2 builders at the same time for a quote?

[MrsPWN]

I need a couple of quotes and only have access to the property for a limited time, is it wrong to have 2 builders there together?

 

[Faevilangel]

They could see it as playing each other off for the lowest quote. I would ask one to wait outside while the other does his look and quote. This would reduce the above.

 

[maxine]

Is it domestic or commercial?

If domestic then it's unusual but not really a problem if you tell tradespeople beforehand and not surprise them

When we have done this in the past we use it primarily as an information gathering exercise to measure up, clarify requirements, make notes, take photos etc but would not be making recommendations or suggestions, or discuss pricing options so openly in front of competitors.

If commercial then it's a bit less unusual as it's no different to responding to invitation to tenders for contracts really as everyone goes along at the same time if it were a shop etc.

I would also feel uncomfortable if there were inappropriate questions and put on the spot in front of competitor too.

Other than that if it were us attending with a competitor present we would agree as long as we could have an individual time slot to discuss on a one to one basis afterwards.

 

[S-Marketing]

You need to make sure they dont know each other or they will decide who gets the job and fix the price.

 

[estwig]

I only ever had this done to me twice, both times I walked off in disgust. If people can't be bothered to give me their time, I can't be bothered to give them a quote.

No offence, but that's how I see it.

 

[maxine]

You need to make sure they dont know each other or they will decide who gets the job and fix the price.

haha ... there speaks a voice of experience

 

[Parthelan]

Any tradespeople weve had in never gave a price there and then anyhow - they collected all the info and emailed or posted the quote later.

So as Maxine said, if theyre forwarned that due to lack of time, another person will also be there to quote, it might not be a problem.

Funny though, dunno why, Id feel uncomfortable personally - when weve had people around, I like to make sure theyve had a good look at what needs doing, ask them a few questions, ask them for other places theyve worked so I can go and have a nosey and give them the chance to ask me anything .... it's always taken a bit of time, so I personally wouldnt be comfortable with another tradesperson hanging about while all this was going on.

 

[maxine]

It's difficult because when you are there you can make recommendations and give the customer an idea of alternatives that perhaps they hadn't thought of. (That's part of the job and what people expect afterall) and this would save money or time or give a better solution or improvement.

But I sure as hell I wouldn't be recommending that for other competitors to nick the ideas and then undercut so it's the customer that is likely to miss out on that opportunity

 

[maxine]

Any tradespeople weve had in never gave a price there and then anyhow - they collected all the info and emailed or posted the quote later.

So as Maxine said, if theyre forwarned that due to lack of time, another person will also be there to quote, it might not be a problem.

Funny though, dunno why, Id feel uncomfortable personally - when weve had people around, I like to make sure theyve had a good look at what needs doing, ask them a few questions, ask them for other places theyve worked so I can go and have a nosey and give them the chance to ask me anything .... it's always taken a bit of time, so I personally wouldnt be comfortable with another tradesperson hanging about while all this was going on.

Mind you we have been made to stand outside in the rain having parked what seems like a mile up the road before now while the previous chap finishes off his quote.

There's always this funny / nervous / awkward smile between tradespeople too when this happens. Especially when they walk past a GIRL who has turned up to quote! lol .. that bit is quite amusing for me

 

[Parthelan]

It's difficult because when you are there you can make recommendations and give the customer an idea of alternatives that perhaps they hadn't thought of. (That's part of the job and what people expect afterall) and this would save money or time or give a better solution or improvement.

But I sure as hell I wouldn't be recommending that for other competitors to nick the ideas and then undercut so it's the customer that is likely to miss out on that opportunity

Precicely, which is why I like you in one at a time, single file, and have a good old natter.

In fairness though, the last guys we had in doing a big job, they made an absolute corker of a suggestion as they commenced work - these were the workers, not the guy who cmae originally to do the quote - something so brillant I proceeded to hit my head with the oven door over and over for not thinking of it myself.

Their experience and skill also brought with it a shed load of expertise - worth every penny

 

[MrsPWN]

Thanks for the insights, this is a commercial property with a flat above with both needing work. The reason I won't have much time is because I am thinking of buying it, I realise it is in the vendors best interest to give us as much time as possible but I am aware an of hour with each might be a bit much to expect in the evening.

One of the builders is the one who has done all the work there over the last few years, the other is one that has worked for me before. Both live within 4 miles so I am sure they know each other.

OT
Maxine, Super Mod.........go you

 

[MrsPWN]

BTW any tips for getting a good quote happily rec'd. I am a bit worried that the one who knows the building well, (and obviously the vendor) may underprice to help the sale go through but as some of my work is undoing stuff he has already done it would make sense to hear from him.

 

[avalanche]

the idea of having multiple quotes is to get a feel for different contractors, see if they gel with you, see if they are helpful and enthusiastic about the job, what they can bring to the job
if you are just looking for the cheapest price save everyone a bit of time and tell them that and give each a spec list of items/meterage so you are comparing apples to apples

 

[MASSEY]

It's disgusting.

 

[maxine]

Well I can't say that everyone has the same outlook as me but we are more than happy to give up an hour in the evenings for quotes and it's built into our work pattern as part of the job. This is for serious buyers of course I hate to admit this but often with "potential purchases" it's just a basic quote until it has definitely been purchased as sales fall through for so many reasons so we try not to give up too much time unnecessarily

Also the more time you spend upfront going through things in the first place the less issues arise later such as materials, methods, ideas, problems, planning the work, payments, start & end times, who makes the tea, everything really Would much rather spend time doing this at quote than niggling with stuff later.

Also it's never bothered us at all going back to the same places. The opposite really as you know what you are dealing so more prepared. There are homes near us where we have done bathrooms three times over in the same house (one of which had a disabled bath put in one week and changed three weeks later!) That's all parr for the course

 

[MrsPWN]

Massey you have lost me, what on earth is disgusting?

Both guys know the situation and I need the quotes so I can calculate my offer. It's certainly not all about the cheapest, I have never gone with the cheapest but the best, no point in doing a job twice.

The one that can do the job best will get it, what is the problem with that?

 

[weevil68]

I appreciate your problem but (I am a plumber) by seeing both at the same time you are limiting their input

Rarely do I price a job where the client knows exactly what they need - I can usually give them some advice or recommendations which could improve on their own idea or save them some money.

My advice would be to leave one outside whilst you speak to the other, they would prefer this to the alternative.

Hope this helps

 

[maxine]

I don't see what is disgusting either about attending at the same time on it's own

When I think about the corporate world and selling software for example where all the sales reps are sat outside in a reception area waiting for their turn, that's pretty grim

What's disgusting is when people are tyre-kicking and have no regard at all for the tradespersons time. For us it means we may have turned down a callout to keep an appointment for a quote and then the little so-and-sos go out for the evening and forget to let us know

Or perhaps Mr and Mrs cannot decide or haven't even started to think about what they want and you end up in the middle of a domestic situation when you really want to go home and have your tea, put the kids to bed and watch something on the telly!

Or when the tradespeople are asked "what will you do for cash" (quickly edited to "what will you reduce your price to for cash payment!)

... difficult to maintain enthusiasm and gel well etc

(just saying)

 

[Parthelan]

Or when the tradespeople are asked "what will you do for cash"

woops.....

:redface:

 

[MrsPWN]

Hehe, never ask a woman what she will do for cash

Well as we don't know what is disgusting, and I have a very good idea of what I want and a rough idea of price (£12-£15k) I will talk to the vendor and arrange for them to come approx 40 mins apart, if I prepare a document with the ideas I have I think that will be enough time.

Don't s'pose you fancy a couple of weeks in Snowdonia Max?

 

[S-Marketing]

I suppose if all you need is a couple of simple quotes for a given specification then what you propose is probably ok.

As others have mentioned though, don't expect the builders to be giving you many alternative ideas or suggestions for better ways of getting things done though. Decent trades often build their competitive advantage around having ideas and experience that will add value, you wont get these types of trades bothering to quote on such terms.

With trade and service businesses I have owned, I've made sure that I have had an advantage over the competition by being able to do things they simply couldn't do. I certainly wouldn't be giving much away to a client who had the competition waiting outside for me to finish.

 

[MrsPWN]

Yeah, I can see that tho don't really feel I can ask the vendor to give up 2 evenings. Surely tradespeople know potential clients are going to get 2-3 quotes, what diff does it make if they are one afterthe other or diff days?

I have taken notice and won't have them both at the same time.

 

[S-Marketing]

I'm not having a go, I just think you will get better value advice if you aren't seen to be putting little value on their time. At the end of the day I think as Estwig suggested, its more about having respect for the person coming to quote than anything else. Having them coming in quick succession just seems like you are getting a price so you can make a decision about the place, and then getting them out the door asap.

When working with trades you just need to play the game.

 

[maxine]

Don't s'pose you fancy a couple of weeks in Snowdonia Max?

I'd love it but I don't do the work lol

 

[S-Marketing]

I'd love it but I don't do the work lol

Just as well really, what with you being a girl and all.

 

[MrsPWN]

Well I have just had a lovely chat with builder #1 (theirs) and we are on for tomorrow, slightly worryingly tho he said he would pop in to the premises today and confirm with the vendor, I really hope they don't concoct some kind of deal.

 

[MrsPWN]

Ooh Stretchy you've asked for it now

 

[S-Marketing]

Well I have just had a lovely chat with builder #1 (theirs) and we are on for tomorrow, slightly worryingly tho he said he would pop in to the premises today and confirm with the vendor, I really hope they don't concoct some kind of deal.

Personally, i'd suggest using a couple of independent builders.

You could get properly stitched up if Builder 1 knows the vendor, and also knows builder 2. Remember that the vendor is also less than honest with his accounting, tax returns and PAYE.

 

[S-Marketing]

Ooh Stretchy you've asked for it now

I've just noticed Maxine's a mod now. Well then, it was nice knowing you all, see you after the ban.

 

[maxine]

Nah you can have those remarks, honestly it's fine! I was put on this earth for some things but mixing plaster ain't one of them the only tools I am allowed to use is a kettle and tape measure haha

 

[hbcraen]

I would keep the builders apart. They may know each other and could collude over pricing.

 

[S-Marketing]

I would keep the builders apart. They may know each other and could collude over pricing.

I'm sure someone may have already suggested that.

 

[Estimator]

The reason I won't have much time is because I am thinking of buying it.

This is the 'disgusting' bit that would put me off quoting.
I would try to establish that the person you are dealing with actually owns the property. If they don't you are in a virtual situation with a 'maybe' owner of the future. Is the quote legal even, if they aren't the owner?
The process of buying property can be a long and complicated one and at the moment a lot of sales are not completed because of chains or loan problems. You could be wasting your time, or are you just there to provide a quote for purposes of negotiating on the asking price?

 

[MASSEY]

Firstly it is disgusting expecting free quotes for a property you don't even own, secondly it is disgusting expecting two people to quote against each other at the same time.

I got an email off a guy recently who doesnt even own the house he wants a free quote to rewire. I originally told his misses 70 quid for someone to take a look and tell them the deal. They aren't even sure if it needs rewiring according to them "the consumer unit is ok and the kitchen wiring has been done" how they will be able to tell the consumer unit is fine is beyond me.

And the cheeky git had the cheek to say "this is far from speculative we have had serveys"

You can't get any more speculative than not owning the property and getting quotes to see if it is viable to purchase, and want a free quote.

I hate people like this with passion.

 

[MrsPWN]

For starters Massey you have no idea what my personal situation is so don't jump to conclusions. The last property I sold the buyers wanted the loft converting, they had companies round to see if it was viable, it was and they had the work done before they moved in, I don't think it is unusual at all.

As for establishing as to whether they own the property, there is no worry there either. The chances are there would be no chain involved and finances are in place should I decide to go ahead. The work would need to be started ASAP which is why I need all my ducks in a row.

ETA
Estimator, It's weird that you think I don't know who owns the property, what on earth gave you that idea?

 

[Estimator]

Estimator, It's weird that you think I don't know who owns the property, what on earth gave you that idea?

I think you have misunderstood my post, I wrote:
I would try to establish that the person you are dealing with actually owns the property
This was not a comment addressed to you, but rather it was some advice given to the tradesmen members of the forum, based on my experiences with time wasters, speculators and wannabe property developers. Use of the phrase 'picking up keys at the agents' normally starts to set bells ringing.
So, I would suggest that any builders that you approach charge you for their time, the cost of preparing a quote can then be deducted from any future order.
That shouldn't worry you, after all you seem to be telling us that you are a serious client.

 

[estwig]

Firstly it is disgusting expecting free quotes for a property you don't even own, secondly it is disgusting expecting two people to quote against each other at the same time.

I got an email off a guy recently who doesnt even own the house he wants a free quote to rewire. I originally told his misses 70 quid for someone to take a look and tell them the deal. They aren't even sure if it needs rewiring according to them "the consumer unit is ok and the kitchen wiring has been done" how they will be able to tell the consumer unit is fine is beyond me.

And the cheeky git had the cheek to say "this is far from speculative we have had serveys"

You can't get any more speculative than not owning the property and getting quotes to see if it is viable to purchase, and want a free quote.

I hate people like this with passion.

When I was building and actively touting for building work, I'd get 10 phone calls a week from people who where in the process of buying a house. The survey they had done on the property, said it needed a new roof, had damp, whatever, and could I give them a quote for the work.

I would politely explain that I knew they only wanted the quote, to use as leverage against the vendor to get the price of the property down and I was very unlikely to see any work outta it. Some would agree with me, others would deny it. I then explained that I charged for these kinda quotes, as I could help them reduce the price of the property, but a good quote took time to produce and if there is no chance of seeing any work, why should I do it?

Most people would comment that I had to give them a free quote!! Others would get angry, thinking I was trying to rip them off, one even called trading standards to report me. I thought I was offering a sound business proposition.

I gave up on the idea of trying to explain all this to people and trying to help them. I resorted to saying were too busy to people who didn't already own the property.

People think builders have to give free quotes. The media has taught them to get free quotes, as this is a free service builders offer, regardless of if there is any chance of work in it for them.

The builder has been demonised.

You won't change the public's perception that, builders have to give free quotes and give free advice. So don't get angry about what you can't change, except it and learn to work with it.

 

[estwig]

The last property I sold the buyers wanted the loft converting, they had companies round to see if it was viable, it was and they had the work done before they moved in, I don't think it is unusual at all.

That is extremely unusual.

 

[MrsPWN]

Incase anyone is interested I met with the builder that has been steadily upgrading the premises today and he was so lovely.

We talked about the 4 jobs that need doing and timescales etc. I don't think I will bother with my builder atm as the knowledge this guy has about what is behind particular walls, and why there are certain pipes in the basement etc is priceless (plus my builder is off with a bad back atm.)

Thanks for all the advice, as for your comment as it said "you" and was in a thread I started I think it was an easy mistake to make

estwig, nice to know I am unusual....ok maybe it was the situation not me but hey ho

 

[S-Marketing]

Incase anyone is interested I met with the builder that has been steadily upgrading the premises today and he was so lovely.

We talked about the 4 jobs that need doing and timescales etc. I don't think I will bother with my builder atm as the knowledge this guy has about what is behind particular walls, and why there are certain pipes in the basement etc is priceless (plus my builder is off with a bad back atm.)

Thanks for all the advice, as for your comment as it said "you" and was in a thread I started I think it was an easy mistake to make

estwig, nice to know I am unusual....ok maybe it was the situation not me but hey ho

Don't keep us in suspense. Are you making an offer on the place or not.

The offer of a free chat about marketing the place still stands if you are.