Am I paying too much? LTD yearly accounts

[zomex]

Hello everyone,

I've been using the same accounting firm for over 10 years.

My business over that time has declined but my accounting bill continues to increase so the question is am I paying too much?

The quote this year is around £1140 inc VAT.

For context:

- I have a LTD company.
- VAT exempt in the UK as lower than freshhold
- I charge VAT to all EU countries via ros.ie - I handle this myself
- My companies income is 95% USD and 5% GBP
- Each year I create and provide my accountant with monthly spreadsheets
- One being monthly income and one being monthly expenses - I convert these from USD to GBP using the correct exchange rate
- I provide a spreadsheet listing any dividends taken in the year
- I provide a summary spreadsheet which shows income, expenses, gross profit per month and year
- There is payroll for me and my wife. So 2 employees
- As an online business I have around 10 consistent costs per month. I don't need to buy materials, little to no travel expenses etc

I know this is quite broad but with the above information does it match the accounting cost?

Google/AI mentioned costs anywhere from £300 to £1500/year. It would appear I'm paying on the high end for what is a small business.

Thanks.

 

[Newchodge]

Hello everyone,

I've been using the same accounting firm for over 10 years.

My business over that time has declined but my accounting bill continues to increase so the question is am I paying too much?

The quote this year is around £1140 inc VAT.

For context:

- I have a LTD company.
- VAT exempt in the UK as lower than freshhold
- I charge VAT to all EU countries via ros.ie - I handle this myself
- My companies income is 95% USD and 5% GBP
- Each year I create and provide my accountant with monthly spreadsheets
- One being monthly income and one being monthly expenses - I convert these from USD to GBP using the correct exchange rate
- I provide a spreadsheet listing any dividends taken in the year
- I provide a summary spreadsheet which shows income, expenses, gross profit per month and year
- There is payroll for me and my wife. So 2 employees
- As an online business I have around 10 consistent costs per month. I don't need to buy materials, little to no travel expenses etc

I know this is quite broad but with the above information does it match the accounting cost?

Google/AI mentioned costs anywhere from £300 to £1500/year. It would appear I'm paying on the high end for what is a small business.

Thanks.

The cost is what your accountant charges and what you agree to pay. If you think this is too high, have a chat with your accountant and with others.

 

[Bobbo]

I don't think 950+VAT is unreasonable.

Does the firm complete tax returns for you and your wife? Are these billed separately or included in that figure?
You refer to payroll, but who does this? Is it the accountants or you? If the accountants, is it a weekly, monthly, annual etc payroll?

 

[BubbaWY]

I would say you are probably paying the going rate for what your accountant is doing for you. But, how useful are they when you are wanting additional advice, guidance, etc? Thats when I find they usually prove their value.

 

[zomex]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

The reason for this thread is to get second opinions and I'm glad to read that everyone believes it is a fair rate.

My accountant does payroll for me and my wife. Monthly.

This fee covers that + my company return.

This fee doesn't include advice or extra services. If I ask for advice/other services I am charged extra for that time. Last year for example I had about 5 hours of extra. This year 0 hours so this doesn't include any extra time.

 

[Lisa Thomas]

Ask for a quote on here but be warned you will get some sarcastic answers in the replies...: https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers#block-system-main

Happy to recommend an alternative Accountant to quote if you like. Feel free to dm me if you don't find one on here.

 

[WaveJumper]

Would it not be better to use some form of accounting software, rather than firing off spread sheets to your accountants, might actually cut the workload down for them

 

[DontAsk]

Would it not be better to use some form of accounting software, rather than firing off spread sheets to your accountants, might actually cut the workload down for them

This.

Use software that the accountant can also use so they can just process the data rather than having to enter it again or convert it. Cloud based makes it even easier if you are happy with that.

I'm surprised they don't charge to more to handle your own spreadsheets.

 

[zomex]

Curious how it would cut the workload down for them.

I send the spreadsheets that contain all of the figures already converted from $ to £.

If I used software they would still need to manually enter the data from the software? I could be completely wrong on that and tell me if I am.

 

[Newchodge]

Curious how it would cut the workload down for them.

I send the spreadsheets that contain all of the figures already converted from $ to £.

If I used software they would still need to manually enter the data from the software.

They would import your data files into their own copy of the software programme. Or access it on the cloud. You cannot do that with spreadsheets.

 

[DontAsk]

If I used software they would still need to manually enter the data from the software? I could be completely wrong on that and tell me if I am.

Re-read what I wrote.

 

[zomex]

They would import your data files into their own copy of the software programme. Or access it on the cloud. You cannot do that with spreadsheets.

Ok got it.

How much time do you think is being spent manually importing the data? I can't imagine it's more than an hour. Unless my accountant is charging £500/hour I think this is focusing on something with minimal impact on the price.

My accountant is also very old school. I don't know if or what software they are using but they are from the spreadsheet era of accounting. It's worked for us for the last 10 years.

 

[zomex]

Miss type

 

[Ziggy2024]

Hello everyone,

I've been using the same accounting firm for over 10 years.

My business over that time has declined but my accounting bill continues to increase so the question is am I paying too much?

The quote this year is around £1140 inc VAT.

For context:

- I have a LTD company.
- VAT exempt in the UK as lower than freshhold
- I charge VAT to all EU countries via ros.ie - I handle this myself
- My companies income is 95% USD and 5% GBP
- Each year I create and provide my accountant with monthly spreadsheets
- One being monthly income and one being monthly expenses - I convert these from USD to GBP using the correct exchange rate
- I provide a spreadsheet listing any dividends taken in the year
- I provide a summary spreadsheet which shows income, expenses, gross profit per month and year
- There is payroll for me and my wife. So 2 employees
- As an online business I have around 10 consistent costs per month. I don't need to buy materials, little to no travel expenses etc

I know this is quite broad but with the above information does it match the accounting cost?

Google/AI mentioned costs anywhere from £300 to £1500/year. It would appear I'm paying on the high end for what is a small business.

Thanks.

This is a decent price. You can always get a cheaper quote, it is about the relationship with the professional that matters. If you think you are being overcharged for the service received then you should speak to your accountant first.

 

[Ziggy2024]

They would import your data files into their own copy of the software programme. Or access it on the cloud. You cannot do that with spreadsheets.

You can do both with spreadsheets. Not sure why people are trying to change a process that the accountant in question doesn't seem to have an issue with.

 

[zomex]

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah, I'm glad I created this post. No one has said it's over priced so I believe I'm paying a reasonable price.

I've tried accounting software in the past (Xero). For my business it's not worth the cost and I had issues with the USD to GBP conversions. It was a while back so I'm sure it's more reliable now but still spreadsheets are guaranteed to work everytime.

I use software for invoicing and I simply export the transactions as a spreadsheet and modify as needed. It takes me around 30 minutes to complete the income and expenses spreadsheets for each month. For the sake of 30 minutes a month it's not worth the cost or risk of issues using and relying on accounting software.

I'm sure my accountant is not spending much time inputting the figures from my spreadsheets.

 

[Elliot Green]

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah, I'm glad I created this post. No one has said it's over priced so I believe I'm paying a reasonable price.

I've tried accounting software in the past (Xero). For my business it's not worth the cost and I had issues with the USD to GBP conversions. It was a while back so I'm sure it's more reliable now but still spreadsheets are guaranteed to work everytime.

I use software for invoicing and I simply export the transactions as a spreadsheet and modify as needed. It takes me around 30 minutes to complete the income and expenses spreadsheets for each month. For the sake of 30 minutes a month it's not worth the cost or risk of issues using and relying on accounting software.

I'm sure my accountant is not spending much time inputting the figures from my spreadsheets.

Might be a case here of 'don't fix what isn't broken'.

 

[DWS]

Seems a fair price to me and as mentioned above ‘don’t fix what isn’t broken’
Maybe controversial here but I actually prefer my clients to send spreadsheets and I tend to charge more for the ones who use their own software as they are usually a mess and take up a lot more of my time.

 

[fisicx]

£1140 is just over £3/day. A tiny amount.

And once adjusted for tax will be even less.

 

[WaveJumper]

This.

Use software that the accountant can also use so they can just process the data rather than having to enter it again or convert it. Cloud based makes it even easier if you are happy with that.

I'm surprised they don't charge to more to handle your own spreadsheets.

Absolutely and normally using something the accountants have gets you a discount on the monthly subscription

 

[WaveJumper]

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah, I'm glad I created this post. No one has said it's over priced so I believe I'm paying a reasonable price.

I've tried accounting software in the past (Xero). For my business it's not worth the cost and I had issues with the USD to GBP conversions. It was a while back so I'm sure it's more reliable now but still spreadsheets are guaranteed to work everytime.

I use software for invoicing and I simply export the transactions as a spreadsheet and modify as needed. It takes me around 30 minutes to complete the income and expenses spreadsheets for each month. For the sake of 30 minutes a month it's not worth the cost or risk of issues using and relying on accounting software.

I'm sure my accountant is not spending much time inputting the figures from my spreadsheets.

Have you actually asked them ?

 

[zomex]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

@WaveJumper after what i said why would I start using software? Spreadsheets = free. Time = 30 minutes/month. There is nothing to gain for me using software but more expense and more headaches when it goes wrong. Not only would I need the software license but I'd also need the integration between my billing software and accounting software. I'm then relying on this working, if it stops working how long am I waiting for bugs to be fixed? This was my experience in the past when I tried it. Not worth the cost or aggravation.

Also another benefit of Spreadsheets which is overlooked is that by doing it this way I'm forced to pay more attention. I look at transactions, costs and I notice trends, issues, what's working what's not, where I can cut expenses etc. If I just click a button to import/send to my accountant it's not the same.

This discussion did exactly what I was hoping which was getting some second opinions on my fee. The conclusion is I'm paying a fair price for a fair service so I'm happy with that.

 

[zomex]

Seems a fair price to me and as mentioned above ‘don’t fix what isn’t broken’
Maybe controversial here but I actually prefer my clients to send spreadsheets and I tend to charge more for the ones who use their own software as they are usually a mess and take up a lot more of my time.

That's very interesting thanks for the feedback. Reassures me of my old school methods.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Hello everyone,

I've been using the same accounting firm for over 10 years.

My business over that time has declined but my accounting bill continues to increase so the question is am I paying too much?

The quote this year is around £1140 inc VAT.

For context:

- I have a LTD company.
- VAT exempt in the UK as lower than freshhold
- I charge VAT to all EU countries via ros.ie - I handle this myself
- My companies income is 95% USD and 5% GBP
- Each year I create and provide my accountant with monthly spreadsheets
- One being monthly income and one being monthly expenses - I convert these from USD to GBP using the correct exchange rate
- I provide a spreadsheet listing any dividends taken in the year
- I provide a summary spreadsheet which shows income, expenses, gross profit per month and year
- There is payroll for me and my wife. So 2 employees
- As an online business I have around 10 consistent costs per month. I don't need to buy materials, little to no travel expenses etc

I know this is quite broad but with the above information does it match the accounting cost?

Google/AI mentioned costs anywhere from £300 to £1500/year. It would appear I'm paying on the high end for what is a small business.

Thanks.

If you are using a qualified accountant, no, it doesn't seem unreasonable.

You've been with the accountants for a long time if your only issue is fees why not discuss it with them? It may well be that they can reduce the time they spend on your accounts and tax and hence fees if you did more yourself.

One thing that stands out to me as an accountant is using spreadsheets - why not use some good software for bookkeeping. It'll probably save you and your accountants a signficant amount of time.

 

[Ziggy2024]

Have you actually asked them ?

Surely this is down to the accountant? Why would a client try and change something that they consider is working fine?

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

I should have read the replies you've had already before commenting but I do still encourage you to discuss the fees with your accountants.

 

[WaveJumper]

Surely this is down to the accountant? Why would a client try and change something that they consider is working fine?

Why ? what if the accountant is sitting there thinking- ok the client likes his own spread sheets, quite happy for us be paid for transferring info into software to submit to HMRC etc etc.

Its obvious OP is happy with current system & costs, but a simple conversation with accountant might just find theres a better way and slightly cheaper. From a personal view point my time is money, everything has to be as slick as possible

 

[Ziggy2024]

Why ? what if the accountant is sitting there thinking- ok the client likes his own spread sheets, quite happy for us be paid for transferring info into software to submit to HMRC etc etc.

Its obvious OP is happy with current system & costs, but a simple conversation with accountant might just find theres a better way and slightly cheaper. From a personal view point my time is money, everything has to be as slick as possible

Because the accountant is the service provider, it is their responsibility to engage with their client and provide the best service possible.

If the accountant hasn't brought up software in 10 years then I would hazard a guess that introducing it now would not reduce the costs, it may even increase them.

 

[WaveJumper]

Because the accountant is the service provider, it is their responsibility to engage with their client and provide the best service possible.

If the accountant hasn't brought up software in 10 years then I would hazard a guess that introducing it now would not reduce the costs, it may even increase them.

And what if the service provider is not the "best" service provider out there. If you are happy to sit around and hope you are getting the right advice I say good luck to you and anyone else.

However personally I am willing to always test and challenge a service provider. Surely any business is always changing, could be growing looking for new challenges, maybe savings, streamlining their administration ...... cutting costs

I think sitting there waiting for a service provider to come to your aid suggests to me you are not in control of your own destiny

Again OP is happy with his systems, happy with the costs.

 

[Ziggy2024]

And what if the service provider is not the "best" service provider out there. If you are happy to sit around and hope you are getting the right advice I say good luck to you and anyone else.

However personally I am willing to always test and challenge a service provider. Surely any business is always changing, could be growing looking for new challenges, maybe savings, streamlining their administration ...... cutting costs

I think sitting there waiting for a service provider to come to your aid suggests to me you are not in control of your own destiny

I agree with this, but that is not what you (or I) were saying to the OP. You have changed the narrative of the original replies.

Again OP is happy with his systems, happy with the costs.

You were suggesting that the client changes the system that is working for them because it would make the accountants job easier and therefore lower their fee. This is not necessarily the case as I noted.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

VAT exempt in the UK as lower than freshhold
- I charge VAT to all EU countries via ros.ie - I handle this myself

Why would you be vat exempt in the UK for B2C supply of services post Brexit?

I assume your current Accountants check over your VAT Return submissions when completing the year end accounts to ensure VAT Compliance?

 

[GLAbusiness]

As a non-accountant it seems to me that being vat registered in Ireland would introduce a degree of complexity and contribute to the account's costs.

 

[Ziggy2024]

Why would you be vat exempt in the UK for B2C supply of services post Brexit?

I read that OP is registered for OSS (the reference to Ireland & Ros) but under the threshold so not required to register for UK VAT.

 

[zomex]

And what if the service provider is not the "best" service provider out there. If you are happy to sit around and hope you are getting the right advice I say good luck to you and anyone else.

However personally I am willing to always test and challenge a service provider. Surely any business is always changing, could be growing looking for new challenges, maybe savings, streamlining their administration ...... cutting costs

I think sitting there waiting for a service provider to come to your aid suggests to me you are not in control of your own destiny

Again OP is happy with his systems, happy with the costs.

It's a fair point to raise but I'm with @Ziggy2024 that this isn't going to lower my costs. My Accountant confirmed that my cost is based on transaction amount and I have one of their lowest invoices due to the size of my business. I did hold their "youngest client" title when I hired their firm over 10 years ago.

Using software I'm sure would save my accountant an amount of time. Likely 30 minutes to one hour manually inputing my finalised figures. As mentioned I'd then require a subscription for accounting software. Time to learn how to use it. An integration between my billing software and the accounting software which would likely be another subscription. Then i'd be relying on that integration working bug free into the future. Hoping that the company who developed it don't disappear or heavily increase the price one I'm relying on it.

Instead spreadsheets = free. Saving 2 unnecessary subscription payments. No risk of my method no longer working. 30 minutes a month. 1 hour a year for my accountant.

 

[zomex]

Why would you be vat exempt in the UK for B2C supply of services post Brexit?

I assume your current Accountants check over your VAT Return submissions when completing the year end accounts to ensure VAT Compliance?

Read about VAT MOSS (old system), now named OSS.

My accountant was involved when I registered for this service. But I file my VAT returns quarterly. I send my VAT figures to my accountant each year but I'm unsure if she does anything with them.

 

[zomex]

I read that OP is registered for OSS (the reference to Ireland & Ros) but under the threshold so not required to register for UK VAT.

Correct

 

[Daybooks]

This.

Use software that the accountant can also use so they can just process the data rather than having to enter it again or convert it. Cloud based makes it even easier if you are happy with that.

I'm surprised they don't charge to more to handle your own spreadsheets.

The OP is already using software that the accountant is using. It is (probably) called Microsoft Excel. It is not difficult to complete a set of compliant accounts from a spreadsheet.

The trick with Excel is to understand you can do anything with it.

I charge more to use online systems - for a reason!

 

[FreddyG]

One of the things you are paying for is the reputation of the accountants. There is a huge difference in the attitude of any HMRC official to accounts submitted by a reputable accountancy partnership, compared to accounts submitted by Hermione Toadwater, working from her kitchen table.

Official One: Those accounts will be totally kosher; they were signed off my Tommy Marshingup and Angus Boots.
Official Two: Oh, you mean from Boots, Boots, Boots, Boots, Marshingup & Downagan! Are they the ones who refused to sign off the accounts of the Monster Raving Loony MacPorridge Party last year?

You are paying for the audits that did not happen!

 

[Daybooks]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

@WaveJumper after what i said why would I start using software? Spreadsheets = free. Time = 30 minutes/month. There is nothing to gain for me using software but more expense and more headaches when it goes wrong. Not only would I need the software license but I'd also need the integration between my billing software and accounting software. I'm then relying on this working, if it stops working how long am I waiting for bugs to be fixed? This was my experience in the past when I tried it. Not worth the cost or aggravation.

Also another benefit of Spreadsheets which is overlooked is that by doing it this way I'm forced to pay more attention. I look at transactions, costs and I notice trends, issues, what's working what's not, where I can cut expenses etc. If I just click a button to import/send to my accountant it's not the same.

This discussion did exactly what I was hoping which was getting some second opinions on my fee. The conclusion is I'm paying a fair price for a fair service so I'm happy with that.

This analysis is spot on. The OP knows why they use a spreadsheet and the benefit they get from it in terms of cost, expediency, accuracy and management information.

Some understand this; others don’t.

 

[DontAsk]

This analysis is spot on. The OP knows why they use a spreadsheet and the benefit they get from it in terms of cost, expediency, accuracy and management information.

Some understand this; others don’t.

Perhaps if the op had included that analysis from the start it would have saved a lot of discussion.

I think most understand but they also understand that alternative might be beneficial and worth recommending. Others seem dead set against any alternative.