BNI meetings

[NPeters]

Hi
I have attended a BNI meeting this morning and am considering joining but found the costs higher than I expected and also there is a commitment of attending every week which may be difficult at times. Has anyone got any experience of these that they would like to share?
Thanks

 

[DavidWH]

I am just going into my 2nd year in BNI.

I don't think they explained the reasoning behind the attendance to you very well.

They ask that all members attend each week, or send a substitute. Remember the people in the room are passing their customers & contacts to you, by showing up every week, shows you are serious, and committed to what you do.

Would you pass your biggest customer over to another member who didn't attend a weekly meeting? What would your customer think of you for recommending a company that didn't deliver what they promised, or missed a meeting?

The passing of referrals isn't critical as there are other things you can bring to the chapter.

The cost... that all depends on what it is you provide. A sweetshop selling 1/4 of bon bons for 50p, will need to sell a hell of a lot to recover the cost, whilst a web designer may only need 1 referral to recover the costs.

BNI works for me, but I certainly don't think it works for everyone.

 

[doi_swilkinson]

Hi
I am in BNI it works for some and not for others we have a guy in ours that does what Seymour does and he does well despite very little contribution.
What do you do ?,what were the synergies in the room relevant to your business , don't worry to much about the referrals I do not pass as many as I would like but I contribute a lot including chhief visitor host , secretary treasurer , and a few other things in fact this year as a reward for going beyond the call of duty i had our extra curricular meeting at Cheltenham races paid for by the chapter £220 , in return I picked 4 winners so they were all well pleased and we took some potential clients with us.
Regards

Stefan

 

[NPeters]

Thank you for both responses, we are in the security industry, i.e. CCTV, intercoms etc but the guy that we are possibly going to take the place of has moved out of the area but the business hasn't, so does this mean that the people in the BNI group that have probably built up a good relationship with him will still forward business to him and we may lose out. All in all the points that you have made were brought up this morning and I found everyone very friendly but I am more concerned that there may be referrals still going to the previous security person and not me, particularly if he has been there a few years. This morning there was a referral for him so I'm not sure what happened to it.

 

[DavidWH]

We have a Security & CCTV guy in our chapter.

The members will possibly refer you onto their customers & Contacts, as you are now in their chapter.

I still deal with companies that have left out chapter, if a new person joined in that group would I stop using them... possibly not, if I am happy, and there's no reason not to move... however I would still recommend the new member to my contacts.

 

[doi_swilkinson]

The question to ask there is why did his firm not retain the seat , if you had been at our meeting and there was a referral that was good for you it would have come to you , almost as a come on then join.
If it was not a genuine referral but a plant to make you think there was business then thats bad practice but some groups are very keen by hook or by crook to take new members.
We had 4 IT companies this morning but we were unanimous in the choice and that was because he was a nice chap , youngish and he had good connections- Air Ambulance , Gamblers Anon and a large client base for us to hopefully sell into.
We are not selling to the room but the rooms connections but of course there will be referrals from the room

Regards

Stefan

 

[S-Marketing]

My opinion, as ever, is if you need to pay to network there is something very wrong with your marketing strategy. For security / CCTV type business there is no excuse to need to resort to committing a chunk of your time every week to something like that.

What does it cost to be a member for a year?

 

[Ashley_Price]

I was in BNI for two years and, while I believe it does work, you need to make sure the Chapter you're is really going to work for you.

Unfortunately, my Chapter became very cliquey with the architect getting people to join that were in industries relating to his business. This meant they passed a lot of referrals between each other, but the rest of us got very little.

I didn't get enough to cover my annual fee (then £600) and weekly breakfast (nearly another £500 per annum).

We had a solicitor who was absolutely fantastic on referrals, giving out 6, 8 or even 10 quality ones (in other words, if she gave you a referral to someone, unless you messed up, you were pratically guaranteed of getting the job) almost every week! Yet, she was lucky if she got one decent referral a month. What made this even more amazing/shocking, was as a solicitor you would have thought those from the building industry would have needed her services.

Also, do you know for certain that the previous member in your industry has moved out of the area? Find this out from a source other than someone in BNI. It got back to me that my ex-Chapter was telling people that the reason I left was because I got too much work!?! I don't understand how that would be the case, I would hardly leave something that I was getting plenty of work from.

As others have said though, BNI like you to believe that if someone leaves a group no one is going to use them any more and will use the new member instead. This is rarely the case because, as you rightly say, if you have built up a great business relationship with one person, why would you leave them just because they've left the Chapter?

Funny enough (until I sold the call answering service) I actually got more business from the members of the Chapter, since I left it. I've now heard that the Chapter recently folded. I wonder if all those building industry members realised they could save money by leaving the Chapter and still refer to each other?

So, in short, really make sure the Chapter is a perfect match for your business. Think about this very carefully before signing on the dotted line. In fact, why not meet up with those in the Chapter that could use your business and start to build a rapport with them before joining, so that if/when you do, they are already "warm" to you.

I have found I actually have got more clients from free and informal events and online.

 

[RedEvo]

My opinion, as ever, is if you need to pay to network there is something very wrong with your marketing strategy. For security / CCTV type business there is no excuse to need to resort to committing a chunk of your time every week to something like that.

What does it cost to be a member for a year?

Although I take your point BNI is slightly different to other networks IMHO. I would argue (as an ex BNI'er) that you effectively extend your sales force to all members of your chapter. In normal networking you might get a referral but with BNI other members are out selling for you in a more forceful way as you've educated them in some detail about your business. At least that's the theory.

d

 

[Deleted member 27344]

NPeters - Have a peek at 4Networking:
http://www.4networking.biz

 

[Jet Virtual]

Glad I saw this post. I am planning on joining a networking group like BNI or 4Networking

Its tough because I wonder if anyone does any 'real' business at these breakfast meetings or do they just enjoy the social aspect of it.

If I want to socialize I have my wife and 2 children to do that with ...

Waking up early shouldn't be too much of an issue as I usually am up at 6:45 anyways (kids don't allow us to sleep later than 6:30)

Don't mind referring business as it makes me happy to help other businesses.

Will go to a few trial groups and see for myself.

Would be interesting to hear from someone who had done exceptionally well from one of these networking groups ...

 

[morrigan]

Glad I saw this post. I am planning on joining a networking group like BNI or 4Networking

Its tough because I wonder if anyone does any 'real' business

We joined a chamber networking group and found it to be useless in terms of cost and time.

Went every week gained 1 customer from it. Was a member for 2 years so what went wrong.

IMO the following: BNI's are great for Solicitors, Accountants, Marketing Companies. New start ups attend in the hope of gaining business when in fact you are fresh meat for the groups I have mentioned (No disrespect intended).

The above groups were not interested in dealing with us either because they considered us too small, they were already tied into leasing contracts. Sometimes the representative of the company was not the buyer and was reluctant to offer those details.

We demonstrated the services we had to offer and we converted 1 customer who was a senior member of the group. He stayed with us until he realised he was not going to get any business from us and he then dropped us like a brick.

So why did we not use this gentleman's company (accountant) very simple really. We already had an accountant who is 5 minutes walk from our office and we have a good relationship with him.

We would have loved to have supported the other businesses with our custom but how many solicitors, accountants, marketing solutions does a small business require?

We were happy to recommend them to others but felt totally disheartened by the experience. We are in the same marketplace as Viking etc and regularly beat them on price and provide a personal friendly service. So we were selling products that all of the above needed yet they refused to consider what we had to offer.

By the time we stopped attending I felt that I should have been requesting a spot at the Royal Variety Show. The time and effort put into describing the services we had to offer would have impressed the Guys at RADA or the Royal Shakespeare Company.

So my impression of BNI's etc is very negative. They are no doubt a good source of referrals for businesses in specific sectors but anyone else beware

 

[Steve Sellers]

I think the only people who benefit for the most part are the people that own that franchise. Don't be under any illusions the BNI itself is there to take your money not make you money. I am sure some people do do well out of it but then some people do well out of pyramid schemes. I know a lot of "fake" referrals are made and the manner in which they approach potential members is questionable in my opinion.

 

[Talay]

I love these threads. They put a smile on my face as people try to fathom out whether they are the unique ones who could actually get something from the bottom of this seemingly bottomless pit.

 

[garyk]

I think the only people who benefit for the most part are the people that own that franchise. Don't be under any illusions the BNI itself is there to take your money not make you money. I am sure some people do do well out of it but then some people do well out of pyramid schemes. I know a lot of "fake" referrals are made and the manner in which they approach potential members is questionable in my opinion.

Yes I think because there is alot of pressure to pass referrals some of these are questionable.

I've always thought the 'one member per profession' is a double-edged sword. Sure you want to pass leads to a person in the room but just because they are there doesn't mean they are any good.

I have also always thought why stick to local if you can provide your product/service to a wider audience. Get on the web, network and build relationships countrywide, heck even globally.

Gary

Gary

 

[Ashley_Price]

I would argue (as an ex BNI'er) that you effectively extend your sales force to all members of your chapter. In normal networking you might get a referral but with BNI other members are out selling for you in a more forceful way as you've educated them in some detail about your business. At least that's the theory.

Yes, as you say, that's the theory.

In the Chapter I was in, the building industry group were passing work between each other and occasionally giving "third party referrals" to others in the group (like me). However, when I followed up the ones that came my way, it often turned out that the person had only mentioned thinking about having a call answering service and - in many cases - certainly hadn't asked for me to contact them.

The difficulty was that the Chapter was winning awards and recognition in the region because of the value of the referrals passed (because the building industry were passing them to each other worth tens, if not hundreds, of thousands pounds.) So those on the leadership team were a little hesitant in making any noise about little else coming the way of other members.

Again, I am not saying all Chapters are the same, but you do need to research it very carefully before signing up, to ensure it's going to be right for you.

 

[Ashley_Price]

I've always thought the 'one member per profession' is a double-edged sword. Sure you want to pass leads to a person in the room but just because they are there doesn't mean they are any good.

Very true. When the printer left my Chapter, his position was quickly filled. I think most of us continued to use the old chap, because we had been doing so for years. I left myself soon after and I don't think the new printer chap stayed much longer, probably because he wasn't getting any work.

The fact that the Chapter I was in has recently folded, gives an indication of how cliquey it was.

 

[Steve Sellers]

Yes I think because there is alot of pressure to pass referrals some of these are questionable.

I've always thought the 'one member per profession' is a double-edged sword. Sure you want to pass leads to a person in the room but just because they are there doesn't mean they are any good.

I have also always thought why stick to local if you can provide your product/service to a wider audience. Get on the web, network and build relationships countrywide, heck even globally.

Gary

Gary

Spot on. The funny thing is before I was "approached" to join a solicitor friend who is also a member tried to get me to go along with a fake referral on 2 occasions! I said no, and as far as I am aware he is no longer a member. I think they look upon a lot of new business owners as "wet behind the ears".

There are far cheaper ways of networking, and doing real networking without giving your hard earned over to an American franchise business. I was speaking to a friend who owns a claims management company(personal injury) last night. He is the third biggest referrer of claims to a solicitors firm. He does no advertising whatsoever and all the claims come in from his friends, family and talking to people here there and everywhere.

CJD said in another thread that the biggest marketing tool you can use is yourself. And he's right, build your client list up yourself, don't be tempted by "fools gold". Offer a good service and people will refer you to other businesses and friends (I know that's working for me). I do little in the way of "advertising" but a great deal of my work is coming from repeat customers and referrals through customers - I have a large Christmas card list this year to say thanks.

I also think most networking "groups" dont work like they are meant to. Mostly a load of service based businesses like me scrabbling around to sell to each other. If you want to network for free, and also market yourself there are plenty of free alternatives (get involved in local charity work etc).

 

[doi_swilkinson]

Hi
I also have done 4networking , slightly different formula but i did get referrals leading to about £3k of net profit
Regards

Stefan

 

[S-Marketing]

I always tell clients that if you are paying to network, or do it as part of an organised group you are doing it wrong.

'Networking events', are completely the wrong way to network, in my opinion.

If organised networking in this country gets any closer to how David Brent would do it, we will end up with 'networking consultants'

 

[RedEvo]

'Networking events', are completely the wrong way to network, in my opinion.

Tend to agree. They are so often gatherings of people trying to sell, and not people authorised to buy.

d

 

[S-Marketing]

Tend to agree. They are so often gatherings of people trying to sell, and not people authorised to buy.

d

That's exactly the point. I know a recruitment consultant who has a very attractive assistant. He sends her to every networking event in the area, and she probably generates a good bit of work. Any cards she gets given in the process are just filed in the bin. She is there purely to sell, and has no interest or even authorisation to buy anything.

Networking should be used to build mutually beneficial relationships with people you want to build relationships with, not just because they are part of your group.

For service based businesses (web designers, consultants, trades etc,etc) networking is an excellent way to build your business, just as long as you don't do it as part of an organised group or event.

 

[Ashley_Price]

'Networking events', are completely the wrong way to network, in my opinion.

Rather than saying the event is wrong, I would say it is the way many people network.

Over the years I have seen some really disasterous networkers. They usually fall into one of three categories:

• Expect to get work instantly
• Try to "work the room"
• Rude and aggressive

At a recent event, I heard a lady say to a website designer "Stop trying to sell to me!"

Some particularly "memorable" networkers included:

A female accountant staggering around the event, telling everyone how drunk she was, and then asking people to give her access to their customer/client details so she could contact them about her service.

A Financial Advisor at a BNI chapter spent almost his whole 10 minute presentation telling "near the knuckle" and beyond jokes (even about beastiality)

A female photographer undressed until she was down to her bra and panties - to promote her "boudair photography". (Even if she had had the figure for it, it really wasn't appropriate while we were eating breakfast). To top it all even after her presentation she didn't leave any business cards - expecting people to remember her. We did, but not necessarily for the right reasons.

When done correctly, networking, whether at formal/informal events or groups, can lead to so much work that you don't need to advertise (apart from the annual subscription I pay to have a link in my signature on UKBF, I've never needed to do any paid advertising). If done really well, you can get new work even when not at "networking events" (I picked up a new client at Remembrance Day comemorations - no I hadn't set out to do this).

When I started on the networking circuit, like many people I tried to sell to the other members in the group, event or whatever. Now I let them buy! There's a huge difference

 

[garyk]

A female photographer undressed until she was down to her bra and panties - to promote her "boudair photography". (Even if she had had the figure for it, it really wasn't appropriate while we were eating breakfast). To top it all even after her presentation she didn't leave any business cards - expecting people to remember her. We did, but not necessarily for the right reasons.

Ha! Love it, you couldnt make this stuff up, still I guess it takes all sorts.

I'd agree with the sentiments of people rather than the event. Sadly networking does typically smack of desperation amongst members.

Gary

 

[Ashley_Price]

Sadly networking does typically smack of desperation amongst members

Yes, I agree... but because they're doing it wrong.

 

[S-Marketing]

Yes, I agree... but because they're doing it wrong.

If you are going to an event or function, specifically for networking, you are doing it wrong.

Networking can be a very powerful tool, not only for promotional marketing but also on a more strategic level.

I'm quite tempted to write a guide to networking for small business owners, but then cant help thinking i'd be dangerously close to being a 'networking consultant' who I joked about in my earlier post.

 

[Squid Juggler]

I've been in BNI for 8 years + now and it really comes down to the individual and how much they put into it. I agree that you can get cliques forming but I have only seen this very occasionally and they never last. You will naturally get groups of members who find it easier to get referrals for each other because they work for similar clients but overall my advice is do your 121 meetings and get to know people. Help them by listening to the help they need and help them to help you by educating them about the customers you want.

BNI is not for everyone but when it works well and you get a group of very likeminded and focused business people working to help each other, it is very effective.

In my time as a member I have received some fantastic referrals which is why I keep on renewing my membership. It contiues to pay dividends for me and my business as I get referrals most weeks plus I substitute at other chapters and that alone has seen me grow my personal network massively.

 

[internetspaceships]

IMO the following: BNI's are great for Solicitors, Accountants, Marketing Companies. New start ups attend in the hope of gaining business when in fact you are fresh meat for the groups I have mentioned (No disrespect intended).

That'll be very much like UKBF then?

 

[morrigan]

That'll be very much like UKBF then?

Not at all have been in Business 4 Years. I could choose to pay a UKBF membership fee and promote my business and perhaps I might in the future.
In the meantime I have learned a lot from the experiences of others on this forum and wish I had taken the trouble to seek it out sooner.

Everyone in business wants to promote their services and products the difference I would suggest between a BNI and UKBF is simple.

I learned early on when visiting business breakfasts that apart from some paltry breakfast offerings I was not going to learn anything.

UKBF have a forum that allows you to promote your businessi f you want (payment required). Of greater importance to me and others is the support provided with regards to employment law, finding suppliers, HMRC, Marketing etc.

I will never make a million but I am more likely to do so following the advice and listening to the experiences of others on UKBF than paying a fee to a BNI.

 

[Talay]

It strikes me that a lot of people looking at this would do better to look inwardly first and assess whether they actually have a product or service which is marketable to the other people who might attend such a gathering.

I understand reprographics for instance as everyone uses them to one degree or another but if you flog second hand tyres, I'm not sure how much business you would generate.

Some services will be largely homogeneous; I don't particularly care which solicitor deals with the purchase of a certain property for instance and equally one surveyor is largely the same as any other, unless you are in bed together on a deal. For these I can see advantages if you can "join the group within the group" but I think many will struggle to get much from it.

 

[Squid Juggler]

Not all networking events suit everyone but networking as a way to win business is a definite plus in my book. Find what works for you and do it consistently. I do a lot of networking and have a broad and varied contact network and as a result I consistently get good regular referrals.

Opportunities won't drop into your lap just because you've been to one or two meetings - you need to make the time and put the effort in to building relationships. Very often 'less is more' because it is difficult to keep in touch with hundreds of contacts at any one time but a smaller number of very strong personal relationships will pay you dividends.

 

[Ashley_Price]

It strikes me that a lot of people looking at this would do better to look inwardly first and assess whether they actually have a product or service which is marketable to the other people who might attend such a gathering.

Completely agree! I have told some people, when they have asked, that the two networking events I run wouldn't be suitable for them - they wouldn't be likely to get much business.

 

[Ashley_Price]

Very often 'less is more' because it is difficult to keep in touch with hundreds of contacts at any one time but a smaller number of very strong personal relationships will pay you dividends.

So true. You build a "deep network" rather than a broad one.

I use the example of a fishing trawler. If the fishermen were to use a very wide net, but it only reached just below the surface, it would only catch a few fish. But if they used a shorter width net but it reached much further down below the water's surface then they are going to catch a lot more.

So, you need to build deep relationships with a few people (preferably across different industries) so that they think of you when someone mentions needing your product or service. There's the saying that goes "It's not what you know, it's who you know", I would add to that "... more importantly, it's who knows you!" You might know 100 people, but they need to remember you when their friends or colleagues need what you do.

 

[morrigan]

Completely agree! I have told some people, when they have asked, that the two networking events I run wouldn't be suitable for them - they wouldn't be likely to get much business.

Ashley no disrespect but your business appears to be in the networking field.

I attended the same meeting religiously for nearly 2 years as previously stated. Gained 1 customer who dropped us when he got no business from us.This also coincided with us leaving the Breakfast Club and Chamber of Commerce.

We supply over 45,000 products and regularly beat Viking on price. So the marketplace we are should be familiar to everyone on here. We do not make promises we cannot keep and we do not sell aggressively. We seek to build long term relationships built on trust.

So we do not rush around aimlessly from one lead to another. Not sure where this is taking me but clearly there are people who are successful at these meetings but from the majority of posts the general perception appears to be negative.

As someone with a background in networking perhaps you can explain where people go wrong?

To be honest our network involves competitors who we consider friends who support us and we support them. We have also built good relationships with existing customers who will recommend us to others.

To me their recommendations and support has been more cost effective than paying to attend a business breakfast. The one positive that came for the BB was losing weight due to the Paltry offerings.

 

[DesignerNick]

Sometimes the network events are a bit like a cult, I have a couple of clients who were using people from their meetings before who didnt actually know much about what they were doing but they were nice people and their mate.

I would much prefer to recommend people I have used and know they do a good job.

A couple of my mates run businesses, they are my best mates but doesnt mean I would recommend them just because of that. They would have to w good at what they do!

 

[Steve Sellers]

So true. You build a "deep network" rather than a broad one.

I use the example of a fishing trawler. If the fishermen were to use a very wide net, but it only reached just below the surface, it would only catch a few fish. But if they used a shorter width net but it reached much further down below the water's surface then they are going to catch a lot more.

So, you need to build deep relationships with a few people (preferably across different industries) so that they think of you when someone mentions needing your product or service. There's the saying that goes "It's not what you know, it's who you know", I would add to that "... more importantly, it's who knows you!" You might know 100 people, but they need to remember you when their friends or colleagues need what you do.

Could you quote the little red book of selling anymore...........

 

[Jonathan Smith]

Yes, I agree... but because they're doing it wrong.

I am an Ex BNI member and BNI Regional Director so had access to the higher echelons of BNI

Ashley is correct the other potential problem is whether the directors of BNI believe your group is a 'Top' group. If they feel a group is not doing well or a challenge to turn round it will be left to fold or stagger on.

They will not put their best people in to fix it (at least not for long) This obviously has an impact on the effectiveness of the group and your sales.

My advice is go 2 - 3 times, try different groups, consider the groups with the most members (30+ ideally) look for complimentary businesses to yours. I also think you can get all you money back up to 28 days after joining if you are not satisfied.

Finally be fully aware of what is expected. It is not a turn up and hold out your hand it is net-WORKING (sorry
But be careful the better a member you are the sooner you will be coerced into additional roles :0

Good luck. Any specific questions please ask. I was there for 7 years :0

Thanks J

 

[Ashley_Price]

I am an Ex BNI member and BNI Regional Director so had access to the higher echelons of BNI

May I asked why you stopped doing it, especially as a Regional Director?

 

[Jonathan Smith]

May I asked why you stopped doing it, especially as a Regional Director?

Leaning against an open door here

I got caught up doing too much for the group as a member. As a director the way things were run, opinions and attitudes were not really in alignment with mine.

But in saying that I would recommend it to anyone serious about there business. It can work very well - use it and move on

I made an average of 7k a month from it.

Hope that helps

J

 

[Steve Sellers]

Leaning against an open door here

I got caught up doing too much for the group as a member. As a director the way things were run, opinions and attitudes were not really in alignment with mine.

But in saying that I would recommend it to anyone serious about there business. It can work very well - use it and move on

I made an average of 7k a month from it.

Hope that helps

J

85k a year from one source and you gave it up.........hmmmm