autistic employees

Riverbed

Free Member
Mar 7, 2013
81
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Hi
Does anybody have experience with hiring staff with autism?

If so, has anyone got any experiences to share? what to expect or what kind of challenges I might expect.

I have a requirement for somebody to do very repetitive work, but an attention to detail is required. There is plenty of separating and sorting to be done as part of the job.
I have done some research and found that for some within the autistic spectrum, this kind of work is ideal.

Also, does anyone know about grants or what kind of grants might be available for employers taking on autistic staff.
 
V

vividbusiness

I have done a lot of work in the past with people with Autism, what does the role involve exactly?

What I would suggest is meeting face to face with the prospective employee and ask them if they find anything difficult? they know there difficulties and if they are willing and able to work they should be willing to share this with you.

If you are willing to provide someone with Autism a job you are obviously committed to adapting to their needs, you just need to know what these are first and if this is possible.

People with Autism struggle with change so if the job requires routine and ritual which is regular then they should once settled cope well.

We are all human and we all have needs, its just about finding out what and how to fulfill them.

Best of luck and sounds like a really exciting opportunity, let me know how you get on and if I can be of any further help.

Sean Paul
Business Coach
Vivid Business Solutions
@sean_bus
 
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Riverbed

Free Member
Mar 7, 2013
81
7
I have done a lot of work in the past with people with Autism, what does the role involve exactly?

What I would suggest is meeting face to face with the prospective employee and ask them if they find anything difficult? they know there difficulties and if they are willing and able to work they should be willing to share this with you.

If you are willing to provide someone with Autism a job you are obviously committed to adapting to their needs, you just need to know what these are first and if this is possible.

People with Autism struggle with change so if the job requires routine and ritual which is regular then they should once settled cope well.

We are all human and we all have needs, its just about finding out what and how to fulfill them.

Best of luck and sounds like a really exciting opportunity, let me know how you get on and if I can be of any further help.

Sean Paul
Business Coach
Vivid Business Solutions
@sean_bus

Hi thanks for getting back.

I have taken on an autistic candidate and will soon take on another two.
They are highly functional guys and the first is an incredibly decent and reliable chap.
As you advised, sure the job is very routine, sorting out various materials for packaging, attention to detail is needed.

As you said too, I'm finding even a small shift in routine, can be tiny, this is a little stressful for him. Last week I changed his work order half way through the day and he lost his way slightly.

Overall though it's been a good move, excellent worker with a good attitude.
Makes for excellent planning from my side, I can give him something and he gets on with it until its done.
He's kind of like an arrow which needs aiming.
 
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steveelles

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Dec 14, 2011
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Yorkshire
My uncle is forever having to defend his autistic employees from the HR Department because they don't like the fact that they aren't "team players" and are rude. This is clearly a problem with HR and not the employees. I think we need far more autistic people working in R&D roles.
 
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Vectis

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Jun 10, 2012
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Isle of Wight
My uncle is forever having to defend his autistic employees from the HR Department because they don't like the fact that they aren't "team players" and are rude. This is clearly a problem with HR and not the employees. I think we need far more autistic people working in R&D roles.





Not entirely sure it's right to accept rudeness, whether by a disabled or any other person, towards other staff and/or customers.

Although you say the other employees accept this, it will only take one complaint to leave you in hot water.
 
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F

fairdealworld

Not entirely sure it's right to accept rudeness, whether by a disabled or any other person, towards other staff and/or customers.

Although you say the other employees accept this, it will only take one complaint to leave you in hot water.

Yes but there is a thin line between 'rudeness' and 'bluntness'. People on the Autistic/Asperger's continuum are often very blunt and don't understand that such bluntness may be perceived as 'rude' by some people. But equally other people may tend to see rudeness where non exists and just don't like things being stated as they are and not wrapped up in cotton wool.

Saying that what some would define as 'rudeness' should not be tolerated from someone on this continuum is as much a road to nowhere as saying that it cannot be accepted that someone in a wheelchair cannot walk or that a hearing impaired person cannot hear.
 
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Riverbed

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Mar 7, 2013
81
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Yes but there is a thin line between 'rudeness' and 'bluntness'. People on the Autistic/Asperger's continuum are often very blunt and don't understand that such bluntness may be perceived as 'rude' by some people. But equally other people may tend to see rudeness where non exists and just don't like things being stated as they are and not wrapped up in cotton wool.

Saying that what some would define as 'rudeness' should not be tolerated from someone on this continuum is as much a road to nowhere as saying that it cannot be accepted that someone in a wheelchair cannot walk or that a hearing impaired person cannot hear.

Ultimately- if the employer takes this kind of program on, they need to ensure the environment is suitable and the rest of the staff understand the situation too.

I'm doing it because the work really suits autistic workers and they have abilities
some others don't have.
I could never spend hours on end sorting and packing, the quality of my work would suffer. We all have our individual talents and employers have a duty to their businesses to get the best staff, and a duty to thier staff to place them in environments which they thrive.
It's also very good for businesses which have social inclusion policies.

It sounds rather clinical and patronising of me, I realise that and I hope I've not offended anyone- but honestly this has been a very good move.
It's completely changed my view of recruitment.

There is a job for everyone out there, everyone has the right to work
And patience is a really a virtue.
Having him there has also forced us to look at our processes more closely.
We have process charts now hanging on the walls in the warehouse.
We were far more haphazard in the past. Without realising it, this guy has refined us somewhat.
I'm keen to see how the other two fit in.
I hope there is no conflict and they manage to fit in as easily.
 
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Psl

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May 4, 2010
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Not entirely sure it's right to accept rudeness, whether by a disabled or any other person, towards other staff and/or customers.

Although you say the other employees accept this, it will only take one complaint to leave you in hot water.


Not to detract from the main point of this thread but being forthright/blunt can often be construed as rudeness by those are of, let's say, a delicate nature:) And it's easy to complain about someone that you don't understand and/or cannot accept as a fellow employee.
 
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Justin Smith

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Jun 6, 2012
2,744
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Sheffield
Yes but there is a thin line between 'rudeness' and 'bluntness'. People on the Autistic/Asperger's continuum are often very blunt and don't understand that such bluntness may be perceived as 'rude' by some people. But equally other people may tend to see rudeness where non exists and just don't like things being stated as they are and not wrapped up in cotton wool.

Saying that what some would define as 'rudeness' should not be tolerated from someone on this continuum is as much a road to nowhere as saying that it cannot be accepted that someone in a wheelchair cannot walk or that a hearing impaired person cannot hear.

Absolutely, as an amusing example my wife thinks that compared to women all men are a bit autistic, and she`s only half joking ! What`s more, I agree with her ! !
 
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@Riverbed
As mentioned by another poster, well done for thinking outside of the box regarding the social inclusion aspect, as some businesses/owners are not always able to look at this aspect for an employee with alternative
health/social problems due to constraints within their businesses etc, we are looking to do the same in the future with one of our businesses, so any updates would be great to have. We know it will be to suit the needs of our business, and that of any potential employee so everyone is happy.:)
 
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M

Merchant UK

In Engineering you can't really employ people with mental health issues, its not a discrimination thing but more of a health and safety thing. Especially when your working with 3 phase machinery (415 volts) Hot metal and Dangerous machinery.

However, I remember a visit from the HSE, looking at a Turret Punch i had, completely rigged with Light guards at the front, This HSE inspector wanted a fence put around the back as he stated that someone could climb over the Oil tank, Through the mass of cables and trunking and then Place their hands in the turret as it was punching!!

I told him what sort of people do you think we employ here? mind you still had to do it.

So unfortunately taking on these kind of people with illnesses is a big no go for me i'm afriad :(
 
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M

Merchant UK

Yes but there is a thin line between 'rudeness' and 'bluntness'. People on the Autistic/Asperger's continuum are often very blunt and don't understand that such bluntness may be perceived as 'rude' by some people. But equally other people may tend to see rudeness where non exists and just don't like things being stated as they are and not wrapped up in cotton wool.

Saying that what some would define as 'rudeness' should not be tolerated from someone on this continuum is as much a road to nowhere as saying that it cannot be accepted that someone in a wheelchair cannot walk or that a hearing impaired person cannot hear.

Is Bluntness the same as arrogant? its just i've heard the Arrogant word so many times but bluntness seems to be a watered down word for arrogant?

Its normal for when people first meet and not knowing the mental capacity of the Autistic/Asperger person to see them as being rude and arrogant, its not their fault, because they do not know that person has issues, and if your business has walk-in customers and your faced with a rude or arrogant member of staff then you would surely loose that customer.

If i went to Tesco's later for a hot cross Bun (Happy Easter by the way) and i asked someone where they were and was ignored despite asking several times i wouldn't be so happy and would see that person as either foreign and didn't understand what i was talking about or Arrogant and not giving a damn. I would never assume that perhaps that person has mental health issues, i don't think anyone would?
 
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M

Merchant UK

Apologies. I meant to put Rudeness in "". But you have hit the nail on the head. HR view bluntness as rudeness which places the person's job at risk. It is HR that need to understand the nature of Autism and how it is integrated into the workplace.

What kind of job would be suitable for someone like this?

I think we can safely rule out engineering and any jobs where customer involvement is paramount.

Also a position of authority or responsibility for others, i don't think they would fit in here too well either?
 
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Why would you want to risk taking on employees like this? I know this is going to sound heartless... and in a way it is really. But you're running a business, not a charity.

I can see multiple ways this turns out badly.

  • autistic employees offending customers, leading to lost orders
  • autistic employees offending each other, leading to issues in the work place
  • autisttic employees offending 'normal' employees - leading to employment tribunals
  • having to fire one of the autistic employees - the 'disability discrimination' card is instantly played

Sounds like a lot of hassle and potential expense, for absolutely no upside. So for me, I'm out.
 
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Why would you want to risk taking on employees like this? I know this is going to sound heartless... and in a way it is really. But you're running a business, not a charity.

I can see multiple ways this turns out badly.

  • autistic employees offending customers, leading to lost orders
  • autistic employees offending each other, leading to issues in the work place
  • autisttic employees offending 'normal' employees - leading to employment tribunals
  • having to fire one of the autistic employees - the 'disability discrimination' card is instantly played

Sounds like a lot of hassle and potential expense, for absolutely no upside. So for me, I'm out.

I suppose you don't hire women of child bearing, pmt or menopause age either.

I have known a lot of crap employees and they weren't disabled.

Meanwhile on the subject of autism, there is a wide wide spectrum with regards to their level of ability and so on and writing them ALL off stinks.

I know a young lady who was pals with my children and had sleepovers at my house who I consider it a privilege to know as she is so unique. She has autism and Aspergers, and ADHD. She is more intelligent than the average ten year old, more challenging, but infinitely more interesting! She will be a great addition in a suitable environment where her unique personality can flourish when she is grown.

Every child can benefit by knowing other children who have special needs. My best friend growing up was a person who had brain damage and went to a special school. She had various learning and emotional difficulties. I grew as a person because of her.

Maybe you could do with an introduction to some people with differences so you can realise how much they can offer you and how very rewarding it is for you to be ale to offer something to them.
 
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I suppose you don't hire women of child bearing, pmt or menopause age either.

I wouldn't hire a woman if I thought she was going to have kids soon, no. I run a profitable business but with very few full time employees... it would be disastrous for me to have a key employee out for 6+ months. And in the line of work I'm in, I can't just bring someone in to cover from a job centre advert or something in the weekend newspaper.

By the time I trained them up to do what I need, the employee they were replacing would be ready to come back, along with me having just effectively trained up a competitor for myself in what are some very specific ways to make money. So it would be an impossible situation.

Doesn't bother me as such... I'll just keep my business interests offshore, and run it how I feel like it rather than how the nanny state in UK feels I should :)
 
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Riverbed

Free Member
Mar 7, 2013
81
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Why would you want to risk taking on employees like this? I know this is going to sound heartless... and in a way it is really. But you're running a business, not a charity.

I can see multiple ways this turns out badly.

  • autistic employees offending customers, leading to lost orders
  • autistic employees offending each other, leading to issues in the work place
  • autisttic employees offending 'normal' employees - leading to employment tribunals
  • having to fire one of the autistic employees - the 'disability discrimination' card is instantly played

Sounds like a lot of hassle and potential expense, for absolutely no upside. So for me, I'm out.


I agree- business is not a charity. The opposite.

I don't have these guys facing customers- in the office or answering phones.
And not all autistic people are rude or 'blunt'.
There is an autistic spectrum and austistic folk have personalities..
But anyway back to the business v charity aspect...
I have had huge problem with staff retention with my sorters.
I've had school leavers and students in and out of the place and most of them have taken the p*** thinking they are too good for the job. They have cost me money and downtime more than anyone.

Also- the business support available is excellent, and also our processes have taken form.

So to answer your question- doesnt suit all roles... But in our case... It's been a very good commercial decision. My guy works like a machine all day long.
Deft not a charity here mate.

And let me tell you, having a socially inclusive workforce is good for winning big customers over. It's a box ticker.
 
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So to answer your question- doesnt suit all roles... But in our case... It's been a very good commercial decision. My guy works like a machine all day long.
Deft not a charity here mate.

And let me tell you, having a socially inclusive workforce is good for winning big customers over. It's a box ticker.

Precisely, it's a win win and food for your soul too :) we need more open minded peeps like yourselves.
 
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Justin Smith

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Jun 6, 2012
2,744
398
Sheffield
Why would you want to risk taking on employees like this? I know this is going to sound heartless... and in a way it is really. But you're running a business, not a charity.

I can see multiple ways this turns out badly.

  • autistic employees offending customers, leading to lost orders
  • autistic employees offending each other, leading to issues in the work place
  • autisttic employees offending 'normal' employees - leading to employment tribunals
  • having to fire one of the autistic employees - the 'disability discrimination' card is instantly played
Sounds like a lot of hassle and potential expense, for absolutely no upside. So for me, I'm out.

If you want to look at this in a strictly business / profit sense there are in fact good reasons for employing anyone who may find it difficult to get a job elsewhere, provided they can do the job, obviously. Assuming you have an employee who is valued then you don`t want them to leave do you ? You then have to fart about finding someone else and training them up, it`s all hassle you can do without. So if a potential employee might find it more difficult to get a job elsewhere that`s actually a good reason to hire them ! It`s obvious when you think about it and I have adopted this attitude to recruitment with a number of employees over the years and it`s worked for me.
 
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If you want to look at this in a strictly business / profit sense there are in fact good reasons for employing anyone who may find it difficult to get a job elsewhere, provided they can do the job, obviously. Assuming you have an employee who is valued then you don`t want them to leave do you ? You then have to fart about finding someone else and training them up, it`s all hassle you can do without. So if a potential employee might find it more difficult to get a job elsewhere that`s actually a good reason to hire them ! It`s obvious when you think about it and I have adopted this attitude to recruitment with a number of employees over the years and it`s worked for me.

I'm guessing anyone with the difficulties mentioned in this thread are doing a job that can be taught in a few days. Combine that with massive unemployment... its no big deal if employees leave as you can easily replace them.

For me, I'd rather find high quality staff and pay them so much they don't want to leave, rather than find people too stupid or disabled to be able to find work elsewhere.
 
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For me, I'd rather find high quality staff and pay them so much they don't want to leave, rather than find people too stupid or disabled to be able to find work elsewhere.

I’m sure your employees will be very satisfied knowing that you don’t care so much for them as a person - just how much money they can make you. Just watch your back, because loyalty flows both ways. Or doesn’t as the case may be.
 
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M

Merchant UK

I would imagine it depends what kind of business you have, If you want dustbin collectors or similar with little or no training then i guess its ok to employ people like this, after considering the implications it would have on your existing staff. Or an employee who i want to work like a robot on a production line, thats fine also..

If your more into like myself in engineering and require skilled and trained employees then no, theres no way on the planet i would employ someone like that, they'd be a danger to themselves and others, and after all every employer has a duty of care to existing employees.

I would imagine if an employer had a choice between one or the other they would go for the best one to suit their business, thats not being bad its just good business sense, especially in this day and age where there are so many people to choose from
 
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I’m sure your employees will be very satisfied knowing that you don’t care so much for them as a person - just how much money they can make you. Just watch your back, because loyalty flows both ways. Or doesn’t as the case may be.

One of my employees has an account on UKBF. The others don't, but know my user id - they're perfectly capable of reading my posts. (hi, if you're reading this :D)

At no point have I said I don't care about anyone as a person. But you show me an employer who doesn't view employees as a way to make money, and I'll show you a liar.

Its a two way thing... employees make their boss money and they're rewarded for that. I'm completely open with my employees on that front... work hard and do what I need you to do and you'll make a lot of money. Do the opposite and your time here is going to be a short one.
 
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Garage Runners

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Feb 7, 2013
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I have an autistic brother and have obviously been around a lot of autism and quite agree that they have tremendous value in the right work place.
Sadly my brother doesn't have the communication skills needed to be an active member of my team but a routine type manual job would be something he'd find rewarding and satisfaction in as he'd feel valued.
Where I am a reseller of new car parts, the look ups and catalogues would be too complex for a autistic member of staff yet I've recently opted for a disabled friend of mine as similarly he brings more to the table with regards to good attitude and gratitude for being given a chance.
I think employers should think a little more out the box for staffing as there is a lot more than pieces of paper with a name on for a lot of roles goingto eastern Europeans
 
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Riverbed

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Mar 7, 2013
81
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One of my employees has an account on UKBF. The others don't, but know my user id - they're perfectly capable of reading my posts. (hi, if you're reading this :D)

At no point have I said I don't care about anyone as a person. But you show me an employer who doesn't view employees as a way to make money, and I'll show you a liar.

Its a two way thing... employees make their boss money and they're rewarded for that. I'm completely open with my employees on that front... work hard and do what I need you to do and you'll make a lot of money. Do the opposite and your time here is going to be a short one.


Are you short or bald may I ask?
 
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Autism is a spectrum disorder. There will be some who are well able to manage in a social setting and others who would find it intimidating. Some autistic people are charming with customers, and others are defensive and frightened.

Try to look at the strengths of the individual, the support they would need and take it from there. ANd plenty of non-autistic people have issues too.
 
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Mpg

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Aug 18, 2009
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Hiring someone with Autism just because they are better equipped for that particular role makes me feel uneasy.

I can just imagine factories full of people with Autism doing the boring repetative jobs that "Normal" staff don't like.


Although I totally agree that everyone has the right to work.

Why am I torn?

People have mentioned Autism as a disability however in the instance in the OP it would actually be the opposite. It would actually aid them in they're work.


I still feel uneasy though at targeting staff with a certain mental health issue because they work better.

I keep picturing kids,elves, munchkins:p
 
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R

Root 66 Woodshop

With regards to Autistic employment...

Everyone has a role in their lives. If their role in life means that they can't function without order, without routine then they are automatically deemed as having "mental health issues"... Which I find completely out of order to be honest.

I have OCD I have to function in a way that people would view as being a "metal health issue" - However, I also suffer from depression... again another "mental health issue" does that really mean that I can't work for anyone? Does it really mean that people would view me as being "special" - No why should it?

Autism is an absolutely amazing spectrum of what people would consider as faults, i.e. unable to communicate in the correct manner or not being able to do this that or the other because they just won't understand... Well, Autism has news for you! - If you show someone with Autism a little bit of compassion and understanding, explain exactly what you want in the order that you want... as the OP has discovered you will find that people who are Autistic will function 10x better than any "normal" human being... Because they're made that way.

I've always believed that their are jobs out there for specific people, it's just the case of looking at the workload, examining it fully and then being able to marry two combinations together.

For example:

OCD = Cleaners, who better to clean for you? :D
Autism = Repetitive behind the scenes work. - I worked for a company many years ago who wanted give away folders collating it was by far one of the strangest jobs I had, but there was a chap who was Autistic working with us, he literately ran around the packing table and completed at least 8x more folders than we had... He saw it as a game, the sooner he got them done the sooner he could do some more... he was a joy to work with.
 
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Riverbed

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Mar 7, 2013
81
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Hiring someone with Autism just because they are better equipped for that particular role makes me feel uneasy.

I can just imagine factories full of people with Autism doing the boring repetative jobs that "Normal" staff don't like.


Although I totally agree that everyone has the right to work.

Why am I torn?

People have mentioned Autism as a disability however in the instance in the OP it would actually be the opposite. It would actually aid them in they're work.


I still feel uneasy though at targeting staff with a certain mental health issue because they work better.

I keep picturing kids,elves, munchkins:p

I have never referred to any of my staff as mentally ill - I don't believe he or the other two chaps are mentally ill.

But I understand where you coming from ...it made me uneasy at first too - but I reconciled myself to the fact these guys are pretty intelligent and have families and enjoy what they do.

wheres the harm in this? its mutual support, they get to work, and I get to have good workers because of the types of people they are - we are good to each other.

its just how one views it from a pragmatic, realistic and fair point of view.
 
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R

Root 66 Woodshop

Hiring someone with Autism just because they are better equipped for that particular role makes me feel uneasy.

By your logic hiring someone who can drive a HGV simply because they can drive would be perfectly OK? - No, you hire someone who is better equipped for that particular role - i.e. has experience and more importantly the relevant licence.

I can just imagine factories full of people with Autism doing the boring repetative jobs that "Normal" staff don't like.

Businesses all over the world has been doing this for years to be quite frank... i.e. taking on Polish/Russians because they'll work their backsides off for minimum wage/cash in hand...


Although I totally agree that everyone has the right to work.

Why am I torn?

Probably because you're looking at Autism as an illness/hindrance and not a difference.

People have mentioned Autism as a disability however in the instance in the OP it would actually be the opposite. It would actually aid them in they're work.

Read above :)


I still feel uneasy though at targeting staff with a certain mental health issue because they work better.

Read above :)

I keep picturing kids,elves, munchkins:p

Kids were used years ago to clean chimneys... what's the difference now? ;)
 
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sjbeale

Free Member
Business Listing
I find some of the discussions related to this post quite discriminatory as an independent HR person. You need to choose your employees for the skills they bring to the workplace. You can't discount someone because they have autism, mental health issues or are of child-bearing age! During the recruitment process if you visibly discount someone because they may have a disability you may end up an employment tribunal. I have represented quite a few autistic people at tribunal as they can be misunderstood in the workplace. One was discounted at interview the other was unfairly selected for redundancy.

An organisation should use an occupational health advisor to assess what adjustments might need to be made in the workplace to employ someone who is autistic or with mental health issues. Occupational health will advise whether they are suitable for a particular role or not provided they are given a job description and sufficient information so they can provide advice.

For an employer who refuses to employ a woman of child bearing age or sacks a woman because of her pregnancy or going on maternity leave deserves all they get in an employment tribunal. Read my blog on the subject http://sjbhr-hrblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/pregnancy-and-maternity-discrimination.html
 
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Mpg

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Aug 18, 2009
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By your logic hiring someone who can drive a HGV simply because they can drive would be perfectly OK? - No, you hire someone who is better equipped for that particular role - i.e. has experience and more importantly the relevant licence.



Businesses all over the world has been doing this for years to be quite frank... i.e. taking on Polish/Russians because they'll work their backsides off for minimum wage/cash in hand...




Probably because you're looking at Autism as an illness/hindrance and not a difference.



Read above :)




Read above :)



Kids were used years ago to clean chimneys... what's the difference now? ;)

No not at all If you read my post again i stated that it would be beneficial in the OP's instance.

I think if you take things back to basics we all have our own mental "issues" but we call it "personality"

I commend the OP its a big step. It shouldn't be a big step though.

I just feel uneasy about targeting a certain group because they have a disability/ability/Issue/illness.

I can't even tell you why I feel uneasy maybe its the unknown.

Your Correct I would hire a HGV driver because he has the suitable skills to drive a HGV.


I think maybe I feel uneasy because the OP has specifically targeted a specific criteria rather than opening the position up to all and choosing the best candidate.

Not that I'm having a pop at the OP. I think he's doing something very worthwhile and its a shame many other business owners wouldnt do the same. Although circumstances are different.
 
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Riverbed

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Mar 7, 2013
81
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'I think maybe I feel uneasy because the OP has specifically targeted a specific criteria rather than opening the position up to all and choosing the best candidate.'




complete rubbish, the position was open up to all, which is why the best candidate(s) got the job. I haven't excluded anyone, quite the opposite - ive included everyone - what nonsense i'm reading here.

are you calling this an affirmative action recruitment?

what criteria do you think I had for the job ?
 
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