What do you want from Boris Johnson's successor?

[marklew]

Ditch Net Zero (get fracking).
Deal with illegal migration.
Make NI for NHS optional. I'd rather pay for private healthcare.

What happens when you break an arm, are in a car accident, need to see a doctor to get a referral for private?

Private covers none of this. Are you willing to pay for this at cost if required?

What happens if you get cancer, lose/no longer can perform your job or run your business and have to close it, have no money and can't afford private care any more/lose company insurance. Do you want the American model and sell your house and go bankrupt to pay for your care.

As others have pointed out, I believe there to be a lot of waste in government, that should be the focus, but I can't see the benefit for the majority of moving to an American based system.

 

[IanSuth]

What happens when you break an arm, are in a car accident, need to see a doctor to get a referral for private?

Private covers none of this. Are you willing to pay for this at cost if required?

What happens if you get cancer, lose/no longer can perform your job or run your business and have to close it, have no money and can't afford private care any more/lose company insurance. Do you want the American model and sell your house and go bankrupt to pay for your care.

As others have pointed out, I believe there to be a lot of waste in government, that should be the focus, but I can't see the benefit for the majority of moving to an American based system.

I would agree, the US model works well for those that are mainly healthy, have a large amount fo money and are in stable work. Remove any one of those and it all goes to pot.

Have a look of the stories about US diabetics who have lost jobs and then become destitute due to the cost of insulin !

 

[Elliott Coleman]

What happens when you break an arm, are in a car accident, need to see a doctor to get a referral for private?

Private covers none of this. Are you willing to pay for this at cost if required?

What happens if you get cancer, lose/no longer can perform your job or run your business and have to close it, have no money and can't afford private care any more/lose company insurance. Do you want the American model and sell your house and go bankrupt to pay for your care.

As others have pointed out, I believe there to be a lot of waste in government, that should be the focus, but I can't see the benefit for the majority of moving to an American based system.

Having lived in SA most of my life where medical insurance is required (although public hospitals are available), yes, I would rather have healthcare that is readily available when it's required.

You asked "What happens when you break an arm, are in a car accident, need to see a doctor to get a referral for private?"
I'll tell you what happens, you go to A&E, wait around for 12 hours + in the hope that you might see a doctor, eventually you give up, go home and call your GP the next morning but you're out of luck because you can only call at 9am but by the time you get through all the appointments are gone, so you return to A&E where your start another 12 hour wait.

My wife has just waited 4 years for an operation. Finally she got the call and had the op. A few days after leaving hospital, had complications so I rushed her to A&E. She was doubled up in pain but we were told at least a 7 hour wait. Nobody came out to assess the situation, no offer of a bed to lay on. If you really think the NHS is so great, I'd love to know what it is you smoke.

Not sure why you call it an American based system either. Lots of countries work on a medical insurance model.

 

[marklew]

Having lived in SA most of my life where medical insurance is required (although public hospitals are available), yes, I would rather have healthcare that is readily available when it's required.

You asked "What happens when you break an arm, are in a car accident, need to see a doctor to get a referral for private?"
I'll tell you what happens, you go to A&E, wait around for 12 hours + in the hope that you might see a doctor, eventually you give up, go home and call your GP the next morning but you're out of luck because you can only call at 9am but by the time you get through all the appointments are gone, so you return to A&E where your start another 12 hour wait.

My wife has just waited 4 years for an operation. Finally she got the call and had the op. A few days after leaving hospital, had complications so I rushed her to A&E. She was doubled up in pain but we were told at least a 7 hour wait. Nobody came out to assess the situation, no offer of a bed to lay on. If you really think the NHS is so great, I'd love to know what it is you smoke.

Not sure why you call it an American based system either. Lots of countries work on a medical insurance model.

But in the above scenario you have the option to go private, that you state you are willing to do, but didn't?

 

[Elliott Coleman]

But in the above scenario you have the option to go private, that you state you are willing to do, but didn't?

I said I would rather be able to opt out of NI (or a portion of it as we still have to pay for the oik that refuse to work and hotels for migrants) and pay for private medical.

Yes, I could go private now but why should I pay for both?

 

[japancool]

I said I would rather be able to opt out of NI (or a portion of it as we still have to pay for the oik that refuse to work and hotels for migrants) and pay for private medical.

Yes, I could go private now but why should I pay for both?

Because, unlike in SA or the US, this is a country that cares about the people who cannot afford private health insurance. It's called compassion.

 

[Elliott Coleman]

Because, unlike in SA or the US, this is a country that cares about the people who cannot afford private health insurance. It's called compassion.

What? by having a healthcare system that nobody can use? Can't get appointments with a GP, can't see a doctor at A&E for hours despite "Emergency" being in the name, Virtually impossible to get a dentist. This is what you call compassion?

Did I say anywhere, in any of my posts that we should not have a state funded health system. South Africa have state hospitals and for those that can't afford medial insurance you can use these facilities. However, like the NHS they are poorly run, barely maintained and so most people have medical insurance because it just works better.

I'll say this just once more. I would like to be able the OPT OUT of NI for the NHS and pay into a private medical insurance instead. Somewhere where I and my family can get treatment as and when we need it. Somewhere where you are treated like a patient and not an inconvenience.

 

[marklew]

What? by having a healthcare system that nobody can use? Can't get appointments with a GP, can't see a doctor at A&E for hours despite "Emergency" being in the name, Virtually impossible to get a dentist. This is what you call compassion?

Did I say anywhere, in any of my posts that we should not have a state funded health system. South Africa have state hospitals and for those that can't afford medial insurance you can use these facilities. However, like the NHS they are poorly run, barely maintained and so most people have medical insurance because it just works better.

I'll say this just once more. I would like to be able the OPT OUT of NI for the NHS and pay into a private medical insurance instead. Somewhere where I and my family can get treatment as and when we need it. Somewhere where you are treated like a patient and not an inconvenience.

Even in this example you can't 'opt out' as the state funded hospitals (where you believe if you are poor you should be entitled to a lower quality of healthcare) still need funding from the public purse, i.e. whether it be NI, or tax by another name, you would be paying for it

 

[Elliott Coleman]

Even in this example you can't 'opt out' as the state funded hospitals (where you believe if you are poor you should be entitled to a lower quality of healthcare) still need funding from the public purse, i.e. whether it be NI, or tax by another name, you would be paying for it

We already pay tax, NI is just another tax on top of our taxes but in the guise of paying for the NHS, benefits etc.

We never paid additional tax for state hospitals in SA and with less people using the service it would cost less to run and not be overwhelmed all the time.

Anyway it was just what I want to see. It's an idea. At the end of the day if nobody comes up with ideas and we change nothing, then the NHS will remains as shit as it is forever.

 

[japancool]

What? by having a healthcare system that nobody can use?

Dunno about your area. Works just fine in mine. Last time I went to A&E I got seen in 20 mins. Last time I needed an operation, I got it in 2 weeks.

I've never had an issue with the hospitals in my area, and I've had two major operations in the last 4 years, and a few minor ones, as well as life-saving treatment.

You want $600 insulin, epipens and asthma inhalers? Bully to you.

 

[Elliott Coleman]

Dunno about your area. Works just fine in mine. Last time I went to A&E I got seen in 20 mins. Last time I needed an operation, I got it in 2 weeks.

I've never had an issue with the hospitals in my area, and I've had two major operations in the last 4 years, and a few minor ones, as well as life-saving treatment.

You want $600 insulin, epipens and asthma inhalers? Bully to you.

You got seen in 20 minutes and got an operation in 2 weeks. Bully for you.

It shouldn't be a postcode lottery.

 

[japancool]

You got seen in 20 minutes and got an operation in 2 weeks. Bully for you.

It shouldn't be a postcode lottery.

And it shouldn't be predicated on wealth and income. Or is good quality healthcare just for the rich?

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

We are very sceptical about Private Healthcare in our house.
Our daughter was rushed to A&E where she was seen quickly, X-rayed, diagnosed as having a blockage in one Kidney, given some medication and lined up to return for a CAT scan which she organised via her private medical insurance to avoid any delays.

The consultant at the private facility had not seen the original X-ray, had not seen the CAT scan not received any notes from A&E, nor spoken to our daughter directly, yet booked her in for a very invasive operation (I believe to fit a stent) that is not without potential problems.
She cancelled the procedure the evening prior after the consultants secretary confirmed that no scans etc., had been received but that the operation was still booked to go ahead.
We can think of no other reason than to make a few $$$$$$$$$

PS: The medicine originally prescribed sorted the problem and she was given a clean bill of health a couple of months later.

 

[IanSuth]

You make 1 big mistake

NI is not a Hypothecated tax - as in the money from NI is not ringfenced for the NHS, privatising the NHS would not get you a 0 NI rate, plus all the issues you mention are due to underfunding (or wrong funding) of the NHS not the fact it exists.

When the gov puts up NI one of the biggest employers in the country is hit hardest, and who are they..... the NHS !

21-22 projected NI contribution total to exchequer £157bn NHS total budget 21-22 £136bn (and that is with covid and includes all the things like dentists, free eye/hearing tests for those that are qualify, medical part of elderly care etc etc)

I do not disagree some of the NHS working practices are inefficient and waste £ but a lot of that in my mind is because different governments keep fiddling. The "internal market" in the NHS is a waste of resources as it means they spend time competing with each other (and that costs money) where no real competition exists. NHS professionals is a good idea, an NHS owned agency dealing with bank staff as if it were an external recruitment agency and thus keeping the £ internal.

You should instead be saying "how much money would need to be spent to ensure front line triage/treatment was efficient & effective, where else in the organisation could that money be saved from and if it can't how much would the budge need to go up ?

How much do you actually pay in NI each year now take 85% of that (136bn/157bn) what level of private insurance could you afford with that (to cover dental as well) - how much more would the level of cover you want cost as a multiplier ?

 

[IanSuth]

You make 1 big mistake

NI is not a Hypothecated tax - as in the money from NI is not ringfenced for the NHS, privatising the NHS would not get you a 0 NI rate, plus all the issues you mention are due to underfunding (or wrong funding) of the NHS not the fact it exists.

When the gov puts up NI one of the biggest employers in the country is hit hardest, and who are they..... the NHS !

21-22 projected NI contribution total to exchequer £157bn NHS total budget 21-22 £136bn (and that is with covid and includes all the things like dentists, free eye/hearing tests for those that are qualify, medical part of elderly care etc etc)

I do not disagree some of the NHS working practices are inefficient and waste £ but a lot of that in my mind is because different governments keep fiddling. The "internal market" in the NHS is a waste of resources as it means they spend time competing with each other (and that costs money) where no real competition exists. NHS professionals is a good idea, an NHS owned agency dealing with bank staff as if it were an external recruitment agency and thus keeping the £ internal.

You should instead be saying "how much money would need to be spent to ensure front line triage/treatment was efficient & effective, where else in the organisation could that money be saved from and if it can't how much would the budge need to go up ?

How much do you actually pay in NI each year now take 85% of that (136bn/157bn) what level of private insurance could you afford with that (to cover dental as well) - how much more would the level of cover you want cost as a multiplier ?

Oh and another thing, my daughters bursary for doing an Physiotherapy BSc is paid from the NHS budget, that is 5k per student per year for all nursing and allied professions students. 35k students according to the government so that is £175m per year.

Personally I would change the entire student funding model for medical professionals, you take out the loans instead of getting that bursary but they are written off after 10 years of NHS work. That way no reason to inflate NHS salaries to allow the staff to pay back their loans to the government (it is just the same money going in and out)

 

[DontAsk]

I cannot fault the treatment I received recently for prostate cancer. It would have cost infinitely more to pay for private treatment and the outcome would have been no different.

 

[simon field]

I cannot fault the treatment I received recently for prostate cancer. It would have cost infinitely more to pay for private treatment and the outcome would have been no different.

Would it? How much money have you paid into the nhs?

You don’t know, do you.

 

[IanSuth]

Would it? How much money have you paid into the nhs?

You don’t know, do you.

Well take 85% of you ni payments as a good starting point, but taking into account the things the NHS budget covers that you would still want I would say maybe 50% of it

 

[NickGrogan]

The NHS is great sometimes.

But that doesn't mean it can't be improved.

Doctors are still faxing information to pharmacies and hospitals.

Welsh NHS still buying fax machines to use in its hospitals

The NHS in England has not been allowed to buy fax machines since January 2019

www.walesonline.co.uk

"Ayrshire and Arran NHS Board, which treats patients in south-west Scotland, spent nearly £450,000 on private hire vehicles because it held patients’ individual records on paper until 2018, and did not have the capacity to transfer them electronically."

Scots NHS board spent thousands on fax machines and moving patient records by taxi

A Scottish health board has spent hundreds of thousands of pounds moving paper patient records from hospital to hospital in the back of taxis over the last five years.Ayrshire and Arran NHS Board, which treats patients in south-west Scotland, spent nearly £450,000 on private hire vehicles because it

www.thetimes.co.uk

NHS Scotland still publishing fax numbers

Contact us - NHS Digital

Contact information for Organisation Data Service and 3rd party organisations.

digital.nhs.uk

 

[simon field]

Well take 85% of you ni payments as a good starting point, but taking into account the things the NHS budget covers that you would still want I would say maybe 50% of it

Far more than private treatment then, over the course of a person’s working life!

 

[IanSuth]

Far more than private treatment then, over the course of a person’s working life!

Not when you add up the amount your parents would have had to pay in family private cover whilst you were a child (all those dentist appointments), then all the full private medical cover whilst you were working (including covering any non working family members) then old age medical cover.

I would be amazed if ON AVERAGE it was cheaper to do that via for profit private medical rather than the NHS. You might be lucky and make it through life with no serious injuries/illnesses but I prefer knowing if I get cancer or diabetes or I injure myself on the motorbike/playing rugby that i will not have to put the family in penury to survive.

Remember in the US you tend to lose your medical when you change job and then the new employers insurer has the "pre existing conditions" get out of jail free card, even before you look at their deductables/co pay

 

[IanSuth]

The Astronomical Price of Insulin Hurts American Families

More than 30 million Americans have diabetes, and nearly a quarter of them use insulin to manage their symptoms and prevent life-threatening complications. The price they have to pay for insulin is more than ten times higher than the average prices in 32 other countries combined.

www.rand.org

Read this then say how private healthcare in the US sense works ?

 

[DontAsk]

Far more than private treatment then, over the course of a person’s working life!

Er, no. Not when you subtract the cost of all the previous interactions with the NHS.

 

[Fennaio]

Lower or abolish corporation tax for start-ups, lower employer and employee NI for start-ups, lower dividend tax for Directors in their first 5 years of business if they are employing people.

Basically anything to encourage entrepreneurship.

They always bang on about creating business and wealth via hard work and entrepreneurship, but if you're heavily taxing start-ups from day one, how on earth is a new company supposed to properly grow and reach its full potential.

 

[simon field]

Er, no. Not when you subtract the cost of all the previous interactions with the NHS.

Wisdom has been chasing you, but you have always been faster ?

 

[Videoguy]

Scrap the proposed NIC and corporation tax rises.

 

[simon field]

Scrap the proposed NIC and corporation tax rises.

And replace them with?

 

[Newchodge]

And replace them with?

A tax on all unearned income which matches income tax levels?

 

[japancool]

A huge tax on foreign licensing fees between connected parties.

 

[simon field]

A tax on all unearned income which matches income tax levels?

Such as, pensions, house sales, profits from investments (like shareholders dividends), benefit payments?

 

[Newchodge]

Such as, pensions, house sales, profits from investments (like shareholders dividends), benefit payments?

Yes. Pensions are already taxed in the same way as earned income.Benefit payments aren't but there is no reason why they should not be (although they would have to be increased so that the amount received is not reduced).

 

[IanSuth]

I agree a harmonisation of as many differing taxes and allowances as possible (income, CGT, small company corporation tax etc) would hugely simplify the tax regime and make it pretty pointless to spend loads shifting assets around and changing legal basis for what you do just to try and be liable for a lower rate. I would also scrap NI and roll it into income tax for employees and corporation tax, same with apprentice levy.

The simplification itself would reduce the cost of collecting tax as well so a win all round for the country (except tax accountants and "wealth advisors")

 

[japancool]

Benefit payments aren't but there is no reason why they should not be (although they would have to be increased so that the amount received is not reduced).

Then what's the point? That's just shifting money from one government department to another.

 

[IanSuth]

Then what's the point? That's just shifting money from one government department to another.

Same as making student nurses/doctors pay for tuition fees at uni then having to raise their wages to cover the repayments

Only point would be that you would have a simple taxation landscape with less chance of strata where earning an extra £1 cost you more than £1

 

[Newchodge]

Then what's the point? That's just shifting money from one government department to another.

So that all income, whatever its source, is taxed equally.

 

[Elliott Coleman]

The Astronomical Price of Insulin Hurts American Families

More than 30 million Americans have diabetes, and nearly a quarter of them use insulin to manage their symptoms and prevent life-threatening complications. The price they have to pay for insulin is more than ten times higher than the average prices in 32 other countries combined.

www.rand.org

Read this then say how private healthcare in the US sense works ?

Somebody else fixated on the US healthcare system.

 

[clyde123]

A bit late to this thread, but one thing I would like to see from a new PM would be overturning the laws banning those awaiting decisions for asylum seeker applications.
People in those situations can be left waiting years. During that time they are banned from working, also I think banned from working in voluntary situations.

Then benefits to the country would be big. Allowing them - within any necessary limits - to work just as any of us do, would reduce or eliminate benefits costs to the taxpayer. Surely that's a big gripe from many opposing immigration?
And for professionals, it would allow them to keep up with with whatever regulations, protocols, methods of working, etc etc.

 

[simon field]

A bit late to this thread, but one thing I would like to see from a new PM would be overturning the laws banning those awaiting decisions for asylum seeker applications.
People in those situations can be left waiting years. During that time they are banned from working, also I think banned from working in voluntary situations.

Then benefits to the country would be big. Allowing them - within any necessary limits - to work just as any of us do, would reduce or eliminate benefits costs to the taxpayer. Surely that's a big gripe from many opposing immigration?
And for professionals, it would allow them to keep up with with whatever regulations, protocols, methods of working, etc etc.

Agreed. Also it would be a good idea to stop spending £5m a day on hotels to put them in! Total waste of money.

 

[Newchodge]

Agreed. Also it would be a good idea to stop spending £5m a day on hotels to put them in! Total waste of money.

Where do you think they should live?

 

[japancool]

We could just ship them off to some third-world country like Australia.