Liability for loss of customers goods sent by courier

[Concentrik]

Sole trader, repairing vintage amplifiers. I arrange courier collection from customer (private not business) or send them a QR code so they can take the item to a parcel shop for delivery to me. I fix it and send it back to them by courier. They pay for the carriage but it's subsidised by me - I don't pass on the total cost, as an incentive and a cost of attaining customer.

Some of the items are expensive, like £2,500 but typically £500 or so.

I am concerned about what would happen liability-wise if something was lost or damaged in transit.

I am puzzled - a call to a solicitor via a free legal 30 mins consultation told me that a clear exclusion of liability in T&Cs would be effective. Other service facilities whose T&C's I have researched do include such a clause.

But my reading of the Consumer Rights Act suggests that I would be liable until delivered - effectively all the time the courier has it.

I've also read that despite attempts to exclude liability by couriers and direct users to purchase expensive insurance from them, they are in fact legally liable for any loss or damage.

Should I:

Pay for full insurance myself, both ways and cover the cost

Not insure because any losses would be the responsibility of the courier not me

Tell the client that their equipment is not insured and since they are best placed to judge its value they should look to their household policy for cover

Just put a 'not liable' clause in my T&Cs and hope it negates the Consumer Rights Act ( probably not, I don't think you can T&C your way out of that despite the free legal advice I had)

Thanks!

 

[Gyumri]

As far as I can see the CRA does not apply as you're not selling anything to anyone. However, there are bound to be forum contributors who can advise on the best way to protect yourself. @Frank the Insurance guy for example will be able to advise on the type of cover you need.

I personally would register an LTD as that in itself provides a level of protection so that you cannot be held personally liable should a delivery go wrong. However, that's a personal choice.

 

[japancool]

Goods-in-transit insurance is your friend.

But much depends on who the courier contract is with. Is it with you, or with the customer? And what if the customer claims the goods were damaged due to negligent packing on your part?

 

[Newchodge]

Tell the custimer to arrange delivery to you. That is their responsibility. Arrange return transport, that is your responsibility.

 

[Mark James]

Get Jezza Hawkes to deliver.

 

[WaveJumper]

1, Have your customer arrange delivery and collection
2, Have a chat with @Frank the Insurance guy

 

[Concentrik]

Goods-in-transit insurance is your friend.

But much depends on who the courier contract is with. Is it with you, or with the customer? And what if the customer claims the goods were damaged due to negligent packing on your part?

In each case the contract for movement of goods is between me and the courier company, both ways. It is a principal of my service that the customer needs do as little as possible other than put the equipment in a box!

As to negligence in packing, I routinely photograph items as packed internally and the carton externally so that I have evidence should such a problem occur.

I did have a look at Goods in Transit insurance but as I understood the policy wording it covered only items which are in my care. I can drive them around myself but the moment they are entrusted to a third party cover ceases. I may have rad it wrong and I'd be happy to be corrected, because that type of insurance would then solve the problem!

 

[Concentrik]

1, Have your customer arrange delivery and collection
2, Have a chat with @Frank the Insurance guy

Thank you Wavejumper; I want to continue with the integrated C&D aspect of my service as I feel it's a strong inducement for customers to use my service. Many are unfamiliar with courier paperwork, but I agree that if I'm unconnected with any transport I am not in any way vulnerable.

 

[Concentrik]

Get Jezza Hawkes to deliver.

Jezza flat refuses to travel west of the Bristol Channel, something to do with dragons...

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

Hi @Concentrik

Firstly all Couriers/hauliers in the UK are liable for loss or damage to any deliveries under CMR regulations. However their liability is a set cost of £8.931 per Kilo (Today's rate). This doesn't go far when you have a high value &/or light item being delivered.

You therefore need to look at Goods In Transit Insurance. But there are a couple of issues:

1. Delivery from customer - you have not seen the item, not packed it and have no idea of condition etc. What would happen if the item was lost (or damaged) in transit - how much is it actually worth to replace? In view of these issues, I would suggest that you ensure your T&C's hold you customer responsible for any loss or damage until the package arrives with you.

2. For repaired items - you should be able to get Goods In Transit Insurance for this. If your existing policy will only cover you for goods you personally transport, you will need a stand-alone Transit insurance policy, which can be extended to include goods shipped by couriers.

 

[Concentrik]

Hi @Concentrik

Firstly all Couriers/hauliers in the UK are liable for loss or damage to any deliveries under CMR regulations. However their liability is a set cost of £8.931 per Kilo (Today's rate). This doesn't go far when you have a high value &/or light item being delivered.

You therefore need to look at Goods In Transit Insurance. But there are a couple of issues:

1. Delivery from customer - you have not seen the item, not packed it and have no idea of condition etc. What would happen if the item was lost (or damaged) in transit - how much is it actually worth to replace? In view of these issues, I would suggest that you ensure your T&C's hold you customer responsible for any loss or damage until the package arrives with you.

2. For repaired items - you should be able to get Goods In Transit Insurance for this. If your existing policy will only cover you for goods you personally transport, you will need a stand-alone Transit insurance policy, which can be extended to include goods shipped by couriers.

That's the issue for me, Frank, and the basis of my question.... would it be legal to T&C myself out of liability on the basis you suggest, that because I do not know the condition of the item, nor indeed if the stated item was in fact in the package and not just a brick, no value can be reliably assigned to it and without a value no claim could be made?

I don't know if the forum rules permit recommendations, but do you know of a suitable stand-alne policy?

 

[Ozzy]

I don't know if the forum rules permit recommendations, but do you know of a suitable stand-alone policy?

Forum rules are fine for recommendations so long as the post has context and answers a business question being asked, as explained in What Constitutes Self-Promotion - so it's ok no rules being broken .

 

[James]

Hi @Concentrik

Firstly all Couriers/hauliers in the UK are liable for loss or damage to any deliveries under CMR regulations. However their liability is a set cost of £8.931 per Kilo (Today's rate). This doesn't go far when you have a high value &/or light item being delivered.

You therefore need to look at Goods In Transit Insurance. But there are a couple of issues:

1. Delivery from customer - you have not seen the item, not packed it and have no idea of condition etc. What would happen if the item was lost (or damaged) in transit - how much is it actually worth to replace? In view of these issues, I would suggest that you ensure your T&C's hold you customer responsible for any loss or damage until the package arrives with you.

2. For repaired items - you should be able to get Goods In Transit Insurance for this. If your existing policy will only cover you for goods you personally transport, you will need a stand-alone Transit insurance policy, which can be extended to include goods shipped by couriers.

Just be careful CMR is for Europe, a lot of UK hauliers are under RHA terms £1300 per a ton.

 

[Gyumri]

You are only going to be concerned as @Frank the Insurance guy has said with items you are posting back.

So the customer needs to be able to verify that you've posted it which can be tracked and you need to know that the customer has signed for it.

Then you need to provide for the possibility that the customer has butter fingers and drops the £2,000 amplifier that you've just fixed and calls you to complain that his Max Bygraves "20 Golden Greats" now sounds like two cats trying to sing a pop song.

It up to you how you wish to assign risk for the return journey. Some entities cap their risk simply to the price of the postage regardless of the cost of the item. But that might put off your potential customers who may feel more comfortable in knowing that you have insurance for their peace of mind (up to a defined value).

I would still consider forming an Ltd for added protection against being sued personally.

 

[Concentrik]

You are only going to be concerned as @Frank the Insurance guy has said with items you are posting back.

So the customer needs to be able to verify that you've posted it which can be tracked and you need to know that the customer has signed for it.

Then you need to provide for the possibility that the customer has butter fingers and drops the £2,000 amplifier that you've just fixed and calls you to complain that his Max Bygraves "20 Golden Greats" now sounds like two cats trying to sing a pop song.
It up to you how you wish to assign risk for the return journey. Some entities cap their risk simply to the price of the postage regardless of the cost of the item. But that might put off your potential customers who may feel more comfortable in knowing that you have insurance for their peace of mind (up to a defined value).

I would still consider forming an Ltd for added protection against being sued personally.

Because I want to be on real solid ground here, I feel I need a solid legal basis which sets out the absence of any liability for goods collected for me, by a third party. I can totally see the logic but I can also see Butterfingers claiming his £2k amp was actually worth that when he sent it, and my courier lost it. ( Once he's signed for the return he and Max are on their own)

Some of the T&Cs I have researched do try to obviate any trader liability, but that's my question... Is that legal? Wouldn't the CRA override any such attempt? So is it really up to me how I assign risk for either journey?

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Get GIT for your business or, dependant on your courier, get the enhanced/insured service.

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

would it be legal to T&C myself out of liability on the basis you suggest, that because I do not know the condition of the item, nor indeed if the stated item was in fact in the package and not just a brick, no value can be reliably assigned to it and without a value no claim could be made?

I think you could, but I'm not a lawyer so cannot confirm for definate.

Check your Business Insurance policy - many include a free telephone legal advice service - they should be able to confirm.

I don't know if the forum rules permit recommendations, but do you know of a suitable stand-alne policy?

For your type of equipment and the fact its not "new", you probable need to speak to an Independent Insurance Broker who can speak to a number of different insurers to source a suitable policy.

I am happy to have a look - my contact details below.