Alibaba dispute not received

[Stellaella]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone can offer some advice please.

I ordered some goods for nearly $4k from Alibaba in June 2021 and they never arrived. I paid via trade assurance and opened a dispute in April 2022 which is still open.

The seller put a fake tracking info showing completely different address in UK and he did admit to it, that's to save his stats. The goods were apparently shipped via sea - DDP terms. He claims container was stopped by customs in October 2021. He produced some copy of the document saying the container was stopped for customs inspection with lots of key information blanked out.
They are very simple goods and I have been ordering them for coupe of years from different suppliers.

I am not sure though he is telling the truth and do suspect I might have been scammed.

He previously provided me with a tracking number for Ups once the goods reach UK by sea they were supposed to be transported by UPS to my address. However when I chceked the lablel at the time it was created for only 19kg, my total shippment weight was over 170kg.

I tried raising chargeback few months ago but as I paid via debit card I have limited protection. They said it's too late to raise it.

My alibaba dispute is still open, but despite providing lots of evidences I'm getting generic responses. The seller is only offering circa $600 back and telling me I should wait for my goods to arrive.

He is not providing me with the bill of landing. Apparently his freight forwarder is refusing to provide it.

I might have seen container number on some of screenshots but couldn't find out any information from it anymore. I suppose the container has now been reused for new route.

I would really like to trace what had happened to my goods, and if there were even shipped or if they had been destroyed by customs etc.

Can anyone offer any advice please how to win alibaba trade assurance dispute / or how to get to the bottom of what happened to the shipment?

Many thanks in advance

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Did you pay by one of the protected methods? If you did, just keep chasing Alibaba - it took me a year to get a $400 refund!

If you have not used a protected method, keep chasing Alibaba, but, sadly, unless they intervene, the chances are low!.

 

[Stellaella]

Wow... 1 year is a long time to get a refund. Has anything in particular worked for you to push the refund?

I did pay via Trade Assurance but apparently it doesn't cover goods arriving out of time. I'm being told to wait for goods to arrive...
It's crazy it's been 15 months since I ordered the goods.

I can't get bill of landing form the supplier.

I am trying to escalate the dispute every now and again but not getting to far....

I noticed this supplier has another alibaba account as he tried to contact me and company information are the same yet it's a different company name.
The reviews are pretty bad and some claim their shipment didn't arrive.

I need some help how to handle it best.

 

[MOIC]

I did pay via Trade Assurance but apparently it doesn't cover goods arriving out of time.

If the delivery time was included in your contract (Pro forma you paid by Alibaba Assurance, it should be covered.

Escalate it the next level with Alibaba and try to speak with a 'person'

I would also complain to them about this supplier for possible 'fraud' if you can show that others have also not received their shipments.

The louder you shout, the quicker you'll be heard.

 

[Stellaella]

If the delivery time was included in your contract (Pro forma you paid by Alibaba Assurance, it should be covered.

Escalate it the next level with Alibaba and try to speak with a 'person'

I would also complain to them about this supplier for possible 'fraud' if you can show that others have also not received their shipments.

The louder you shout, the quicker you'll be heard.

That's a great point. Let me review the pro forma. And of course we discussed how long it will take to deliver the goods.

I have escalated via chatting to the agent and awaiting for someone from 'higher team' to email me. I will send through the screenshots of the feedbacks from both accounts which state goods were not received.

Hopefully it helps a bit.

I was thinking if the story with seizing the container was true if I could show that goods were destroyed, it could help get a refund as I paid for DDP and contract states seller is responsible for shipment and actions of the freight forwarder they hired etc.

But not sure if I can get that from anywhere without BOL, I may have container number which was on some screenshot from seller. I suspect if their story is true either they had underdeclared the value of the goods or had some tricky items in the container and they had abandoned it /goods were destroyed. Not sure if I can find that out using container number and the details when the ship arrived etc. I have some tracking info for the whole container.

 

[MOIC]

I suspect if their story is true . . . . .

I wouldn't trust what an Alibaba seller tells you, unless you've done your due diligence on the supplier and verified all their credentials, including business registration, export licence and product certificates.

What most show on Alibaba is total bunkum!

 

[Stellaella]

I wouldn't trust what an Alibaba seller tells you,

Fair point!

I have even attempted 'testing' the supplier with a small shipment prior to that and it went fine. But I definitely made a mistake of not doing enough due dilligance... And not raising chargeback long time ago when goods were delayed and seller was stalling.

I expected Trade Assurance will cover me for this type of situation. I still hope that's possible but read so many stories it's quite useless generally. I'm not giving up yet and really appreciate all the advice.

 

[CHUKTC]

Please remeber Alibaba is not like wesrern platforms such as Ebay or Amazon. It is firmly thier for the benefit of and to support it's sellers (predominantly in China) and getting them to help with a refund is extraordinarily difficult and in many cases impossible. As others have said its really important to know who you are trading with and undertake thourough due diligence before committing any of your hard earned cash. Also remember almost all sellers on Alibaba are agents not factories (despite strenuos efforts to appear otherwise) which further enhances the risk.

 

[Mosess]

"He claims container was stopped by customs in October 2021. He produced some copy of the document saying the container was stopped for customs inspection with lots of key information blanked out." , so what's the final result of your products, is it destroyed or still stuck in custom ? Maybe I can help you to ask the Alibaba, just for fun, you don't need pay me.

 

[Stellaella]

Please remeber Alibaba is not like wesrern platforms such as Ebay or Amazon. It is firmly thier for the benefit of and to support it's sellers (predominantly in China) and getting them to help with a refund is extraordinarily difficult and in many cases impossible. As others have said its really important to know who you are trading with and undertake thourough due diligence before committing any of your hard earned cash. Also remember almost all sellers on Alibaba are agents not factories (despite strenuos efforts to appear otherwise) which further enhances the risk.

Thank you for your advice, that's helpful and very true.... I had generally postivie experience using the site for few years until this happened.
Trade assurance has given me false sense of security. However I found out it is very difficult or nearly impossible to claim refund when things go wrong. Using credit card with good chargeback protection is my recommendation....

 

[Stellaella]

"He claims container was stopped by customs in October 2021. He produced some copy of the document saying the container was stopped for customs inspection with lots of key information blanked out." , so what's the final result of your products, is it destroyed or still stuck in custom ?

I am not sure if I'll ever find out. Now having found he has another account with so many bad reviews from people claiming the never received their orders, I don't believe anything he has said....

 

[Directimport]

I am not sure if I'll ever find out. Now having found he has another account with so many bad reviews from people claiming the never received their orders, I don't believe anything he has said....

Yes, as MOIC said:
"I wouldn't trust what an Alibaba seller tells you, unless you've done your due diligence on the supplier and verified all their credentials, including business registration, export licence and product certificates.
What most show on Alibaba is total bunkum!'
..............................................................................................................................................................................................................
Here is my take on Trade Assurance:
In reality, Trade Assurance is all smoke and mirrors. The rules are mind boggling. To make my examination more practical I rewrote all the Simplified Chinese, leaving English only, thereby reducing the publication to just over 56 pages. (English requires a lot less space.)

The latest version of the TA Rules, Version No.: 20210825 Effective Date: August 25, 2021 is identical to the older version 20200316 issued in March 2020, except that in the Complaint Center it now refers to a 2010 version of the Agreement still in use there.

If anyone needs help to understand the rules, let me know.

 

[Stellaella]

Did you pay by one of the protected methods? If you did, just keep chasing Alibaba - it took me a year to get a $400 refund!

If you have not used a protected method, keep chasing Alibaba, but, sadly, unless they intervene, the chances are low!.

Paul, thank you for your reply. It's been a while but I was wondering if as part of the refund process you were offered partial refunds from Alibaba trade assurance dispute team?
Mine is still open and it has been almost a year. They offered me 1000, then 1500 now 2000 partial refund.
Don't know if I should continue to push for full refund or just cut losses. So it would be good to understand if you experienced similar?

Seller admitted that the goods were confiscated by customs due to issues with someonelse's products in the container etc. I paid for DDP delivery so insisted on full refund. But they are saying seller is planning to sue freight forwarder so it may take longer to get a refund etc.

Many thanks,
Stella

 

[japancool]

Seller admitted that the goods were confiscated by customs due to issues with someonelse's products in the container etc. I paid for DDP delivery so insisted on full refund. But they are saying seller is planning to sue freight forwarder so it may take longer to get a refund etc.

That's not your problem. Seller refunds you, then gets their money back from the freight forwarder.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

If protected, keep pushing - they have to pay eventually!

If not, @japancool is spot on.

 

[Stellaella]

Thank you so much everyone for your advice @Paul Kelly ICHYB @japancool @MOIC @CHUKTC @Directimport @Mosess

It was very helpful and encouraged me to keep on pushing when I was tempted to give up on the whole thing. I finally did receive a full refund!!
But it took almost a year. Guessing there may be something in their processes not to exceed 1 year limit. Few days before it would hit 1 year they even called me to discuss, still trying to push for a partial refund. The last couple of weeks they were increasing their offers to settle the dispute. They said seller is now going through bancrupcy, their verified badge was removed from both accounts which indeed happened. As they were quite nice on the call I decided to accept $200 less which with exchange rate changes would still mean I get more than I originally paid.
They then also waived the processing fees for me which I was expecting to loose anyway. Overall it was a gruelling experience but I learnt a lot.

*Do not trust Trade Assurance, do your own due diligence on the seller.
*Pay with credit card or PayPal, if you need to use debit card do not wait too long before raising chargeback with the bank (120 days rule).
*Make sure you put all your details including trade terms in the contract. That helped a lot. In the event of dispute Alibaba needs proof seller breached the contract. That was most powerful argument.
*Provide a lot of proof to Alibaba. The more the better.
*Don't give up or crumble on the partial refund offers, it may take a year but you may be able to get your money back.

Ask other people for advice. This forum was amazing. Thank you so much again.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

@Stellaella well done.

I found that it was a game of attrition - you have to just keep chasing them.

 

[StellaBee]

Unfortunately you will probably not receive your goods.
When I was new to Alibaba I used a shipping agent that created false charges and kept half my items which was really detrimental to my business. I paid for assurance and he even accidentally exposed his own lies during the period in which you can create a complaint.
They paid no attention to any of this and what is worse is that I was unable to leave a review because I was too busy trying to appeal and get my money back.
I believe customer service have no real power and there are trained to say 'we will progress this' - they will never get back to you.
I was later told by one of the sellers that there is an app in China that allows you to check the status of the company and found out that the company had over 20 legal cases against it. Even with this knowledge Alibaba were not interested. The same shipping agent is able to continue to trade and I have not even been allowed to write a honest review.
The best thing you could possibly is use Alibaba as a broker. Find who is trust worthy (trial and error), forget paying assurance as it counts for nothing and continue to trade direct with the sellers and shipping agents. If I manage to find the name of the app I will come back and let you know.
I am so very angry about being robbed and charged for it but the best thing I could do for my sanity is call it experience and move on.
Having said that I am considering writing to the UK office CEO although if they are anything like the customer service support they offer it will not count for much. I will also keep you updated of the outcome of that. I was so angry I wanted to create another account just so I could make a small purchase and leave the review to warn other consumers!

 

[Stellaella]

Unfortunately you will probably not receive your goods.
When I was new to Alibaba I used a shipping agent that created false charges and kept half my items which was really detrimental to my business. I paid for assurance and he even accidentally exposed his own lies during the period in which you can create a complaint.
They paid no attention to any of this and what is worse is that I was unable to leave a review because I was too busy trying to appeal and get my money back.
I believe customer service have no real power and there are trained to say 'we will progress this' - they will never get back to you.
I was later told by one of the sellers that there is an app in China that allows you to check the status of the company and found out that the company had over 20 legal cases against it. Even with this knowledge Alibaba were not interested. The same shipping agent is able to continue to trade and I have not even been allowed to write a honest review.
The best thing you could possibly is use Alibaba as a broker. Find who is trust worthy (trial and error), forget paying assurance as it counts for nothing and continue to trade direct with the sellers and shipping agents. If I manage to find the name of the app I will come back and let you know.
I am so very angry about being robbed and charged for it but the best thing I could do for my sanity is call it experience and move on.
Having said that I am considering writing to the UK office CEO although if they are anything like the customer service support they offer it will not count for much. I will also keep you updated of the outcome of that. I was so angry I wanted to create another account just so I could make a small purchase and leave the review to warn other consumers!

I'm very sorry to hear that. Yes I never received my goods but I did eventually receive a refund via Trade Assurance however it took me almost 1 year dealing wiht the open dispute. One of the important things I learnt while researching how to win the dispute is to ensure you are able to prove that the seller has breached the contract. And throw in as much proof as you can. That I believe helped me most. Other key thing is not to give up, keep on escalating your case.
Pay with credit card or PayPal, especially if it's one of your first transactions with the new seller (this one wasn't) it will be much easier to get a refund via chargeback.
Please do let me know the app name.

All the best and do not give up.

 

[Aaron_tyz]

Alibaba is full of information on how to cheat, and many companies no longer post information on it