Apostrophe question when company name ends in an "S"

[Onlyme123]

Hi,

I am wanting to write to a company that ends with an "S".

I am wanting to say: "I interacted with some of Smiths's design team", however I'm not sure if it should be "Smiths's" or "Smiths'"

Can anyone suggest the right way?

Thanks!

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

Smiths'

 

[Darren_Ssc]

Your

 

[TotalWebSolutions]

"I interacted with some of Smiths' design team"

 

[Noah]

I think you have a bigger problem with "interacted"; that smacks of pomposity, pretension, and waffle. Perhaps you should say what you actually did.

 

[Ray Newman]

Writer/editor here.

There's no firm rule for whether to add apostrophes to names ending in S -- Ed Balls's is as valid as Ed Balls'.

The problem is, both ways kind of look wrong, and will probably be regarded as incorrect by about 50 per cent of people reading.

With your specific example, though, I'd probably restructure the sentence to avoid the question altogether: "I interacted with some of the design team at Smiths."

 

[BustersDogs]

"I interacted with some of the design team from Smiths"

Always easier to avoid the problem. Otherwise I can recommend 'Lapsing into a Comma' as a good reference book.

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

Otherwise I can recommend 'Lapsing into a Comma' as a good reference book.

Also "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" is a great book.

 

[TheoNe]

Whilst some companies and organisations do use use an apostrophe before the S - such as 'McDonald's' - the safer option would be to structure the sentence to avoid the problem altogether as advised by the previous contributors.

I hope this helps.

 

[Ray Newman]

Also "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" is a great book.

If we're recommending references, my favourite (there's a copy next to my desk right now) is The New Oxford Style Manual. Answers about 80% of questions on grammar, punctuation and spelling that come up as I go about my work.

And The Complete Plain Words by Sir Ernest Gowers is great for ridding yourself of all those ideas you picked up from teachers who said they were rules but which actually turn out to be nothing of the sort. (E.g., starting sentences with 'and' or 'but' is fine. You might not like it but it's not wrong.)

 

[AstEver]

There's no firm rule for whether to add apostrophes to names ending in S -- Ed Balls's is as valid as Ed Balls'.

It seems that for singular genitive forms both genitive case (with s) and zero genitive (with an apostrophe only) are used, with the former being more common.
The OP's question is about a plural genitive word and the rule seems to be to use the zero genitive.

 

[Newchodge]

It seems that for singular genitive forms both genitive case (with s) and zero genitive (with an apostrophe only) are used, with the former being more common.
The OP's question is about a plural genitive word and the rule seems to be to use the zero genitive.

Isn't 'Smiths' a singular noun?

 

[Jeff FV]

Whilst some companies and organisations do use use an apostrophe before the S - such as 'McDonald's' - the safer option would be to structure the sentence to avoid the problem altogether as advised by the previous contributors.

I hope this helps.

Surely McDonald’s are quite right to place the apostrophe before the s as they are stores/company “belonging”to Ronald McDonald. Hence it is apostrophe s as a possessive apostrophe.

So even if the phrase were restricted, the apostrophe would still be needed if the company was McDonald’s

“I intereacted with some of the staff at McDonald’s”

 

[AstEver]

Yes, you are right, in this example it is singular. We do not know the real company's name that the OP wants to use in the sentence.
As an example, and it is a genuine question, if a company's name is THE SMITHS is it singular or plural?

 

[Newchodge]

Singular. There is no apostrophe, so the implication is that the founder's name was originally Smiths. Or the founders all shod horses and were therefore the Smiths and it is plural. Either way the genitive is The Smiths' or The Smiths's. As you would not usually say Smithses, I would go with Smiths'.

 

[AstEver]

Thank you, Newchodge.
Would you agree that there are two options:
1. for singular: both The Smiths' and The Smiths's can be used,
2. for plural: only The Smiths' can be used.

 

[Newchodge]

Thank you, Newchodge.
Would you agree that there are two options:
1. for singular: both The Smiths' and The Smiths's can be used,
2. for plural: only The Smiths' can be used.

I don't think so. Why do you think you can't use Smiths's' for the plural?

 

[AstEver]

Because for the regular plurals the 'zero genitive' is used, e.g.:
singular: boy - boy's
plural: boys - boys' (not: boys's)

 

[Newchodge]

Because for the regular plurals the 'zero genitive' is used, e.g.:
singular: boy - boy's
plural: boys - boys' (not: boys's)

I, personally, would never use s's for anything, however, if you are right then you have the problem of knowing whether the noun is plural or not.

 

[AstEver]

I would, for example here:
the boss's new secretary

The problem of knowing whether a noun is plural or singular usually occurs with proper nouns, which is the case with the OP's question. Therefore, I would use Smiths', too

 

[Newchodge]

I would, for example here:
the boss's new secretary

The problem of knowing whether a noun is plural or singular usually occurs with proper nouns, which is the case with the OP's question. Therefore, I would use Smiths', too

Does that introduce the element of nouns whose plurals are es rather than s. 2 bosses - so s's is the standard pronumciation in those cases, anyway.

 

[AstEver]

It does but I can’t see how it would invalidate the need to use ‘s with the singular noun:
the boss’s new secretary

Despite the pronunciation being the same, it makes a huge difference in writing.

NB I am not sure if I understood you correctly.

 

[Jeff FV]

1. The boss’s new secretary
2. The bosses’ new secretary

In 1, there is only one boss, who has a new secretary. In 2, there is a collective of bosses (I.e, more than one boss) who have one new secretary to look after them all.

 

[The Byre]

The ultimate guide to style and punctuation -

https://bordeure.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/the-economist-style-guide.pdf

Page 114 onwards.