Advice re camper van purchase

[San100]

I am a sole trader running a mobile business, for over a decade now. I have always owned cars which have been accounted for as part business, part personal. Approx 80% of my mileage is business. I am wanting to buy a second hand camper van, which would replace my current car. It would be used day to day for my mobile service, although no overnight stays - as well as for personal use. I know that in general, the business percentage of the purchase cost of a second hand van would qualify for AIA. Could a camper van be eligible in this situation ? Or - even - is the fact that the van will have been converted into a camper van irrelevant ? Would it make a difference in accounting if the camper van retained it's original V5C/Log book LGV category - as opposed to being reclassified as a 'motor caravan' ? Any advice appreciated. Thanks.

 

[DWS]

First question would be why buy a camper van if it is going to be 80% business use but no overnight stays?
At the end of the day as far as HMRC are concerned for tax purposes it is classed as a car, if you used your car car for 80% business but now have bought a camper van that you will not stay overnight in for business then I would imagine HMRC would expect the business % to drop considerably.
But as long as you keep mileage logs to show business use then no one can argue with the business ratio.

 

[San100]

First question would be why buy a camper van if it is going to be 80% business use but no overnight stays?
At the end of the day as far as HMRC are concerned for tax purposes it is classed as a car, if you used your car car for 80% business but now have bought a camper van that you will not stay overnight in for business then I would imagine HMRC would expect the business % to drop considerably.
But as long as you keep mileage logs to show business use then no one can argue with the business ratio.

Thanks for your reply, DWS. In answer to your question, I am buying a camper van for a small percentage of personal use. The van will also be used daily for my business as basically I cannot afford to run two vehicles. For my understanding :
1. I'm not sure I understand why you say HMRC would expect the business % to drop considerably ? Do you mean if I put more mileage on the clock through travelling/using it as a camper for personal use ? Then Yes, I agree the business % would drop if this became the case. I always keep detailed logs of all journeys.
2. You say "a camper van that you will not stay overnight in for business then I would imagine HMRC would expect the business % to drop". I don't understand what you are meaning ? I would still be using the van at 80% (ie. 80% of the mileage, if the split remains the same) to travel to my clients every day - so how would it affect things whether I slept in the van or not for business ?
3. Why would HMRC class it as a car ? (when it has been / still is a van ?)
4. If HMRC did class it as a car, I couldn't claim AIA anyway. It would have to be WDA (even if that's possible on a second hand vehicle ? I'd have to check that out) - but then the same principles would apply I guess.
Sorry for picking your response apart, I'm just trying to understand the situation. Thank you.

 

[DWS]

Thanks for your reply, DWS. In answer to your question, I am buying a camper van for a small percentage of personal use. The van will also be used daily for my business as basically I cannot afford to run two vehicles. For my understanding :
1. I'm not sure I understand why you say HMRC would expect the business % to drop considerably ? Do you mean if I put more mileage on the clock through travelling/using it as a camper for personal use ? Then Yes, I agree the business % would drop if this became the case. I always keep detailed logs of all journeys.
2. You say "a camper van that you will not stay overnight in for business then I would imagine HMRC would expect the business % to drop". I don't understand what you are meaning ? I would still be using the van at 80% (ie. 80% of the mileage, if the split remains the same) to travel to my clients every day - so how would it affect things whether I slept in the van or not for business ?
3. Why would HMRC class it as a car ? (when it has been / still is a van ?)
4. If HMRC did class it as a car, I couldn't claim AIA anyway. It would have to be WDA (even if that's possible on a second hand vehicle ? I'd have to check that out) - but then the same principles would apply I guess.
Sorry for picking your response apart, I'm just trying to understand the situation. Thank you.

You are not picking my response apart at all, more the fact that you are actually justifying what I said.
A camper van is classed as a car for tax purposes, so if you used a car only for 20% personal use why do you feel the need to have a camper van only for 20% personal, just asking the question that HMRC would in the unlikely event they looked into it.

 

[San100]

You are not picking my response apart at all, more the fact that you are actually justifying what I said.
A camper van is classed as a car for tax purposes, so if you used a car only for 20% personal use why do you feel the need to have a camper van only for 20% personal, just asking the question that HMRC would in the unlikely event they looked into it.

Okay - So what you're saying is that HMRC class it as a car (even though DVLA register it as a van and make your jump through hoops to reclassify it as a camper van, if you even wanted to). I still don't really understand your point above - "... if you used a car only for 20% personal use why do you feel the need to have a camper van only for 20% personal...". I might use the camper van 3 times a year to go to the Lakes, rather than use my car 3 times a year to visit auntie Flo in the Lakes. Surely the % is still only based on mileage, not time sat in the camper van ? Or am I missing your point ?

 

[fisicx]

Or do the sensible thing and keep the car and rent a camper van when you want to go away. Far more cost effective (it’s what we do).

We even managed to claim some of the cost by going to a trade show in the camper.

 

[San100]

Or do the sensible thing and keep the car and rent a camper van when you want to go away. Far more cost effective (it’s what we do).

We even managed to claim some of the cost by going to a trade show in the camper.

I find that quite condescending. I want to buy a camper van and have asked for advice re the legalities in claiming part of its costs against my business - as there will be daily business mileage. If I wanted to hire a camper van, I would do.

 

[fisicx]

Apologies. Wasn't trying to be condescending. It's just that the costs of owning, maintaining, storing an insuring a camper van to be used for business are likely to be far higher than you expect. We did lots and lots of research on this and it just wasn't viable. You can save far more in tax with a can and van rental.

 

[DWS]

Okay - So what you're saying is that HMRC class it as a car (even though DVLA register it as a van and make your jump through hoops to reclassify it as a camper van, if you even wanted to). I still don't really understand your point above - "... if you used a car only for 20% personal use why do you feel the need to have a camper van only for 20% personal...". I might use the camper van 3 times a year to go to the Lakes, rather than use my car 3 times a year to visit auntie Flo in the Lakes. Surely the % is still only based on mileage, not time sat in the camper van ? Or am I missing your point?

A camper van is not a commercial vehicle so is treated as a car for tax purposes, you may not like it but that is how HMRC treat it.
Just record your business mileage and claim as per this whether that be 10% or 100%!, as long as you can show it’s for business.
It’s for you to prove its business use not for HMRC to prove it is not.

 

[San100]

A camper van is not a commercial vehicle so is treated as a car for tax purposes, you may not like it but that is how HMRC treat it.
Just record your business mileage and claim as per this whether that be 10% or 100%!, as long as you can show it’s for business.
It’s for you to prove its business use not for HMRC to prove it is not.

Thanks DWS. I am not concerned ultimately whether it is treated as a car or as a van, I just need to know where I stand. I can claim a percentage of both - as AIA or WDA respectively. I have always logged my business use in detail, so not concerned about that, nor the % either. My original question really was about the legitimacy of the vehicle being converted into a camper van and whether that would have any bearing on what I could put through my books as I will not be staying over for business purposes, just travelling daily. So, as you say - If a camper van is treated as a car for tax purposes I guess that is the answer - Irrespective of it having an oven, bed and curtains ! Thanks for your help.

 

[San100]

Apologies. Wasn't trying to be condescending. It's just that the costs of owning, maintaining, storing an insuring a camper van to be used for business are likely to be far higher than you expect. We did lots and lots of research on this and it just wasn't viable. You can save far more in tax with a can and van rental.

Okay - Thank you for your help.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Have you considered a van with a living section ?