Cheap & Cheerful Web Designer

[streetslocal]

Im in no means desperate and look at it this way.

I charge £50 for a brochure website which takes about 2.5 hours.

Then i charge per hosting at £3.99 per month subject to a 12 month contract.

Total price £97.88 for 2.5 hours.

Average at £39 per hour....

So thats not really desperation is it?

I get the benefit of recurring income which means i have an income come rain or shine which benefits me as my son can be taken into hospital at a moments notice but i still have an income.

Im not the cheapest and im not the most expensive but what i do offer is an alterntive for people and at a price they can afford.

Im not here to make my millions im here to ensure my family have a long term income which we now do.

 

[Matt1959]

I charge £50 for a brochure website which takes about 2.5 hours.

Then i charge per hosting at £3.99 per month subject to a 12 month contract.

Total price £97.88 for 2.5 hours.

.

so when you support your hosting clients with their queries, you work for free? and the more you get, the more of your time will be spent working for nothing:| I mean, if I raise a ticket with my hosting company, I bet they spend a minimum 15 minutes a time dealing with it. And, ongoing website support for buyers, you do that for nothing as well? I can see what you mean with the £39ph, but in reality, its nowhere near that for hours worked is it?

 

[streetslocal]

so when you support your hosting clients with their queries, you work for free? and the more you get, the more of your time will be spent working for nothing:| I mean, if I raise a ticket with my hosting company, I bet they spend a minimum 15 minutes a time dealing with it. And, ongoing website support for buyers, you do that for nothing as well? I can see what you mean with the £39ph, but in reality, its nowhere near that for hours worked is it?

I have such little downtime that support costs are minimal.

 

[Interconnect IT]

It's not just about downtime. It's surprising where the queries come from. Today one of our clients complained that titles don't show on her website. We use sIFR, which means Flash is required. If there's a problem with the Flash install, or Flash has crashed, it can cause issues. Not our fault or problem, and all she needed was to restart her computer, but it still takes time to deal with the issue.

Every day brings issues like this and it's very hard to charge for them, so we end up not doing so. It costs us money and gives the clients good support, but if our hourly rate was pared down we'd be struggling.

However, ours is a full service offering, and yours is a budget one. They're different, and I think actually that most clients understand the difference. We can advise in both directions. I often send away potential clients because we and they are not necessarily a good fit. By keeping a good fit we get something like a 90% annual retention rate.

 

[matt.chatterley]

Some really good comments by various posters here (on all three sides of the coin).
Interconnect - I think you're right on the money when you say customers understand the difference.

We aren't in the budget market either, as we tend to offer fully managed/hosted bespoke solutions - when people want to do something beyond the norm, and often in this case they already have expectations as to the budget they will require, and so forth.

That said, the "budget" market (almost feel as if that sounds a bit derisive, which it isn't supposed to), shouldn't be overlooked - there are many, many people who don't want a free solution (DIY), but don't want to go fully into something with bells and whistles flying!

 

[streetslocal]

Budget does not affect the support we offer.
Anything but...
We offer a full support package and often go beyond the call of duty to help people.
I actually find myself happy at the end of the day to have people thanking you for dedicated support.
This years annual retention is currently 93% so i can say so far so good.

The good thing about our service we offer various levels of design from basic through too bespoke.

I can honestly say there is not a job to big or too small.

For example www.streetslocal.co.uk is a project i have built from scratch with pure handcoding and thats not a small job...:redface:

 

[myroundbox]

Personally i offered to do the job because it's 2 html pages of content... Thats not a hard job, at all. Someone is looking for a basic website for little cost, it wouldn't take long for me to do and it helps them out - and i'd get £50 for it, which being a student is nothing to be sniffed at.

I actually like designing websites and coding, it's not all about money for me. At least not yet...

 

[Big J]

Same old thing, you get what you pay for.

If you want to portray your business as a pile of pants for £50 then go for for it, although I think your doing more harm than good. Even just a 'business card' site.

Is this thread a joke?

 

[streetslocal]

Same old thing, you get what you pay for.

If you want to portray your business as a pile of pants for £50 then go for for it, although I think your doing more harm than good. Even just a 'business card' site.

Is this thread a joke?

No the thread is not a joke at all....
Whats your business?

Fast food?

 

[KidsBeeHappy]

Same old thing, you get what you pay for.

If you want to portray your business as a pile of pants for £50 then go for for it, although I think your doing more harm than good. Even just a 'business card' site.

Is this thread a joke?

There are lots of hosts where you can register a domain, and use a free template builder site, and within an hour or so have a site up and running. Using stock photos, templates etc. Total cost £2.99 pa domain registration cost.

Yes, it's not the best for SEO.
Yes, it's not uniquely different
Yes, it's probably not the most professional way to sell your business
Yes, anyone vaguely in the know will look at it and say "it's just a template site".

There is a lot of snobbery on here when it comes to websites. Mainly because the people here earn the majority of their income through websites (either designing or using them to sell services).

But there are still millions of UK businesses, small business, where the use of the web is untapped. And streetslocal probably has a very good idea of this because his core customer base of Tradesmen are exactly one of those markets.

There are some tradesmen here who have embraced the use of the web, produced good websites, and used them to sucessfully harvest good business. No-one is arguing that a proper built and more expensive website won't stand head and shoulders above a cheap quick template site.

It's a bit like the business cards, yes, probably designed and printed business cards are lovely, but the Vistaprint freebies do do the job, they may not leave the same impression, but it's better than scribbling your number down on a scrappy bit of paper.

However, you are wrong to dismiss a market of over a million small businesses, because you consider what they want to be "pants". Many of whom are not prepared to invest £1000+ in a website that they don't know whether it will have any real impact on their business, and many of whom simply don't have a marketing budget of £1000.

If you help and nuture these businesses at this stage, instead of just calling them a "joke", you build a customer base for the future. They wonder why other businesses websites look better and perform better, and then you can start to educate and move onto the more comprehensive websites.

I can sure as heck tell you that our first website cost under £100. I can also tell you that the first significantly big budget website which we have cost over £10k, and really was "pants", and performed less well than the cheaper first one.

Where do you think you're work is coming from in 2009? Do you see many businesses upgrading to signifcantly more expensive and comprehensive websites, or do you predict some entrenchment. If it's the latter, where is your new business going to come from - i'll suggest that it will be folk like my couriers, and i'll predict that it won't be top budget projects.

 

[streetslocal]

There are lots of hosts where you can register a domain, and use a free template builder site, and within an hour or so have a site up and running. Using stock photos, templates etc. Total cost £2.99 pa domain registration cost.

Yes, it's not the best for SEO.
Yes, it's not uniquely different
Yes, it's probably not the most professional way to sell your business
Yes, anyone vaguely in the know will look at it and say "it's just a template site".

There is a lot of snobbery on here when it comes to websites. Mainly because the people here earn the majority of their income through websites (either designing or using them to sell services).

But there are still millions of UK businesses, small business, where the use of the web is untapped. And streetslocal probably has a very good idea of this because his core customer base of Tradesmen are exactly one of those markets.

There are some tradesmen here who have embraced the use of the web, produced good websites, and used them to sucessfully harvest good business. No-one is arguing that a proper built and more expensive website won't stand head and shoulders above a cheap quick template site.

It's a bit like the business cards, yes, probably designed and printed business cards are lovely, but the Vistaprint freebies do do the job, they may not leave the same impression, but it's better than scribbling your number down on a scrappy bit of paper.

However, you are wrong to dismiss a market of over a million small businesses, because you consider what they want to be "pants". Many of whom are not prepared to invest £1000+ in a website that they don't know whether it will have any real impact on their business, and many of whom simply don't have a marketing budget of £1000.

If you help and nuture these businesses at this stage, instead of just calling them a "joke", you build a customer base for the future. They wonder why other businesses websites look better and perform better, and then you can start to educate and move onto the more comprehensive websites.

I can sure as heck tell you that our first website cost under £100. I can also tell you that the first significantly big budget website which we have cost over £10k, and really was "pants", and performed less well than the cheaper first one.

Where do you think you're work is coming from in 2009? Do you see many businesses upgrading to signifcantly more expensive and comprehensive websites, or do you predict some entrenchment. If it's the latter, where is your new business going to come from - i'll suggest that it will be folk like my couriers, and i'll predict that it won't be top budget projects.

That has summed up my feelings exactly.
There are web designers who cater for the blue chips like Nike etc and then theres the designer who caters for the local big businesses and then theres the designer who cater for the small business owners.

I could happily design for both but my market is the smaller business owner as its quite an untapped market as such.

I also agree with the snobbery within the website design business as there are many old school designers who cannot accept change and then there is the new designers who have been trained by the old school.

Web design is a tricky game in all elements and its simply horses for courses.

But i am confident my websites perform for the people that are paying me and they are more than happy to pay as they are getting very good results from such a small outlay.

One business last year cleared a £180,000 profit from a website like this and his income was purely from the website as he was a national business.


So with that in mind the websites do work and work very well.

 

[Big J]

However, you are wrong to dismiss a market of over a million small businesses, because you consider what they want to be "pants". Many of whom are not prepared to invest £1000+ in a website that they don't know whether it will have any real impact on their business, and many of whom simply don't have a marketing budget of £1000.

If you help and nuture these businesses at this stage, instead of just calling them a "joke", you build a customer base for the future. They wonder why other businesses websites look better and perform better, and then you can start to educate and move onto the more comprehensive websites.

Where do you think you're work is coming from in 2009? Do you see many businesses upgrading to signifcantly more expensive and comprehensive websites, or do you predict some entrenchment. If it's the latter, where is your new business going to come from - i'll suggest that it will be folk like my couriers, and i'll predict that it won't be top budget projects.

Didn't mean to offend, sorry.

I just don't see the point in a £50 website. What's it going to achieve apart from displaying a tacky image.

Tacky image = tacky job - sorry but I wouldn't be the only one who feels this way, whether consciously or sub-consciously.

BTW, I never said the business was a joke - just the thread. I also believe that yes, judging by the news stories in the run up to Christmas regarding online shopping I think 2009 will be big for all things web related and in turn a good year for you.

 

[KidsBeeHappy]

I see your points, and am not arguing that a properly built bespoke site will be better.

What it will acheive is to give the courier companies in question a couple of pages to explain to customers about regular routes that they cover, about specialisms with particular types of products (ie antiques etc), to provide details about the geographic areas that operate in, details of european trips etc, to give their contact details, to provide details of their types of vehicles, oneman/twoman deliveries etc.

That they can use to link through to websites like ours where they are bidding for work. A couple of pages where they can include information that you simply can't in a 200 character box.

What it will acheive is a first toe in the website world.

If we go back along the chain, there are very few small business who completely START with a properly designed and bespoke coded site, it's something that you progress/evolve to. Many of my members are at this very first stage.

p.s. no offense taken - i have very thick skin!

 

[streetslocal]

www.telfordsecurity.co.uk is a site that falls within our offer.

This is not a bad looking site is it?

And look at the google postions:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=retail+security+guards+in+telford&btnG=Search&meta=

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=security+guards+in+telford&btnG=Search&meta=

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=e...nstruction+security+guards+in+telford&spell=1

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=e...result&cd=1&q=dog+security+in+telford&spell=1

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=security+in+telford&meta=




So with these results in mind the company do very well and there happy with the results and they can make changes to the site as needed and as required.

 

[Matt1959]

www.telfordsecurity.co.uk is a site that falls within our offer.



quote]

is this a 69.95 job? can the client upload stuff to it themselves? ok I put my hands up here.:redface: I'd say that is more than adequate for a starter website for a trades website. The point is, most of Joe Public havn't a clue whats a great site and whats not and for most of them this sort of site would be fine imho. Real life pics intead of stock ones would inject a bit of real life into it though. But still, at £69 each (forget the ongoing hosting thats a seperate entity however you dress it up) you'd have to be doing between 2 and 3 a day. Thats 12 sites a week, 48 sites a month, 576 sites a year - thats one hell of alot of orders to get and sites to produce

 

[streetslocal]

www.telfordsecurity.co.uk is a site that falls within our offer.



quote]

is this a 69.95 job? can the client upload stuff to it themselves? ok I put my hands up here.:redface: I'd say that is more than adequate for a starter website for a trades website. The point is, most of Joe Public havn't a clue whats a great site and whats not and for most of them this sort of site would be fine imho. Real life pics intead of stock ones would inject a bit of real life into it though. But still, at £69 each (forget the ongoing hosting thats a seperate entity however you dress it up) you'd have to be doing between 2 and 3 a day. Thats 12 sites a week, 48 sites a month, 576 sites a year - thats one hell of alot of orders to get and sites to produce

Yes this site falls within our pricing mentioned in this thread and im glad you liked it
In regards to pricing your sums mentioned above would give a recurring income of £2298 per month ontop of any bespoke work in one year and that would double in the second and triple in the third


But we dont make that many a day so its not that bad.

 

Does your website/hosting stuff fall under another brand or is it just under streetslocal?

 

[Matt1959]

hang on,, I didnt say I liked it, I said it's adequate - get what you pay for and all that, no slur intended

 

[streetslocal]

Does your website/hosting stuff fall under another brand or is it just under streetslocal?

That would be telling....

Expect a full announcement in january....

Expect some very good deals as im sure our redesigned webdesign site will open up the design market for the better.

 

[streetslocal]

hang on,, I didnt say I liked it, I said it's adequate - get what you pay for and all that, no slur intended

Admit it....

You think its good value for money and the seo results were good

Go on admit it...

Its the season og goodwill.

And yes this is a full CMS system to allow the customer to edit it and make changes.

 

[Matt1959]

admit what:| its not great, its adequate
I must say though, as a tradesman, I havn';t seen ONE web design firm that has latched on to the fact that theres a demand for reaonably effective cheapo sites and if they have, their message doesnt come through that they're doing this at all. With local seo being easier to get, I'd have thought its business waiting to be had but no one seems to have latched onto this in a defined way anywhere. Telling savvy tradesmen that are out in all weathers working their nuts off that you get a crap website for anything under £500 is the kiss of death imho

maybe I'm talking rubbish here:|

 

[streetslocal]

Designers please show me a site that you have done for tradesmen and give an indication of pricing you have charged for that project?

 

[360interactive]

Is it me, or did a thread just disappear?!

 

[lex]

Come on you lot be fair,some people dont have the budget at first.
What the hell its christmas
I can do it for them for £50.
If they take the hosting from us at £2.99 per month

Drop me a PM if intrested.

I wouldnt choose a designer, who in my opinion based his design so closely to that of another website a.k.a freeindex.co.uk.

 

[lex]

Meh cant be bothered with the hassle.

 

[SLF]

well I think streetslocal has identified a gap in the market and he also says there is a market in thre gap, so now that a nice little earner has been disclosed, i'm sure many designers reading but not participating in this thread will be able to target the tradesman in 2009.

 

[360interactive]

I wouldnt choose a designer, who in my opinion based his design so closely to that of another website a.k.a freeindex.co.uk.

That's the one, it just vanished, got me confused.:|:|

In defence of streets, I think the layout of many index sites is almost identical, and if it works, why try and fix it?

I think people need to keep in their minds that different industries have different needs when it comes to websites. If I needed a web designer, would I go with someone who's site looked like a dogs dinner? Probably not.

If I was choosing a local plumber, sparky etc, the look of their site would not make a darn difference. As long as they had credentials and contact details listed, that would do me.

 

[Airia]

Why not use Moonfruit & design/host your own? Seems simple to use & is Free if you can handle Google Adverts

 

[tony84]

try oswd.org open source web design, there are hundreds of free coded templates on there providing you lleave their name in the footer usually.
Pretty fair considering your saving £50.
OR

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=719177#post719177

 

[streetslocal]

Or come on board with us....

 

[Esk247]

streetslocal does the same thing i've done in the past with another business...getting trades people online! they are notoriously difficult you know and to say 'oh well you need to pay £500 minimum for a decent website' will get you laughed out of their work area.

they don't care about css, flash, google ranking, imaging and coding they say 'just give me a website that works because my sons been hassling me all week about we must have a website blah blah' and so thats what us small website designers give them...a small place on the web with perhaps a template design that takes just a few hours to sort out..theres minimal servicing required on our part as the websites dont have an online shop and don't have any log-in system they are just 2 or 3 pages of simple and easy to read html giving information about their company.

if they want to expand they generally know they have got to pay more to get more and they understand this...but trades people and shop keepers in general just want at least something because their son or daughter has been badgering them about it for months.

thats my experience here in Whitby anyway.

 

[Big J]

www.telfordsecurity.co.uk is a site that falls within our offer.

This is not a bad looking site is it?

IMO this website is wrong on SO many levels - first impressions count and I reckon you should be telling your customer this. If they are using their website as it should be, a marketing tool, this could be costing them business not gaining it. Looks amateurish, so will they be? I might not take the chance.

 

[streetslocal]

IMO this website is wrong on SO many levels - first impressions count and I reckon you should be telling your customer this. If they are using their website as it should be, a marketing tool, this could be costing them business not gaining it. Looks amateurish, so will they be? I might not take the chance.

So a website that has trippled there income and gets them many enquires is costing them business?
The search engines postions are costing them business?

So the MR BIG JOHN care to share what business you are in and do you have a website?

 

[zoezoe]

admit what:| its not great, its adequate
I must say though, as a tradesman, I havn';t seen ONE web design firm that has latched on to the fact that theres a demand for reaonably effective cheapo sites and if they have, their message doesnt come through that they're doing this at all. With local seo being easier to get, I'd have thought its business waiting to be had but no one seems to have latched onto this in a defined way anywhere. Telling savvy tradesmen that are out in all weathers working their nuts off that you get a crap website for anything under £500 is the kiss of death imho

maybe I'm talking rubbish here:|

We have - http://www.budgetwebsites.co.uk/ - still not quite £50. but £250+ vat all in for the first year, some bespoke design elements, full support, after that its just the cost of the hosting and you are free to move that if you wish...

Plus we do bells and whistles (just launched http://www.falklands.gov.fk/ ) for when your budget expands...

 

[streetslocal]

We have - http://www.budgetwebsites.co.uk/ - still not quite £50. but £250+ vat all in for the first year, some bespoke design elements, full support, after that its just the cost of the hosting and you are free to move that if you wish...

Plus we do bells and whistles (just launched http://www.falklands.gov.fk/ ) for when your budget expands...

So this site you have in the portfolio would fall within the £250 mark?
www.japlasteringcontractors.co.uk

 

[Matt1959]

We have - http://www.budgetwebsites.co.uk/ - still not quite £50. but £250+ vat all in for the first year, some bespoke design elements, full support, after that its just the cost of the hosting and you are free to move that if you wish...

Plus we do bells and whistles (just launched http://www.falklands.gov.fk/ ) for when your budget expands...

sorry, what I should have made clearer is that I havn't seen anyone targeting tradesmen with value of money websites with tradesmens specific wants in mind (well, on UKBF or anywhere else where it jumps out) Your site is like all the hundreds of others - the same

 

[streetslocal]

If anybody would like to discuss a quote for a website or our packages you can click the link in the signature below and we will assist you with any questions.

Im online during office hours and for UKBF MEMBERS most of the evening.

 

[Big J]

So a website that has trippled there income....

hmmm......

 

[streetslocal]

hmmm......

Big J....
What web design skills do you have?
Have you designed a website at all?

If so please share the website you have built?

Did you build this with a mouse in one hand and scissors in the other hand
As i noticed your a hairdresser

 

[biomed86]

This is such an interesting thread! I have to say, in streetslocal's defense - i dont think there is anything wrong with taking up the offer to do a website for £50. It doesn't necessarily reflect on their usual standard of work, but more that someone has been kind enough to help the OP, who stated they were on a low budget. To me, it's no different for example to people offering free logo designs in the offers section - I got myself a fantastic logo design (for free) from thedesigntailor, and I'm sure many would agree that his work is definitely of a high standard.

If other web designers feel £50 is too little to charge, then thats no problem, don't take up the offer. But there really is no need to jump to the conclusion that the website will be cr*p!

Just what I think...I'm ready to be told off!