Amazon vs Bespoke website

[Chinadavid18]

Hi

We have a certain amount to invest in a new website so as to grow our new mother and baby brand. We this will be the brand's first website. We will retail premium / high quality products. We are currently registering our trademark and will invest in backend technology that will automate many business tasks.

There are quite a few business owners that tell me that the majority of their sales are generated through Amazon even though they have their own website. However potential suppliers that we would like to develop strong relationships with wish to protect their brand and do not want their products being sold on Amazon. I get a sense that a few suppliers even look down on Amazon traders.

For those who have both their own website and trade on Amazon what experiences have you had with both sales channels? Do you think that Amazon is a sales channel that could potentially devalue a brand?

 

[Alan]

It has been a few years since I had an e commerce business. It sold sailing goods, a mixture of clothing and hardware.

It had a website that made steady sales.

Then a Amazon Salesperson phoned me and said they want more specialist shops and gave me 3 month free.

Frankly Amazon sold so much more clothing than I could image compared to my existing website.

So to answer your question - yes Amazon is good place to sell clothing.

Now as a consumer I am an Amazon Prime member and so Amazon is the first place I shop online, as a consumer I feel so much safer with 30 days no quibble ( versus 14 days normally ) products normally have comprehensive reviews due to volume of sales and the fact I can buy something now and it arrives tomorrow ( and in some cases within 2 hours with Amazon Prime Now products ) is just brilliant. And I get to watch 'Grand Tour'.

As we recently became Grandparents, I would say Amazon traders probably have done well out of us on mother / child stuff!

In terms of devaluing brand, I look for and expect top brands on Amazon (unlike ebay shops where I expect fake and dodgy imports )

 

[LPB 123]

I agree with the above.

I would search initially on Amazon first being a prime member too and only start searching the web if I couldn't find what I was looking for on Amazon. I trust their returns system a lot more than a websites, especially on a bigger purchase.

This would mean if your competitors are selling on Amazon and you're not, then I'd have made the purchase with them and you've lost a potential sale.

We actually sell a lot more on eBay than Amazon and our website put together. This is down to the nature of the type of products we sell as it is a rare area where eBay outshines Amazons (Motorcycle parts categories) for customer usability.

I wouldn't say eBay would be the best sales channel for a high end product though so probably not suitable for you. I'd definitely go for the Amazon route though. Still do the website of course, but alongside Amazon.

 

[antropy]

I look for and expect top brands on Amazon (unlike ebay shops where I expect fake and dodgy imports )

Agreed.

 

[Paul Norman]

I imagine that the brands who do not want you to be on Amazon are already on there.

Do your sums, and do what is right for your business.

 

[Banksbroo]

I sell on both - but luckily most of my sales are through my own site. However well you do on Amazon, you will always have to abide by their rules, and suffer Amazon placing adverts for competing products along side your goods. Above all the commission they charge is hefty. Not quite so bad if you aren't VAT registered, but a bigger bite out of your margin if you are VAT registered.
The listing conditions can sometimes be onerous for non-bought-in goods, so if you are designing your own goods under your own brands, it makes for more effort on your part - especially product photography, just to get your goods listed.
I use Amazon as a secondary channel, but would never use it as my primary sales channel.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Have both.

When you sell something on Amazon, add something in the box to push people to your website - discount, offer, gift etc.

 

[Freakzilla]

Have both.

When you sell something on Amazon, add something in the box to push people to your website - discount, offer, gift etc.

Really bad advice, this is against Amazon policy, and if caught can lead to suspension.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Freakzilla,

can you confirm where it states this?

I am aware of the following:

• Not in FBA
• Not in books
• No off site email marketing

Their terms state 'Do not divert transactions or buyers', however, if the collateral is in the box after the sale, clearly, you have not diverted.

Last time I looked, you could buy electrical/electronics from all major brands and most of them have leaflets offering an extended warranty and many now include leaflets promoting other products! They do to seem to have been banned!

 

[Freakzilla]

It's exactly as you put it. If you are including promotional material with an Amazon purchase, which directs a buyer to your website, that is diverting buyers. How can it not be? It's the promotional material which will divert buyers away from Amazon to the sellers own website. I have previously asked Amazon Seller Support through live chat if this was allowed and they said no.

Can you state 100% this is not against Amazon policy? If not you are jeopardising an Amazon Seller Account.

 

[Freakzilla]

Have both.

When you sell something on Amazon, add something in the box to push people to your website - discount, offer, gift etc.

How is this not diverting buyers?!

 

[LPB 123]

Freakzilla,

can you confirm where it states this?

I am aware of the following:

• Not in FBA
• Not in books
• No off site email marketing

Their terms state 'Do not divert transactions or buyers', however, if the collateral is in the box after the sale, clearly, you have not diverted.

Last time I looked, you could buy electrical/electronics from all major brands and most of them have leaflets offering an extended warranty and many now include leaflets promoting other products! They do to seem to have been banned!

Take a look at this 10.4. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=3216781

That being said, I assume the majority of sellers DEFINITELY DO include some form of marketing to their own website in parcels. After all I imagine the only way Amazon would be aware would be if a customer contacted them to say they received some promotional leaflets from a seller. Highly unlikely.

 

[Freakzilla]

That being said, I assume the majority of sellers DEFINITELY DO include some form of marketing to their own website in parcels. After all I imagine the only way Amazon would be aware would be if a customer contacted them to say they received some promotional leaflets from a seller. Highly unlikely.[/QUOTE]

I agree, just stating this is against Amazon policy, and the potential consequences of this.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

@Freakzilla

Can you state 100% this is not against Amazon policy? If not you are jeopardising an Amazon Seller Account.

Can you indicate where they say it is not?

How is this not diverting buyers?!

They have already the bought by the time you send them the purchase....?????!!!!!!

@Yellow Square Motor Parts - I have read that a couple times and cannot see where it states you cannot put something in the box.

10.4 is 'Linking off the Site' - I could be wrong, but does this refer to the vendor listing?

Now, you could argue b) is relevant, however, you are not sending direct mail. E) is also a bit ambiguous (I have read it 20 times and still can't fully work it out! If I am yo lose this discussion, it will be on this!

 

[LPB 123]

@consultant

Yes 10.4 is referring to the listing itself.

I should've been more specific and said 10.4(E) states it "in any order (including the packaging of the order and any promotional pieces, invoices and alike sent with it)"

Not 100% clear, but I guess it would fall into that bit? (That's how it reads to me anyway)

Everyone is doing it though. EBay have the same rules, and everyone does it there too!

 

[SamLH]

I've worked with several companies who sell on eBay and Amazon and all of them have said its against the ToS to advertise your own website/sales channel to a customer in anyway, still most added a leaflet in the deliveries, more on eBay but a few also did on Amazon and never got any trouble.

As for the OP though, you really should just focus on one channel until you can't grow anymore. The target audience for Amazon vs eBay vs your own website is different and so is the competition.
Promoting the products/company and growing the brand will be different for each and the multichannel stock management is a lot worse than what people make out. One of the companies I work for have revenues of over a £m and have dropped their multichannel stock management system because it was producing more problems than solving, now we just have an office guy who manages stock on a spreadsheet.

From personal experience, I have always seen better results from Amazon than I have from eBay and own websites. Even though its difficult to get customers off of Amazon to buy directly alot still have so I would argue has added value to our brand as we have alot more returning customers than we used to.

Customers aren't going to check if youre listed on Amazon before purchasing to check if your an inferior brand for doing so.

 

[Freakzilla]

It seems clear to me, and as I said I contacted Amazon and they said it's against policy. I would never advise someone to perform an action which could suspend an amazon account. Just me though. Bit worrying that you are an expert and can't see this.

Highly unlikely something will happen, but they do make test purchases.

 

[SamLH]

Actually, to me after re-reading it does seem a bit ambiguous. Yes, Amazon are going to do everything they can to stop you refering customers away from the site, but I don't think they have any control of you contacting a customer outside of Amazon. In the agreement linked above it does say 'in any Fixed Price Sale listing on the Site' and further notes are relating to this point.

Can they stop me contacting the customer after the sale to try to get more sales, I think this is more concerned with data protection than Amazons ToS.

 

[Chinadavid18]

Thank you for all the advice so far. Really helpful.

We are investing in a bespoke website, not just as a E-commerce platform, but also investing in the website's backend to improve the efficiency of fulfilling cross border E-commerce orders and associated business processes. The backend itself is actually a major project ( Bordering on being ERP). Our developer is a good Chinese developer that we have worked with before so I feel confident that they can deliver what we need.

We are taking this opportunity to enter the UK domestic market with a new range of UK / European or American manufactured products. We are avoiding China manufactured products (this is much harder to do than say). This appeals to our Chinese target market. Our research also indicates that there is a growing market in the UK that wants transparency in where the products they purchase are manufactured. There have a preference for UK,American or European manufactured products.

Our plan is to concentrate on our own bespoke platform and promote this first. Based on advice, at a later stage we can start the process of integrating Amazon as one of our sales channels. If our UK sales make it viable of course!

Multichannel stock management is a nightmare that I am especially worried about. Has anyone here managed to integrate their website backend with Amazon? or do you manage it separately.
I am a true believer of using IT to automate as much as possible. How far can you go with Amazon when using their API?

Thanks in advance for any help.
David

 

[lesliedocherty]

remember that Amazon will bring sales instantly, whereas your site will take months or years to get any traction, and with your site time you spend on PPC, someone to manage your PPC & SEO etc it all adds up

 

[Idosell Shop]

Thank you for all the advice so far. Really helpful.

We are investing in a bespoke website, not just as a E-commerce platform, but also investing in the website's backend to improve the efficiency of fulfilling cross border E-commerce orders and associated business processes. The backend itself is actually a major project ( Bordering on being ERP). Our developer is a good Chinese developer that we have worked with before so I feel confident that they can deliver what we need.

We are taking this opportunity to enter the UK domestic market with a new range of UK / European or American manufactured products. We are avoiding China manufactured products (this is much harder to do than say). This appeals to our Chinese target market. Our research also indicates that there is a growing market in the UK that wants transparency in where the products they purchase are manufactured. There have a preference for UK,American or European manufactured products.

Our plan is to concentrate on our own bespoke platform and promote this first. Based on advice, at a later stage we can start the process of integrating Amazon as one of our sales channels. If our UK sales make it viable of course!

Multichannel stock management is a nightmare that I am especially worried about. Has anyone here managed to integrate their website backend with Amazon? or do you manage it separately.
I am a true believer of using IT to automate as much as possible. How far can you go with Amazon when using their API?

Thanks in advance for any help.
David

"Multichannel stock management is a nightmare that I am especially worried about. Has anyone here managed to integrate their website backend with Amazon?"

it is simple, just have a right tool to do so- there are several Saas based platforms which manage eBay, Amazon, Allegro, multistore inventory. The more automated it will be and the more understanding user will get the less headache it will create.

 

[Iain_Henderson]

Quick tuppenceworth, from about 20,000 Amazon orders we converted about 10 having added a nice, glossy bit of advertising to them!

My own interpretation of the Amazon rules is that you shouldn't but given the conversion rate I don't think they care.

Amazon can give you great sales but be warned - they can disappear just as quick so don't rely on them too much.

 

[Claire Freshney]

I have my own E-Commerce platform.

We sell on eBay, Amazon and the Website. Having a website builds trust. I am a UX Consultant by day, I work heavily on creating Websites that increase the User Experience.

My advice would be to have all 3.

We sell on Amazon but also make a great income through the Website. The more channels you have (bare in mind you need to be able to manage them) - the better.

You can get quick and instant results on your website using PPC ads and Organic SEO - by using secondary keywords, in as little as 3 weeks.

There is also a piece of software for £15 that allows you to put all your selling channels into one place and you can reply using one single piece of software, this means no more logging in and out of different websites to manage customers. I'll have to get the name for you.

If you need any help PM me.

 

[Idosell Shop]

I have my own E-Commerce platform.

We sell on eBay, Amazon and the Website. Having a website builds trust. I am a UX Consultant by day, I work heavily on creating Websites that increase the User Experience.

My advice would be to have all 3.

We sell on Amazon but also make a great income through the Website. The more channels you have (bare in mind you need to be able to manage them) - the better.

You can get quick and instant results on your website using PPC ads and Organic SEO - by using secondary keywords, in as little as 3 weeks.

There is also a piece of software for £15 that allows you to put all your selling channels into one place and you can reply using one single piece of software, this means no more logging in and out of different websites to manage customers. I'll have to get the name for you.

If you need any help PM me.

Hi does the £15 software supports B2B, rapid offer sharing, inventory management (and sync among channels), data collectors, multi stores? Is there any transactional surcharge? What about payment and couriers integrations? Is there any RMA module available within this price.

I agree 100% with that one administration panel saves time and let to proceed orders in the same way- this build up customer satisfaction-retention.

 

[Claire Freshney]

Hello the software is for 'Customer Service' only. For product management we have used Veeqo, which costs around £3k per annum - we had them tailor it to our exact requirements.

Depends on how big your Company is, we needed this in place to streamline everything so is worth the expenditure.

 

[Idosell Shop]

It is a bit expensive when you sum up all and still it is not integrated and you need to jump from one panel to another. £3k per annum is a bit expensive- even tailored. May I know what was the special requirement which would justify such budget?

 

[Claire Freshney]

We wanted it to integrate with ALL our selling channels, which was very important. It monetises all products, shows us our ROI, stock levels, profit, bestsellers, inventory and much more.

 

[Idosell Shop]

You can get it done much cheaper- it is not rocket science. Does your system support data collectors? I look for any reason to pay that much.

 

[Chinadavid18]

It seems to be that implementing a Amazon shop should be part of our plan but only AFTER we have established our own website and only AFTER identifying a management approach that automates each channel into one backend platform. I want to reduce the duplication of work as much as possible.

Ensuring that each channel (Bespoke and Amazon) compliment each other will then be our marketing strategy. Perhaps by having product lines that are specific to each channel?

What type of costs do you see with setting up an Amazon shop? The idea of Amazon fulfilling our orders could appeal to us but we will already be using another fulfilment centre for our international orders. Is Amazon good value with regards to fulfilment?

How do you customise Amazon to reflect your brand identity etc? Can you add logos / watermarks to products photography?

Finally, how much customer information does Amazon let you extract from their platform.

Thank you for all the information. This is all really useful in helping us plan.

David

 

[Cathey]

If you choose to go for setting up your own website as the first port of call and later decide that you want to sell on Amazon also, the multichannel listing tools can help you quickly duplicate your products and listings to the other channel. This can be a massive timesaver.

If you decide to go for both straight away, there are multichannel tools that are priced for small businesses. These are designed to support small businesses with cross-channel Listings, Inventory Management, Order Processing and Shipping. I would of course suggest Expandly, but there are others.

 

[Idosell Shop]

Hi David,
as fare as I know, products are identified by manufacturer code, so every exported product should have correct EAN/ISBN code. In case you are not a manufacturer or not the first one who sell the product on Amazon, there is no way for any branding on your particular offer.

Regarding pricing- you need to have some kind of repricing tool since Amazon seller surcharges.
Importing shipment address from order there is no problem. In case you need ready to go solution please send me PM.

 

[Iain_Henderson]

What type of costs do you see with setting up an Amazon shop?

Monthly fee plus commissions (don't forget they can/will withhold your money if you breach a policy - for example, selling more than they expected you too!)

The idea of Amazon fulfilling our orders could appeal to us but we will already be using another fulfilment centre for our international orders. Is Amazon good value with regards to fulfilment?

For small parcels - yes
Letters / large letters - ok but only the small and light price really competes with the Royal Mail
Large items - don't know

How do you customise Amazon to reflect your brand identity etc?

Add your logo to your shop bio but that's it

Can you add logos / watermarks to products photography?

No

Finally, how much customer information does Amazon let you extract from their platform.

Delivery details only. If found to use for any reason other than order fulfillment you risk being kicked off