Bailliff seized company car

[kbdavies]

Hello,
A car registered to a company of which i am the director was
recently towed away by a baillif over an unpaid PCN in Sept 09.
The vehicle has the company name as the registered keeper, and
my name as the contact. The PCN was in the name of the Company, but was incurred by
another employee.
The bailiff arrived early one morning showed me a Notice of Seizure, and demanded payment of the PCN.

I had not received anything before, and he had not visited the premises before, so I refused to pay,and eplained i needed to find out which employee got the PCN. He then attampted to clamp the car. When i resisted, he blocked the vehicle in the driveway, and called a tow truck, which removed the car.


As i was travelling that morning for 2mths, i instructed the company secretary to go and pick up the car.

The total amount paid for £700. The PCN was £110, Bailliff feed £355, and removal cost £175.
What are my rights, and can they do this?


Thanks.

 

[GRDCredit]

With respect I wonder how often bailiffs hear 'What, this is the first we have heard about a debt'

 

[directmarketingadvice]

What are my rights, and can they do this?

My understanding is that they can't take anything you use for business.

However, I may be wrong. Talk to John Galt at www.bailiff-mediation.com, beating the balliffs is his line of work. He may be able to get you that £355 back.

Steve

 

[bwglaw]

The vehicle has the company name as the registered keeper, and my name as the contact.

Then you should have received some correspondence in relation to this matter. Are the details on the V5 current?

The PCN was in the name of the Company, but was incurred by
another employee.

Employers can be liable for the actions of their employees. I presume you have a log for the company car to show who was driving it at the time? I also presume you have a clause in the employment contracts or a separate document (agreement or policy) in relation to using the company car and the consequence of any traffic infringements etc?

 

[SST]

My understanding is that they can't take anything you use for business.

I think this may be a common misconception, my understanding is they cant take anything that is 'essential' to the business, a car is not usually essential, it may be an inconvenience for the OP to take the bus or a taxi but thats as far as it goes.

If he were an ice cream man for example and the vehilce in question was his ice cream van then they wouldnt be allowed to take it as it would be essential.

 

[kbdavies]

My understanding is that they can't take anything you use for business.

However, I may be wrong. Talk to John Galt , beating the balliffs is his line of work. He may be able to get you that £355 back.

Steve

Thanks for the advice Steve, but i already called John (found him on the web). He could not help, as he says his area of expertise is in before the car is taken away.

 

[An Oasis]

Not sure if this company is useful http://www.pcn-appeals.co.uk/

 

[kbdavies]

Then you should have received some correspondence in relation to this matter. Are the details on the V5 current?

I did receive correspondence - on the day he arrived to clamp the car. It had the company's details (Redg owner) and mine (contact) on it. The V5 details are correct.
I also have a log of the drivers of the vehicle, and identified the culprit. Unfortunately, he left the company before i returned.
My gripe is I don't think the bailiff visited the premises before, and if he did, he did not knock on the door. I have heard bailiffs visit a location, but not the premises. This is to log the location on a vehicle tracker, to prove in event of court action that they did indeed visit the place. However, they do not physically go to the premises. This is done to rack up "visit" fees to add to the original PCN fine.

My wife (works with me) confirmed that she had seen the bailiff van lurking about a couple of days before.

 

[mcgovern]

I did receive correspondence - on the day he arrived to clamp the car. It had the company's details (Redg owner) and mine (contact) on it. The V5 details are correct.
I also have a log of the drivers of the vehicle, and identified the culprit. Unfortunately, he left the company before i returned.
My gripe is I don't think the bailiff visited the premises before, and if he did, he did not knock on the door. I have heard bailiffs visit a location, but not the premises. This is to log the location on a vehicle tracker, to prove in event of court action that they did indeed visit the place. However, they do not physically go to the premises. This is done to rack up "visit" fees to add to the original PCN fine.

My wife (works with me) confirmed that she had seen the bailiff van lurking about a couple of days before.

possible the bailiff called early 6am, still should have left notice from previous visit.



ask the bailiff company for proof of visits, complain if you have no joy fill out a form 4 at the count court,
as you have found out from CAG the vehicle was not exempt.

 

[mcgovern]

I think this may be a common misconception, my understanding is they cant take anything that is 'essential' to the business, a car is not usually essential, it may be an inconvenience for the OP to take the bus or a taxi but thats as far as it goes.

If he were an ice cream man for example and the vehilce in question was his ice cream van then they wouldnt be allowed to take it as it would be essential.

someone has been doing their home work

 

[Bri]

Having experienced this myself, not personally, but witnessed it. Apparently if the vehicle is parked on the public highway the bailiff can seize it, if the vehicle is on private land they have no powers to seize.

 

[mcgovern]

Having experienced this myself, not personally, but witnessed it. Apparently if the vehicle is parked on the public highway the bailiff can seize it, if the vehicle is on private land they have no powers to seize.

If its the address on the warrant then they can seize the vehice on private land

 

[Bri]

I wish they'd make their minds up. Gonna buy some sky hooks.

 

[bwglaw]

The Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 sets down provisions related to bailiffs and seizure of goods. Part 3, Schedule 12 and 13 being the relevant parts.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2007/ukpga_20070015_en_1

Only a certified bailiff can undertake enforcement in relation to PCN.

The Notice that was issued needs to be scrutinised. If the certified bailiff had acted beyond his authority/powers you have recourse to complain to a District Judge in the County Court that issued the Certified Bailiff's certificate.

 

[yorkshirejames]

Is it too late to get this put back to notice to owner stage? You may find http://www.pepipoo.com useful.

I'm not sure that they can block cars in though. Did this occur on your land?

Even if this employee has left, then (if your contracts are good enough) you can take them to the county court.

But there is only so much hassle you want to do for £700.

 

[mcgovern]

You can make a late statutory declaration

 

[bwglaw]

Even if this employee has left, then (if your contracts are good enough) you can take them to the county court.

But there is only so much hassle you want to do for £700.

I completely agree. An accessible policy relating to use of company cars should be enough if there is not a clause in the contract.

 

[Tommo]

Gotta agree, I'd ask the experts at PePipoo, sometimes I just find myself reading stuff on their forum, I'm quite savvy to motoring law and parking tickets now, which is rather useful

 

[yorkshirejames]

You can make a late statutory declaration

To the OP - if you don't know what the above means, can I suggest you get on the phone to Mcgovern, pay for 30 minutes of his time, and then do exactly as he suggests.

The above is probably the most critical piece of advice on the entire thread.

 

[Submarine Washer]

Problem is that these days the court official tends to reject "I've never heard about the fine til the bailiff turned up" late stat decs - only one in four are getting accepted, if that.

The council usually send in a witness statement saying the dates and times they wrote out to the 'defaulter'. And the court official believes the council, more often than not.

 

[kbdavies]

Thanks all. I filled out an Out of Time Dec, which has now now been rejected. Im now at the appeal stage - filling out form N244

 

[Submarine Washer]

Problem is that these days the court official tends to reject "I've never heard about the fine til the bailiff turned up" late stat decs - only one in four are getting accepted, if that.

The council usually send in a witness statement saying the dates and times they wrote out to the 'defaulter'. And the court official believes the council, more often than not.

That'll be £75 down the drain. Better to question the legal validity of the PCN and subsequent knuckle-dragging moron (er...I meant bailiff) action.

 

[benjamin_c]

i have found this information very usfull in the past, saved me and my friends a lot of money

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/parking-ticket-appeals

 

[Submarine Washer]

Northampton TEC are NOT a court. There are no judges, appeals, hearings, etc. There's 200 admin girls in a room processing stuff for their 'clients.' How can a court have a client?

TEC calls the councils its 'clients' (cos that's where their income comes from). It costs the council just £5 for the 'warrant' and there is a presumption of guilt.

TEC don't issue warrants, they just email the council the go ahead, who then hire the bailiff who then prints it in any way he chooses, sometimes in the back of his van.

The cops, if called, then say "Oh he's got a court warrant" and by saying so, assists the bailiff in his collection.

The bailiff does NOT have a warrant. What he has is a forgery written in legalese which can be challenged in a real court (usually only after paying it, cos the cops ain't gonna help you).

Kangaroo courts, crooked people in authority preying on people with no money, commission-only collectors, the presumption of guilt.

Hmmm.....a stable 1st world western democracy with the separation of powers?

 

[mcgovern]

unfortunately, its the world( country) we live