Bought an Online Store but did not get it

[Rako92]

Hi guys,

I have a serious problem here and hope you can assist. I will describe shortly to keep it tidy, any questions - please do ask.

I found an advert from a person selling affiliate web store, showing his profits so far, etc. I got in touch with him and discussed everything via email. He promised to give access to the site, the existing affiliate accounts (webgains and affiliatewindow) so we can build on top of that.

I made a bank payment to his account. Then I got a website with nearly the same design, different domain and no access to the affiliate marketplaces, he said I need to do everything from the beginning myself. He now replies to my emails shortly and without any replies to the questions I ask.

I found out the old website (the one I thought I am buying) still exists on his name (checked WhoIs), my website is also registered on his name. I checked and there is a company selling affiliate websites registered on his name as well, the same email etc! When I asked him before purchase he said he has nothing to do with them, but I checked only after I paid...

What should I do? Can I request a chargeback from my bank with the email I have and the discussion? I do not think he will be happy to refund me, after he lied he is not connected to this organisation, lied he will provide the affiliate accounts so we can step on already created commisions, etc?

Thanks a lot in advance! Would really appreciate any help.

 

[japancool]

You say you made a bank payment. If it was a bank transfer, then as far as I'm aware, there's no protection. If he is based in the UK (and I'm guessing he's not), you could pursue him in court.

These affiliate website scams have been going on for years. Chalk it down to experience, and move on.

 

[Rako92]

Hi, thanks a lot for the reply. Actually, he is from the UK. I read a lot about these scams, but in the advert and in our conversations he confirmed that the site has income, existing connections, etc. So I decided it is all fine and went ahead.

It was for 1000 pounds actually, with small profit per month, but still a good base to start from. Not a large amount to worth for a court, but still a bad loss...

 

[japancool]

You could take him to Small Claims court, but that will obviously cost you money.

 

[garyk]

You can use money claim online (https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome), which is effectively what the small claims court is. There is a fee to pay but doing it online is quite simple and efficient. No guarantee you will get your cash but worth a try.

Might be worth naming and shaming too.

 

[Turnkey Businesses]

+1 @garyk try to get your money back via the online portal.

it depends how the deal was put together though. when you say you thought you were buying the original website did he specificially state it was that domain name your were purchasing or just an affiliate store? he could just say that he was showing you an example (like going to a kitchen warehouse and viewing a kitchen on display, you will get a similar flat pack one delivered, not the one you have viewed). check the emails and read carefully what he said.

a bit late i know but you should always deal with registered businesses (like ourselves) when buying start-up's or atleast do the deals with individuals through sedo or flippa etc. never do a deal via email then bank to bank. if he was based outside the uk you would have no chance of getting your money back.

 

[Clinton]

This has been going on since the late nineties.

For years I've written about scams like these. I put together hundreds of articles, dozens of pages on website due diligence and even setup a forum for website buyers which now has the world's top content - from many, many sharp cookies - related to buying websites.

You've come across none of those articles, warnings, blog posts or forum threads in the research you did prior to spending a grand on something you know very little about?

 

[japancool]

These sites make money largely by selling copies of themselves. They used to be known as "multi-level marketing" schemes, and don't actually provide a product of any kind.

You know what they say about too good to be true...

 

[Rako92]

Thanks all for the replies, I appreciate them very much. I think we will be able to sort this out with the seller directly, but if not - the link shared will be much helpful.

@Clinton Sorry, I am not sure if I did come accross any of your articles. As said, I read a lot about potential scams. What was different here was that everything was described clearly, the link to the site I 'bought' was given, also screenshots. Even a list of what I will get after I pay, so I believed it is all truth.

@japancool Yes, I know about the too good to be true thing. However, to pay 1000 for a site with a small profit every month is not that good, it was less than 100 per month so far, so that all sound not really too good. But still, as I said, a good base to start from.

 

[Connexions]

In 10 months you will be break even then, seems ok? Doesnt sound so much a scam as your inital post.

 

[Alan]

However, to pay 1000 for a site with a small profit every month is not that good, it was less than 100 per month so far

I assume you mean it was sold as generating £100/month but actually generates zero as has no affiliate accounts set up.

. I think we will be able to sort this out with the seller directly

You will have to before to sort this out with the seller directly lodging a court/money-claim as the first question is what steps have you taken before issuing proceeding to reach resolution. Court is meant to be last resort.

So ask him to sort it out (add the accounts) or refund, if he refuses, ask him again, and keep all the 'evidence'.

 

[Clinton]

@Clinton Sorry, I am not sure if I did come accross any of your articles.

There are thousands of copies / blatant rip-offs of my material around so the chances are that, if you did your research properly, you've read my stuff (as regurgitated by some website flipping "guru" )

@Clinton As said, I read a lot about potential scams.

Did you really? And you decided to not use an escrow ... why? Are you aware this is a B2B purchase, i.e. you're not covered under the Sale of Goods Act.

My advice for years has been that there are almost zero sites in the lowest price brackets that are not bad deals (if not outright scams). The Flippa model has encouraged all kinds of so called "turnkey businessess" to fool people like you into thinking they are buying a business ..rather than a glorified template. And thousands get fooled every year.

At the bottom end of the market even I, with my two decades of experience buying websites, and hundreds of deals under my belt, would get scammed... in more than 99 out of 100 deals. What chance on earth do people like you have? Just stay away. Put this one down to experience or take him to court or whatever, but before doing this again either save up for a decent sized investment - where it's worth paying for professional advice (and a lawyer to act as escrow) - or go find a job!

 

[Rako92]

Yes, this is what I meant. It was advertised as generating less than 100 pounds profit per month (60-80 recently). This is not that bad to start with.

However, what I got is exactly as you said - zero income, because of no traffic, since no affiliate accounts linked to the site.

Thanks for the other posts as well, this all adds to my experience.

 

[BigTree]

@Clinton - Are your forums locked from public viewing as all I'm getting is a 403 forbidden

 

[Clinton]

Yes, sorry. Some work going on there at present. Should be back shortly.

In the meanwhile there should be caches and archive.org copies of threads / discussions around.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Clinton
I am reasonably web knowledgeable but never heard about you or your posts like I guess many millions

So why are you posting on here with nothing to help the OP but make yourself out to be a big head
Either help him with positive advice or disappear

 

[Clinton]

What does web knowledgable have to do with the price of fish? If you've been in website buying / selling, then it's relevant. Your post adds considerably less than the clues, hints, direct advice and links I've provided the OP.

 

[Turnkey Businesses]

The Flippa model has encouraged all kinds of so called "turnkey businessess" to fool people like you into thinking they are buying a business ..rather than a glorified template.

They shouldn't even be classed as turnkey businesses as they are very rarely businesses. they are typically mass produced websites with nothing else included, so at best should be classed as turnkey websites.

 

[Clinton]

Sorry, just noticed your name includes the turnkey term

Some background. Before Flippa was created, when the marketplace was still a part of Sitepoint, and hosted on their domain, we handful of regular buyers there used to refer to a whole swathe of low-end sites as turnkey businesses. You'll notice that in early discussions at the Sitepoint forum around buying / selling websites. (My username there was FruitMedley Post and early market participants - and maybe the likes of Chris above - know me only by that name).

The turnkey business term sort of stuck and became more widely used. I'm just as guilty of misuing the term as anyone else. In our defence, those sites back then were a lot less sophisticated than today's scams and would have passed for businesses. No offence intended to you.

I'm not into websites any more but it still upsets me that despite so many people like me warning about these scams and spending thousands of hours posting about them online ... that people are still falling for these scams hook, line and sinker

 

[Turnkey Businesses]

no worries @Clinton I didn't think you were having a go (or atleast i hoped you weren't lol), i just though i would highlight it for others just incase

i agree with you though, a lot of people get conned just by not having enough knowledge of how these things work. Our main competitors on google adwords and other places all seem to be those kinds of "companies" so its easy to see why people get confused, not to mention the history of the term turnkey businesses. we often get emails from people asking us to complete with the mass produced website companies on price. trying to get across that we offer real start-up businesses and what they offer are mass produced websites is sometimes difficult. some people just see the price.

maybe you could do an article on the difference between turnkey businesses and turnkey websites so we can share it with people who email us asking for us to compete with them. i would be happy to post a link to it on our website too if you would allow me to.

 

[Clinton]

I've written about it a few times in Sitepoint and the EP forum and elsewhere. If you find anything I've written on the subject and want to use it to warn other prospective buyers, great! Drop me a note if you need formal permission to reuse my material. You don't even need to link back to me

The more people who are warned the better.

 

[APW]

Clinton
I am reasonably web knowledgeable but never heard about you or your posts like I guess many millions

So why are you posting on here with nothing to help the OP but make yourself out to be a big head
Either help him with positive advice or disappear

How can you\ not have heard of Clinton Lee his website has been going for like 8 months now, that a lifetime on the web....famous now

 

[Clinton]

@APW, tip: Don't go into due diliigence or detective work

@Big Tree, my forums are back online now, but not open to new members, sorry. I locked the forums down about a year ago to new members and posts when I had a spell of bad health and was offline for a bit. However, about 60% of the content is an "archive" available to the general, unregistered public and you'll find TONS there from every well known player in website buying and selling! This site is the single largest and most useful repository of information on website buying/selling that you'll find anywhere. You can browse as much as you want for free - you won't even have to endure ads. It's always been a completely non-profit endeavor for me. The other 40% of the content is in areas like the VIP lounge (for the more experienced investors, website brokers, marketplace owners etc). That's free as well, but not open to the public.

@Turnkey Businesses: On one of my older sites - dating back about 10 years ago when buying websites was just taking off - we put together this glossary where we defined what turnkey meant to us but didn't differentiate between "turnkey website" and "turnkey business". The experienced-people.net forums are relatively new (will shortly be entering its sixth year) but should have much more info on this if you do a search for site:experienced-people.net "turnkey" .