Previous customer and small claims.

[Dturner43]

Hello I could really do with some advice on a LTD company currently being struck off with company's house.
A bit of a back story my husband carried out work (bathroom refit, labour only) through his company a year ago (Quotation was in company name) the customer was a nightmare to say the least. The husband would ok each stage and then his wife would want things changing ie different tiles even though they purchased them Anyway my husband completed the work and thankfully took photos throughout the process . They paid in full (cash) and that was all we heard from them. The company however was not making the money it needed to warrant keeping it going so it was set to be struck off in September this year. Now we have had a letter via the post (a year later) from this ex customer claiming that my husband caused damage to the property via poor works man ship. She claims there was a water leak from the shower unit 2 months after completion which she had another plumber out and her and the plumber agreed thats what the issue was so they replaced the unit. She now has stated that she has had another contractor in to complete other work and on removal of tiles in said bathroom they discovered a leak behind the shower (husbands photos taken over a period of pipes being installed, plaster drying etc shows no signs of leaks ) and that all the tiles and plaster had to come off and she wants my husband to pay to rectify it or face small claims.
My issues are as follows
. We have not heard of any issues with his work until now
. She has openly written that the plumber and herself have changed the shower unit because that was where the leak was found and we have no idea if any damage was caused by this person.
.She has had a contractor in to do other work ie changing tiles and is blaming my husband for plaster coming from the walls whilst being removed and apparently damage to the floor saying the leak caused it to rot.
.Photos thankfully show the standard on which my husband completed the work.
. She says it was not completed in time (3weeks) so she told him to leave however there was never a contract stating this time and also again my husbands photos of start and end date show the day of rip out to full completion was just over 2 weeks.
And lastly the company is in the process of being voluntarily struck off with no outstanding debts.
Any advice would be gratefully received.

 

[Deleted member 335660]

With my experience of small claims as defendant and claimant, is that she stands no chance of success.

Your customer has not raised the complaints with you, has not given you the chance to remedy any work and has now used other people.

As she has communicated with you, don’t ignore it. Don’t call them.

Write a letter and send it by registered post saying that you are sorry to hear of the problems, that you were not made aware of these issues and given the chance to correct them. Now she has used other people to do work there is nothing you can do.

Keep all your paperwork and pictures. Sit tight.

If they do go to the small claims then gather all the evidence including your response and I think you will be alright.

 

[WaveJumper]

I am sure others will have much more detailed advice on this subject but did your husband actually invoice for this work through the ltd was all correspondence done through the ltd and did this customer contact the ltd or your husband direct.

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

As @WaveJumper says, key to everything is was the contract and payments to the Limited company.

If so, they can only take action against the limited company and not your husband directly.

The onus on any claim is for the claimant to prove you are at fault.

In the first instance a short response, in writing, acknowledging their claim should be fine:
"Dear xxxx

We can confirm receipt of your letter of xxxx.

We disagree with your comments and allegations.

Kind regards,
XXX"

Once the company has been formally struck off/dissolved, the company will no longer exist and you can ignore all further communications.

 

[Fagin2021]

Frank's letter is best - though I wouldn't put the kisses at the bottom.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

As mentioned, the issue is between the client and the limited company, not your husband.

They can take the company to court and if they win (which they probably won't) they can go after the company, which on assumes, has nothing to give!

 

[kulture]

She sounds like a typical difficult customer. So I would echo what has been said above. Send the letter suggested by Frank and make sure that it is clearly from the company. It is likely with this kind of customer that if they think that the company is being dissolved they will switch the claim to the individual. They simply do not understand the difference between a company and an individual and will assume both are equally liable.

So if you reply from the company and they continue the communication with the company this will further strengthen your position that the contract was with the company and not an individual.

Likewise as above any subsequent defence will be that the company was not notified of any deficiencies when first detected and was not given any opportunity to rectify the alleged deficiencies.

I would take time and let this linger on so that the company will be dissolved before it gets to court. At which point she will no doubt try to switch to going after the individual and by then it will be too late.

 

[The Byre]

She's probably just trying it on!

I have just been in this situation as a retail customer and gave the vendor three chances to rectify faults. The fourth time the unit was faulty, I rejected the product, but gave the retailer the opportunity to up-sell to a better product for the difference in price - which they did, as the product was not yet six months old!

That is reasonable behaviour. What you have there sounds (according to what you have written!) unreasonable behaviour. The retail customer must allow the vendor to rectify any faults.

Had I asked another company to fix those four faults in the defective unit, that would have been my total responsibility and at my cost. As a consumer, I MUST allow the retailer or tradesman (in this case) to remedy the faults. There are exceptions to this general rule, but only under fairly abnormal circumstances.

 

[Frank Wessely]

Hi Dturner43

There is some very useful advice above but my question is did your husband's company provide any type of guarantee or warranty as regards parts or workmanship? If so, was the claim made inside the guarantee period? If not that's good. Your husband will know whether this is a try on or if there is any credence to these claims. You can let the dissolution process continue but bear in mind that the customer could contact Companies House and request that the dissolution be halted due to their claim. Then it's up to the Registrar what happens next.

However if the customer issues Court proceedings against the company prior to dissolution then he should see a lawyer to consider next steps. I would not think that it is safe for your husband to allow dissolution to take place if there are ongoing Court proceedings. Similarly if any guarantee was still in force at the time of the claim this should be resolved before dissolution else there are risks for your husband.

Also do note that even if the company is dissolved the customer could subsequently apply to Court to have it restored so that their claim can continue. It's unlikely but one never knows.

Finally whilst your husband doesn't have any direct personal liability to the customer based upon your narrative, notwithstanding its dissolution his liability as director (to the company) continues as if the company had not been dissolved.

I hope that this helps.

Thanks.

 

[kulture]

I believe that the question of warranty or guarantee is immaterial, because the customer has had another plumber come along and replace the shower without involving your husband. it will be difficult for them to prove that they did not disturb the pipes doing this.

 

[Frank Wessely]

I wouldn't say at this point that any guarantee is immaterial as we do not know enough of the detail however I do agree that the customer would find it difficult to enforce a guarantee given the remedial works which have allegedly been undertaken.

Thanks.

 

[HFE Signs]

As above, if another tradesman (separate to your husband) has worked or altered anything since the original installation then how can you be expected to guarantee his work.

 

[MBE2017]

I think your old client has very little hope of any successful case.

Firstly, they did not contact your husband to make good any repairs necessary. Secondly the second plumber could have cause damage.
Thirdly, as for plaster coming off the walls with tiles being removed, who is to say someone else could have done it without plaster coming away.
Fourthly, they have not mentioned any independent inspection report, only competing tradesmens opinions. There is nothing to state they are true honest opinions.

I very much doubt they have photographic evidence like yourselves either. Lastly, and the most important point, why did they pay in full if not happy? You state the shower supposedly leaked two months after completion of the job, but if the shower was faulty, and your husband only fitted the item, maybe they should be talking to the shower manufacturer.

Water leaks due to faulty connections normally become apparent within a few days, even seconds, not months.

 

[The Resolver]

Write a letter and send it by registered post saying that you are sorry to hear of the problems, that you were not made aware of these issues and given the chance to correct them. Now she has used other people to do work there is nothing you can do.

Saying you were not given a chance to correct the issues could be taken as an admission there was a duty to correct them. Keep it simple as in Frank's draft.

Tell them that,in any event, the company has ceased trading and has no assets or cash.

 

[Deleted member 335660]

Saying you were not given a chance to correct the issues could be taken as an admission there was a duty to correct them. Keep it simple as in Frank's draft.

Tell them that,in any event, the company has ceased trading and has no assets or cash.

Well in my experience the judge wants to know if there was a problem, did the complainant give the supplier a chance to correct it. I guess you could use different wording like "did not give us a chance to address the problem they complained about".

Never lost a small claims case.

 

[The Resolver]

“Even if there was a problem for which we are responsible,, both of which we deny, you never gave us an opportunity to rectify.”

,

 

[The Byre]

“Even if there was a problem for which we are responsible,, both of which we deny, you never gave us an opportunity to rectify.”,

Almost poetry, but here's (IMO) an even more poetic reply -

Even if there's a fault and we say there was not,
In fact, we say that you are talking total rot,
The fact that you messed with it and left it for a year
Means that you can take your claim and stick it in your ear!*

*other words that rhyme with 'year' are available!

 

[WaveJumper]

Almost poetry, but here's (IMO) an even more poetic reply -

Even if there's a fault and we say there was not,
In fact, we say that you are talking total rot,
The fact that you messed with it and left it for a year
Means that you can take your claim and stick it in your ear!*

*other words that rhyme with 'year' are available!

If you had let known within the week
We’d have shot round with wrench in hand
And given your pipes a little tweak
Since you called in your plumber’s mate
Unfortunately, now it’s all to late ?

 

[Frank Wessely]

There are clearly several hidden talents in the forum......!

 

[The Resolver]

Even if there's a fault and we say there was not,
In fact, we say that you are talking total rot,
A year of your inaction makes this just such a farce
And means that you can take your claim and stick it up your .....hmmm - ideas anyone?

 

[WaveJumper]

Even if there's a fault and we say there was not,
In fact, we say that you are talking total rot,
A year of your inaction makes this just such a farce
And means that you can take your claim and stick it up your .....hmmm - ideas anyone?

I don't want a red card from Ozzy ?

 

[Dturner43]

Thank you all for your help and amazing poetry! Sorry I have not replied earlier however the stress of it all caused our little one to arrive earlier than planned. I have now managed to write a very short but straight forward letter so we shall see.

 

[WaveJumper]

Best of luck and keep us all updated on how it goes

 

[Newchodge]

Thank you all for your help and amazing poetry! Sorry I have not replied earlier however the stress of it all caused our little one to arrive earlier than planned. I have now managed to write a very short but straight forward letter so we shall see.

Congratulations. Please forget all about this stupidity (on your ex-customer's part), send the short letter and get on with enjoying yout little one.

 

[HFE Signs]

Thank you all for your help and amazing poetry! Sorry I have not replied earlier however the stress of it all caused our little one to arrive earlier than planned. I have now managed to write a very short but straight forward letter so we shall see.

Congratulations on the new arrival

 

[Dturner43]

Well the small claims letter came today ? seriously could do without this and seriously stressed

 

[MBE2017]

Well the small claims letter came today ? seriously could do without this and seriously stressed

Try not to worry unduly, the Court will listen to both accounts, but without informing you of any problems and hiring another company, I think you have little to worry about.

Enjoy your little one instead of worrying.

 

[Dturner43]

Try not to worry unduly, the Court will listen to both accounts, but without informing you of any problems and hiring another company, I think you have little to worry about.

Enjoy your little one instead of worrying.

Thank you. It is very hard not to worry though and frankly be angry over it all, Ive heard they are attempting to do the same to another company (joys if living in a smallish town)

 

[pentel]

Has the claim been made against the ltd company or your husband?

If it is the limited company (which has no assets) this should not be a problem as it is closed and doesn't have the funds to pay for any claim

If it is your husband no problem, he wasn't contacted to do any work.

 

[Newchodge]

Well the small claims letter came today ? seriously could do without this and seriously stressed

Is it a letter setting out the basis of the claim, or is it from the court asking you to file a defence?

 

[Dturner43]

Is it a letter setting out the basis of the claim, or is it from the court asking you to file a defence?

File a defence

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Has the claim been made against the ltd company or your husband?

?

 

[Newchodge]

If the named Defendant on the form is the ltd company then complete it. You are defending the whole claim and the grounds for your defence will be -

1. The defendant was contracted to carry out works to (fit a bathroom or whatever) for (£xyz)
2. The works were commenced on (date) and completed on (date)
3. The claimant expressed themselves to be fully satisfied with the work carried out and paid in full.
4. On (date) the deendant received notification of dissatisfactionwith the works and demanded a payment of (£xyz).
5. It is denied that the works were defective in the way specified or at all.
6. If, which is denied, the works were in any way defective the claimant failed to notify thedefendant in a timely fashion or allow the defendant to inspect the works or carry out any remedial work which may have been required.

I suggest you set this out as a separate word document and, if you like, you can send it to me by PM to comment on before you submit it. If you are going to do that please could you also send a copy of the details of claim.

If the claim is in the name of your husband the defence sshould simply satte that it is denied that the defendant had any contract to carry out any works for the claimant at any time.

 

[Dturner43]

Has the claim been made against the ltd company or your husband?

If it is the limited company (which has no assets) this should not be a problem as it is closed and doesn't have the funds to pay for any claim

If it is your husband no problem, he wasn't contacted to do any work.

?

Company x

 

[HFE Signs]

You don't have much to worry about unless you have personally secured any loans for the company.

 

[MBE2017]

It might be worth asking, if this ver gets to the small claims court, if, as they state leaking pipes at the shower caused damage behind the tiles, why did the plumber who repaired the leaking shower not notice such damage?

I don’t see this going anywhere myself.

 

[Michael Loveridge]

As the company is in the process of being struck off then there really isn't any point in even filing a Defence to the claim, as doing so will only keep the claim alive and cause you further stress.

If you don't file a Defence the claimant will obtain a default judgment, but as the company has no assets it's not worth the paper it's written on, and they can't take enforcement action against your husband personally.

Just make sure that the claim hasn't been issued against both the company and your husband.