China buying advice needed

[mart321]

Hi all, i have been buying supplies for two businesses i am running with my wife, in the UK. She has an etsy store and buys crafting supplies from aliexpress dhgate etc.
I have an online store designing and making items with leds. I source my stock from alibaba. I generally put buying requests out and deal with the quotes i get back. I have never had any issues.


its my understanding that aliexpress, dhgate etc are just middlemen buying stock from the factories, whereas alibaba is direct from the factories.
Sometimes when i buy from alibaba the prices are very cheap but the postage costs are extortionate and make the prices between the different platforms quite similar.

One advantage i have had with aliexpress and DHgate is that they have cost me very little in terms of postage and VAT. The sellers are happy to send multiple packages to avoid me having to pay large VAT charges and the shipping cost is usually very minimal.


For example i have just had a quote for 1000 units of an item from alibaba. The item price is 1/4 of the cost of aliexpress but the cost by sea is $380 or $730, then there will be VAT charges on top of this. This makes the prices comparable.


I have been talking with other similar businesses and it appears i am paying much more than they are for stock. They say that i need a shipping agent or someone who can deal with the factories direct for me to negotiate on prices.


Can anyone that regularly deals with alibaba etc give me some advice as i could really do with bringing my costs down. I feel i am paying far too much for my products.

also what are peoples experiences on buying from alibaba and using buyers and shipping agents?

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

aliexpress, dhgate etc are just middlemen buying stock from the factories, whereas alibaba is direct from the factories

Aliexpress - selling B2C in singles/small volume
Alibaba - B2B for buying in bulk (but not always!).

The sellers are happy to send multiple packages to avoid me having to pay large VAT charges

Be careful - that sounds like tax evasion!

For shipping, what matters is the physical size of the shipments, not value, but the more you ship, the more economical it becomes. Also, if shipping volumes, sea freight will be a fraction of the air cost!

 

[mart321]

Aliexpress - selling B2C in singles/small volume
Alibaba - B2B for buying in bulk (but not always!).


Be careful - that sounds like tax evasion!

For shipping, what matters is the physical size of the shipments, not value, but the more you ship, the more economical it becomes. Also, if shipping volumes, sea freight will be a fraction of the air cost!

With the VAT. I originally just purchased from a seller and that is how they arrived, i wasnt trying to avoid any tax. The items just came packed into individual packages via Royal Mail. I think 30 parcels arrived at my door. I then bought from another seller and they arrived in one large package UPS and i was charged £200 VAT.

Which seller would you continue to do business with.

 

[Newchodge]

With the VAT. I originally just purchased from a seller and that is how they arrived, i wasnt trying to avoid any tax. The items just came packed into individual packages via Royal Mail. I think 30 parcels arrived at my door. I then bought from another seller and they arrived in one large package UPS and i was charged £200 VAT.

Which seller would you continue to do business with.

The one that does not assume that I am a criminal?

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

VAT is your responsibility, not that of your supplier.

BTW, I was more commenting to I dictate being careful what you write on a public forum!

 

[mart321]

VAT is your responsibility, not that of your supplier.

BTW, I was more commenting to I dictate being careful what you write on a public forum!

thanks, yes i understand its my responsibility. I am wanting to buy from Alibaba which i know will be charging VAT on all purchases anyway. I would like to avoid using these unknown middlemen from aliexpress etc and DHgate. I need to understand how negotiating works on this platfrom i think in order to reduce prices. Im assuming you will need to build up some sort of business realtionship. So far i feel like im speaking to bots when i recieve quotes back. English is not very good a lot of the time also, which is suprising if these people work in e-commerce for the factories.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Contact the seller direct via that or another platform.

I have done something similar in the past few weeks, saved a bundle and may have a new string toy now - stock should arrive in the next day or two!

 

[japancool]

Most of the sellers on alibaba are also middlemen.

 

[GraemeL]

I think your dilema has its source in the Universal Postal Union? (Read article iof you want to know more). As soon as a package gets too big to be covered by this union it is longer 'subsidised' and the freight cost is more normal. I suspect that is exactly what is happening to your freight costs.

There is nothing you can do to affect this, if your post falls withing the union it will be cheap. If it doesnt then it will seem expensive.

 

[Directimport]

thanks, yes i understand its my responsibility. I am wanting to buy from Alibaba which i know will be charging VAT on all purchases anyway. I would like to avoid using these unknown middlemen from aliexpress etc and DHgate. I need to understand how negotiating works on this platfrom i think in order to reduce prices. Im assuming you will need to build up some sort of business realtionship. So far i feel like im speaking to bots when i recieve quotes back. English is not very good a lot of the time also, which is suprising if these people work in e-commerce for the factories.

First may I say that you are not buying anything from Alibaba, you are buying from suppliers who advertise on Alibaba. Yes the VAT is your responsibiity and suppliers on Alibaba, DHGate etc., don't charge VAT. In fact they most likely have no clue what VAT means.

When parcels arrive via Royal Mail the Customs clearance process including payment of VAT is handled by Royal Mail, and you have to pay any duty and VAT to them before they will deliver. In practice it is often collected from you when you go to pick up the parcel.

Using Royal Mail simplifies the procedure for you, and you don't risk failing to pay all that is legally required.

Delivery via air couriers works in a similar way, because they handle the clearance process and won't deliver to you until you have paid what is legally due.

I see nothing wrong with taking advantage of what the system allows so......

1. Allow your supplier to send a high value shipment means VAT will definitely be charged, and you must pay Duty and VAT.
2. Ask your supplier to send a smaller value shipment and benefit by the DeMinimus rule and if below £135 you will not be charged duty but you will still be charged VAT For information as helpful l as HM Revenue and Customs can manage to be, see: VAT and Duty on imports

Most of the sellers on alibaba are also middlemen.

Yes but almost all pretend to be manufacturers. If you buy from real manufacturers you can pay less once you learn the ropes. (More later)

 

[Directimport]

This the More later:
There are things you should say, but there are more things you should not say when you make your first contact with suppliers in China.

Lack of response is common when newbies communicate with suppliers on any B2B platform. The reason is simple - they know that the enquiry comes from a newbie and they hate dealing with people who don't know what they are doing. They think a) Another opportunist looking for freebies, or b) This person is going to need too much help.

To help your chances of getting a reply, newbies should follow these rules:

Remember, it is not so much a matter of what to say, as what not to say.

• Don't mention that you are new to the business.
• Don't tell them you are a sole trader.
• Don't offer your business plan like you would to a supplier in the UK or USA.
• Don't ask what is their MOQ. They will tell you soon enough. That is when you could start working on them to supply a lot less.
• Don't offer your tax or business registration details.
• Don't ask for samples early in your communications with them, and don't expect them to be free.
• Don't haggle. Most "experts" will tell you to do so, but there are good reasons why you should not and I teach why you don't need to. This issue is even more critical in the early stages. If you try to talk the price down early on you will suddenly find no more emails arrive.

There are a few things you should say:

• Tell them you are an established importer.
• Tell them that you want to have an inspection service do a quality control inspection.
• Ask them for a copy of their catalog, preferably a printed version.
• Give them your business name. Don't have one? Invent one.
• Identify yourself as Purchasing Manager, rather than proprietor. This allows you to blame your "boss" for insisting on a lower MOQ etc. They will accept that reason.

 

[mart321]

This the More later:
There are things you should say, but there are more things you should not say when you make your first contact with suppliers in China.

Lack of response is common when newbies communicate with suppliers on any B2B platform. The reason is simple - they know that the enquiry comes from a newbie and they hate dealing with people who don't know what they are doing. They think a) Another opportunist looking for freebies, or b) This person is going to need too much help.

To help your chances of getting a reply, newbies should follow these rules:

Remember, it is not so much a matter of what to say, as what not to say.

• Don't mention that you are new to the business.
• Don't tell them you are a sole trader.
• Don't offer your business plan like you would to a supplier in the UK or USA.
• Don't ask what is their MOQ. They will tell you soon enough. That is when you could start working on them to supply a lot less.
• Don't offer your tax or business registration details.
• Don't ask for samples early in your communications with them, and don't expect them to be free.
• Don't haggle. Most "experts" will tell you to do so, but there are good reasons why you should not and I teach why you don't need to. This issue is even more critical in the early stages. If you try to talk the price down early on you will suddenly find no more emails arrive.

There are a few things you should say:

• Tell them you are an established importer.
• Tell them that you want to have an inspection service do a quality control inspection.
• Ask them for a copy of their catalog, preferably a printed version.
• Give them your business name. Don't have one? Invent one.
• Identify yourself as Purchasing Manager, rather than proprietor. This allows you to blame your "boss" for insisting on a lower MOQ etc. They will accept that reason.

Hi, some great tips there. Thanks i will try incorporate some of this into my communications. I've had some quotes back this morning which are probably 1/3 less than prices advertising of Ali express and dhgate but still seem a bit high to me. The shipping is the big one. Is it worthwhile trying to source a "shipping agent" or similar who can assist and bring prices down. Im not 109% on how this works but this is what I have been told several times.

 

[MBE2017]

It’s been a while since I imported, but my main advice conflicts with most. Chinese companies are desperate for decent companies to use them, they place an awful lot of how they treat you based on wanting a long term relationship.

Maybe I have been lucky, but in 25 years of importing I never had any true company treat myself unfairly, but I ensured I was dealing with who I thought I was. The Chinese have a slightly different view to sales than the West, and will collude with agents or even a farm worker if they have an inquiry, pretending to be connected. You need to make calls, check out companies, send emails, check out registration details on the Gov websites.

As stated, they are only too aware half their inquiries are from the latest bedroom based keyboard warriors with grand designs and ridiculous claims of world domination. Be honest, look to make a favourable relationship, not be a one hit wonder.

 

[MOIC]

My tuppence worth . . . . .

If you decide to source from Alibaba, then you really need to devote time and effort into sourcing the right supplier for you.

It may be that you'll need to communicate with 20 or 30 suppliers to find the right one and the process can take 2 to 4 weeks to establish if they are the right fit for you, this is before you request and compare samples, from perhaps a shortlist of 3.

A few pointers:

1. Never request or respond to an RFQ.

2. Due diligence on the company that you're speaking with.

3. Always request samples from at least 3 suppliers to compare quality, components & packaging.

4. When you have identified (what you think) is the right supplier for you, then the fun starts. . . . contract, samples, amendments, pre production samples, payment terms, production timelines, quality control, export documentation, packaging, branding, warranty, faulty items, after sales service, shipping options & costs . . . . . .It's doable, but you need to put time and effort into it, otherwise you'll get a (very) poor supplier.

Alibaba now, is not what Ailbaba was like 10 years ago, it's worse!

 

[Kimiy_LIU@outl]

I come from China. Most sellers on Alibaba are also middlemen. That's true. I'm a freight forwarder from China. I can help you to transport the goods to your country and save unnecessary tariffs. This is very important. The transportation cost does not depend on the value of the goods themselves, but on the size of the goods. The larger the transportation volume is, the more favorable it is. You can send the samples you bought in China to our warehouse in China. We can provide you with warehousing, transportation, or take a video to understand the quality of the products. If you have many samples, you can ask Alibaba merchants to send them to our warehouse in China, and then we will pack them into a package and send them to you, which can save a lot of money.

 

[Directimport]

Alibaba now, is not what Ailbaba was like 10 years ago, it's worse!

I agree completely. Alibaba has gone to great lengths to increase their revenue, and two moves in particular have made sourcing a bit more difficult.

1. Banning from receiving Requests For Quotes (RFQ) any sellers that don't have a Gold Badge. As a result, the worthless Gold Badge is now displayed by thousands of run of the mill sellers. Alibaba's revenue has increased substantially as they sell huge numbers of Gold Badges.
2. Banning sellers from advertising their wares by way of the seller's own website. This makes it more difficult to do due diligence, because it is near impossible to locate a seller by using a Google search.

In passing I would mention that in one year 3680 Gold Suppliers on Alibaba had their Gold badges taken from them because of scams. I suspect that most if not all of them are again Gold Badge vendors, but trading under a new name.

Due diligence is still possible, but requires more effort.

 

[Kimiy_LIU@outl]

我完全同意。阿里巴巴已经竭尽全力增加收入，特别是两项举措使采购变得更加困难。

1. 禁止接收任何没有金牌的卖家的报价请求 （RFQ）。结果，毫无价值的黄金徽章现在被成千上万的磨坊卖家展示。阿里巴巴的收入大幅增加，因为他们出售了大量的金徽章。
2. 禁止卖家通过卖家自己的网站宣传他们的商品。这使得进行尽职调查变得更加困难，因为使用Google搜索几乎不可能找到卖家。

顺便说一句，我会提到，在一年内，阿里巴巴上的3680家金牌供应商因诈骗而被夺走了他们的金牌徽章。我怀疑他们中的大多数（如果不是全部）都是金徽章供应商，但以新名称进行交易。

尽职调查仍然是可能的，但需要更多的努力。

You should know that it costs 2.3 dollars to buy a cup on Alibaba, but it only costs 0.3 dollars on other platforms. So now many people do not choose to buy products on Alibaba. They will find a Chinese person to help them buy, so they can get a lower price

 

[The Byre]

Can anyone that regularly deals with alibaba etc give me some advice as i could really do with bringing my costs down. I feel i am paying far too much for my products.

Bringing costs down? Start by not buying via Alibaba! That's like saying "I source my stock from Amazon and eBay."

Alibaba today is yet another retail outlet.

alibaba is direct from the factories

Hardly! As stated above - those are dealers and middlemen.

There are platforms on which genuine factories advertise. I would start with Made-In-China - though there are middlemen in between that lot as well. Other advertising platforms for Chinese manufacturers are available, but I would start with that one!

But if you REALLY want to reduce costs, scale up your operation and buy in bulk from a factory. You will know pretty quickly who is and is not a genuine factory from the T&C and from the prices quoted and numbers! Do the sample request thing and pick one.

Then you go to a shipping agent who can deal with your order on a door-to-door basis, can provide references and has a good track record in every aspect of door-to-door shipping. Yes! They cost money - but a container stuck in Felixstow because form XYZ has not been filled in correctly costs a whole lot more!

 

[PaxRomana180]

Hi all, i have been buying supplies for two businesses i am running with my wife, in the UK. She has an etsy store and buys crafting supplies from aliexpress dhgate etc.
I have an online store designing and making items with leds. I source my stock from alibaba. I generally put buying requests out and deal with the quotes i get back. I have never had any issues.


its my understanding that aliexpress, dhgate etc are just middlemen buying stock from the factories, whereas alibaba is direct from the factories.
Sometimes when i buy from alibaba the prices are very cheap but the postage costs are extortionate and make the prices between the different platforms quite similar.

One advantage i have had with aliexpress and DHgate is that they have cost me very little in terms of postage and VAT. The sellers are happy to send multiple packages to avoid me having to pay large VAT charges and the shipping cost is usually very minimal.


For example i have just had a quote for 1000 units of an item from alibaba. The item price is 1/4 of the cost of aliexpress but the cost by sea is $380 or $730, then there will be VAT charges on top of this. This makes the prices comparable.


I have been talking with other similar businesses and it appears i am paying much more than they are for stock. They say that i need a shipping agent or someone who can deal with the factories direct for me to negotiate on prices.


Can anyone that regularly deals with alibaba etc give me some advice as i could really do with bringing my costs down. I feel i am paying far too much for my products.

also what are peoples experiences on buying from alibaba and using buyers and shipping agents?

Have you tried talking to the supplier directly? Obviously this increases your risk, but if you get them to sign a Manufacturing Agreement (lots of templates online) then this could greatly reduce your costs.

 

[lilycheng222]

bulk need purchase from alibaba,because factory many on here. aliexpress is do retail .on price side,alibaba have advantage.

if one time need purchase many different supplier,I think just Find one trysted chinese agent is better.because can hlep you purchase all product and also can help you supervision and check shipping company .

save more money and time.

 

[Speed Ma]

we are a hometextile company in china. if anyone need shower curtain, tablecloth,maybe we are a good supplier

 

[genius]

I'm from China. Most of the sellers of Alibaba are also middlemen, and I am also one of them. I suggest that you spend more time to choose an appropriate middleman in the early stage, because the appropriate middleman can help you buy all products, and also help you to supervise and check the transportation company. In the long-term cooperation will also help you to strive for more benefits, but also help you to save time.

 

[boogieboa]

I come from China. Most sellers on Alibaba are also middlemen. That's true. I'm a freight forwarder from China. I can help you to transport the goods to your country and save unnecessary tariffs. This is very important. The transportation cost does not depend on the value of the goods themselves, but on the size of the goods. The larger the transportation volume is, the more favorable it is. You can send the samples you bought in China to our warehouse in China. We can provide you with warehousing, transportation, or take a video to understand the quality of the products. If you have many samples, you can ask Alibaba merchants to send them to our warehouse in China, and then we will pack them into a package and send them to you, which can save a lot of money.

I want to source items from China and need a reliable freight forwarder. But some alternatives to Alibaba for beauty products would be useful. Can you help?

 

[genius]

I want to source items from China and need a reliable freight forwarder. But some alternatives to Alibaba for beauty products would be useful. Can you help?

Of course, what kind of beauty products do you need? How can I help you? I can provide you with a variety of options. Can I contact you with whatsapp?

 

[tong Wins]

It’s been a while since I imported, but my main advice conflicts with most. Chinese companies are desperate for decent companies to use them, they place an awful lot of how they treat you based on wanting a long term relationship.

Maybe I have been lucky, but in 25 years of importing I never had any true company treat myself unfairly, but I ensured I was dealing with who I thought I was. The Chinese have a slightly different view to sales than the West, and will collude with agents or even a farm worker if they have an inquiry, pretending to be connected. You need to make calls, check out companies, send emails, check out registration details on the Gov websites.

As stated, they are only too aware half their inquiries are from the latest bedroom based keyboard warriors with grand designs and ridiculous claims of world domination. Be honest, look to make a favourable relationship, not be a one hit wonder.

It’s been a while since I imported, but my main advice conflicts with most. Chinese companies are desperate for decent companies to use them, they place an awful lot of how they treat you based on wanting a long term relationship.

Maybe I have been lucky, but in 25 years of importing I never had any true company treat myself unfairly, but I ensured I was dealing with who I thought I was. The Chinese have a slightly different view to sales than the West, and will collude with agents or even a farm worker if they have an inquiry, pretending to be connected. You need to make calls, check out companies, send emails, check out registration details on the Gov websites.

As stated, they are only too aware half their inquiries are from the latest bedroom based keyboard warriors with grand designs and ridiculous claims of world domination. Be honest, look to make a favourable relationship, not be a one hit wonder.

Yes, you're right. Chinese factories are eager to connect with overseas buyers who have genuine demand, hoping to build trustworthy and stable business partnerships. The challenge right now is that many factory owners aren't proficient in English, which makes it difficult to establish effective communication.

 

[tong Wins]

Yes, you're right. Chinese factories are eager to connect with overseas buyers who have genuine demand, hoping to build trustworthy and stable business partnerships. The challenge right now is that many factory owners aren't proficient in English, which makes it difficult to establish effective communication.

I'll put together a separate China sourcing guide for everyone's reference.

 

[tong Wins]

My tuppence worth . . . . .

If you decide to source from Alibaba, then you really need to devote time and effort into sourcing the right supplier for you.

It may be that you'll need to communicate with 20 or 30 suppliers to find the right one and the process can take 2 to 4 weeks to establish if they are the right fit for you, this is before you request and compare samples, from perhaps a shortlist of 3.

A few pointers:

1. Never request or respond to an RFQ.

2. Due diligence on the company that you're speaking with.

3. Always request samples from at least 3 suppliers to compare quality, components & packaging.

4. When you have identified (what you think) is the right supplier for you, then the fun starts. . . . contract, samples, amendments, pre production samples, payment terms, production timelines, quality control, export documentation, packaging, branding, warranty, faulty items, after sales service, shipping options & costs . . . . . .It's doable, but you need to put time and effort into it, otherwise you'll get a (very) poor supplier.

Alibaba now, is not what Ailbaba was like 10 years ago, it's worse!

That's exactly right. A large number of trading companies are spending hefty sums duplicating storefronts, all to get their products in front of your eyes. Meanwhile, the actual factories rarely have the bandwidth to reach out and deal with you directly.