Advice about Advice

SH247

Free Member
Mar 8, 2018
74
9
Hello all,

First time I've posted on here so forgive me for any faux pas. I'm in the very early stages of setting up my first business and will be posting on here asking for advice and giving my opinions when needed.

I live in Oxfordshire and have seen that Oxon Business Enterprises offer free face to face advice with one of their Advisors. Just wondered if anyone had any insight as to whether it would be worth me booking an appointment to see them (when I have finished the business plan) or are they likely to be no more useful than posting here on the forum?

If anyone has had any experiences with oxonbe or similar, I'd be interested to hear...

Thanks
 

The Secret Strategist

Free Member
Jan 26, 2018
21
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Just wondered if anyone had any insight as to whether it would be worth me booking an appointment to see them
Of course it would. You’re setting up a business & get free advice, why wouldn’t you?

Whether you chose to use that advice is another matter.

Never turn down the opportunity to learn something, especially if it’s for free.

Good luck
 
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Noah

Free Member
Sep 1, 2009
1,252
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Excuse me being blunt, but : questions like this are ridiculous. If you have not even got the wherewithal to decide whether to risk a few hours of your time on free advice, you are not cut out for business.

You have to assess the risk, you have to decide the value, you have to accept the consequences; expecting anonymous crabbies to do any of this for you is bonkers.

I'm inclined to think the OP is actually a parody...
 
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SH247

Free Member
Mar 8, 2018
74
9
Well... thanks for the least helpful response I have ever had. I was hoping I might actually get an informed opinion from someone who has experience with oxonbe or similar organisations. You clearly don't. Hoping to get a reply from someone who has a similar knowledge level to some of the posters on here (yourself clearly not included if you believe you can judge what someone's cut out for based on a single post on a forum). Perhaps somebody that has been in the position of an advisor for an organisation like that and could tell me whether it differs to the free advice I could get on here? Or any other alternatives? Am I right in thinking

Assessing the value, do I want to spend the 2 hour journey, expense in fuel and time when I can get just the same advice on here........I aim to be as efficient as possible.

I'm inclined to think @Noah is a narrow-minded old man that should move on from this thread...
 
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Mr D

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Feb 12, 2017
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You can probably get the same advice here over the course of weeks or months that you could in an hour in a one on one meeting.
Your best bet is probably to do both.

Someone to sit down with you and go over your ideas, your plans, your concerns is going to be more involved than someone reading a thread with usually minimal information and no clue of what you want.
Using a business forum can generate multiple responses however some of which may spark an idea or an avenue to investigate for you.
 
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promdressers

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Aug 14, 2013
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Hmmm.

DoI take free advice on a one to one basis, where I can start to network and connect with local business'.

Or do I decline that to spend a ton of time hoping for responses from faceless folk ( no disrespect intended) who have absolutely no responsibility for ant duff advice.

Difficult that. Especially if I consider that the options are not mutually exclusive.
 
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SH247

Free Member
Mar 8, 2018
74
9
Whoever said no question was a stupid question ey...

Taking into account the fact I work full time, shift work, and can be rota'd to work any of the 24 hours in a day, any of the 7 days in a week. I have to manage my time carefully.

For all I knew, I could have got a response from someone who has been there and had a negative experience. Naturally this would have shaped my opinion in whether or not it would be worth using some of my limited time.


You can probably get the same advice here over the course of weeks or months that you could in an hour in a one on one meeting.
Your best bet is probably to do both.


Thank you for your response Mr D. Really helpful! And you were one of the regular posters I've seen here that I had in mind when posting.
 
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billmccallum1957

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Feb 11, 2016
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There is something to take into account when seeking advice from "Business Advisors", why are they not running a successful business?

I used to work for an enterprise agency, one advisor was a builder who had gone bankrupt, one was an accountant who had bottles of alcohol in his desk drawer (hint) and a retired butcher who had run a corner shop for 28 years... and me, something of a specialist in grant funding (in the 80's there was a host of grants around and I knew where they all were and how to apply for them).

When young people came in (it was a youth enterprise agency) the builder and butcher stock advice was to go to college and learn a trade first, the accountant sent them away with a cashflow form and told them to work out their income and expenditure.

The only person who actually offered constructive advice was me, and I had never run a business.

One pair of young men came in with the idea of setting up their own video production company, the butcher told them to go to college, the builder told them to get a job and learn first.

I took them to one side and showed them how to apply for a Regional Development Grant of £6000 and an Enterprise Initiative Scheme grant of £3000 and off they went into business.

Fast forward 20 years and I was managing a £10 million regeneration project which was being visited by the then Employment Minister, when he got to the site he was with a TV Cameraman, who looked familiar, he was one of the young men who I helped get grants, they were still in business and moved from wedding videos to corporate and ENG for regional and national.
channels.

Moral of the story, you can listen to all the free advice, but you do get what you pay for.
 
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SH247

Free Member
Mar 8, 2018
74
9
There is something to take into account when seeking advice from "Business Advisors", why are they not running a successful business?

I used to work for an enterprise agency, one advisor was a builder who had gone bankrupt, one was an accountant who had bottles of alcohol in his desk drawer (hint) and a retired butcher who had run a corner shop for 28 years...

Thanks a lot Bill for taking the time to write that. Definitely a thought I'll be keeping in the back of my mind if/when I book an appointment to go to speak to them. Really helps to have the opinion of people who are more experienced and informed.

Using a business forum can generate multiple responses however some of which may spark an idea or an avenue to investigate for you.

My thoughts exactly.
 
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There is something to take into account when seeking advice from "Business Advisors", why are they not running a successful business?
This!!!

As Irving Berlin said, “Listen to success and never hate a song that has sold half a million copies.”

Mickie Most, the record producer (RAK Records) behind over 100 top acts in the 70s, 80s and into the 90s was once being told by some air-head A&R person from EMI that his thinking was outdated and that a live performance was no longer valid.

His answer was “Tell me, if you know so bloody much, where’s your Lear Jet? Mine’s at City Airport, but where’s yours?”

Ignore business advice from people who are not running a successful business and ignore financial advice from poor people!
 
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estwig

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Sep 29, 2006
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I've always found generic advice from a business advisor to be a waste of time, even counterproductive, filling my head with stuff that I either don't need, want or am interested in.

The difficult trick when learning in an anecdotal way, in this case about business, is identifying gaps in your knowledge and knowing where to find answers to fill those holes.

You don't know, what you don't know!

If you want to take advice from a business advisor, do some homework and have specific questions for them, and pre-warn them of those questions. Nobody likes awkward questions sprung on them.
 
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JEREMY HAWKE

Business Member
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    Mar 4, 2008
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    Hello all,

    First time I've posted on here so forgive me for any faux pas. I'm in the very early stages of setting up my first business and will be posting on here asking for advice and giving my opinions when needed.

    I live in Oxfordshire and have seen that Oxon Business Enterprises offer free face to face advice with one of their Advisors. Just wondered if anyone had any insight as to whether it would be worth me booking an appointment to see them (when I have finished the business plan) or are they likely to be no more useful than posting here on the forum?

    If anyone has had any experiences with oxonbe or similar, I'd be interested to hear...

    Thanks

    The best advice is normally on this site :):):)o_O
     
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    ethical PR

    Free Member
  • Apr 20, 2009
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    I've had some really good advice from business support organisations, when I started out including advice on what sort of loans and grants were available and access to free training.

    I would grab all the free support you can. You will soon learn to identify what is of value and what isn't.

    Some advisers add great value, some not so much. Just like on a forum :).

    If you want to start a business you will invest/find time to meet with people who can help you.

    By the way @SH247 I thought your response to @Noah rather childish and unnecessary. There is no need to throw your toys out of the pram, when you don't agree with what someone says. In business as in life you come across all sorts of people with all sorts of opinions. You do yourself no favours by hurling insults at people, during your first post on here. First impressions stick.
     
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    SH247

    Free Member
    Mar 8, 2018
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    .

    By the way @SH247 I thought your response to @Noah rather childish and unnecessary. There is no need to throw your toys out of the pram, when you don't agree with what someone says. In business as in life you come across all sorts of people with all sorts of opinions. You do yourself no favours by hurling insults at people, during your first post on here. First impressions stick.

    Blimey, you think I was throwing my toys out of the pram? Come on... I thought Noah's response was completely childish and unnecessary and didn't even remotely provide a constructive/helpful answer to my question, hence my response. I can only apologise if it offended you. That wasn't my intention at all when posting on here just didn't expect the initial response to be so, well... useless.

    I'm not hear to have slagging matches with people (unlike some of the posters I've seen).
     
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    NDT Level 3

    Free Member
    Mar 1, 2018
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    Eureka moments can come from anywhere. Someone independent going through your plans might be very helpful.

    Other than that I would suggest, plenty of research, know your market back to front, inside out. Then jump in feet first, give it 100%, be dogged, relentless and see what happens.

    Best of luck.
     
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    SH247

    Free Member
    Mar 8, 2018
    74
    9
    Eureka moments can come from anywhere. Someone independent going through your plans might be very helpful.

    Other than that I would suggest, plenty of research, know your market back to front, inside out. Then jump in feet first, give it 100%, be dogged, relentless and see what happens.

    Best of luck.

    Thank you :) I'll bear this in mind
     
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    ethical PR

    Free Member
  • Apr 20, 2009
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    Blimey, you think I was throwing my toys out of the pram? Come on... I thought Noah's response was completely childish and unnecessary and didn't even remotely provide a constructive/helpful answer to my question, hence my response. I can only apologise if it offended you. That wasn't my intention at all when posting on here just didn't expect the initial response to be so, well... useless.

    I'm not hear to have slagging matches with people (unlike some of the posters I've seen).

    I didn't say you offended me. I said your response was childish and unnecessary.

    Noah's was blunt, perhaps even harsh, but actually made a fair point.

    What a shame you ignored the advice I offered and focussed instead on your concern about an earlier post.
     
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    SH247

    Free Member
    Mar 8, 2018
    74
    9
    I didn't say you offended me. I said your response was childish and unnecessary.

    Noah's was blunt, perhaps even harsh, but actually made a fair point.

    What a shame you ignored the advice I offered and focussed instead on your concern about an earlier post.

    I absolutely have not ignored the advice you gave, and I appreciate the fact you had that useful input, I was just surprised that you saw my response as childish and unnecessary so that took primacy in my reply.

    Clearly we all have differing opinions and I'm glad I've managed to get some useful and productive answers to my question. I don't believe anything I said in my response to Noah was untrue and it certainly was not any more unnecessary as anything he said.... calling me a parody for example.
     
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    Zoltan Lange

    Free Member
    Feb 17, 2018
    106
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    Oh my lord...Such a thread on a simple question :)
    But at least you can tell, that the Forum is active :)

    My thoughts are simple:
    1 Free advice is welcomed as they are advice and not orders. It's your business, your decisions.
    2 You can get really free and really valuable advice from people who successful already, financially free and are giving back to society this way. Rare but possible.
    3 The other free advice is more like a sells pitch to buy into membership or training (Nothing wrong with them as you don't have to say yes and you will have a chance to see the values before buying into.)
    4 To have valuable advice from someone doesn't mean the other person has to be successful as long as they are telling you how not to do something (They know, they failed already with that tactic.) - put into other words a runner champion's parents who taught him to walk probably weren't champions too.
    5 And finally you can make your business a success only if can manage to put your business's interest's priority at the top and putting your own spare time, ego and other stuff aside.

    Good luck
     
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    mhall

    Free Member
    Sep 8, 2009
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    Bill is being a little harsh on Advisers. Whilst there are some idiots out there, there are also some excellent people who give their advice from a position of strength and knowledge. A good Adviser will give you information so that you can make your own mind up about the direction you wish to take. They give advice, not opinion.

    If they are giving you opinion, they should tell you it's an opinion rather than advice. There are some brilliant Enterprise people out there. Don't take your salt with you - listen respectfully to what they have to say and ask as many questions as you can. A good Adviser will love you if you have a list of questions you are unsure about, it tells them you are thinking for yourself already. Thank them politely and mull over what they have said and how you feel about it. Then ask someone else the same questions, ask the same questions here, listen to the responses given and use their knowledge and experience to inform yourself. Then, and only then, will you be in a strong position to make your own decisions.

    By the way, THIS is only my opinion, but I feel very lucky to have experienced some fantastic advice and guidance over the years from some amazing people within the Enterprise community, all of which has been "free"- some people I have only listened to a few words amongst thousands, but those few words have been gold dust. Listen to everyone, and then make your own mind up.
     
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    It largely depends on you expectations and your frame of mind

    If you go in with an open mind you will almost certainly learn something and take away some food for thought.

    If your expectation is that they will give you some definitive advice on 'how to succeed' or 'take your business to anther level' you will almost certainly be disappointed

    Don't blindly accept or disbelieve what they say, use it as the basis of more questions and thoughts.
     
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    There are some brilliant Enterprise people out there.
    I have yet to meet any!

    When I started my present company, my accountant or lawyer (I forget which) told me that it might be a good idea to talk to somebody from the local enterprise board.

    So off I popped and spoke to some youngish woman who told me in no uncertain terms that they did not want to help me, as they had just given "a goodish sum to someone setting up the same type of business" and that it "represented a significant investment".

    "Any material help we give you would be a conflict of interests." she said.

    Further questioning indicated that this significant investment was about £20,000. When I told her that our launch budget was £750,000, she opened and shut her mouth and I thought she was doing an impersonation of a gaffed salmon. Well, either that, or she was catching flies.

    Basically, they had 'invested' (i.e. given away) a couple of thousand to enhance some silly hobby - and the whole quango was just too incompetent to realise it.

    15 years later and I went to a major trade fair in Amsterdam to do some window shopping and lo-and-behold, there was our local enterprise board sharing a stand with another UK quango.

    "Why don't you come and see what we are doing!" I suggested. "You are just 12 miles away from us, so just come past! We are doing some exciting and interesting things lately and we are expanding."

    Did they?

    Did they hell!

    Their job is to play silly games and defend their desks. Or as Bill puts it -
    I'm sure there are many out there who are excellent, just not met one personally.
     
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    mhall

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    Perhaps I was just lucky then, but I am talking almost twenty years ago.
    I agree to a point, having met many "ex bank managers" and "ex Managing Directors" who thought they knew it all but actually couldn't even tell me the VAT threshold at the time. For me it was a case of- if they worked for "Business Link" , then they were exactly as you described, but our Enterprise Agency were real people- nothing flash, no money to give me or even lend me but a wealth of real experience as everything from market traders to land investment. They were amused that Business Link considered them inferior.

    The one person there who wasn't also self employed was also a gem. He admitted at the first meeting that he didn't have the guts to do it himself but became a real Mentor to me as someone who was never judgemental and just told me factual information. He was useless in terms of Retail but as a person who could factually help me with HR, tax and VAT was an absolute godsend so sometimes, not being self employed actually helps as they have no baggage and nothing to prove.

    A couple of the people I saw then are still in "Enterprise", the best Adviser I ever had is still helping people in the New Enterprise Allowance as well as having three or four of his own businesses. He tells me he does it because he believes in it and, as he has people in his businesses to run them he wants to let them do that and not interfere. He became one of my friends and confidants and instilled in me business ethics I rarely see in others nowadays. I can confirm he certainly doesn't need the money they pay him but, as he says, why would he turn down money to do what he loves and believes in?

    Funnily enough my best friends Grand Daughter is starting a business through the NEA and came back from a meeting just before Christmas telling me about this "funny old man who ripped her business apart (selling cakes) and then made her feel ten feet tall about the other businesses she could start using the skills and talents she had" - yep, it was him and the memories flooded back. Writing this I realise I have never truly thanked him and I am getting quite emotional.
     
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    Mr D

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    Business link had a few good people.
    Went to several of their seminars. The good staff were usually pretty good, the bad staff were ... probably palmed off on the organisation to keep them in employment.

    Did have bank staff a couple of times have a meeting where they could not grasp what we were doing. Selling on ebay apparently being a new concept in 2015.
     
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    C

    Caledonian TV

    One pair of young men came in with the idea of setting up their own video production company, the butcher told them to go to college, the builder told them to get a job and learn first.

    I took them to one side and showed them how to apply for a Regional Development Grant of £6000 and an Enterprise Initiative Scheme grant of £3000 and off they went into business.

    ...By 1986 I actually had served a 4 1/2 year apprenticeship as an ENG/EFP Cameraman, plus the extra 18 months to gain 'Journeyman' status, and another year on top of that. I was told much of the wondrous grants that were supposedly available to me, especially since I hailed originally from a 'deprived area (Glasgow's infamous Red Road) - to which I'd returned 'after London' - to set up my own business... And I was under 25.

    With that experience and a not inconsiderable savings, it was my plan to set up on my own as a corporate video producer.

    In the waiting room at the interview (in the middle of a freezing March) for the Prince's Trust there was this wee Windsoresque blonde with her skirt half way up her @*** and her not inconsiderable 'Erthas' out on display; the daughter of one of the cleaners at the University I'd started out at. She wanted £2500 for a car so she could set up as a 'mobile hairdressing' business. - This despite the fact she had absolutely no professional background or training and her experience of hairdressing was 'cutting her pals' hair' (this I know from her mother). She got the money! - And spent (what would then be about half-a-year's wages for a clerk) on a fortnight in Spain and an old banger. The hairdressing business never happened! It was never going to!

    I was looking for £1500 to fund a vision mixer for the edit suite... I got hee-haw! - Despite having a carefully developed business plan, work lined up, being fully trained and qualified, experienced, and having £19K to invest. Apparently my plans were 'too vague'!

    Another plot that was run by the then Scottish Development Agency was called the 'Better Business Scheme' - The SDA would put up a Grand to fund the planning phase of any project with a registered provider. And many a printer would print you up screeds of stuff for 99p! - Provided you 'paid' £1000 to have the layout designed and the plates made...

    The trouble was becoming a 'registered provider'. I'd been going for about eighteen months then - and this 'scheme' was killing my business because the 'registered providers' were making people videos for £1001 and folk were effectively getting their programmes made for nothing. - When I phoned the SDA up and pointed this out to them, the woman on the other end laughed down the phone at me!

    More recently my local council (West Lothian Council) used to run a 'business advice centre' - One late November I visited to ask whether they'd put some of my leaflets and cards in their racks. About 1000 of each were taken. As I walked out to my car a chap who had came out behind me tapped me on the shoulder - apparently, the moment my back was turned - the woman to whom I had given the material walked to a large bin at the back of their work area and simply dumped the whole lot!

    ...I've been in business 31 years now. And never had so much as a blind penny's worth of help or support from any of these so-called 'support agencies'. Quite the opposite; the little incidents I outline above are just minor examples of how obstructive they can be. It strikes me that they exist purely to keep certain well-connected 'types' "oot the way o' the buses" as we say in these parts.

    Go and talk to them by all means... And if you can get something out of them all well and good. But take a good supply of salt with you! At the end of the day, in my experience, you're out there on your own and it's a case of sink or swim!
     
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    Mr D

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    Yes, something that sounds great in a council or cabinet meeting when it finally arrives on the front line gets used to prop up the jobs that exist - in the organisation.
    Makes me suspicious of any organisation that supposedly seeks to do itself out of a job.

    About 10 years ago I was working with a charity and the local council had been allocated around £30 million for a particular issue that this charity specialised in. Several organisations worked together to apply for a grant and one of the people helping us was a grants advisor employed by the council.
    All the money had to be justified and receipts provided / payslips provided through the project.
    £30 million was allocated to that council, £30 million was spent by that council.
    Less than £20 million was paid outside the council and the ringfence idea was not something the council could do itself.
    Admin fees, staff attending meetings, presentations, report writing etc - absorbed over £10 million over a few years.
    All perfectly legal, all accounted for.
     
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    .. never had so much as a blind penny's worth of help or support from any of these so-called 'support agencies'. Quite the opposite; the little incidents I outline above are just minor examples of how obstructive they can be.
    I suppose if I mention Creative Scotland, you might become violent! I have seen it happen!

    And if I mention Bòrd na Gàidhlig to any Gaelic speakers, their eyes narrow, their jaw-lines harden, they clench their fists and a muttering of rude oaths, first in Gaelic and then in English, begins.

    The object of these quangos seems to be to prevent any progress in the field in which they are active, by wasting large sums of money on bureaucracy, staffing costs, market surveys, initiatives and bunging a few hundred or thousand at the children of the aspirant middle classes who plainly do not need it - for example, giving some ghastly school rock band £400 to make a record or a 'project short-film' or similar nonsense.
     
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    Mr D

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    Feb 12, 2017
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    I suppose if I mention Creative Scotland, you might become violent! I have seen it happen!

    And if I mention Bòrd na Gàidhlig to any Gaelic speakers, their eyes narrow, their jaw-lines harden, they clench their fists and a muttering of rude oaths, first in Gaelic and then in English, begins.

    The object of these quangos seems to be to prevent any progress in the field in which they are active, by wasting large sums of money on bureaucracy, staffing costs, market surveys, initiatives and bunging a few hundred or thousand at the children of the aspirant middle classes who plainly do not need it - for example, giving some ghastly school rock band £400 to make a record or a 'project short-film' or similar nonsense.

    Got £750 for a breathalyser once.
    Maybe I'm a failure regarding school rock bands, only time I managed that it was close to £5k to make a video.
    Which included the cameras and editing software.
     
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    C

    Caledonian TV

    ...Hmm the 'C' word! A bigger bunch of charlatans is hard to imagine!

    Yes; they seem to exist mainly in support of the 'Milngavie Mafia'... Milngavie being a prosperous suburb of Glasgow. I could write screeds - but the only time a genuine 'scheemie' gets a look-in is if they're some poor wee sowell that they can parade around as evidence of their grace and favour! Genuine grass-roots talent would stand no chance if it was down to them!

    £5k to make a video. Which included the cameras and editing software.

    They thought you were going to buy a camera and editing software??? Just to make one video??? Not that you'd get very much by way of a decent camera for £5K - What about batteries, legs, lights, mics, edit suite, labour etc. etc. etc.
     
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    Mr D

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    They thought you were going to buy a camera and editing software??? Just to make one video??? Not that you'd get very much by way of a decent camera for £5K - What about batteries, legs, lights, mics, edit suite, labour etc. etc. etc.

    They didn't think it. They knew it.
    And the cameras (2 of them) were purchased. School already had some equipment, this added to their stock.
     
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    SteveHa

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    Jun 16, 2016
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    Some years ago when I was setting up my own tax/accountancy practice I went to one of those free business advice meetings, one on one. They didn't really tell me anything I didn't know..

    However, it was the start of a relationship that resulted in many referrals from them for my services.

    Bottom line, it depends on what you want out of it.
     
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