Anyone using a browser that isn't chromium based and isn't Firefox or Safari?
- Thread starter estwig
- Start date
He could have installed a Trojan or spyware anywhere in the system. They only way to find out is pay for a specialist to do the investigation.
For all you know it could be a compromised password on a family member’s phone. That’s all someone needs to access the whole network.
Even reformatting your devices won’t help as they restore backups from the cloud and reintroduce the spyware again.
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- Original Poster
- #84
It's not spyware or a trojan, he does get something nasty like that on my windows devices, he's done it dozens of times. I throw away hdd drives, buy new devices, clear out accounts and cloud. I never use backups, just to be sure I don't even have any backups. He gets back in again and again. Something is very wrong here!
He knows as soon as he gets onto one of my devices, I will find him straight away, there are tell-tale signs, I start the process of clearing everything out and resetting everything. This can take over a week to do, the first time it took me months to do.
He does it to cause disruption, to keep my mind on him, the same as he lets my car tyres down, throws stones at my windows in the middle of the night and puts crisp packets though my letter box. I have a county court restraining order against him, he doesn't care!
It's not family with a comprised device, I don't let friends or family on my wifi, I can't risk them being infected.
He knows as soon as he gets onto one of my devices, I will find him straight away, there are tell-tale signs, I start the process of clearing everything out and resetting everything. This can take over a week to do, the first time it took me months to do.
He does it to cause disruption, to keep my mind on him, the same as he lets my car tyres down, throws stones at my windows in the middle of the night and puts crisp packets though my letter box. I have a county court restraining order against him, he doesn't care!
It's not family with a comprised device, I don't let friends or family on my wifi, I can't risk them being infected.
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Clearing out accounts an cloud storage won’t work. The spyware or whatever is very good at hiding itself and will just sit there and reinfect a device when you reinstall an operating system.
Buy a new phone. Don’t connect to your Wi-Fi. Don’t connect to email. Don’t sync with anything and see what happens.
Buy a new phone. Don’t connect to your Wi-Fi. Don’t connect to email. Don’t sync with anything and see what happens.
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Put this in your diary for next year some of it goes way over my head but its an interesting event even if you feel some are talking a foreign language:
www.thenec.co.uk
National Cyber Security Show
Spearheaded by the industries major players, National Cyber Security Show is back at the NEC, Birmingham. Get tickets to join the worlds leading Cyber brand
www.thenec.co.uk
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T
The Byre
What we have is five parties/counter-parties - the customer, the retailer, the merchant acquirer, the CC company, the bank. Under CBDC, these will be reduced to three - just the punter, the retailer and the central bank.
The magic word being used is 'disintermediating'. That makes it sound like progress!
I just know what is coming and what is planned. It is already up and running in parts of China and known protesters find that their wallets no longer work and their health status goes from green (C19 negative) to red (C19 positive).
It is no longer a question of if, but when and by how much?
As for your original problem - the real answer is always the same. He and you have to move on. My wife did it by getting a 6'2" BF (me) who knew how to box and who threatened her ex with severe violence. He calmed down immediately and found somebody else to annoy!
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- Original Poster
- #88
I can't live in a cave!
Email, cloud, devices, these things are essential, I have grandchildren to support and tennis to pay for!
At some point he will be back in jail, beaten half to death by someone, or dead of a drug overdose. He's been out for about two months now, it won't take long.
Email, cloud, devices, these things are essential, I have grandchildren to support and tennis to pay for!
At some point he will be back in jail, beaten half to death by someone, or dead of a drug overdose. He's been out for about two months now, it won't take long.
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The purpose of the isolated device is to test his skills. If he can’t access your new phone you can then slowly connect to different access points to discover which one is the problem.
Consider also, if he does end up back in jail the spyware will still be in the system. Which means as soon as they are released they can carry on as before.
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- Original Poster
- #90
I've had security experts involved, connect one thing at a time, test everything, take all my devices to a lab, etc. It's cheaper and quicker to throw everything away and start again.
I have a life, a business to run and dependants who rely on me.
I am still not at all convinced there is anything in my stuff, I don't see how there can be, I've become very adept at scrubbing it all out to an extreme degree. It always seems to start with android and wifi, usually from there I've made a stupid mistake liking syncing Firefox, or android has switched on a crappy sharing app, which allows him to spread.
One time he got on my windows machine via some kind of brut force DDOS attack, I have no idea how that works, it may not be possible, it might have been a false trail. He deleted a lot of CCTV footage of him vandalizing my car, I had backups with an air gap.
I have a life, a business to run and dependants who rely on me.
I am still not at all convinced there is anything in my stuff, I don't see how there can be, I've become very adept at scrubbing it all out to an extreme degree. It always seems to start with android and wifi, usually from there I've made a stupid mistake liking syncing Firefox, or android has switched on a crappy sharing app, which allows him to spread.
One time he got on my windows machine via some kind of brut force DDOS attack, I have no idea how that works, it may not be possible, it might have been a false trail. He deleted a lot of CCTV footage of him vandalizing my car, I had backups with an air gap.
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A DDOS attck, by definition, does let someone get into anything. It is a Denial Of Service attack.
A Distributed DOS attack uses large numbers of computers, typically to overload an internet connected server.
What are the signs?
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Sorry was busy here with others things but her are some pointers that make no sense or put a lot of doubt on the post.
1. She wrote A DDOS attack which completely fried a draytek router, the main page was a mess of words and rubbish, I managed to see some of the logs to confirm a DDOS attack.
You don't fry a Draytek with a DDOS attack. It was claimed that some logs were seen. Draytek uses syslog servers to records full logs.
I doubt somebody who doesn't go by your rec. to install a different browser will run a syslog server. Furthermore I'd love to see just one of those log files. Proof will never come trust me
2. Security experts: They do things and than they write reports and outcomes. I reckon there is actually no report from a professional security expert you would be willing to share ( retract serials + names )
3. Samsung Knox and Samsung S22. The S22 uses Samsung Knox security chip and software. This tech is military tech. Very advanced years ahead of Apple and somehow Samsung managed to put military TECH into a consumer product and price. Respect to them. Specially the core of Knox protecting biometric data and financial details is a tough as it can be to current security req.. You simple don't break through this bad boy and get access to credit data or biometric data.
Cellebrite + NSO Group is researching for years to bypass Samsung Knox and they got nowhere with hundreds of millions in budgets and armies of very smart cookies.
4. Most forums for hacking req. physical access to the actual device and passcode. Since the dude was in jail while the S22 was released he never could have had access to that device. Even with physical access installing spyware, trojans etc... S22 launched with Android 12, this one is sandboxing the shit out of everything and root access for any app is very tough. Even if you go to the likes of install form unknown source, ignore millions of waring , bypasses S22 build in anti virus doesn't detect it , open the app and assign access to each device you still wouldn't have root access.
5. 2FA she uses. Let's be realistic it is not impossible to bypass but very hard.
6. The dude uses pretty much any attack vector you will hear about on mums net , jamming , dns spoofing , draytek security hacking, S22 complete security bypass and so on this guy must be the world best hacker.
7. My pfSense recommendation makes sense. Anybody should sit behind a pfSense firewall businesses and consumers. That's it, any decent hacker wont even get near pfSense and says shit game over there are much easier ISP routers out there.
Rumour has it Amazon and Netflix sitting behind a custom pfSense firewall solution and by the looks of it it seems to work very well.
In regards to setting it up, there is a dude on youtube that has a channel and he made a video for every error you could possible get during the setup with a step by step guide. He has over 200 videos, repsect to this guy making pfSense setup super easy.
As said before to date no actual evidence was provided here or any report shown and with so many attack vectors at the same time from 1 person it makes no sense.
We are all very curious here what's happening so how about just 1 piece of evidence. I would be very interested to see the jammer in action. Plenty of apps out there to detect that and make a screenshot of it. Draytek DDOPS logfile would love to see on of those 1mb beautiful files
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Your phone: "Knox Whitepaper" introduced with the Samsung Galaxy S21 offers an isolated, tamper-proof, secure subsystem with its own processor and memory. Knox Vault operates completely independently from the primary processor running the Android OS, and guards against attacks that exploit shared resources, such as software side-channel attacks that can compromise other software executing on the same processor. This separation means Knox Vault protects sensitive data even if the primary processor itself is completely compromised.
Huge massive Respect to the Samsung engineers building tech like that at a consumer price and even putting it into the entry and mid range phones.
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T
The Byre
He is trying to help you. You have a top IT analyst trying to tease apart what you have written so far, so that you know what to do next. I do not see how that is to put you on trial.
My wild guess is that your stalker has just done something really simple and totally goofy like putting some basic parental watchdog software on your system.
Right now, you are living in a cave - and going just by what you have written here, it is a cave of suspicion and fear that you have created by linking everything to everything and the only security is on an ad hoc DIY basis.
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@Nico Albrecht as I use a Samsung that is reassuring!
I do not expect to find a super hacker is behind this. I am interested in what really happened and how the OP concluded it was a super hacker. Its probably uninteresting for you given you deal with people like this all the time (or used to until you got sick of it), but its novel for me.
It would be a natural option for Netflix as they use FreeBSD for their CDN (at least - probably other stuff too) anyway.
Any of his points not true?
What you have said suggests you are dealing with a psychological problem and possibly criminal behaviour, not an IT security problem.
I do not expect to find a super hacker is behind this. I am interested in what really happened and how the OP concluded it was a super hacker. Its probably uninteresting for you given you deal with people like this all the time (or used to until you got sick of it), but its novel for me.
It would be a natural option for Netflix as they use FreeBSD for their CDN (at least - probably other stuff too) anyway.
?
Any of his points not true?
What you have said suggests you are dealing with a psychological problem and possibly criminal behaviour, not an IT security problem.
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U
UkAppCoder
Obviously this sicko will be reading this thread. I'm just wondering when he'll start taking real physical action.
Let's not forget that every day thousands of people are being abducted and millions of body parts are being found strewn about all over the UK.
Victims are sliced, diced, chopped to pieces, fed to dogs and even canned and packaged to be sold in supermarkets.
Only the other day, I bought a bag of butcher's mince from Morrisons, and I swear that it had the same aroma as that of a woman who used to live on our street until she mysteriously disappeared a couple of weeks ago.
Not trying to cause alarm, but surely, this cannot be a coincidence!
Let's not forget that every day thousands of people are being abducted and millions of body parts are being found strewn about all over the UK.
Victims are sliced, diced, chopped to pieces, fed to dogs and even canned and packaged to be sold in supermarkets.
Only the other day, I bought a bag of butcher's mince from Morrisons, and I swear that it had the same aroma as that of a woman who used to live on our street until she mysteriously disappeared a couple of weeks ago.
Not trying to cause alarm, but surely, this cannot be a coincidence!
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- Original Poster
- #98
Arguing with randoms on the internet was something I used to do, especially here some 15 or more years ago. Now I'm younger and wiser....meh!
I can prove everything I have said, I just can't be bothered to argue.
I am a victim, the victim of a stalker, someone who has done 6 months in prison for that crime against me. I have a county court restraining order against him, the emotional turmoil and actual cost of all this is cannot be measured.
It's hard to admit being a victim, I'm 6ft tall, in great shape, I'm intelligent some people even think I'm fun! I'm a grandad, a higher rate taxpayer, in business all my life!
You who wanna deride this, try and bolster your narcissism with accusations and denial, good luck hun!
What makes this really awful, not for me I'm a big lad, it's very isolating which is the intention of stalking someone, to isolate them. That is what you are contributing to with your doubt and nasty comments, you are inadvertently helping a stalker.
To those you have offered support, thank you, to others, think about the words you use and there impact on those who suffer in silence.
I will not comment on this thread anymore, I have to move on.
I can prove everything I have said, I just can't be bothered to argue.
I am a victim, the victim of a stalker, someone who has done 6 months in prison for that crime against me. I have a county court restraining order against him, the emotional turmoil and actual cost of all this is cannot be measured.
It's hard to admit being a victim, I'm 6ft tall, in great shape, I'm intelligent some people even think I'm fun! I'm a grandad, a higher rate taxpayer, in business all my life!
You who wanna deride this, try and bolster your narcissism with accusations and denial, good luck hun!
What makes this really awful, not for me I'm a big lad, it's very isolating which is the intention of stalking someone, to isolate them. That is what you are contributing to with your doubt and nasty comments, you are inadvertently helping a stalker.
To those you have offered support, thank you, to others, think about the words you use and there impact on those who suffer in silence.
I will not comment on this thread anymore, I have to move on.
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You should purchase a BH04 PRO Event Logging Detector and perform Security Mode on your home and car. This will provide you with an RF layout and identify all emitters around the clock. It sounds like he may have some type of system known as store n Forward in your home, this type of device will only transmit data at select times, usually when someone is asleep or office is closed etc.. Keep it monitoring whilst you are asleep over 3-5 days and then plug the device into your PC and download the reports and you will see the emitter transmitting at some irregular hour when nothing should have been doing anything. the device is asleep most of the time, so it is much more difficult to locate.
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- Original Poster
- #101
I should add before other people offer help and advice, I'm going all out Apple, based around a MacBook Pro, an iPhone 14 Pro and a Kensington dock. I'm going to change my mobile number too, stop the abusive texts.
I gotta hang on for 3 weeks till the kit arrives, then it's no more android or windows!
I gotta hang on for 3 weeks till the kit arrives, then it's no more android or windows!
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I reckon all the people trying to be helpful are focusing on the wrong thing.
Never mind what browser is being used, or what OS, or how he's doing it. The problem is the stalker. Until he is resolved, you can fix all the flaws you want, it isn't going to stop him turning up outside and watching the house or worse.
'm sure estwig has had all these conversations with the police (who, lemme guess, can't take any action unless he physically threatens you), and other support agencies. All I cam suggest is find a lawyer who specialises in these cases. I think there are anti-stalking charities who can probably recommend one.
Can't be nice going somewhere and thinking "is he here watching me?" all the time.
Never mind what browser is being used, or what OS, or how he's doing it. The problem is the stalker. Until he is resolved, you can fix all the flaws you want, it isn't going to stop him turning up outside and watching the house or worse.
'm sure estwig has had all these conversations with the police (who, lemme guess, can't take any action unless he physically threatens you), and other support agencies. All I cam suggest is find a lawyer who specialises in these cases. I think there are anti-stalking charities who can probably recommend one.
Can't be nice going somewhere and thinking "is he here watching me?" all the time.
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This boys and girls, is why you cannot help some people.
If he actually is as good a "hacker" as you say he is that is a chocolate teapot. In fact its a more predictable target: you cannot really change the browser on an iPhone, for example: whatever its called its the same as Safari under the hood (i.e. you have to use the installed versions of webkit and whatever the JS engine is called)
True, but that was not what @estwig asked.
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- Original Poster
- #104
I have been thinking about this, the store and forward device, which doesn't need to be anything other than an old mobile. It could be beefed up with a bigger battery and a bigger aerial, it could be in a Tupperware box in the alley behind my house somewhere.
It can switch on at 3 in the morning, collect info about my network then switch off, this info can then be transmitted over wifi at a set time each week, or every 3 days, whatever. This device then wouldn't need a sim card, it wouldn't use a lot of battery so it will last, all he has to do is pop by at the same time each week to collect the info about my network.
I can't wait for my Apple devices to turn up, I gotta be safe, I gotta move on.
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Well you may get some stick from some on that but welcome to the Apple club.
Quite often when sitting at my screens at lunchtime for a little light relief i watch videos from Entertainment Insider who compare the silver screen antics to the real world, you may well like this one I was watching Friday ...... the subject hacking:
www.youtube.com
Quite often when sitting at my screens at lunchtime for a little light relief i watch videos from Entertainment Insider who compare the silver screen antics to the real world, you may well like this one I was watching Friday ...... the subject hacking:
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.
www.youtube.com
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No need for a hacker anymore if you go with apples ecosystem. Apple will leak your data free of charge or **** up basic security. In all fairness since Apple moved their cloud infrastructure away from their own aging server onto Googles cloud servers for more security it got a bit better. Since apple runs on Google servers there hasn't been any new icloud fappening leaks anymore. Must suck if your competitor is securing your own infrastructure.
For the latest apple security concerns some light evening reading via https://firewalltimes.com/apple-data-breach-timeline/
Support your local hacking community by purchasing apple products for easy access.
Apple Reportedly Storing Over 8 Million Terabytes of iCloud Data on Google Servers. Apple has dramatically increased the amount of iCloud user data it stores on Google Cloud, according to The Information. The report claims Apple now has over eight million terabytes of data stored on Google's servers.
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- Original Poster
- #107
People are still missing the point, this is the problem with you IT security guys, you are so blinkered!
I don't care if my data gets leaked.
I care about keeping my abusive, narcissist, ex bf, out of my devices and out of my life. He's not some super hacker, I do know this, he is a convicted stalker who is obsessed with me. Apple offer a much better level of security against this threat, than Android and Windows do.
I don't care if my data gets leaked.
I care about keeping my abusive, narcissist, ex bf, out of my devices and out of my life. He's not some super hacker, I do know this, he is a convicted stalker who is obsessed with me. Apple offer a much better level of security against this threat, than Android and Windows do.
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@Nico Albrecht we are wasting our time. estwig clearly did not read your last comment properly. Once someone has been got to by the Apple cult its too late to argue. Apple is better - no evidence needed.
I am going to disagree with you about this bit. AFAIK Apple have only publicly said they are using Google storage. Even if they are using more Google cloud services most security problems on the server side are not in the bits Google would run - they are in the application rather than the platform. It also does not help with client flaws, which dominate the interesting list you linked.
I am going to disagree with you about this bit. AFAIK Apple have only publicly said they are using Google storage. Even if they are using more Google cloud services most security problems on the server side are not in the bits Google would run - they are in the application rather than the platform. It also does not help with client flaws, which dominate the interesting list you linked.
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Having read all of this, I've come to a couple of conclusions.
If what the OP says is correct, then most of this advice isn't going to help. He has an overarching way in that he's perfected. If it can be found great, and some of the advice might assist with that. I'm wondering if he's just got a couple of hidden microcameras so he can watch OP enter passwords and 2FA etc. Have you checked your glasses, clothing etc, appliances on shelves? That's all it would take to get around all the other security.
Otherwise, there is only one way to fix this problem and that is to (safely) go after him. Attack is the best form of defence. Try everything legal including persisting with police; persistence can pay off and sometimes it's just a question of reaching the right person who gives a sh1t. Try a private detective to stalk him back - and gather evidence. Try to catch him on camera (surely there are ways to set up a network of cameras so that they can't all be jammed), gather evidence, keep a log. He only has to be caught on camera or witnessed breaking his injunction and he's knackered, surely?
If what the OP says is correct, then most of this advice isn't going to help. He has an overarching way in that he's perfected. If it can be found great, and some of the advice might assist with that. I'm wondering if he's just got a couple of hidden microcameras so he can watch OP enter passwords and 2FA etc. Have you checked your glasses, clothing etc, appliances on shelves? That's all it would take to get around all the other security.
Otherwise, there is only one way to fix this problem and that is to (safely) go after him. Attack is the best form of defence. Try everything legal including persisting with police; persistence can pay off and sometimes it's just a question of reaching the right person who gives a sh1t. Try a private detective to stalk him back - and gather evidence. Try to catch him on camera (surely there are ways to set up a network of cameras so that they can't all be jammed), gather evidence, keep a log. He only has to be caught on camera or witnessed breaking his injunction and he's knackered, surely?
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- Original Poster
- #112
Going after him, as much fun as that might be, I know lots of big builders who would luv nothing more than me owing them a favour, it just perpetuates the problem, same as having the Police harass him.
There aren't any cams in my house, I've checked and checked again, there aren't any devices on my wifi either. My best guess, there is either something nasty in one of my devices that a factory reset doesn't shift, or something nasty in a roaming profile, again this is despite my repeated efforts to scrub everything out. It could equally be a fresh infection every time, I don't know.
There aren't any cams in my house, I've checked and checked again, there aren't any devices on my wifi either. My best guess, there is either something nasty in one of my devices that a factory reset doesn't shift, or something nasty in a roaming profile, again this is despite my repeated efforts to scrub everything out. It could equally be a fresh infection every time, I don't know.
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The way in is often due to human flaws, not technical ones. Phishing is an obvious example, but not the only one. Someone bluffing there way onto an office to get physical access to machines. People pretending to be from IT persuading someone to hand over their password. Someone missing something simple but important when setting things up - there have been a lot of data breaches because someone made a database accessible over the internet without setting a password. People leaving a web UI publicly accessible without even a password (one security research founds controls for a dam, steelworks and a lot more, just open).
Even a lot of technical flaws are things like Insecure "internet of things" devices (that is most of them) that are there because no one can be bothered to fix them , or its not possible to fix them - how do you update the software on a wifi enabled lightbulb?
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This was an amazing thread.
I'm extremely techy and assumed my personal devices and the home/work network was pretty locked down. Turns out I was nowhere near the mark. Thank you all for the shared advice, since the OP isn't taking much of it on board at least you can know I have.
@estwig - Good luck, sounds like you'll need it since no one is expert enough to fight your hacking stalker in your eyes.
I'm extremely techy and assumed my personal devices and the home/work network was pretty locked down. Turns out I was nowhere near the mark. Thank you all for the shared advice, since the OP isn't taking much of it on board at least you can know I have.
@estwig - Good luck, sounds like you'll need it since no one is expert enough to fight your hacking stalker in your eyes.
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You’ve been speaking to the wrong security guys if they’re getting thwarted by this.
A Microsoft 365 Business Premium license, appropriately hardened tenant, and a phone onboarded to Microsoft Intune with Android Enterprise Fully Managed with Edge browser are literally all you would need to thwart this guy, seriously. And it’s about £10/m more than a personal Microsoft office subscription. Just needs admin know-how.
You can’t externally add extensions to chromium browsers if there is no personal google identity. Which you can restrict entirely with Android Enterprise policy and managed google play.
Hopefully you know someone you trust that can help you configure it on a delegated basis without you being admin. Then they can lock your user account down to your specified devices using conditional access - which would essentially make your Microsoft identity unphishable too (zero trust).
Apple is also potentially a good shout device-wise as others have suggested.
Networks/WiFi is more complex. Really any in-life commercial firewall would be expected to block external intrusion.
pfSense offers snort or suricata IPS which may detect common network/device compromises internally. But he would have to get in first.
If you’re concerned that you could be lured into malware via phish, consider revoking local admin rights to your main PC user account, and creating a separate user/password in the local administrators group for any tasks that require elevation.
Different VLANs for PCs to other devices like IoT etc is a good way to safeguard against compromise of things like cameras.
This list of device is endless and doesn’t necessarily have to be expensive but the biggest shame I think is that it’s a lot of effort for you to go to as a personal user, and that’s a real shame.
A Microsoft 365 Business Premium license, appropriately hardened tenant, and a phone onboarded to Microsoft Intune with Android Enterprise Fully Managed with Edge browser are literally all you would need to thwart this guy, seriously. And it’s about £10/m more than a personal Microsoft office subscription. Just needs admin know-how.
You can’t externally add extensions to chromium browsers if there is no personal google identity. Which you can restrict entirely with Android Enterprise policy and managed google play.
Hopefully you know someone you trust that can help you configure it on a delegated basis without you being admin. Then they can lock your user account down to your specified devices using conditional access - which would essentially make your Microsoft identity unphishable too (zero trust).
Apple is also potentially a good shout device-wise as others have suggested.
Networks/WiFi is more complex. Really any in-life commercial firewall would be expected to block external intrusion.
pfSense offers snort or suricata IPS which may detect common network/device compromises internally. But he would have to get in first.
If you’re concerned that you could be lured into malware via phish, consider revoking local admin rights to your main PC user account, and creating a separate user/password in the local administrators group for any tasks that require elevation.
Different VLANs for PCs to other devices like IoT etc is a good way to safeguard against compromise of things like cameras.
This list of device is endless and doesn’t necessarily have to be expensive but the biggest shame I think is that it’s a lot of effort for you to go to as a personal user, and that’s a real shame.
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- Original Poster
- #116
I'm all Apple now, had more than enough of the problems, or even my perception of the problems I've faced.
I have a high end MacBook Pro, a Kensington dock, an iPad Pro and an iPad Air, Apple TV everywhere and an iPhone 14 pro max arrives this week. I'm completely dumping windows and android from my life, well as much as I can, my main TV runs on android. I'm even getting rid of my google thermostat for one by Tado.
I have a high end MacBook Pro, a Kensington dock, an iPad Pro and an iPad Air, Apple TV everywhere and an iPhone 14 pro max arrives this week. I'm completely dumping windows and android from my life, well as much as I can, my main TV runs on android. I'm even getting rid of my google thermostat for one by Tado.
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Welcome to the world of Apple personally I've never looked back, hope it solves the issues you have been having best of luck.
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This thread started with the OP asking for a browser that is not Firefox or Safari.
It ended up with the OP deciding to use mostly devices that only allow you to use web browsers using Apple's version of Webkit and Javscript Core (their fork of KJS) so only able to use Safari or a variant of it.
It ended up with the OP deciding to use mostly devices that only allow you to use web browsers using Apple's version of Webkit and Javscript Core (their fork of KJS) so only able to use Safari or a variant of it.
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