Another Cold Caller Defeated

Had to look Lmao up..its just not used in vampire society-we flap our wings off (FOWO).

I have minions..they are expendable...how many do you want? I sell them by the kilo. You can have them scripted (canned) or unscripted (very dangerous). They can do bidding...

Careful...you may be buying into me and my minions and I haven't picked the phone up yet

Ah but I need minions, so thats ok, it could be quite a relevant call, can I have some test subjects to carry out a quality control exercise on a free of charge trial basis. If they pass my strict bidding criteria and pass muster then I could be in the market for some more expendable types

 

My problem from a framework type of situation is that I am a sales broker i.e. I don't do the testing myself but source the work for a network of firms throughout the UK. I don't have any real issue as a broker selling direct but it does make it quite awkward when trying to join procurement sites as they don't want the broker signing on, they want the company doing the work signing up.

That's very true, the reason being though that it means there is a middle man, i.e. yourself that's eating in to the potential breakpoints on the costings, for me to get a client a good deal I'd invariably not be wanting to go through any broker type situation and would want to go straight to the person carrying out the work, plus I need to be able to ensure the client can performance manage the contract and control any contract/quality/performance changes, which means it needs to be a direct relationship with the provider. Its not always the case, but it is usually the most cost effective.

My standard rate would still be cheaper I could exploit the situation I suppose but if I quote 65p a test in 2011 I'll quote 65p in 2012 when I call back even though the person I spoke to won't have remembered our original conversation. It's all about price so I will always go for the most competitive rate regardless although the PAT's firms I work with don't always see it this way.

65p is higher per unit than I've obtained for schools and other clients in the past 12 months+ and above the generic standard quoted unit cost by most companies that supply testing into schools and hospitals which tends to be c60p, at 65p as a customer I would be questioning what added value is being achieved from that and what the best unit cost & break points would be etc.

Re the legislation, I agree its not necessary to do it annually, it depends on the item and its use/location and the potential for risk, however schools in particular do have to do it annually, its part of a lovely long list of compliance things that they have to service on an annual basis whether they like it or not and whether its needed or not.

Its the joys of the health and safety culture we now live in I guess. Though to be fair the number of fires started by faulty equipment each year in offices and similar is extremely high. Many, many years ago in 1994 I used to have the rather dubious pleasure of being the person in the office who had to keep an eye on all the kit, be the expert on the IT system, understand how to unblock the printers and copiers when some idiot jammed them doing something stupid like melting OHP slides in them etc. I think once you start in procurement you become an unwitting expert on a huge number of products and services as you have to research and buy so many different things over the years.

It does upset me to see the schools and similar conned by the flashy copier/washroom equipment/office supplies etc sales bods though as they nearly always get sold something that's inappropriate to their needs, way over specced, over priced, comes with some ridiculous rolling maintenance agreement that costs way more than the product is even worth and in many cases they buy things for which the contract they've signed actually breaches the regulations they are governed by as schools cannot take out finance agreements and do not understand that some of what they sign actually constitutes such an agreement.

So if I'm a little jaded by the sales side of the house then I apologise as once you've spent 19 years unpicking others disasters its a little hard not to see and know that there are some atrocious ones out there!

 

[firstmarket]

That's very true, the reason being though that it means there is a middle man, i.e. yourself that's eating in to the potential breakpoints on the costings, for me to get a client a good deal I'd invariably not be wanting to go through any broker type situation and would want to go straight to the person carrying out the work, plus I need to be able to ensure the client can performance manage the contract and control any contract/quality/performance changes, which means it needs to be a direct relationship with the provider. Its not always the case, but it is usually the most cost effective.




65p is higher per unit than I've obtained for schools and other clients in the past 12 months+ and above the generic standard quoted unit cost by most companies that supply testing into schools and hospitals which tends to be c60p, at 65p as a customer I would be questioning what added value is being achieved from that and what the best unit cost & break points would be etc.

Re the legislation, I agree its not necessary to do it annually, it depends on the item and its use/location and the potential for risk, however schools in particular do have to do it annually, its part of a lovely long list of compliance things that they have to service on an annual basis whether they like it or not and whether its needed or not.

Its the joys of the health and safety culture we now live in I guess. Though to be fair the number of fires started by faulty equipment each year in offices and similar is extremely high. Many, many years ago in 1994 I used to have the rather dubious pleasure of being the person in the office who had to keep an eye on all the kit, be the expert on the IT system, understand how to unblock the printers and copiers when some idiot jammed them doing something stupid like melting OHP slides in them etc. I think once you start in procurement you become an unwitting expert on a huge number of products and services as you have to research and buy so many different things over the years.

It does upset me to see the schools and similar conned by the flashy copier/washroom equipment/office supplies etc sales bods though as they nearly always get sold something that's inappropriate to their needs, way over specced, over priced, comes with some ridiculous rolling maintenance agreement that costs way more than the product is even worth and in many cases they buy things for which the contract they've signed actually breaches the regulations they are governed by as schools cannot take out finance agreements and do not understand that some of what they sign actually constitutes such an agreement.

So if I'm a little jaded by the sales side of the house then I apologise as once you've spent 19 years unpicking others disasters its a little hard not to see and know that there are some atrocious ones out there!

This can be applied across the civil sector not just in schools. Whether they're actually conned or just naive when it comes to finance is a different matter.

It's usually good practice to quote a source when regurgitating other peoples work. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16441186

 

[Montaigne]

Crap - and reason I know this is I have to deal with the callers, and having asked them direct questions about my business, they always never have a clue.

These bozos are working from a PC screen, mostly with limited/inaccurate data, which also leads me onto why my biz details are mispelt, or insufficient enough for them to ask further questions about whether they are calling the right company. Let me clue you in on the sales calls I get:


Caller: Is that Eventsdomain?

Me: Yes/No (depends on criteria), what can we do for you/What's the nature of your call etc.

Caller: Oh yes, hello, well I work for a company called etc, and we sell ink cartridges, tell me, do you use many, how many would you say you get through per month?

Me: A single cartridge lasts me 1 to 2 months

Caller Really, are you sure?

Me Er, yup, I do use the things you know :|

Caller: Bcos in our experience etc etc

Me Actually I used to work in office supplies sector so I know a fair bit about these things, plus am an ex PC salesman.

Caller: oh, er, well our ink cartridges cost £15.75 each and are cheaper than most.

Me: No their not, as I know what I pay for them - they are cheaper these days for the past several years - just check Canon's sales page on Amazon for proof.

Caller: Well, anyway - our cartridges last longer so worth the extra, so if you took say about 3 a month from us, how would that be?

Me: Seeing as I get them cheaper than your selling them, I'm not interested

Caller: But you must use several a month surely?

Me: Nope, what makes you think that?

Caller: You run a website, so all businesses need a printer

Me: Yes, I do - but I bet you dont know what my company does?

Caller: Yes, its a Computer cafe isnt it, under Internet Services!!

Me: Nope, no way. Far from it actually, so you havent even determined my correct needs, and you obviously got my details from the YP, as it only shows my company name and category its under, so this is how I know.

-------------------

There's issues with that whole conversation. The most obvious is that you have told the sales rep that you use up a single cartridge every 1 or 2 months then they try and sell you 3 a month even though they claim you will get more printing out of their cartridge than their competitors i.e. it will last longer. All this example is showing is that you're dealing with an inattentive sales rep'.

 

[Montaigne]

in the case of the many double glazing and debt/missold ppi and other such nonsense calls that also happen during the week. It doesn't even seem to be the case that they learn and amend their database to reflect the answers of 'No I have no need for double glazing, the house has brand new glazing thanks', 'no I have no debt, never been missold ppi and have never been in an accident that means I want to become one of your many ambulance chasers'.

I completely agree with this. I hate getting these calls because they're simply dishonest companies employing muppets who simply do not listen. I'm guessing that all the decent sales rep's on here feel the same way but what we object to so vociferously is people essentially having bad experiences and then judging the ENTIRE industry on these bad examples. It wouldn't be such an issue except people then regularly show up in forums like these where lots of decent sales rep's hang out and start threads verbally abusing their professions.

Search for threads in this sales sub forum from Saxon or Massey (both banned). At one point Massey started a thread referring to sales rep's as vultures! When he got shouted down and backed down from his argument he left that thread and started a completely new one making the same criticism but in a different way.

Boho, it would be similar to me reading about the fall of Ratners Jewellers and then going onto a forum dedicated to providing advice about jewellery design and starting a thread slagging off jewellers as all being con artists and crooks, using this one example to damn the entire industry.

No doubt the jewellers would defend themselves from this apparent attack. How would they be responding if random people NEVER stopped posting such threads?

I can take any industry and find terrible stories about them. They're the bread and butter of tabloids. Horror stories of gross things discovered in food from restaurants, terrible landlords, retails outlets with horrendous customer service, rude retail staff, obnoxious people at the till, rogue tradesmen, SEO con artists, online stores that take money but never deliver orders, don't provide actual stock advertised etc etc. You name it I can find an issue with some form of business but with Sales people seem to think it's perfectly acceptable to hassle an entire industry based on the bad experiences they have had with others.

I'm sure people have had issues with dodgy online stores but to start a thread suggesting that all online stores are crooks and to then, by implication, suggest your online jewellery store is also dodgy would lead to you defending yourself rather vigorously.

Would you accept the reply that you have to accept that a lot of online stores do rip people off and therefore you should accept that people have the right to such an opinion and to include your store in that opinion also, even if they have never visited your store?

 

This can be applied across the civil sector not just in schools. Whether they're actually conned or just naive when it comes to finance is a different matter.

It's usually good practice to quote a source when regurgitating other peoples work. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16441186

Wtf!!!!! I'm quoting no one!!! I work carrying out procurement consultancy across the civil service including schools, I've not even seen or read this article and frankly dont need to as I've seen it first hand for myself. How dare you go round accusing people of quoting stuff. Some of us have brains of our own. Jeez

 

[Atilla]

Im afraid I just dont come across any of these problems, nobody puts the phone down on me. I dont call TPS numbers - suppose its all dependent on what you are selling.

You may not.
Experience suggests you're probably in the minority though.

 

Would you accept the reply that you have to accept that a lot of online stores do rip people off and therefore you should accept that people have the right to such an opinion and to include your store in that opinion also, even if they have never visited your store?

Unfortunately yes I do accept that online stores often have to do more to reassure customers because of the experiences of others and the dodgy ones out there.

Like I said before I'm not trying to attack sales people, like everything someone has to do it and I know that not everyone in the industry is bad, just wish those that give you guys a bad name would clean up their act.

 

This can be applied across the civil sector not just in schools. Whether they're actually conned or just naive when it comes to finance is a different matter.

It's usually good practice to quote a source when regurgitating other peoples work. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16441186

And its old news to any of us that have worked across the public sector. If you had read the rest of my posts - which came before this article was even written seeing as its appeared today! Then you would have seen I've worked doing this since 1994, the public sector was not any more efficient or less naive and its the same now, that's why I can easily save thousands and often in some areas millions for organisations who if they were more careful would not need me to rectify things.

 

[firstmarket]

Wtf!!!!! I'm quoting no one!!! I work carrying out procurement consultancy across the civil service including schools, I've not even seen or read this article and frankly dont need to as I've seen it first hand for myself. How dare you go round accusing people of quoting stuff. Some of us have brains of our own. Jeez

Apologies,

It's just that I had an instance back in 1956 when a jewelry designer/cost reduction expert told me some information which he had just read in the paper and passed it off as his own. Having been a jewelry designer/cost reduction expert myself in 1934 and knowing how the sector operates I've always been suspicious of jewelry designers making broad sweeping statements.

 

Apologies,

It's just that I had an instance back in 1956 when a jewelry designer told me some information which he had just read in the paper and passed it off as his own. Having been a jewelry designer myself in 1934 and knowing how the sector operates I've always been suspicious of jewelry designers making broad sweeping statements.

Really, well I suggest you learn to read entire threads properly and there is nothing broad and sweeping about the facts, schools do not contract or buy properly, the number who do are in the minority.

Your behaviour is unbelievably offensive.

 

[Montaigne]

65p is higher per unit than I've obtained for schools and other clients in the past 12 months+ and above the generic standard quoted unit cost by most companies that supply testing into schools and hospitals which tends to be c60p, at 65p as a customer I would be questioning what added value is being achieved from that and what the best unit cost & break points would be etc.

I find it difficult to believe that the majority of firms that sell to schools are going in at circa 60p a test as a standard rate simply because there are very few firms that can afford to do so; certainly not national contractors as there simply isn't the money in it for them.

There are firms that do go in at that rate as standard but they a few and far between. There are others that claim to go in at that rate but then you find their hidden charges. I know one firm that charges 45p an appliance but they charge £2 to replace a fuse or plug and how do you know how many fuses really need changing?

If you Google cheap PAT testing 60p you get various firms offering it on the first page.

Dakco offer PAT's at 60p a test then when you click through to their site their prices start at £1.50.

FTP Electrical advertise 60p a test then when you click through to their site they're offering 75p a test minimum.

RFS offer from 60p a test but only operate in Hampshire and that rate is probably qualified on the basis of x number of appliances.

I know a firm who goes in at 50p an appliance flat rate. I considered approaching them to see if I could provide them with work until I read their website which stated that it was a legal requirement to have PAT testing done every year; I wasn't interested in working with a firm that intentionally mislead their clients.

On the other hand if you asked me to get the best rate possible for say 50 schools in a borough for say 50,000 appliances then I can smash 65p a test as you simply conduct a dutch auction. The rate I arrived at, however, still wouldn't be considered a standard rate for those businesses.

With large procurement organisations I find that companies have to jump through so many hoops that the main selling point of them that they essentially combine selling power to drive more competitive prices tends to have the opposite effect in that they shut out all the smaller more competitive firms and only use the large national firms that have the time to jump through the hoops.

Yes, I understand why people may object to brokers as being a middleman but clearly the same argument can be made about indepenedent procurement services?

I have no problem with people not wanting to use brokers but I find it bizarre that even when it has been clearly demonstrated that a saving can be made they will still refuse to use a broker.

I spoke to one company that was paying 85p a test and was unhappy with his present firm. I quoted him 65p a test. He was very interested and wanted a quote so I explained first about being a broker and he quickly backtracked. I explained that I have a very good relationship with the firms I work with so if it was an issue with dealing with a broker could I have the PAT testing company who quoted 65p give him a call direct and I would have nothing to do with it? He turned that down too and said actually he was fine and wasn't interested in PAT testing after all.

The following year I asked the PAT firm to call him direct and quote the same rate. He accepted the quote, had the firm in to do the work, gave them a glowing reference, then recommended them to another firm (and slagging off the previous firm to them as being rubbish).

 

[Montaigne]

Like I said before I'm not trying to attack sales people, like everything someone has to do it and I know that not everyone in the industry is bad, just wish those that give you guys a bad name would clean up their act.

You and me both

 

[firstmarket]

Really, well I suggest you learn to read entire threads properly and there is nothing broad and sweeping about the facts, schools do not contract or buy properly, the number who do are in the minority.

Your behaviour is unbelievably offensive.

So we're agreed it's more down to the a schools inability to negotiate the finer points of a contract. Rather than a supplier stitching them up in lease agreements - They are, after all educated professionals who can make decisions without the sales person holding a gun to their head.

I'm sorry if you feel offended - With the strain of dealing with telesales calls and the forum abuse I'm quite clearly subjecting you to I admire your courage for continuing in business.

 

[Montaigne]

schools do not contract or buy properly, the number who do are in the minority.

I would definitely agree with that. A lot of the time it's because schools don't seem to have dedicated personnel to look after it. It's head teachers or bursars or caretakers or even receptionists.

The thing I have real difficulty with in relation to schools is that they are all being squeezed financially but even when you can demonstrate siginificant savings (and at times I'm talking about 30%-50% reductions in price) they still choose to pay the higher rates (generally because they're too busy to look at it or don't want to change in case something goes wrong and then they're the ones blamed for it).

 

[captaincloser]

Really, well I suggest you learn to read entire threads properly and there is nothing broad and sweeping about the facts, schools do not contract or buy properly, the number who do are in the minority.

Your behaviour is unbelievably offensive.

Hi Boho,
Where have you been ? Nobody reads entire threads on here I am often reminded.

You are lucky if some read the last but one post before vomiting some unintelligible bile into their keyboard. As for offensive...well one man's offensive is another man's....damn forgot where I was going with that one. But I am a quick learner and thanks to some stellar offensive people on here I am almost up to speed on the subject. I still manage to maintain a degree of silky politeness on the phone though. I am working on that for 2012 and hopefully will soon be the rudest man on UKBF sales threads.

 

I find it difficult to believe that the majority of firms that sell to schools are going in at circa 60p a test as a standard rate simply because there are very few firms that can afford to do so; certainly not national contractors as there simply isn't the money in it for them.

The government framework rate is 60p per unit, the rate on the Dept of Education framework for schools last year that I used for clients in Sheffield was also 60p. So companies on these frameworks which have been more widely recommended for public sector to use over the last 12months would be accessing that as a rate.

Many schools also seem to be going down the rate of having someone internally trained to carry out the testing as well, which means they can also market the staff member to other schools in their locality or in their cluster of school.

So based on that if I was looking for PAT testing then I would ask why it was higher than 60p on the frameworks, if you came back and quite reasonably said it was no longer an economical rate then I would accept that and go and get a few quotes from others to see where the price was currently sitting.

Most local authorities now have a buy local agenda as well to comply with, this would then give the advantage to the local man that doesn't have the national company overheads.

I'm not questioning your costs, I'm just saying thats not the cheapest I've encountered for that service.

 

[Montaigne]

I'm not questioning your costs, I'm just saying thats not the cheapest I've encountered for that service.

Yeah, that's fine. I was just disagreeing

The government framework rate is 60p per unit, the rate on the Dept of Education framework for schools last year that I used for clients in Sheffield was also 60p. So companies on these frameworks which have been more widely recommended for public sector to use over the last 12months would be accessing that as a rate.

Ah, I see, so companies that have already gone through a tender process are operating at that rate as opposed to those firms offering that rate as standard across the board to all comers?

Can you tell me more about this?This is clearly something I was unaware of. How do I find out more about this government framework? Is it resolved through a tender process? Is there a portal you have to apply through to become one of these firms? Is the process closed? Am I missing the point entirely and it is instead simple a form of guidance?

I'm guessing that if you are applying for inclusion on such a framework for all public sector PAT testing throughout the UK then your pricing is going to be a litlle bit more keen than if you're just quoting for a single school.

 

Hi Boho,
Where have you been ? Nobody reads entire threads on here I am often reminded.

You are lucky if some read the last but one post before vomiting some unintelligible bile into their keyboard. As for offensive...well one man's offensive is another man's....damn forgot where I was going with that one. But I am a quick learner and thanks to some stellar offensive people on here I am almost up to speed on the subject. I still manage to maintain a degree of silky politeness on the phone though. I am working on that for 2012 and hopefully will soon be the rudest man on UKBF sales threads.

Well, the rest of the thread was at least an enjoyable discussion on the subject and really quite interesting and demonstrated some great thoughts on both sides of the fence, but I'm not going to stand by and be accused of writing content from an article I've not read by someone who has no idea about me, or anything else and I dont see why any other member of ukbf should tolerate anything similar to that either.

I have no need to replicate anyone else's content, I've been on ukbf for a very long time, enjoying the debates and helping others and if a links worth posting I would always do it.

Anyway Captain its been fun, I'll be back for some of those minions, but I'm not to going to sit about and be falsely accused of stuff by firstmarket, thats simply not on!

 

[Montaigne]

but I'm not to going to sit about and be falsely accused of stuff by firstmarket, thats simply not on!

and there, in a nutshell, is every decent sales rep's point about threads such as these

 

Yeah, that's fine. I was just disagreeing

Ah, I see, so companies that have already gone through a tender process are operating at that rate as opposed to those firms offering that rate as standard across the board to all comers?

Yes, though they are open to all in the public sector, so schools, local authorities etc, there are ones for the NHS also, last I remember the rates for testing was similar for those too, but its the schools and LAs that I've dealt with most recently.

Can you tell me more about this?This is clearly something I was unaware of. How do I find out more about this government framework? Is it resolved through a tender process? Is there a portal you have to apply through to become one of these firms? Is the process closed? Am I missing the point entirely and it is instead simple a form of guidance?

I'm guessing that if you are applying for inclusion on such a framework for all public sector PAT testing throughout the UK then your pricing is going to be a litlle bit more keen than if you're just quoting for a single school.

Generally yes (more keen that is) but its not always true, I would normally benchmark costs just to be sure, but the idea is that there are greater benefits overall the more business that goes through the contract, many have a retrospective discount/payback based on the amount of business that went through the year before, so that would take the actual cost paid below 60p for example.

Main place to look for opportunities would be http://www.buyingsolutions.gov.uk/ but there are different things coming up all the time, NHS have procurement hubs, LAs have locally agreed, tendered contracts open for other LAs and schools, so its a bit of a case of doing some desk work really and finding out what the different Local Authorities use, either their own, a govt or other framework etc as that will be what they then recommend to schools for use. Schools can purchase from wherever they like and are not tied to buying from any of these places and often miss out on utilising on these wrongly assuming they can't or that they dont have sufficient quantity to qualify.

 

and there, in a nutshell, is every decent sales rep's point about threads such as these

Yes except I'm not accusing someone of going online finding an article and claiming it as my own.

 

So we're agreed it's more down to the a schools inability to negotiate the finer points of a contract. Rather than a supplier stitching them up in lease agreements - They are, after all educated professionals who can make decisions without the sales person holding a gun to their head.

I'm sorry if you feel offended - With the strain of dealing with telesales calls and the forum abuse I'm quite clearly subjecting you to I admire your courage for continuing in business.

No we're not agreed, there are companies who know full well that schools dont understand what they're signing, I've also had business managers from schools call me up because they're are being badgered to sign up to something and pressure is being put on for this to happen and they needed me to intervene. I have seen and recovered money from companies where what they got a schools to sign was blatantly a rip off.

And no, the people making the decisions are often not well educated, experienced professionals, in the case of primary schools they are admin staff, in the case of some bigger schools if you're lucky they have a business manager, they do not have knowledge of contracts, they dont have a contract, legal or procurement background to fully appreciate the entire lifecycle of costs they are signing up to.

I don't see why you think you have the right to attack me?! I'm have certainly not attacked you and you appear to be ignoring the debate that has been going on.

 

[Montaigne]

Yes except I'm not accusing someone of going online finding an article and claiming it as my own.

Boho, don't take my comment as condoning Firstmarket's comments; I don't agree with them.

It's the same type of issue though. Both examples involve people who are accused of something untrue and both parties react badly to such an accusation.

In this thread you suggested:

Why not see it the OPs post as a genuine challenge though? Treat it as a means to discuss approaches which actually work and not as an attack on the profession in general? There are a variety of fairly defensive responses to the post taking umbridge rather than using it as a constructive exercise to demonstrate how a good salesperson would approach the issue.

but when it happens to you, you have exactly the same reaction; you take umbrage at the fact that someone thinks it's acceptable to criticise you in such an unfair and inaccurate way and the immediate response was to be offended, which came through in your post (and I'm not saying that this was the wrong way to behave).

 

[Montaigne]

and now you're back to arguing your case against Firstmarket

 

[Atilla]

but when it happens to you, you have exactly the same reaction; you take umbrage at the fact that someone thinks it's acceptable to criticise you in such an unfair and inaccurate way and the immediate response was to be offended, which came through in your post (and I'm not saying that this was the wrong way to behave).

To be fair, the attack on Boho, was direct, not a general swipe at his industry/trade.

 

I would definitely agree with that. A lot of the time it's because schools don't seem to have dedicated personnel to look after it. It's head teachers or bursars or caretakers or even receptionists.

The thing I have real difficulty with in relation to schools is that they are all being squeezed financially but even when you can demonstrate siginificant savings (and at times I'm talking about 30%-50% reductions in price) they still choose to pay the higher rates (generally because they're too busy to look at it or don't want to change in case something goes wrong and then they're the ones blamed for it).

I hope there will start to be a change to that, there has been a lot of work underway in the last 2 years to try to get schools more aware of how to buy better, but most are just under resourced and are nervous of change, or under pressure from somewhere, a governor who likes a local contractor, a contractor who funds or donates to the school (I've seen both of these occur) but the thing that will start to force a change now is that not only the publishing of spending, but also that under performing schools will be forced to become academies and be taken over and some of the peformance measures relate to how they spend their money as well as the educational factors.

I actually think where these sort of deals are possible and a school ignores the potential for savings then there should be the option to name and shame them to the LA they come under, the LAs have no funds either and if they are an authority school then they will want to see the funds being used properly.

 

To be fair, the attack on Boho, was direct, not a general swipe at his industry/trade.

Thanks Atilla and that was my very reason for being offended.

Montaigne, taking a very quick cursory look at a couple of the frameworks it appears to be a fairly similar list of suppliers

Calbarrie Limitedv
Europa Facilities Services Limited
Honeywell Building Solutions
MITIE Technical Facilities Management Limited
Newpoint Group Limited
PHS Compliance Ltd
Rosser & Russell Maintenance t/a Vinci Construction UK Ltd

 

[Atilla]

Thanks Atilla and that was my very reason for being offended.

And i might be wrong but the dates posted by firstmarket seem a little odd.
1934?

 

And i might be wrong but the dates posted by firstmarket seem a little odd.
1934?

Think it was intended to be a sarcastic dig, suggesting that I must be quoting someone else's article because they've assumed I'm only a jewellery designer, ignoring the fact that I actually own several retail businesses, making and designing the jewellery for the jewellery one (as well as actually having quite a number of designers who make the pieces for me and a partner who also runs the businesses and manages them) as well as being a procurement consultant, all of which is very easily verifiable with quite a number of client references on LinkedIn if they really, really felt the urge.

 

So Captain, what's the going rate for minions these days anyway? And how many minions to the kilo?

 

[firstmarket]

Think it was intended to be a sarcastic dig, suggesting that I must be quoting someone else's article because they've assumed I'm only a jewellery designer, ignoring the fact that I actually own several retail businesses, making and designing the jewellery for the jewellery one (as well as actually having quite a number of designers who make the pieces for me and a partner who also runs the businesses and manages them) as well as being a procurement consultant, all of which is very easily verifiable with quite a number of client references on LinkedIn if they really, really felt the urge.

I haven't ignored the fact, you've pointed out that you're a jack all trades in the thread on a few occasions. I made it clear that I'd dealt with jewelry designers before and without exception they all have their head in the clouds without any real idea of how to run a business.

 

[Montaigne]

To be fair, the attack on Boho, was direct, not a general swipe at his industry/trade.

Attila it's the point that anti sales threads are a swipe directly at sales rep's. How can it not be personal to me to have a thread slagging off my whole industry and by definition me?

Anyway I don't want to go off on another tangent with this. I wasn't complaining that Boho had such a reaction, I was simply drawing a comparison between the two.

Yes I recognise most of those firms Boho. It must be a special rate they have for those frameworks as their standard rates are a lot higher than 60p an appliance as I keep picking up work off of them

I hope there will start to be a change to that, there has been a lot of work underway in the last 2 years to try to get schools more aware of how to buy better, but most are just under resourced and are nervous of change, or under pressure from somewhere, a governor who likes a local contractor, a contractor who funds or donates to the school (I've seen both of these occur) but the thing that will start to force a change now is that not only the publishing of spending, but also that under performing schools will be forced to become academies and be taken over and some of the peformance measures relate to how they spend their money as well as the educational factors.

Yes, I think the problem is that they're not businesses and most of the people in charge are not business people; they're teachers or support staff.

 

I haven't ignored the fact, you've pointed out that you're a jack all trades in the thread on a few occasions. I made it clear that I'd dealt with jewelry designers before and without exception they all have their head in the clouds without any real idea of how to run a business.

Well that's probably helpful for their designs

Jewellery design however is not something I use in my procurement work, so I can assure you that my clients benefit from my procurement knowledge and qualifications for that side of the house and I don't need 5 live and a very weak quote from some unnamed bod at DOE to aid that , its interesting to see they're finally trying to do something about the company in question though and also that Clydesdale have admitted allowing schools finance agreements as both have been a problem for a while.

 

[wardey]

I'm about to start a telesales campaign, tips would be really helpful as i am not a natural salesman..

Sean Warde
Pennine IT Services

 

Yes I recognise most of those firms Boho. It must be a special rate they have for those frameworks as their standard rates are a lot higher than 60p an appliance as I keep picking up work off of them

They get tendered for 3-10 year periods dependent on who is doing the tendering, frameworks themselves can only run for 4 years, so they'll probably go up when they're next due then.

The other ones worth trying to get on are Pro5 http://www.pro5.org/ this is made up of a 5 purchasing organisations, 1 for each Region, they're involved more and more in carrying out large scale tenders for products and a lot of them are aimed at being 'school friendly'.

Think the supplier in Sheffield was Pinnacle... might be wrong though. Don't have call for it at the moment as I'm dealing with homeless and social care services.

 

I'm about to start a telesales campaign, tips would be really helpful as i am not a natural salesman..

Sean Warde
Pennine IT Services

Are you selling your own services? I think as long as your passionate about what you do and what you sell then this will still shine through, just be honest, know your customers and do some research about them before you contact them.

 

[Montaigne]

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=235687

 

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=235687

Good link, I especially like the pics of Captain

 

[captaincloser]

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=235687

Thanks Montaigne. You have just reminded me from that old thread that I am vulture scum....So that sets me up nicely for the week ahead.

Vulture scum Captaincloser entering another great deal into the ledger.

(You nipped in just before me Boho)