BNI is it worth it

[moodymare]

I have been a member of a BNI group for about 6 weeks. I work in HR and have become disillusioned about the way that the process works at the meetings. It seems to work well for manual trades - joiners, plumbers etc. but does anyone with an HR background have a good experience of getting real business from the process. I don't know whether or not to cut my losses. Any advice?

 

[AllUpHere]

My (professional) opinion has always been that networking in that way is a waste of time for anyone offering a professional service. Certainly for an HR consultant, there are much better ways to market your business.

 

[Ashley Wright]

I agree with AllUpHere - but every business is different, especially with the price tag that comes with BNI could you spend that money elsewhere and get more from it?

 

[GRDCredit]

I agree with AllUpHere - but every business is different, especially with the price tag that comes with BNI could you spend that money elsewhere and get more from it?

I dont agree with @AllUpHere - Networking works very well for me (very, very well) although I go to 4N rather than BNI

I do agree with the second part though - if you can achieve better results elsewhere then do that!

 

[Ashley Wright]

What is your niche though GRDCredit? For me I enjoyed BNI and got a lot of work/referrals from it! But one size doesn't fit all if you see where Im coming from

 

[afishinsea]

We ran with BNI for a year in 2012, it covered the cost of the membership, but was not profitable for us. There were other benefits however - we met a great printer who we still work with, and it improved presentation / articulation skills for some of the creative team (they found it quite daunting at first). The SEO in our group made a small fortune, so definitely works for some people, the group were also receptive of the need to improve their SERPs so he got good traction. A lot of success depends on the group you join and who is a member at the time - as well as any overlap from service providers - for example graphic design and website design were treated as separate categories while we were there, yet more than one member offered both services. Hope that helps.

 

[RedEvo]

Be specific. Go into meetings with specific requests to talk to specific businesses and see where that leads.

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[LMDServicesUK]

We have a business in our Chapter that provides specialist Legal and HR support, they have grown their business by 20 % year on year from their BNI membership over the last 2 years.

As mentioned by others it can and does work but it does depend on your Chapter / member mix / choice of Networking group, As for cost yes it may appear expensive for a year, until you get the price for a couple of Bus adverts, and then it is not so painful..

If you would like me to put you in touch with our member to seek their opinion please PM me.

Mark

 

[ethical PR]

My (professional) opinion has always been that networking in that way is a waste of time for anyone offering a professional service. Certainly for an HR consultant, there are much better ways to market your business.

Well I got a £300,000 contract through networking, and some smaller ones in the ten's of thousands and know lots of other people offering professional services that have done well from networking.

I don't think you can say all networking is a waste of time for all professionals services.....you get out what you put in. Like any other communications channel it's about carrying out research to see it is the right channel for the target audience you want to engage with. In the case of networking identify which groups might work best for you, and whether they are used by your target audience and look at what you want to achieve by being involved.

That said I think BNI is an expensive investment (time and money) and personally I found my chapter a deeply unpleasant experience.

 

[Faevilangel]

Networking works if you use it as part of your marketing, you can't rely on it to bring in work from the group but my tips after 5 years of networking are:

- don't sell to the room, tell the room who you want to speak to e.g. manufacturing companies with 20 staff
- suppliers can also be found from networking so be open to new opportunities e.g. team up with a lawyer so you have a recommendation to clients for contracts etc
- be open to working with others in your industry - my biggest clients are other webbies who don't do the specific skills I do
- when you leave the meeting at 8.45, don't forget the people you spoke to, connect with them on social media and arrange meetings outside of the network (networking is an introduction, make use of them).
- don't rely on one group / network, go to other networks in your area (I highly recommend 4Networking like Geoff (Geoff recommended me to them and been a member for 5 years).
- if you're not seeing positive things then change your "message", keep tweaking it till you see the results you want.

If you want real networking advice from guys that have done it then search up Stefan Thomas (networking for dummies) and Brad Burton (get off your arse) as they have books and do talks on networking.

Just a small thing, I am personally not a fan of BNI due to the one chapter system, this works fine for trades who only do local work but for businesses like mine and yours where we can work anywhere then you're being restricted on your reach with BNI. 4Networking you can attend any group across the UK for one "passport" which works out around the same cost as BNI but with a lot better reach. Do look up 4N and try it as it might give you that little variety.

I would personally say continue with BNI as it is great as a local networking but if you want national reach then you do need to do more networking.

 

[Twinkle Toes]

BNI is for people with Bloody No Idea how to market their business. A business isn't built on having to rely on unqualified leads from people you don't know, and having to hand over your contacts to a bunch of strangers who may, or may not, be competent. It's a very dangerous way to run a business as you stand a very good chance of losing clients you already have through those referrals going bad.

I'm not saying networking doesn't work, just if you are paying to "network" you are not networking. Networking isn't sitting in a room full of strangers once a week. Genuine networking is organic and starts by engaging yourself with other business and the local community, both professionally and socially. It takes a lot more effort but provides real, and more importantly, lasting and reliable contacts.

So moodymare, I would recommend cutting your losses with BNI and throw yourself into the local community instead. Also remember it takes years and not weeks to build up real relationships with other businesses/people so don't expect immediate results.

 

[LMDServicesUK]

I presume you have never actually been in a BNI group or if you had you had a very bad experience, what you describe is far far away from how BNI actually operates.

Agreed Networking in whatever form is not for everyone but IT WORKS for those that get it, and work at it, no effort in do not expect anything back..

Otherwise people would not invest time and effort into it.

 

[Faevilangel]

So moodymare, I would recommend cutting your losses with BNI and throw yourself into the local community instead. Also remember it takes years and not weeks to build up real relationships with other businesses/people so don't expect immediate results.

I don't agree with the rest of your post but this part I do, there is no shortcuts in networking, it can take weeks, months or years for someone to realise they need your service.

I have been doing networking for 5 years and some people I met 5 years ago only recently became clients because their needs changed.

BNI is a bit of a wierd one though as you have too give leads to the others in the chapter and they actively promote "we did £100k in referrals in 2014" but why should I be forced to give leads to someone I don't want too, just because they are in my chapter. I go to 4N instead of BNI as there is no forced referrals, I only refer work to people I want to and on my own conditions.

Networking does work when done right, Stefan Thomas who wrote business networking for dummies got that "job" from networking with the creators of the dummies series and speaks at a lot of business conferences around the UK from having met people while networking.

Networking is like any form of marketing or sales, make the right conditions and people will buy, you just need to get the right conditions in place, that could be the message, it could be the location or even just who you talk too.

 

[ethical PR]

I was a member of my local BNI and while some of the members were people I enjoyed spending time with, and it did generate some work, I left because of the bullying nature of the Area Directors.

The straw that broke the camels back was when an Area Director told off one of the members for not having done enough to get new members to come along to a new members breakfast and hadn't brought enough referrals in when his mother had died the week before (they knew this).

 

[Faevilangel]

I was a member of my local BNI and while some of the members were people I enjoyed spending time with, and it did generate some work, I left because of the bullying nature of the Area Directors.

The straw that broke the camels back was when an Area Director told off one of the members for not having done enough to get new members to come along to a new members breakfast and hadn't brought enough referrals in when his mother had died the week before (they knew this).

BNI groups are franchises (as you are probably aware) and they recoup their costs by new members and renewals, so they actively push members to refer other members (so they renew as they are getting work) and they also want you to actively recruit new members. Don't do enough of either and they treat you like the naughty kid.

I couldn't network in those conditions, I am there for my own business and not to help someone elses, that's another reason I chose 4Networking as they own all their groups and it's not upto members to refer new members but if you do they give you 30 days extension to your membership.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

BNI is a bit of a wierd one though as you have too give leads to the others in the chapter

I remember now this was the biggie for me. I too prefer to refer to those who I choose rather than be forced, simply because someone was first to pay an annual fee...

It doesn't cost you anything but a bit of time to keep in touch with your customers and prospects and drip free stuff that encourages them to buy or refer you... Of course you should also refer those you value without expectation...

 

[Laurentb]

Definitely agree with GRDCredit.. I only just started going to networking events (I am an IT contractor) and was planning on joining BNI later in the year (Looking at it as an investment). I have now however found so many other places to find networking events (meetup.com, local chambers, 4N...)

 

[garyk]

BNI is a bit of a wierd one though as you have too give leads to the others in the chapter and they actively promote "we did £100k in referrals in 2014" but why should I be forced to give leads to someone I don't want too, just because they are in my chapter. I go to 4N instead of BNI as there is no forced referrals, I only refer work to people I want to and on my own conditions.

Agreed, the forced nature of referrals to me means I question the quality of them. In my experience they are tenuous, not always of course but its alot of pressure to put on people.

 

[AllUpHere]

Well I got a £300,000 contract through networking, and some smaller ones in the ten's of thousands and know lots of other people offering professional services that have done well from networking.

I don't think you can say all networking is a waste of time for all professionals services.....you get out what you put in. Like any other communications channel it's about carrying out research to see it is the right channel for the target audience you want to engage with. In the case of networking identify which groups might work best for you, and whether they are used by your target audience and look at what you want to achieve by being involved.

That said I think BNI is an expensive investment (time and money) and personally I found my chapter a deeply unpleasant experience.

I didn't mean that networking is a waste of time, far from it. I'm a big fan of networking, just not in the form that BNI and similar do it.

I admit my post didn't make it particularly clear, but when I said 'networking in that way', I was referring to the BNI type approach (and actually most forms of networking you have to pay for), not networking generally.

 

[AllUpHere]

Agreed, the forced nature of referrals to me means I question the quality of them. In my experience they are tenuous, not always of course but its alot of pressure to put on people.

Networking works when you refer people you honestly believe are best for the job, not just because you happen to pay to network with them. In my opinion, the whole concept is wrong.

 

[garyk]

Networking works when you refer people you honestly believe are best for the job, not just because you happen to pay to network with them. In my opinion, the whole concept is wrong.

Agreed which highlights another flaw with BNI, as you only have 1 person per trade in the room doesn't mean they are there on merit, they could be useless!

 

[Faevilangel]

Agreed which highlights another flaw with BNI, as you only have 1 person per trade in the room doesn't mean they are there on merit, they could be useless!

yup, I actually enjoy networking with other webbies as we can talk "geek stuff" and then we can pass work to each other if we can't / don't want to do it.

BNI is like stepping back into the 70's school era imho e.g.

- you can't miss a meeting, if you aren't there then you need a sub and can only sub x meetings a year
- they can remove you from the chapter for no reason (one ex member got removed as the chapter "leaders" friend wanted to join and it conflicted with an existing member)
- only one person per industry, but they group the industried wierdly e.g. graphic and webd esign are the same (really)
- you have to give a minimum of 3 "referrals" per meeting
- you have to listen to a sales pitch by a member on why they are awesome etc
- you have to be "invited" to join, they only let you join if you are a "good fit" for the chapter.

I prefer to network when I want, refer who I want and not feel like a naughty child for not conforming to their rules.

 

[Feldon]

I have tried networking a few times although never stuck at it and must confess i have never been to a BNI meeting however i do know others who have and have been successful with it, that being i would not personally be happy with being under pressure to promote other peoples businesses all the time. Whilst i am happy to promote other businesses i like to be able to be free to do it when i choose to it.

I am gearing up to start a new business venture and am looking to get into networking and i have decided to go with 4networking as i like their structure and the way meetings are run, also you are allowed to attend other meetings around the country around the country. I have also purchased Stefan Thomas's Dummies Guide to Networking for Business, and from one of the post's above th "Get off your Arse" by Brad someone or other! 99p for kindle version.

 

[Faevilangel]

Get on the 4networking.biz forums as well Feldon, as Stef and Brad both use it on a regular basis, If you have any questions about 4N or networking Stef can be found on Twitter @noredbraces - I have personally known him for nearly 5 years (met him through 4N) and will go out of his way to chat to people about his experiences.

Brad also has 2 other books, Get off your arse 2 and Life.Business. Just got easier, all really good reads

 

[Feldon]

Yes i'm already on the 4networking forums and i am also based in Oxfordshire so i am sure i will bump into Stef at one of the local meetings at some point.

 

[Faevilangel]

I am just across the border in Gloucestershire and regularly hit the meetings in Oxfordshire including Witney so I may bump into you as well

Stef is hardly ever at the local meetings unfortunately as he is up and down the country doing all the other 4N meetings, but if you nudge him on Twitter he will let you know when he is at a certain meeting

 

[HazelC]

I dont agree with @AllUpHere - Networking works very well for me (very, very well) although I go to 4N rather than BNI

I do agree with the second part though - if you can achieve better results elsewhere then do that!

Disagree that networking doesn't work, it works really well when you do it right. I agree that BNI only works for certain trades but that is dependant on the other people in the group that you join.

You can't say it doesn't work because it's still in business for a reason - you just need to find a group that suits you and your business.

 

[DavidWH]

After 3 years we're finding the number and quality of new referrals has dropped dramatically.

The leadership time didn't renew 1 member, which prompted another to leave. Internally we have 1-2 regular referrals one passes low value, low quantity ones, the other less frequent but much more profitable for us.

Outside of the room, we do much better with former members, and their connections which then begs the question... why am I paying £1000 a year to deal with people no longer associated with BNI?

 

[Stephen at the BNI Forum]

The Marmite effect? Reading this its quite clear most of those who put BNI [or any other organised networking] down are running scared of it. Are you afraid of meeting new people? Does it worry you that people might expect you to make the same commitment they do? Are you prepared to adopt other peoples views or are you strong enough to form your own opinions?

Come on, BNI, 4N or any other organised networking is just one way to market. If you are doing your marketing correctly you will be doing lots of networking in organised groups, at the golf club, at the gym or in fact anywhere you meet other people who work.

Organised networking simply helps people remove the barriers and focus on business. BNI goes one step further and offers training to its members that they can use in their networking meetings to get more value out of their subscription. They can of coarse use that training outside of the meeting!

As for "you have to give your contacts away and bring referrals every week" that’s a load of crap. If you want to know the truth then come to a meeting of BNI, 4N or any of the others, in fact, visit them all and find out what works for you. The worst thing that could happen is you meet some interesting people.

I should declare, I'm a networking fan, I have tried them all but I like the BNI model and embrace it. In doing so I profit from it.

 

[DavidWH]

I was in BNI for 3+ years and recently left it.

BNI works best if everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet, what we found was that many didn't.
It was the same people who went on all the training events.

It was the same people who ended up on the leadership team just rotating around positions.

It was the same people passing similar referrals, to the same person each week. Do you really need to pass a referral everytime someone in the office orders a pack of pens?

For us externals referrals were rare, most were internal referrals from the same 3-5 members.

Despite some leaving before we did, and some still remaining now, we still do work with the same people.

Admittedly I wouldn't have met them without BNI, but the time was right to leave.

When dealing with some of the clients we do, the person who is ordering the print or signage isn't the person who will deal with the window blinds, or the IT systems, and have a procurement framework in place.

2 of my best referrals came naturally, one of our customers required a new ecom website, and spent over £20k with the Web company through, and the other was for a building extension, that a friend of mine asked for a decent builder on Facebook.

BNI is only as good as the group of people in it, and the team running it. Everyone has goals from BNI and like all marketing campaigns, if you're not getting the results it's time to try something different.

Nothing to do with fear of meeting people... just basic business, if the ROI is worth your time, money and effort, then sure sing from the rooftops, but networking is not a one stop solution for everyone.

 

[Stephen at the BNI Forum]

"if you're not getting the results it's time to try something different."
​

Yes, and no. The thread might be about BNI but the sentiment you have expressed here applies to all marketing and is fundamentally wrong. Have you considered the possibility that if you're not getting results it is because you are doing it wrong?


In any marketing you should be constantly referring to your KPIs and if they are not where they should be then don’t dump it as a channel, find out why it isn’t working and make the changes necessary to ensure your success.


If you need help with this just shout!



Stephen.

 

[DavidWH]

Yes but with BNI you're at the reliant on the oher members firstly having the connections, listening to your pitch and doing 1-2-1's, and then to get off their backsides and making the introduction. Which leads back to, it's only as good as the people sat in the room.

Our other marketing results yielded far better ROI.

 

[Jim Barker]

About fifteen years ago I helped set up the local BNI branch and managed to stick it out for a year before I (and most of the membership) got fed up with the dictatorial style of the group leaders - "You vill come every week", "You vill bring a referall!" "You vill recruit as many people as possible!!" I've been back a few times as guest or substitute at other groups and I still get the "happy clappy" feeling every time I go. Not for me. I also had a couple of lengthy spells in 4Networking, but despite going to as many different locations as possible, I picked up very little work from it. I'd go to a meeting in Edinburgh and find that 60-70% of the attendees were people from my local group. I made more out of one job from LinkedIn than I did form all my sessions at 4N. I also fell out bigtime with with Brad over cartoon artwork I did for a promised website/book which never materialised. I notice that from seven or eight groups in Scotland they are now down to about three. Wonder why...

 

[DavidWH]

I soon sussed out the only people "guaranteed" to make money from BNI, are the franchisee's. There were other concerns I had about the hierarchy, and the running of the region, which assisted my decision to leave.

Our group went from a healthy, happy 30 members, to what I believe is now almost a core group in 3 months.

 

[Jim Barker]

I was invited to a BNI meeting as a guest a few weeks back and there were SIX people there, including me and a "happyclappy" recruiting lady from head office. Well worth getting up at six on a Friday morning for.

 

[ADNattan]

I've been down to a BNI meeting as a guest. I wasn't actually convinced, although I did actually get some business from it.

The whole "you hire this whole room as your sales team" pitch doesn't sit quite right with me. I can see it working brilliantly for a couple of the businesses there - the plumber, the car rental specialist, etc - the sort of businesses that can be summed up in a sentence. But more specialised professions? If you're selling a very specific professional service, do you think a plumber who's listened to you talk for 60 seconds can sell it particularly well? Will his customers be that interested?

It must work well for some people, and the community aspect isn't to be sniffed at. But as a marketing option, I chose not to invest.

I was in BNI for 3+ years and recently left it.

Where were your group's meetings? Might have been the folks I met?

 

[Geoff T]

Was going to argue the sod about the "anti BNI" sentiments, then just read this... I'll let it argue the toss for me...

"It is almost impossible to overestimate the power of 1-1s. It is a cornerstone of our MSP training and a key feature of every single successful BNI chapter. However, it would be a mistake to view 1-1s in this single dimension. Indeed, we have barely scratched the surface of what has been described by some members as a Eureka moment in their “BNI life”. 1-1s create a bond between members that can literally last a lifetime. Members really open up their true personality and share their hopes and dreams – not just for their business but for their personal lives too, creating a real sense of bonding and friendship. Human nature is such that we do not like to break these bonds and that is a powerful foundation for strong membership retention. So have your chapters got 1-1s high on their agenda?

Here are a few tips to increase the number of 1-1s being done:
1. Advise your chapter to take the time to use the GAINS work sheet when conducting 1-1s for the first time.
2. Remind members of the advantages of 1-1s. Once they get to know a fellow member on a personal level, they are more likely to go out of their way to find them referrals and vice versa.
3. Choose 1-1 locations carefully. Consider locations that will provide less distraction (e.g. coffee shop) and make sure mobile phones are switched off."

If you can't see all the levels of help/development that come with BNI...your loss

If you're another "BNI rip off" then don't sass what made you possible.... Nuff said

If you want to get more business from word of mouth marketing - then try for yourself, and DECIDE for yourself...

*message ends*

 

[KM-Tiger]

But more specialised professions? If you're selling a very specific professional service, do you think a plumber who's listened to you talk for 60 seconds can sell it particularly well? Will his customers be that interested?

It probably works well for those who offer generic services with a large potential customer base. In a niche I don't see how it's going to work at all. Your fellow members may well not know any of your potential customers.

I was also put off by the hard sell tactics. If it's that good, why are you pressuring me in a way that makes time-share selling look tame?

 

[Geoff T]

It probably works well for those who offer generic services with a large potential customer base. In a niche I don't see how it's going to work at all. Your fellow members may well not know any of your potential customers.

I was also put off by the hard sell tactics. If it's that good, why are you pressuring me in a way that makes time-share selling look tame?

Not my experience of BNI @KM-Tiger - but then each group has it's own "personality" - for me, I prefer it up north, where we care about the people - not the referral rate...

 

[Twinkle Toes]

BNI, even the name is a misleading oxymoron as sitting in the same room with the same people week in and week out isn't networking.

Why would someone think it's better to meet other micro businesses rather talk to potential clients? I know, it's only one string of your marketing bow, but it's a limited, time consuming and expensive one.