Advice on removing a staff member

[Lcd83]

Hi

We have recently taken over a retail business and it is now a completely new company. however to enable the purchase o be completed quickly and smoothly we agreed to take on an existing part time staff member. We initially thought it could be useful as the staff member in question had worked in the shop for a long time, knows the customers and suppliers etc.

We have now come to realize the member of staff adds nothing to the business, does not get on with the more modern methods we are trying to introduce and is working days/hours that really do not suit us. We would ideally like her to leave and let us bring in a replacement that we can train and work hours to suit us and the business.

Where do we stand on this matter legally? we took over about 6 months ago and there is no contract in place

Any advie will be greatly appreciated

 

[james_firmsites]

Have you read this page? https://www.gov.uk/transfers-takeovers/transfers-of-employment-contracts

Talks about TUPE rules, as I understand it regardless of if there was a paper 'contract' their current working arrangements are maintained. As such you would have to dismiss them in the normal way, their being from a previous business would not give you cause alone to get rid of them.

 

[Mr D]

Presumably you will follow your own company policy on retraining, disciplinary etc?
If they are not working out and you cannot get them to work as you think they should then ultimately you will have to part company.
Preventing a win at an employment tribunal should be factored in.

 

[HarryTaylorHelix]

Hi Lcd83,

You're not looking to change the employment terms, or dismiss, because of the transfer itself so TUPE won't come into play here.

How long has the employee worked there?

You will likely need to begin a capability procedure (for their lack of technical capability) or propose a contract with new terms. If the employee doesn't accept the new working hours then you can look to dismiss for some other substantial reason. If the employee qualifies for the right to claim unfair dismissal you need to follow a fair but rigid procedure, and document each step thoroughly.

If I can be of any help let me know.

Regards,

Harry

 

[Newchodge]

Although you may think that you agreed to take her on "to enable the purchase to be completed quickly and smoothly" you had absolutely no choice in the matter, she transferred under TUPE and would have done so whether you agreed or not. The fact you seem to be unaware of that means that you need to read up on TUPE very carefully.

If you are introducing new methods of working you need to do exactly what you would have done if you had been running the shop for 20 years. Explain fully what the new methods are and why they are being introduced offer training and support and ensure that the member of staff is aware of what is wanted and where to go if they struggle. I assume you have a capability procedure? If, after a reasonable period of adjustment and with full support and training, they really cannot cope then youi need to start at the beginning of the capability procedure. If you don't have one, I suggest you get one.

If the change in her days/hours is a genuine need of the business and unrelated to the transfer, again you do what any one who has employed someone for a long time would do. That is because, in the eyes of the law, you have employed her for a long time. You consult with her over the days/hours you need and try to reahc an agreement that is acceptable to you both. If no agreement is feasible AND if you are certain that the change is not related to the transfer, you start consultation about redundancy as you no longer have a need for an employee working those days/hours. You will need to pay a redundancy payment based on her entire length of service.

 

[Newchodge]

If the employee doesn't accept the new working hours then you can look to dismiss for some other substantial reason.

What would that SOSR be? A change to working hours is not an SOSR.

 

[Yana Yelina]

Agree with James. Get all the necessary details on the official website.

 

[Blood Lust]

Hi

We have recently taken over a retail business and it is now a completely new company. however to enable the purchase o be completed quickly and smoothly we agreed to take on an existing part time staff member. We initially thought it could be useful as the staff member in question had worked in the shop for a long time, knows the customers and suppliers etc.

We have now come to realize the member of staff adds nothing to the business, does not get on with the more modern methods we are trying to introduce and is working days/hours that really do not suit us. We would ideally like her to leave and let us bring in a replacement that we can train and work hours to suit us and the business.

Where do we stand on this matter legally? we took over about 6 months ago and there is no contract in place

Any advie will be greatly appreciated

You can make her redundant but it will cost you some money. Or you can execute performance management on her. If she then adapts she gets to stay but if she doesnt you can discipline her out the door.

Start by introducing staff appraisals and then call her into the office. Explain where the business currently is and where you want it to go. Then quite openly and frankly explain where she is and where you need her to be. Draw up a 3-month development plan with weekly reviews to track her progress. As she has lots of experience give her the chance to adapt and be fair.

If a few weeks in you see no improvement despite the reviews then give her a written warning for not meeting her performance targets. If there is still no improvement sack her at the end of the following week. You have to be seen to be fair by giving her the chance to change just in case it goes to a tribuneral.

As for changing her work hours want is in the contract between you and her? Does it state her current work hours? Have you guaranteed them to her?

There are more underhand methods of getting rid of her. Avoid outright bullying, harassment or discrimination. It needs to be done passively aggressively so its hard to prove. Just about the most stressful thing someone can experience at work is social isolation. And you get all of her colleagues to socially isolate her by playing favourites. Your favourites are always the ones who ignore her while those who interact with her lose out. Your new minions will soon learn what you want them to do.

 

[billmccallum1957]

@Lcd83

Take note of @Newchodge advice and try to ignore most from @Blood Lust which is probably the worst piece of advice ever given here.

 

[simon field]

^^^ What Bill said ^^^

 

[STDFR33]

You can make her redundant but it will cost you some money. Or you can execute performance management on her. If she then adapts she gets to stay but if she doesnt you can discipline her out the door.

Start by introducing staff appraisals and then call her into the office. Explain where the business currently is and where you want it to go. Then quite openly and frankly explain where she is and where you need her to be. Draw up a 3-month development plan with weekly reviews to track her progress. As she has lots of experience give her the chance to adapt and be fair.

If a few weeks in you see no improvement despite the reviews then give her a written warning for not meeting her performance targets. If there is still no improvement sack her at the end of the following week. You have to be seen to be fair by giving her the chance to change just in case it goes to a tribuneral.

As for changing her work hours want is in the contract between you and her? Does it state her current work hours? Have you guaranteed them to her?

There are more underhand methods of getting rid of her. Avoid outright bullying, harassment or discrimination. It needs to be done passively aggressively so its hard to prove. Just about the most stressful thing someone can experience at work is social isolation. And you get all of her colleagues to socially isolate her by playing favourites. Your favourites are always the ones who ignore her while those who interact with her lose out. Your new minions will soon learn what you want them to do.

This advice is worse than ‘gargle bleach to get rid your sore throat’ and ‘trim your pubic hair with a samurai sword’.

 

[Markus Brundisteg]

I would inform her that you want to fire her. And give her time to find a new job. When she finds new job than you can say bye to each other. That would be human.

 

[Newchodge]

I would inform her that you want to fire her. And give her time to find a new job. When she finds new job than you can say bye to each other. That would be human.

It would also be illegal.

 

[Mr D]

It would also be illegal.

Unless prettied up as redundancy?

 

[paulears]

You know that to an outsider, finding this forum by accident - these posts really reinforce the stereotype of the terrible bosses we read in the media. Staff are people, and bosses have responsibilities.

 

[Newchodge]

Unless prettied up as redundancy?

Redundancy is legally defined. This is not redundancy. 'Prettying it up' does not change the legal position.

 

[Mr D]

Redundancy is legally defined. This is not redundancy. 'Prettying it up' does not change the legal position.

Being fired is never easy. Whether told simply you are fired, prettied up with redundancy or some other method of removing you from a job.
The end result is ultimately the same. Not working that job.

 

[Newchodge]

Being fired is never easy. Whether told simply you are fired, prettied up with redundancy or some other method of removing you from a job.
The end result is ultimately the same. Not working that job.

And employment rights?

 

[Mr D]

And employment rights?

They keep you in the job the boss wants you out of?

 

[Newchodge]

They keep you in the job the boss wants you out of?

I despair.

 

[japancool]

You can make her redundant but it will cost you some money. Or you can execute performance management on her. If she then adapts she gets to stay but if she doesnt you can discipline her out the door.

Start by introducing staff appraisals and then call her into the office. Explain where the business currently is and where you want it to go. Then quite openly and frankly explain where she is and where you need her to be. Draw up a 3-month development plan with weekly reviews to track her progress. As she has lots of experience give her the chance to adapt and be fair.

If a few weeks in you see no improvement despite the reviews then give her a written warning for not meeting her performance targets. If there is still no improvement sack her at the end of the following week. You have to be seen to be fair by giving her the chance to change just in case it goes to a tribuneral.

As for changing her work hours want is in the contract between you and her? Does it state her current work hours? Have you guaranteed them to her?

There are more underhand methods of getting rid of her. Avoid outright bullying, harassment or discrimination. It needs to be done passively aggressively so its hard to prove. Just about the most stressful thing someone can experience at work is social isolation. And you get all of her colleagues to socially isolate her by playing favourites. Your favourites are always the ones who ignore her while those who interact with her lose out. Your new minions will soon learn what you want them to do.

You haven't learnt anything in the last year that you've been here, have you?