Am I Charging A Fair Price For This Website

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E

El Empresario

Free Member
Feb 19, 2008
44
1
Costa de la Luz, Spain
  • #1
    I wrote a website for myself which started attracting a few visitors, first one I have written, I am not a web designer by any stretch. Then I was approached by someone to write their business website because they liked mine.

    I am close to finishing the site and I am going to charge them €1400 it has taken me about 8 working days. Is this reasonable? I don't know if I can post the name of the site for people to look at.
     
    D

    DesignColours

  • #2
    You should have agreed a price beforehand, that seems a bit much especially for someone who isnt a web designer.

    You may get into a situation where they reject your offer until you give them a price they want, because you have already done the work you would lose out if they just said no i dont want it.
     
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    DesignColours

  • #4
    Ahh ok,

    Well if they are willing to pay the price as it seems fair to them, then yes.

    While some people may say its too expensive, you had previously agreed the price so there is no reason why you should now change your pricing.
     
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    C

    Cybamart

  • #12
    That's a little harsh DesignColours, there are many pages on the site and, whilst an experienced designer could undoubtedly do it quicker, this is El Empresario's first website sale and I think you are underestimating how long pages take to set up. I do not think that any person could manage all those pages in one day let alone someone who is just starting out. Remember also that the buyer may or may not have asked to see template examples prior to the site being built which would have added extra time. Whilst €1400 is perhaps a little high due to the web-builder being new and as such it taking them more time than it would if they were experienced (which is not something the buyer should necessarily have to pay for unless they knew of the situation beforehand) I assume the buyer is checking on the site as it is being built and is happy with it.
     
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    DesignColours

  • #13
    Ok, fair enough, i was going for the average, but as you said they shouldnt have to pay extra because of inexperience.

    It depends on where he got the content, if he got given the pictures and text they wanted, less than a day is easily possible.
     
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  • #14
    Personally I quite like the look of the website you have created.
    the links to services part way down the page I was not overly impressed with...
    But, all in all I think you have done a very good job.
    It is bright and well written, informative and clear... oh, and its personalised to the family run firm, well done you :)

    I would not be too disheartened by the post above as he has not even got a website ;) seems one days work to put an image accross is too much trouble.

    I would not know how long it would take to create but would hazzard a guess at more than one day as suggested, one thing I can see is that you have taken great care... and I like that !
     
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    Swift

  • #16
    It looks fine to me.

    The price you charge per day would depend on your level of experience, your estimate of how long the task will take from start to finish - and what the customer agrees. If they choose not to shop around that is their choice and they can't subsequently penalize you for that. You've very fairly given them a 'free' day so if you've taken about the amount of time you estimated they should be more than happy.

    Nice site, but do check out pricing by other designers as you'll need to remain competitive for future projects.
     
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    El Empresario

    Free Member
    Feb 19, 2008
    44
    1
    Costa de la Luz, Spain
  • #17
    Thanks for all the feedback. My clients were fully aware of my lack of experience and they did shop around, they were quoted around €1000. I originally estimated 5 days to build the site, but they have requested additional stuff which has added to the cost.

    I have written all the content myself, obviously after consulting with them. The pics are a combination of theirs and mine.
     
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    Cybamart

  • #18
    It depends on where he got the content, if he got given the pictures and text they wanted, less than a day is easily possible.
    Click to expand...

    No, I don't agree - and I build sites. We are truly not talking copy and paste here, each page has to be created on the server, built and uploaded with each page hyperlinked to each other and back again. There are a vast amount of pages on that site and there is no way that anyone could do that in a day; it is laid out comprehensively with good design, I particularly like the page with the images of the site owners and its layout.

    I agree wholeheartedly with Swift, the site owners knew of the cost and cannot now renege on that but to remain competitive when building future sites prices must be compared to other site developers so that there is a demand in conjunction with the price charged.

    Please do not be put off El Espresario,you are doing great here and as someone said before me, it is obvious that your work is done with much care and personalisation. I know how much work has been involved in putting that site together for you, from now on read up all you can on creating a range of styles for future sites etc, when I was first starting out I found sites like http://dynamicdrive.com very useful and before you know it you WILL be a web designer. The very best of luck. :)
     
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    PhilDPho

    Free Member
    Feb 26, 2008
    243
    25
    Warrington
  • #19
    Sorry I disagree. That is quite simple to knockout in a day, 2 max.

    The layout is doable in 2 hours or so. It's a simple layout, and as for the "many pages" it's generally a case of c&p your template (which you should make for any site first, to make the rest easier), and change the content.

    I personally have a lot of templates for layouts of sites I've done previously as they do come in handy.

    I went for an interview to work for a web design company as a developer NOT designer.

    However, their designers are expected to knock these kind of sites

    http://www.ems-internet.co.uk/sample/food/index.htm

    http://www.ems-internet.co.uk/sample/asset/index.htm

    out completed with content and images, in about 2 hours. They would look to be doing 4 or 5 sites per day.

    But, as it has been said, you cannot expect somebody that is new to do that kind of work that fast. However, it may still be unethical for him to charge day rates, when he is nowhere near as fast as other designers. I don't think there would be an issue if it was charged as a complete project.

    If an experienced designer charged £200 per day, then that site would be done for £200 imo.

    But, although I don't agree with the charging methods, the client is paying for it.
     
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    Cybamart

  • #20
    PhilDPho, El Espresario has written all the copy on each page too though and then had to get it checked by the client. In the case of the sample sites above, they are just templates which are copy and pasted onto and uploaded, which would, absolutely, be easy to do in a couple of hours or so depending on the number of pages involved which in the case of the site in question has a large amount of pages on it, not just the typical 'About', 'Home', 'Contact' et al.
     
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    Calibre Designs

  • #21
    Am I missing something extremely obvious here as I have not noticed anyone asking the right questions :

    1. What do I get for my money.
    2. What type of site will it be written in.
    3. Will the site include SEO / prepared SEO friendly.
    4. Will the site include taking payment (e-commerce).
    5. Will that price include a logo.
    6. How many design revisions will I receive.
    7. Does the prince include copy writing.
    8. Will it be content manageable.

    Thats in no particular order btw.
     
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    PhilDPho

    Free Member
    Feb 26, 2008
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  • #23
    I never looked at the source before, however, I have now.

    You have made it difficult for yourself using tables for the layout. So fair enough, even copy and pasting the layout, may need tweaking when you change the content of the cells.

    If you had done this in CSS using DIVs then it would have been much much simpler, and would have saved you a hell of a lot of time.

    There are quite a few issues in regards to using tables for layout, but now isn't really the time or topic to discuss them.
     
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  • #24
    This thread is becoming somewhat away from what the op wanted.

    Who gives a flying fig about seo or whatever.

    The obvious things are that the client searched around, saw the OP site, liked it, clearly trusted the guy and agreed a fee for something similar to what he had made for himself.

    He may at a later date ask for some kind of ecommerce or seo, but thats down to the client if he wishes. He may get all his trade from magazines/travel-property agents, he may just want an online presence....
     
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    PhilDPho

    Free Member
    Feb 26, 2008
    243
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    Warrington
  • #29
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  • #30
    Price comparisons are a little irrelevant.
    Firstly the client shopped around, he saw a site he liked and made enquiries. A price was agreed.
    You could take the above approach to any virtually business and offer up comparisons where things could be got cheaper.
    ie: why would someone want to pay a solicitor when you can often get a qc for less per hour ?
    I myself have never said it was a fair price, simply condemned others suggesting stupid figures/timescales. not everyone uses a wysiwyg or premades etc. This guy does not do it for a living and made from scratch, yes it could be different, but does that really matter, its what the client asked for.
     
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    tlewis

    Free Member
    Sep 27, 2007
    96
    6
    London
  • #31
    PhilDPho said:
    Looking at the exact conversion.

    it comes out at just over £1117

    I found a company producing the following sites at £995
    http://www.tusharshah.com/
    http://www.apexexecutive.com/

    those people saying it's fair. Would you personally be happy to pay over £1000 on that site?

    You can get these produced at less than £250
    http://www.dkgardendesign.com/
    http://www.jonathanfielding.co.uk/
    Click to expand...


    No doubt you could also find people doing basic sites for a lot more. There was a post not too long ago where the OP said he would no longer be doing simple bespoke sites for less than £2000.
     
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    PhilDPho

    Free Member
    Feb 26, 2008
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    Warrington
  • #32
    The price comparison was intended to show that for over £1000 that result imo is not up to scratch.

    I have made many a webite (the one I'm using now is a quick mock up, but I'll happily upload other designs and sites to prove a point) that are scripted by hand, with PHP and SQL bespoke Content Management Systems. Site's with member registration and log ins. In under 5 days. So a site like that should not take 8 days.

    I was never suggesting that it was premade, it's general practice to make one page, and then use that first page as a template for the rest.


    In my opinion £1000 is a lot of money for such a simple website.
     
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    D

    DesignColours

  • #33
    lockie said:
    Arrh yes but you did say it only takes a day to do one yet not got one up at the url your posting in your sig,need more time for one then ?
    Click to expand...

    1: I havent started yet, right now its not the top of my priority list.

    2: If i was to make a website, yes it would take more than a day because it will include things such as ajax, php, custom graphics, seo optimised etc.
     
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    PhilDPho

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    Feb 26, 2008
    243
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  • #34
    tlewis said:
    No doubt you could also find people doing basic sites for a lot more. There was a post not too long ago where the OP said he would no longer be doing simple bespoke sites for less than £2000.
    Click to expand...

    Maybe because it was a waste of time when he could land much bigger projects for more money? Charging £2000 for a simple site makes it worth while.

    I can find a photographer that offers the same service as I do for £50 for over £600.

    But then again, he is at the very top of the profession, and compared to his, my end product is not worth that value.

    You may pay £120 for a pair of designer jeans, but would you pay £120 for a pair of jeans from Asda or Tesco regardless of how much you liked them? I very much doubt it.

    Every product has a value, and the original question was "is it a fair price" in my opinion it's over priced.
     
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    TomUK

    Free Member
    Feb 24, 2008
    313
    18
  • #35
    Wow the guy who is paying 1400EUR for that got ripped off, simple as.

    It's like buying a Mars Bar for 5GBP, sure it's upto the buyer to pay the money, but it's still being ripped off.

    No offence cybamart, but your website and design company looks extremely shabby, how can a web design company have a web page like that?
     
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    JamieM

    Free Member
    Mar 22, 2006
    2,318
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  • #36
    El Empresario said:
    I wrote a website for myself which started attracting a few visitors, first one I have written, I am not a web designer by any stretch.
    Click to expand...

    Hi El Empresario,

    You have said that you are not a web designer by any stretch but I think the price you have charged is probably in the price range that a very experienced and talented designer might charge. Based on this, I don't think this is a fair price.

    However the fact that you have also written the copy makes it even more difficult to judge. Essentially you have provided web design and copy writing services so if you consider this then I would say it is still a shade high but not too overboard.
     
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    El Empresario

    Free Member
    Feb 19, 2008
    44
    1
    Costa de la Luz, Spain
  • #37
    Calibre Designs said:
    Am I missing something extremely obvious here as I have not noticed anyone asking the right questions :

    1. What do I get for my money.
    2. What type of site will it be written in.
    3. Will the site include SEO / prepared SEO friendly.
    4. Will the site include taking payment (e-commerce).
    5. Will that price include a logo.
    6. How many design revisions will I receive.
    7. Does the prince include copy writing.
    8. Will it be content manageable.

    Thats in no particular order btw.
    Click to expand...
    1. They will get a site complete with all the content they requested.
    2. Sorry, don't know what you mean.
    3. Yes the site is prepared SEO friendly. If you search 'property management ayamonte' in google it comes up in the first page.
    4. Not at the moment
    5. Yes
    6. No design revisions were discussed.
    7. Yes the price included copy writing.
    8. Yes the content is manageable. They will have a lot of properties advertised for holiday lets, so they will make frequent changes which they can manage themselves when I hand it over to them.
     
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    Cybamart

  • #39
    No offence cybamart, but your website and design company looks extremely shabby, how can a web design company have a web page like that?
    Click to expand...

    I don't understand the need to have said this on here to me but, regardless, the site is not solely for web design purposes and incorporates many things into it, as you would have seen if you had read the page. The home page is fitting for the type of site it is and we build very many different styles for a wide range of customers and small businesses.

    For informational purposes and solely for the purposes of this post, our site has gone up over 3.84million places in the last 4 weeks in Alexa's traffic ranking; although I do appreciate that Alexa is not the best way of looking at statistics for a variety of reasons (I stress this is said for this post's purpose only), we have a very large subscriber list and much traffic daily.

    The site's homepage may not be conventional and may certainly not be what others might want depending on the type of business in which they work but we have built a lot of sites and have many testimonials soon to be added to our site.

    Although the site is essentially still in its very early stages due to us having formerly sold web development through eBay, there is much planned for it. If you would like to see examples of sites we have personally built for companies then please PM me as, due to the negative nature of your post directed at us, I do not feel it appropriate to list them on here.
     
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    mconridge

    mconridge

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    Nov 22, 2006
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    Exeter, Devon
  • #40
    This is unbelievable!

    TomUK, this isn't some version of Pop Idol. Who are you to be so harsh towards the OP. Why attack someone so aggressively? What purpose does it serve?

    The OP has clearly said that they new to this and have asked for opinions, not personal attacks.

    This is a business forum for people to discuss and give opinions, not personally attack someone. If people don't agree why not offer some advice instead of just attacking the OP?
     
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