Con-conversly, there are many 'web designers' that have no training in creating an effective website
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stickyadvertising
- Original Poster
- #42
if any one wants a web designer, im getting my website done now from a very nice man from a website called frelancer. no money has to be paid untill i am 100% happy with the website. and so far he is doing a very good job. if anybody wants to see what its like so far just let me know and i will send you the link and his website so you can check out his other work.
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SparkCreative
- Original Poster
- #44
Con-conversly, there are many 'web designers' that have no training in creating an effective website
Absolutely. I think the problem is, everyone's diversifying because technology makes it superficially easy to do things that look ok on the surface for clients who don't know any better. All we can do is try to educate them into what is worth paying for and why, and stop trying to bluff in areas we don't really know about. Never gonna happen though.
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Interesting thread. I feel sorry for the guy as £1200 is a lot of money to lose. If he paid by credit card he might be able to get the money back though perhaps?
Funnily enough I saw my own web-site designer yesterday for a quick consultation at his office. I'd provided him with the content and we had a chat about the kind of thing I wanted. It's going to be a five page site with a blog and e-mail. I haven't a clue whether he is going to build it with 'code' or 'templates' that other posters mentioned but he has said I can ask for as many changes as I like until I'm happy.
He has a good website up where you can see examples of his work and where he lists his qualifications/experience and is charging me £500. I must admit I intially thought that was a bit pricy but after reading this thread I've changed my mind!
I've paid nothing up front and presumed I'd get an invoice when it's up and running. I've been in a similar postion to the posters friend in the post whereby I've paid up-front for a service and then been disapointed/ripped-off. I don't do it now. A deposit maybe, but not the full amount.
Funnily enough I saw my own web-site designer yesterday for a quick consultation at his office. I'd provided him with the content and we had a chat about the kind of thing I wanted. It's going to be a five page site with a blog and e-mail. I haven't a clue whether he is going to build it with 'code' or 'templates' that other posters mentioned but he has said I can ask for as many changes as I like until I'm happy.
He has a good website up where you can see examples of his work and where he lists his qualifications/experience and is charging me £500. I must admit I intially thought that was a bit pricy but after reading this thread I've changed my mind!
I've paid nothing up front and presumed I'd get an invoice when it's up and running. I've been in a similar postion to the posters friend in the post whereby I've paid up-front for a service and then been disapointed/ripped-off. I don't do it now. A deposit maybe, but not the full amount.
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£500's about right, and it appears you have found a reputable designer, which is always good to hear. Sounds like he's going to build you a Worldpress site with a modified template which can be pretty good if done well.
As Gareth said earlier, just because the underlying site technology might be free, it doesn't mean the designer's time is too.... Worldpress + template still needs time to install, test, modify, insert content, adjust to your requirements, test again, etc.
But it does sound like you are paying a fair price for what you're getting.
As Gareth said earlier, just because the underlying site technology might be free, it doesn't mean the designer's time is too.... Worldpress + template still needs time to install, test, modify, insert content, adjust to your requirements, test again, etc.
But it does sound like you are paying a fair price for what you're getting.
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Thanks for your comments Ampheon. They certainly appear to be a professional outfit. They (the two partners) are young Durham University graduates and seem to have gained a pretty impressive list of clients in a relatively short space of time.
I met them through my BNI chapter so I think it always helps if you have struck up a personal relationship with someone first and know that you will probably be seeing them regularly in the future.
I met them through my BNI chapter so I think it always helps if you have struck up a personal relationship with someone first and know that you will probably be seeing them regularly in the future.
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Dawg
- Original Poster
- #49
Is it fit for purpose? How would you propose establishing whether it is or isn't? Are you going to let the courts decide on a £1200 bill? Maybe risk bearing costs? That way lies madness.
Does it truly reflect the business? As above, how do you propose to establish this? And if you could establish it, is a true reflection of the business what is wanted, warts and all?
Trading Standards also might be a little busy to give this their full attention, and almost certainly, I'd say 99.99%, would not raise a prosecution or even threaten one.
There are a few choices for the unfortunate commissioner:
Try and negotiate. This seems to have failed but another attempt won't be costly. Give some ground as a face saver and salvage as much as possible.
Small Claims Court. Easy to use, less chance of a result than negotiation due to lack of agreements, (Judgment will probably be in the middle ground.)
Name & shame. Virtually always rebounds and everyone looks prattish. Perhaps not.
Send the Boys round. Best kept in the fantasy box along with the one about been captured by lesbian pirates. Not going to happen.
Learn an expensive lesson and move on. A right double booga with bitter twist, but worth considering.
Good luck.
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Big Pete
- Original Poster
- #53
Spot on..
Its time spent wether its wordpress joomla whatever .. before i even start a site , i would say at least 1 day is spent on working the SEO side out .. ie, working the structure getting the whole competition for the site firmly set ..keyword analysis etc etc.
Then we get into the design side , gather information so being honest the software used is only a small fraction of the finished job and price.
Time is the cost . If you buy cheap your only getting cheap simple as that ..if a website is squeezed to a price then somewhere along the way something had been cut.
And i bet you its the SEO side ..
Even though like i keep saying you can have the slickest sexiest website in the world but NO SEO then you may as well just stuck with kids twitter page , as nobody but your friends and MUM will ever see the thing Thats why my sites always get top in searches
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Joshua_44
- Original Poster
- #54
Well, that and your domain names are extremely relevant (www.greeting-cards-direct2u.com), just a tip for someone else.Thats why my sites always get top in searches
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mike1337
- Original Poster
- #60
No point to buy template online, because there are thousands(!) free, so, you will definitely find something that suits you. Unless you need something VERY specific.
500£ for WP theme?
On what grounds do you say that 500 is excessive for a WP theme?
IMO your comments in this thread have been rather belittling to web designers.
Wordpress is FREE, but a designers time isn't. I have seen some fantastic designs produced by very talented designers and they range between 2500-7500 which I think is more than reasonable for the time they have spent building the theme and the attention to detail they have given. Others must be of the same opinion as the guys im referring to are booked up until January of next year
500 for a custom wordpress theme is more than reasonable. Have you ever tried designing on a blank canvas? It's not as easy as it sounds. Sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't. You must also give consideration to the time spent liaising with the client, testing, adjustments etc..
It's a bit like me advising your potential customers with my extensive experience in CCTV systems saying there's no point in buying a new CCTV system from Rob because they are a complete rip-off and they can use the old JVC VHS Camcorder they have which they can use for FREE and just leave running all night. :|
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There have been many quotes posted here on forum for websites and price around this has been mentioned for complete static few page website ready to go. But paying 500£ just for template :| If you are super mega expert, then your skills might cost 500£ per template. Also, if you got mortage, loans etc, you cannot afford to work for cheaper than 500£ per template, then its also fine. Maybe its just me who thinks 500£ is too much?
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Its cheap for a custom wordpress template...very cheap. That doesnt even include setting up the site.
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But what have you got to say about dozen of web design companies on forum here who offer websites for 500£? If 500£ for template is very cheap, then 500£ for whole website is what?
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But what have you got to say about dozen of web design companies on forum here who offer websites for 500£? If 500£ for template is very cheap, then 500£ for whole website is what?
That theyre both cheap?
Take us for example, we have sites that cater for the guy with a small amount of money (a £500 site) and we have sites that cater for the small/large business's (in excess of £15k sites).
Get what you pay for.
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Given your lack of a brief, my price is the same as a car.
A WP theme can take 1 hour or it can take a 100 hours so you'll need to be a little more specific with your requirements there.
And it also depends on what your time is worth. If you've expensive overheads, it stands to reason £500 get less far than somebody who doesn't and this doesn't account for ability at all. It has to be taken in the full context of what the whole buying/selling relationship is and all of the components of those issues...
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Editing an existing template is different than designing one from the ground up. But even so, just editing a template for £500 is not nescessarily extortionate.
It depends on the amount of work involved, You are asking somebody to give up their own time and do something for you to improve your buisness. On the internet, the design of a website is a very important part of your business.
Whether a template is for wordpress or any other system is irrelevant to the designer, there is no less skill involved just because the underlying system is wordpress.
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Rob,
That's a fairly aggressive stance
Perhaps you could explain how you would go about finding a web designer.
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I`m aggressive when there is a risk my hard earned money can be wasted
I wouldn't call it aggressive, its just right way to do that. Its been a case here on forum few times as well, when web designer hasn't met customer expectations or tried to rip him off. So, ask for full portfolio and don't trust if they say they have just few because rest of them "any reason" and cannot be seen. Most of the times its because they are start ups or crap or they know they can only produce 19th century style web pages. Also, ask for detailed info what they did for every of web pages you see - he might be doing just little coding or drawn just header etc. If they are confident about themselves, they don't have a problem to show you everything they did and wont tell you stories. Its your hard earned money and you wouldn't like to spend it and then get Front Page style web page or even better - asking for extra money to hand over source files/domain or hosting access details.Its just my personal view on web design
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I think this is sound advice - you need to do your research, speak to the designers clients and work out if they are up to the job, and can meet your expectations.
As for no good web designers on this forum, well I wouldn't say that's completely true!
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