Buying a council house - Right2buy/Housing discount

[NewTime]

Firstly, apologies if I shouldn't be posting this here, but I am unable to think of a forum I am using that could help me more.

My dad is 77 and has lived in his council (now housing association) home for 31 years. He is currently recovering from lung cancer and has been obsessed with the fact he believed he is dying. But is currently doing fine. He has 4 children (1 of them is being left out financially) and discussion between him and the other 3 are indifferent. He tells me it is too late in life to do it, whilst he tells other it is something he wants to do.

The house is worth in the region of £100k and the discount he would get is £62k I believe. My Dad doesn't have the money available to fund that gap and if we was to pursue it, then I am not sure how that can happen. He does however have some money. So how do we fund the gap? As we could clearly like to take advantage of the discount.

I have googled allsorts and Google isn't being my friend. Google is even saying that my Dad's housing benefit could pay the mortgage and I do not believe that to be true. I also am aware that Boris made a new policy on buying your own house, but when I read it back, it makes no sense.

I have also tried to total if the 3 kids can string together the money and I believe that to be a no too.

So, does anyone have any experience? Can my Dad get a mortgage at 77??

Thanks in advance.

 

[MBE2017]

Highly unlikely due to his age, each company has its own rules, based on affordability. Do any of your family currently live him?

 

[NewTime]

Highly unlikely due to his age, each company has its own rules, based on affordability. Do any of your family currently live him?

One member does currently live with him.

I have been googling and it does say banks like the nottingham over mortgages at that age, but must be paid by the time he's 85.

 

[WaveJumper]

Your best bet is probably to find a local independent mortgage broker as they will have a full range of product knowledge and what avenues maybe open to you

 

[MBE2017]

One member does currently live with him.

I have been googling and it does say banks like the nottingham over mortgages at that age, but must be paid by the time he's 85.

It would all come down to affordability.

You might have more luck combining the family member living with him with, along with your father. if any other family members have lived with him within the last year I think they can go on the application as well from memory, regarding council house right to buy.

Find a good broker who can be of more help, its not my industry.

 

[Stedurham]

you should check with council seems like a big discount in my area in north east they have stopped this and its a smaller discount than years ago

 

[NewTime]

you should check with council seems like a big discount in my area in north east they have stopped this and its a smaller discount than years ago

I have checked with the calculators available and it seems that it is £61,000 out of £100k is available, my Dad has been in that property for 31 years.

 

[UKSBD]

His age, the security and fact he has a council house are probably worth far more than the savings to someone in his situation.

He would probably spend more on a £45k mortgage than what he is paying in rent, without having the extra security.

 

[Newchodge]

His age, the security and fact he has a council house are probably worth far more than the savings to someone in his situation.

He would probably spend more on a £45k mortgage than what he is paying in rent, without having the extra security.

But his heirs won't own the house. Please keep up!

 

[UKSBD]

But his heirs won't own the house. Please keep up!

You think they are more interested in the house than the security and comfort of their father?

 

[NewTime]

My Dad has always been a saver and if he could buy the house for us, he would. But the gap would take all his money.

This isn't about us having the house, he could live for many years more and do what he wants with it. But if such a discount is available, then surely you'd want to take advantage of it?

 

[NewTime]

You think they are more interested in the house than the security and comfort of their father?

Like I say, my Dad would love to buy the house for us, knowing his age. But at the same time, we are having endless problems with our housing association as it is.

I think he'd love not to deal with the housing assocation.

 

[WaveJumper]

Interesting full details of the scheme here they even have a help and advice section including finance, could be worth following up they maybe able to point you in the right direction

Right to Buy: buying your council home

Your right to buy your council home - including how to apply, who is eligible, discounts available and where to get help and advice.

www.gov.uk

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Do you trust the other family members. If you lent him the money and all agreed to pay an equal share of the mortgage, he'd be living rent free for the rest of his days, what little money he has would stretch further or last longer and you'd all have an appreciating asset further down the line.

Simply put, you invest £45k and get £100k back in return.

 

[Financial-Modeller]

Housing associations and councils are supposed to scrutinise source of funds for sudden purchases of homes close to end of life, to avoid unscrupulous relatives looking to profit from these arrangements, but whether they have the inclination or competence to do so is unclear.

Obviously that is not the case here as you say:

...This isn't about us having the house...

Yet your opening point is not that he wants to buy it, but:

...we could clearly like to take advantage of the discount...

Leaving aside the obvious moral discussion of whether it is right for you to encourage the discounted purchase of an asset paid for by the taxpayer with inheritance being the main driver, do also consider the possibilities for disharmony among your siblings when your father has passed and proceeds of his estate are being divided among you.

It could create ill-feeling that would be avoided by him continuing to live as he has done for 31 years, and dividing any savings etc when the time comes.

 

[MBE2017]

I won’t criticise a choice many have made in the past. Half the threads on this forum recently have been about greedy landlords, here you have a tenant and family considering making some money from a long standing rental and it now becomes a moral choice about taking advantage.

Get the money if you can OP, literally anyone else would in your situation. The source of funding the purchase will crop up, hence my question of if anyone was living with him.

 

[NewTime]

Housing associations and councils are supposed to scrutinise source of funds for sudden purchases of homes close to end of life, to avoid unscrupulous relatives looking to profit from these arrangements, but whether they have the inclination or competence to do so is unclear.

Obviously that is not the case here as you say:



Yet your opening point is not that he wants to buy it, but:



Leaving aside the obvious moral discussion of whether it is right for you to encourage the discounted purchase of an asset paid for by the taxpayer with inheritance being the main driver, do also consider the possibilities for disharmony among your siblings when your father has passed and proceeds of his estate are being divided among you.

It could create ill-feeling that would be avoided by him continuing to live as he has done for 31 years, and dividing any savings etc when the time comes.

I am understanding of how people may see this. But as most parents would they would want to leave behind as much as they could. It is a discussion we are having and I am pretty sure that most families would consider this. I want my father on this planet for as long as possible, he is is not an 'asset'.

However, the council/HA have had more money from this than the house is worth. Why shouldn't my father benefit?

 

[NewTime]

I won’t criticise a choice many have made in the past. Half the threads on this forum recently have been about greedy landlords, here you have a tenant and family considering making some money from a long standing rental and it now becomes a moral choice about taking advantage.

Get the money if you can OP, literally anyone else would in your situation. The source of funding the purchase will crop up, hence my question of if anyone was living with him.

Thank you for this post.

I think we have got to the point of where we might try and forget the mortgage and instead try and get the money together.

 

[Newchodge]

I am understanding of how people may see this. But as most parents would they would want to leave behind as much as they could. It is a discussion we are having and I am pretty sure that most families would consider this. I want my father on this planet for as long as possible, he is is not an 'asset'.

However, the council/HA have had more money from this than the house is worth. Why shouldn't my father benefit?

My private landlord has had more rent from me than the house is worth. Why can't I benefit?

 

[MBE2017]

My private landlord has had more rent from me than the house is worth. Why can't I benefit?

You have, you have lived there. You don’t strike me as a fool, why would you overpay the rent?

 

[Newchodge]

You have, you have lived there. You don’t strike me as a fool, why would you overpay the rent?

My comment was in response to the OP's immediate previous comment. I don't overpay the rent, I pay the rent that is due.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Is the person who lives there one of the three with a financial interest? or the one that sounds disinherited

Does the one who lives there have the right to take over the lease when your father has passed on or moved to care home, Check with council

Presumably if the one that stayed can take over the lease then there is no financial reward for the others in probate

 

[kulture]

Is the person who lives there one of the three with a financial interest? or the one that sounds disinherited

Does the one who lives there have the right to take over the lease when your father has passed on or moved to care home, Check with council

Presumably if the one that stayed can take over the lease then there is no financial reward for the others in probate

That’s the whole point I suspect. The person living in the council house typically gets to continue living there after the Father’s death. That person will also get the right to buy and thus the significant discount. The rest of the family do not . So the person living there gets the huge discount and thus the cheap property. The rest get nothing.

On the other hand, the person living there is no doubt looking after the Father.

 

[WaveJumper]

At the moment the father would be entitled to the full discount on purchase due to his time there, if he passed the discount may be reduced due to the son's length of residency. The calc's are on the gov website

 

[MBE2017]

My comment was in response to the OP's immediate previous comment. I don't overpay the rent, I pay the rent that is due.

Point being you may have paid more rent than the house is worth in your opinion, but in reality you have paid the market rate.

Your Landlords mortgage(if he has one) will go up and down according to interest rates, the property value will go up and down according to market conditions. Other costs will have increased over the years.

A private rental offers many advantages over buying for some, if you want the capital gains from owning a property then buy one. Right to buy has been a very popular political decision and NO political party intends reversing it.

 

[ethical PR]

You think they are more interested in the house than the security and comfort of their father?

Sounds like it

 

[ethical PR]

If the children who will benefit from the asset want your father to buy his council property so you can benefit from having a highly discounted property, then you should pay for the cost of him buying his council house.

If your family member who lives with your father is on the tenancy agreement then they should be able to jointly buy the property. If not they have no rights to the property.

Morally I think it's wrong. Social housing is there for those on low income. It's not there to be used by family members to get a cheap house.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Morally I think it's wrong. Social housing is there for those on low income. It's not there to be used by family members to get a cheap house.

The Horse has bolted on that one. I know several people who have 'helped out' ageing parents with their mortgages in the latter part of their lives for exactly that reason, albeit with the claim that the parents can enjoy stress free, rent free final years, which in itself is true.

 

[ethical PR]

The Horse has bolted on that one. I know several people who have 'helped out' ageing parents with their mortgages in the latter part of their lives for exactly that reason, albeit with the claim that the parents can enjoy stress free, rent free final years, which in itself is true.

Yes of course I know people who have done that too. It doesn't make it right. The reality is the Right to Buy scheme has taken millions of social housing accommodation away from those most in housing need. We have a massive housing crisis in this country, much of which is down to this happening.

Nor would I agree it gives the parents a stress free home. They then become responsible for all the costs associated with repairs, boilers etc.

The people it most benefits are the children of the ageing parent who get a highly discounted property who more than likely wouldn't be eligible for social housing in their own right.

 

[NewTime]

I am just struggling to understand the responses here.

It’s not our fault that you can’t buy your landlords home with a discount and it’s not our fault we are being let down by our Housing association.

For 31 years, between them the council have taken the rent without one missed payment. Therefore over £100k.

My Dad wants to look after his kids and the house has a discount, so what? Anyone in the same situation would do the same if they could.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Yes of course I know people who have done that too. It doesn't make it right. The reality is the Right to Buy scheme has taken millions of social housing accommodation away from those most in housing need. We have a massive housing crisis in this country, much of which is down to this happening.

Nor would I agree it gives the parents a stress free home. They then become responsible for all the costs associated with repairs, boilers etc.

The people it most benefits are the children of the ageing parent who get a highly discounted property who more than likely wouldn't be eligible for social housing in their own right.

Those who exercised the right to buy have realised a significant increase in wealth which they can pass sown to their offspring. Whether it's promoted the massive rise in house prices is a debate for another day, but those who couldn't or haven't, in the case of the OP's father, taken the opportunity to buy have little to pass down.

In one instance the 4 children helped their parents who were both in the early stages of retirement, to buy their home. The parents had sufficient savings to cover general upkeep, the children who all had well paid jobs were there to provide a safety net. The father lived for another 25 years.

 

[NewTime]

Those who exercised the right to buy have realised a significant increase in wealth which they can pass sown to their offspring. Whether it's promoted the massive rise in house prices is a debate for another day, but those who couldn't or haven't, in the case of the OP's father, taken the opportunity to buy have little to pass down.

In one instance the 4 children helped their parents who were both in the early stages of retirement, to buy their home. The parents had sufficient savings to cover general upkeep, the children who all had well paid jobs were there to provide a safety net. The father lived for another 25 years.

Just to correct you, my father has quite a lot to “pass down”. But it may seem unlikely to be enough between the gap. That gdp could be £60k it may seem.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Just to correct you, my father has quite a lot to “pass down”. But it may seem unlikely to be enough between the gap. That gdp could be £60k it may seem.

Apologies, I live down south in an area where a typical ex Council family home is selling for in excess of £400k. All subjective but it's a sum that can give a nice foot up to a couple of offspring.

 

[simon field]

Morally I think it's wrong. Social housing is there for those on low income. It's not there to be used by family members to get a cheap house.

Why not? What if the family members want to go on a lower income?

 

[IanSuth]

Why not? What if the family members want to go on a lower income?

Playing Devils advocate "then they should go on the waiting list and be assessed like everyone else so those in most need get the help first"

As an aside a lot will depend who was the original tenant as most council tenancies' can only be passed on once, a wife can pass to husband or a father to son but not wife to husband to son

I remember a case where a pair of sisters had lived in a house supporting the mentally impaired son of one of them, the elder sister who had taken over the tenancy from their parents then died, leaving her son and younger sister - they were then turfed out under that rule

 

[BustersDogs]

I had a neighbour pass away, and her daughter just spent 2 years trying to defraud the council out of her mother's council house. She didn't live there with her mother, but claimed she did. She finally got it when she had a baby. The things people will do to get a council house in order to get hold of that discount is just crazy. It really needs to be looked at.
I bought my council house, but still live in it, and I only bought it as I had a morbid complainer living next to me who made the lives of at least 3 people she lived next to extremely miserable. I keep thinking I'd like to sell it back to the council now please (she passed away last month after over 20 years) and go back to renting.

 

[IanSuth]

As I have said before there need to be more schemes like my mother took advantage of 20 yrs ago

Her council did a deal with developers that they leave a field at the end of the development (only screened from the roundabout on a busy dual carriageway by a thick hedge) - that field was then offered for self build. The council ran a process where those in council houses could apply to purchase a plot with the discount they were due on their existing council house being used as a discount for the land instead.

Basically all who got on it were involved in the trades in one way or another or had a useful skill for the project (my mothers husband at the time was a roofer/brickie, my mother had done timesheets for a manufacturing firm, my brother became a chippie during the build).

The deal was you had to agree to pay back up to full market value if you sold within 5 years - nobody actually sold within 10 as all were so happy at living in a house they had built themselves (and therefore the quality craftmanship used), the council got 20 homes free they could rehouse people in, the developer got to meet their "affordable homes" quota without spending a penny on building just gifting a field that was the least desirable bit of their holding

 

[NewTime]

I had a neighbour pass away, and her daughter just spent 2 years trying to defraud the council out of her mother's council house. She didn't live there with her mother, but claimed she did. She finally got it when she had a baby. The things people will do to get a council house in order to get hold of that discount is just crazy. It really needs to be looked at.
I bought my council house, but still live in it, and I only bought it as I had a morbid complainer living next to me who made the lives of at least 3 people she lived next to extremely miserable. I keep thinking I'd like to sell it back to the council now please (she passed away last month after over 20 years) and go back to renting.

I am struggling to understand this post?

95% of potential buyers are just wanting to buy the house to own their own house and are genuine people. If someone offered you a discount, would you take it? Of course we ALL would.

 

[Newchodge]

I am struggling to understand this post?

95% of potential buyers are just wanting to buy the house to own their own house and are genuine people. If someone offered you a discount, would you take it? Of course we ALL would.

I would love to buy a house with a disount. Committing fraud to do so is perhaps not a good look.

 

[Financial-Modeller]

@NewTime you seem to conveniently think that people should be able to enjoy security of tenure, with somebody else paying for maintenance, upkeep, repairs etc in exchange for a subsidised rent, and also benefit from any price growth / equity in the home they live in, without risking a deposit, and exposure to interest rates etc.

On that basis, when my boiler needs replacing, will you pay for it?