 12k with my 18/19 tax return will there be any issues. Anyone in similar situation?

Note Starling do have a note on their process that not only do you have to have a Starling account, you have to be operating it as your main business account. I've started moving over a couple of standing orders, direct debits and a chunk of money to mine to make sure it looks like it is being used in that way.

The application processes are not transparent so it's impossible to know either way if they are using account activity as a criteria at all, and of course the situation may change as they get through the chunk of funds they're willing to loan under the scheme.

Before I incur any undue wrath; I'm currently with Metrobank who aren't able to offer yet and I was going to leave anyway due to their debacle over bank feeds to accounting software, so the move to Starling is genuine. I like the idea of supporting another new challenger bank even if Metrobank haven't been brilliant. Starling's bank feed updates instantly in Freeagent, which is awesome (even when Metrobank was working before the EU pulled the plug on the screenscaping service, it took a couple of days to update).

 

[Porky]

Note Starling do have a note on their process that not only do you have to have a Starling account, you have to be operating it as your main business account. I've started moving over a couple of standing orders, direct debits and a chunk of money to mine to make sure it looks like it is being used in that way.

The application processes are not transparent so it's impossible to know either way if they are using account activity as a criteria at all, and of course the situation may change as they get through the chunk of funds they're willing to loan under the scheme.

Before I incur any undue wrath; I'm currently with Metrobank who aren't able to offer yet and I was going to leave anyway due to their debacle over bank feeds to accounting software, so the move to Starling is genuine. I like the idea of supporting another new challenger bank even if Metrobank haven't been brilliant. Starling's bank feed updates instantly in Freeagent, which is awesome (even when Metrobank was working before the EU pulled the plug on the screenscaping service, it took a couple of days to update).

Jimbof,

Quick Books feed not updating and having to do a data dump is a real pain in the ars@. Not sure how long it will still take to fix but like you if they don’t sort it soon a move to Starling is in order.

 

[jimbof]

Jimbof,

Quick Books feed not updating and having to do a data dump is a real pain in the ars@. Not sure how long it will still take to fix but like you if they don’t sort it soon a move to Starling is in order.

I must admit one reason for going Metrobank was I had (and still have) free banking with them. Starling looks the same for what I need (no cash transactions in business).
From what I can see Metrobank are unlikely ever to get there with Freeagent. Freeagent aren't going to do anything to support the funky junk that Metrobank hacked together, and Metrobank I guess don't have any money left to do a proper Openbanking implementation.

 

[Porky]

I must admit one reason for going Metrobank was I had (and still have) free banking with them. Starling looks the same for what I need (no cash transactions in business).
From what I can see Metrobank are unlikely ever to get there with Freeagent. Freeagent aren't going to do anything to support the funky junk that Metrobank hacked together, and Metrobank I guess don't have any money left to do a proper Openbanking implementation.

Hmm, I’m going to take up again with my branch tomorrow. I don’t relish switching everything over as on balance, I find them fairly good and certainly significantly better than the main high street banks like Lloyds, HSBC, Nat West etc but they have seriously dropped the ball on these data feeds. I’m using Quick Books and it’s a fast becoming an admin burden, wasting time manually doing something that should be instant.

 

[jimbof]

Hmm, I’m going to take up again with my branch tomorrow. I don’t relish switching everything over as on balance, I find them fairly good and certainly significantly better than the main high street banks like Lloyds, HSBC, Nat West etc but they have seriously dropped the ball on these data feeds. I’m using Quick Books and it’s a fast becoming an admin burden, wasting time manually doing something that should be instant.

Doubt the branch will be able to do much for you.

I asked Freeagent about it a while ago and they said this:

"We have been working closely with Metro Bank through the development of their Open Banking platform.

Unfortunately, Metro Bank recently announced that they are pausing their development of their API standard. This means that FreeAgent cannot yet provide an Open Banking connection unfortunately as the service with Metro Bank does not yet exist.

Whilst Metro Bank have stated that their long term strategic goal is to still deliver the API standard solution, they haven't provided a timeframe. Once they have delivered this solution FreeAgent will look to provide a bank feed connection."

While Metrobank a couple of weeks later tweeted this:
https://twitter.com/MetroBank_Help/status/1239588678919507968
"Hi Jason, you will need to upload statements if FreeAgent chooses not to use our solutions, which it looks like have chosen not to do. FreeAgent will need to integrate via the MCI or service will be lost. ^TO

Basically Metrobank have gone their own way instead of implementing the standard and Freeagent (owned by Natwest) can't be bothered to implement it as it both nonstandard unique work they'd have to do for Metrobank and pretty junky (I understand if you used Metrobank's solution you'd have to log in to them every time you wanted Freeagent to grab transactions, so only slightly better than statement uploads).

It's a bit of a crock, really. Wouldn't surprise me much if their BBLS (if it ever happens) is similarly shambolico.

 

[J-Kristina]

Is it true that if you have a personal account with HSBC, you will first need to apply for the loan (done), then you'll need to apply for a feeder account (waiting), and then apply for the loan again from the feeder account?

Customer for 10 years with HSBC and yet still stuck on a waiting list because they are processing even non HSBC customers first.. Ugh

Saw some Lloyds customers who applied for a Business account today and already got the money deposited :|

 

[Newchodge]

Is it true that if you have a personal account with HSBC, you will first need to apply for the loan (done), then you'll need to apply for a feeder account (waiting), and then apply for the loan again from the feeder account?

Customer for 10 years with HSBC and yet still stuck on a waiting list because they are processing even non HSBC customers first.. Ugh

Saw some Lloyds customers who applied for a Business account today and already got the money deposited :|

My business account has been with Starling since late January.
I applied when they opened applications on 11 May.
The money was in my account on 12 May.
Some banks are efficient, some aren't.

 

[benjy365]

I applied today with Barclays, who we have a business account with, and got the screen saying:

Thank you (with a nice thumbs up)

The money will be in your account within one working day

We will send your agreement shortly.

All looks very good but I haven't received any emails or documents into my online bank. Is that really it? Nothing more to sign?

It all seems a bit too easy and now that the page with the thumbs up has expired I feel a bit anxious that I have nothing else to look to, other than hoping the money appears tomorrow which would be fantastic.

 

[ecommerce84]

I applied today with Barclays, who we have a business account with, and got the screen saying:

Thank you (with a nice thumbs up)

The money will be in your account within one working day

We will send your agreement shortly.

All looks very good but I haven't received any emails or documents into my online bank. Is that really it? Nothing more to sign?

It all seems a bit too easy and now that the page with the thumbs up has expired I feel a bit anxious that I have nothing else to look to, other than hoping the money appears tomorrow which would be fantastic.

That was how mine was with Lloyd’s. Only the confirmation email and the money was in my account the next day.

I’m expecting to receive a letter at some point confirming it.

 

[Victoria Kemble]

Does anyone know if it's possible with either a bounce back or CBIL to get approval BUT not draw the money down straight away?

 

[benjy365]

Well the whole process was scarily easy, the money was in my account within the day and I have still not even received any paperwork or anything.

I assume the methods for repaying will become a bit obvious nearer the time they start, I have a loan account added to our online banking portal now.

The ease and lack of checks does make me wonder how much abuse this system will get but then I suppose the intention is to stimulate the economy.

This is a life saver for now although if things don't change soon I don't know what will happen.

 

[jimbof]

>snip conspiracy BS that is just me not knowing how to use twitter...|<
In other news though, here are a couple of dogs in Metrobank scarves...

https://twitter.com/Metro_Bank/status/1265685631222644736/photo/1

 

[pete1992]

Has anyone had a loan from an HSBC feeder account yet?

 

[jxm28788]

Has anyone had a loan from an HSBC feeder account yet?

Nope. Asked for a feeder account weeks ago, was told they'd contact me in about 3-5 days. Phoned again yesterday and they said they were busy and couldn't give a timeframe. When I said are we talking days or weeks, they said "weeks"...

 

[pete1992]

Nope. Asked for a feeder account weeks ago, was told they'd contact me in about 3-5 days. Phoned again yesterday and they said they were busy and couldn't give a timeframe. When I said are we talking days or weeks, they said "weeks"...

Insane, i applied on the 5th or 6th of may and still nothing. Phoned up again and she said oh yes we are doing them just taking time... yawn

 

[Pot131]

Has anyone been refused by Natwest? After waiting weeks they’ve since refused me without offering any reasons why

 

[Pot131]

Has anyone been refused by Natwest? After waiting weeks they’ve since refused me without offering any reasons why

Really banging my head against a brick wall with Natwest, has anyone been refused and gone on to be successful elsewhere? I wouldn’t even know who else to go to as only have accounts with Natwest

 

[Nick Walsh Studios]

Starling Bank being trashed by LBC Radio callers tonight. Callers have complained to BritIsh Business Bank that Starling are carrying out credit checks which are not part of the bounce back application process. British Business Bank want swamped with complaints and are investigating Starling Bank.

Expert on LBC Iain Dale show says Starling should be getting the loans out which are 100% guaranteed by the Govt, and should contact British Business Bank to look at applications for Bounce Back Loans offered by Starling.

 

[jimbof]

Starling Bank being trashed by LBC Radio callers tonight. Callers have complained to BritIsh Business Bank that Starling are carrying out credit checks which are not part of the bounce back application process. British Business Bank want swamped with complaints and are investigating Starling Bank.

Expert on LBC Iain Dale show says Starling should be getting the loans out which are 100% guaranteed by the Govt, and should contact British Business Bank to look at applications for Bounce Back Loans offered by Starling.

Haven't we had enough of experts?

Not sure where the actual story is in this; the British Bank set this out in their FAQ - this is the basis on which the scheme is set up. If they wanted it to work differently, they should have set the scheme up differently. As it is it is for the bank to decide for themselves whether they want to lend to you or not, and if you don't like their decision the BB own FAQ says apply to another lender. There's no right to the finance.

Banks don't have a bottomless pit to lend out of. The financing comes from them, and they have to be on a sound footing with respect to their capital ratio regardless of the loans ultimately being guaranteed. Banks commit to lending a certain level when they sign up for the BBLS (which could be as low as £10million) and so long as they are not discriminating in any illegal manner, it is their money to do as they see fit.

 

[Nick Walsh Studios]

"SMEs who’ve used the Current Account Switching Service to switch to a new business account recently will have found their previous account closed, and their relationship with that bank ended.

This leaves those looking to access a Bounce Back Loan in a Catch-22 of being unable to return to their old bank for a Bounce Back Loan, and at the bottom of the list with their new provider."

https://www.altfi.com/article/6606_whats-going-on-with-tide-and-starling-banks-bounce-back-loans

 

[Ian J]

it is it is for the bank to decide for themselves whether they want to lend to you or not, and if you don't like their decision the BB own FAQ says apply to another lender. There's no right to the finance.

The loans may be underwritten by the Government but there will still be hoops for the banks to jump through before claiming on bad debts so it's only natural that they won't want to lend to companies that were already basket cases before the pandemic got under way

 

[Ian J]

"SMEs who’ve used the Current Account Switching Service to switch to a new business account recently will have found their previous account closed, and their relationship with that bank ended.

Not really surprising in the circumstances

 

[jimbof]

"SMEs who’ve used the Current Account Switching Service to switch to a new business account recently will have found their previous account closed, and their relationship with that bank ended.

This leaves those looking to access a Bounce Back Loan in a Catch-22 of being unable to return to their old bank for a Bounce Back Loan, and at the bottom of the list with their new provider."

https://www.altfi.com/article/6606_whats-going-on-with-tide-and-starling-banks-bounce-back-loans

I think you'd need to be of a wildly optimistic disposition to use the current account switching service to change banks on the basis of the possibility a loan. I'm with Metrobank and I just set up an account with Starling which I'm running alongside it instead and moved some money and transactions to them manually.

Not to mention that if they're using this service to switch in seeking a loan, that it seems very likely they've already been declined by there current bank, or they don't offer BBLS anyway...

 

[MrMFS]

Application with a bank is approved, yet to get a document to sign to receive funds. 7th working day now.

Should I send email to a bank exec or better not to and just wait?

 

[commadus]

Whats stopping a business taking the money and closing the business? It seems there is no appetite to chase businesses as it's bad PR.

Looks like an invitation to fraud.

 

[Ian J]

Whats stopping a business taking the money and closing the business? It seems there is no appetite to chase businesses as it's bad PR.

Looks like an invitation to fraud.

We have absolutely no idea how much appetite to chase businesses to repay their debts there will be as they won't be chased for another ten or eleven months.

Far from being bad PR the reverse is true as honest taxpayers won't like seeing that no effort is being made to chase up the unpaid debts