egg free cake shop / takeaway / coffee buiseness information needed for start up please !

[henza997]

hello everyone i hope you guys are doing good
i recently moved to england, i don't know a lot of things when it comes to insurance / legal fees / terms and all of that basicly
i am an e-marketer / devlopper / graphic designer. i have a lot of knowlegdge when it comes to marketing and selling online branding etc...
but i always had the ambition to open my own buiseness and marketize it, scale it and grow it my self
as a hobby i do cooking,
i make 2-5k up to 7k a month just by working from home and i have time to do what i want during the day or night.
with my expenses rent and all i managed to save this last year 35k i can get it up to 50k in the next few months
i visited once egg free cake shop and i liked the idea and i can see my self learning how to bake similar cakes even if had to take a 6 month course or something like that i don't mind
or a take away buiseness
if anyone here in this forum can give me help answering my questions down below i would appreciate the help
my questions are :
* what's are the legal things in the uk that i need to know before opening a food buiseness ?
- i v read about insurance fees before in the forum and i don't know what that means and why i need it and how much does it cost yearly
- if any one in a takeaway buiseness or a cake shop buiseness please let me know how much will it cost me to start knowing that i will do the website / logo / marketing my self
i just wanna know costs of oven for example what do i need to else such as equipement and stuff
- i am looking to have 2 staff in the kitchen and me in the cashier what are the wages that i can give as a start .
- last question is how much is the profit merging for example how much a burger cost or a cake or kebabs as a start until i grow my buiseness and find more profitable recipes with same quality or find better suppliers
thank you a lot and sorry if i was long in my message
also i am very open with any other suggestions so far takeaways and the free egg cake idea got my intresst

 

[Mark T Jones]

That's a lot of questions in one post!

You might do better to break it down a bit and ask in relevant sections.

Before looking at premises etc, have you researched the market? Whist niches are good, you need to be sure that there is sufficient demand to make this viable.

Your model indicates that you would be taking on premises, which is something that requires close attention.

Insurance - as a starting point, employers liability, public liability, product liability @Frank the Insurance guy can give more detail

If I'm honest, given your inexperience I'd start doing this from home in your spare time and selling through Facebook to test the concept

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I never understood egg free products until my Granddaughter developed an egg allergy as a baby
From what I can see this is a good expanding market to be in and there should be some decent opportunities for those that get it right

 

[IanSuth]

If you are selling food to the public you will need to take a food hygiene course - they are cheap (your staff will need to take as well)

homepageland

This approved online Level 2 food hygiene course ensures that food handlers comply with the requirements of the UK Food Safety Act.

food-safety.org.uk

Also talk to (or find info on) your local and surrounding councils environmental health team re their inspection regime food food prep establishments, def before you rent a property. Sometimes it can be worth getting premises slightly further away or costing slightly more than one in an area where either the inspection regime will be onerous or worse where the local authority know a history of building defects. i.e. if you rent a premises with a kitchen that they know has had a rat problem in the past expect them to pay particular attention to your pest control plans

 

[BusterBloodvessel]

What are your reasons for wanting to sell egg free cakes? What do you know about making them? What do you know about the demand for them? They're the questions I'd start with - I'll be honest it does seem like you've plucked an idea out of the air. What makes you think there is a demand for them and how big is that demand?

As suggested above i would start from home (you still need to register with the council) and test the water through FB / IG.

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

i v read about insurance fees before in the forum and i don't know what that means and why i need it and how much does it cost yearly

Insurance - as a starting point, employers liability, public liability, product liability @Frank the Insurance guy can give more detail

Hi @henza997 ,

The only Insurance you legally have to have is Employers Liability Insurance - this is relatively cheap for a few employees in a catering business.

However as @Mark T Jones suggests, you should also consider Public and Employers Liability.

In practical term, the most economical policy for you is a "package" insurance policy for the catering industry - In addition to Employers, Public and Products Liability, it will also provide insurance cover for loss or damage to property, loss of revenue or gross profit etc.

Once you have a premises in mind, and have a budget plan (including turnover, wages, cost of equipment etc), contact an Independent Insurance Broker who will be able to discuss your business insurance needs, talk you through the options, and provide some quotations for you.

Feel free to contact me directly, I will be happy to provide a quotation (Contact details below in my signature).

Here is my guide to the different types of insurance available and what they mean:

Meadow Broking for All Your Business Insurance

Get free quotes for business insurance. Public liability, employers' liability & more. Complex cases a speciality | We can help when others can't

meadowbroking.co.uk

 

[henza997]

What are your reasons for wanting to sell egg free cakes? What do you know about making them? What do you know about the demand for them? They're the questions I'd start with - I'll be honest it does seem like you've plucked an idea out of the air. What makes you think there is a demand for them and how big is that demand?

As suggested above i would start from home (you still need to register with the council) and test the water through FB / IG.

the idea didn't come randomly i tested the cake my self and a lot of people these days likes to be healthy and egg free tasty cakes makes marketing more easy ! like i said i am ready to learn or to take a course for 6 month or something i have time and that won't affect my job !
regarding the demand if the cakes are good i can scal any type of buiseness i'am a digital marketer i can work my way out and bring clients and orders

 

[henza997]

Hi @henza997 ,

The only Insurance you legally have to have is Employers Liability Insurance - this is relatively cheap for a few employees in a catering business.

However as @Mark T Jones suggests, you should also consider Public and Employers Liability.

In practical term, the most economical policy for you is a "package" insurance policy for the catering industry - In addition to Employers, Public and Products Liability, it will also provide insurance cover for loss or damage to property, loss of revenue or gross profit etc.

Once you have a premises in mind, and have a budget plan (including turnover, wages, cost of equipment etc), contact an Independent Insurance Broker who will be able to discuss your business insurance needs, talk you through the options, and provide some quotations for you.

Feel free to contact me directly, I will be happy to provide a quotation (Contact details below in my signature).

Here is my guide to the different types of insurance available and what they mean:

Meadow Broking for All Your Business Insurance

Get free quotes for business insurance. Public liability, employers' liability & more. Complex cases a speciality | We can help when others can't

meadowbroking.co.uk

thankss

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Most towns centres are going through a tough time with lots of closed shops , few footfall and a general trend to online shopping
Therefore selecting a outlet for your cakes could be very hard to find a good location with long term prospects
I would suggest investigating just a small commercial starter unit and sell direct to shops, restaurants, café, shops etc instead of selling direct to consumers

 

[henza997]

That's a lot of questions in one post!

You might do better to break it down a bit and ask in relevant sections.

Before looking at premises etc, have you researched the market? Whist niches are good, you need to be sure that there is sufficient demand to make this viable.

Your model indicates that you would be taking on premises, which is something that requires close attention.

Insurance - as a starting point, employers liability, public liability, product liability @Frank the Insurance guy can give more detail

If I'm honest, given your inexperience I'd start doing this from home in your spare time and selling through Facebook to test the concept

i know that's a lot of questions lol ! i just wanted to have a general idea ! since i am new in the country and i don't know from where to start but of course when i establish my idea i will study the market and have a look properly

 

[henza997]

Most towns centres are going through a tough time with lots of closed shops , few footfall and a general trend to online shopping
Therefore selecting a outlet for your cakes could be very hard to find a good location with long term prospects
I would suggest investigating just a small commercial starter unit and sell direct to shops, restaurants, café, shops etc instead of selling direct to consumers

thanks a lot
i will start online orders as well and in the future i will be offering delivery using my website and deliveroo as well
but e-commerce and online buiseness it's hard to get them successful these days, unless you ready to pay a lot of money to the ads to make the sales
if you have an exisitng buiseness it's easy to make it work and target the right people
rather than pay many ads that won't bring you any good apart from testing .
if i sell to coffe shops and restaurant i have to lower the price a lot to deal with them when i can bring clients myself using my marketing stategies

 

[Mark T Jones]

thanks a lot
i will start online orders as well and in the future i will be offering delivery using my website and deliveroo as well
but e-commerce and online buiseness it's hard to get them successful these days, unless you ready to pay a lot of money to the ads to make the sales
if you have an exisitng buiseness it's easy to make it work and target the right people
rather than pay many ads that won't bring you any good apart from testing .
if i sell to coffe shops and restaurant i have to lower the price a lot to deal with them when i can bring clients myself using my marketing stategies

If you think online is hard, wait until you start in B & M!

But seriously, it's goods to ask questions & explore, but you need to d a lot of research & planning before you start looking at getting into premises.

 

[fisicx]

Why just egg free?

There are a whole load of different allergies you could cater for: nut, gluten, lactose are three obvious ones.

Stick with working from home and do local deliveries, supplying cafes, garden centres and such. Maybe even farmers markets.

We have one local place that get a delivery of fresh cakes each day. They are usually all gone by lunchtime.

 

[henza997]

If you think online is hard, wait until you start in B & M!

But seriously, it's goods to ask questions & explore, but you need to d a lot of research & planning before you start looking at getting into premises.

thank's man !
i meant i can bring clients & orders from my online marketing would be easier to build a database of clients and stuff but obviosly i never started something in B & M !
i never thought i will relay on the location only

 

[Chris Ashdown]

If you set up next to Greggs you would get fantastic footfall, but pay massive overheads and have a very strong competitor

A strong brand sold to other outlets would i guess get far better results than a independent B&M shop. Internet sales can be good but I doubt its a strong market for cakes as delivering at least day old cakes

 

[MikeJ]

It'll take you 10 minutes to work out how many cakes you need to sell to cover the cost of a shop, two employees and yourself. It's never going to happen.

 

[BusterBloodvessel]

the idea didn't come randomly i tested the cake my self and a lot of people these days likes to be healthy and egg free tasty cakes makes marketing more easy ! like i said i am ready to learn or to take a course for 6 month or something i have time and that won't affect my job !
regarding the demand if the cakes are good i can scal any type of buiseness i'am a digital marketer i can work my way out and bring clients and orders

I once employed an e-marketer and graphic designer and I like the idea, I could see myself doing that. I'm prepared to go to night school and learn for a few months then I want to open an office with a receptionist and 2 graphic designers. Can anyone tell me what it will cost, what computers and software I need, etc? What is the profit margin for graphic designers?


Do you see where I'm going with this....?

 

[IanSuth]

Why just egg free?

There are a whole load of different allergies you could cater for: nut, gluten, lactose are three obvious ones.

Stick with working from home and do local deliveries, supplying cafes, garden centres and such. Maybe even farmers markets.

We have one local place that get a delivery of fresh cakes each day. They are usually all gone by lunchtime.

Egg free is very popular with the Indian diasporas Indian sweets tend not to use egg (but are very sweet). Many Indian sweet shops also make UK style deserts but using no egg. We even have a small cake stall in the entrance to our Asda locally which is totally egg free and makes a fortune out of selling small cakes (cup cakes or slices from a platter with an Oreo cookie or something on them) to teenagers who give them as birthday treats to their friends (or a present to a girlfriend) and they are not cheap - they are a franchise and there are over 100 nationally
www.eggfreecake.co.uk

 

[henza997]

I once employed an e-marketer and graphic designer and I like the idea, I could see myself doing that. I'm prepared to go to night school and learn for a few months then I want to open an office with a receptionist and 2 graphic designers. Can anyone tell me what it will cost, what computers and software I need, etc? What is the profit margin for graphic designers?


Do you see where I'm going with this....?

you won't need a stong laptop or cumputer unless you are doing video editing or 3d designs
me personnaly since i am doing websites and logos / banners and flyers i am only using photoshop and adobe illustator . btw you can learn the basics to start with but you need more than few month in photoshop combined with illustrator ! the more work you do the more you learn and you find your own ways on how to use the software
regarding the costs it depends on your work most professional graphic designers work as a freelancers because they are very creative and unique with thier work some logos they can charge you 500 400 quid
but as an agency you can charge people 40 60 quid per logo or you can offer a package for example logo+poster+other stuff
there is a genuine profit once you build a data of customers that they will come back to you every time they want an edit or a new poster or something like that
i don't know the wages here in england for graphic designers
but the important thing is to brand your agency and bring loyal clients that will come back to you everytime they want something
i'v been doing this since 2014 and i have clients all around the glob i moved countries and they still contact me until today for work

 

[henza997]

Egg free is very popular with the Indian diasporas Indian sweets tend not to use egg (but are very sweet). Many Indian sweet shops also make UK style deserts but using no egg. We even have a small cake stall in the entrance to our Asda locally which is totally egg free and makes a fortune out of selling small cakes (cup cakes or slices from a platter with an Oreo cookie or something on them) to teenagers who give them as birthday treats to their friends (or a present to a girlfriend) and they are not cheap - they are a franchise and there are over 100 nationally
www.eggfreecake.co.uk

thanks ! yeah that the idea
basicly same concept but i wanted to do my brand, not franchise simply because i can brand my own brand my self with my strategies if the buiseness goes well i will open more shops and make it a franchise myself
and since i am working from my laptop i am not actually relaying on the money of the buiseness if didn;t go well i see it as an experience i will save again and start another thing
but the thing i have no clue about is the costs to start so i will know if i am ready shall i go do a course and work somewheres to learn or stay home and save more...

 

[ecommerce84]

I’d say you’ll need at least 100k just to get the shop up and running and to cover your first year as it’s unlikely you’ll make a profit in year one and you probably won’t in year 2 either.

And that’s if the shop is opened in a budget - 2nd hand kit etc.

Insurance is negligible compared to the cost of 2 staff. Catering staff are hard to come by at the moment, especially those in the kitchens. You may have to pay them more than you’d expect to attract decent people.

 

[henza997]

I’d say you’ll need at least 100k just to get the shop up and running and to cover your first year as it’s unlikely you’ll make a profit in year one and you probably won’t in year 2 either.

And that’s if the shop is opened in a budget - 2nd hand kit etc.

Insurance is negligible compared to the cost of 2 staff. Catering staff are hard to come by at the moment, especially those in the kitchens. You may have to pay them more than you’d expect to attract decent people.

thank you

 

[ethical PR]

the idea didn't come randomly i tested the cake my self and a lot of people these days likes to be healthy and egg free tasty cakes makes marketing more easy ! like i said i am ready to learn or to take a course for 6 month or something i have time and that won't affect my job !
regarding the demand if the cakes are good i can scal any type of buiseness i'am a digital marketer i can work my way out and bring clients and orders

What market research have you done around demand for egg free cakes ? What do know about your target market ? Price points? How you will market these cakes ? What have you set aside as a marketing budget ?

 

[henza997]

I’d say you’ll need at least 100k just to get the shop up and running and to cover your first year as it’s unlikely you’ll make a profit in year one and you probably won’t in year 2 either.

And that’s if the shop is opened in a budget - 2nd hand kit etc.

Insurance is negligible compared to the cost of 2 staff. Catering staff are hard to come by at the moment, especially those in the kitchens. You may have to pay them more than you’d expect to attract decent people.

sorry can you tell me a little bit more how the start will cost me 100k ? Is it 100k a year do u mean with staff payment / rent and all or 100k just to open the buiseness and start it

 

[simon field]

Sorry but I don’t understand this at all. Eggs aren’t unhealthy. A few people have an egg intolerance etc, but the vast, vast majority of people who like cakes, like eggs in them! Why would you disregard the majority of your market?

Why not just do amazing cakes, with a small selection of egg free recipes?

Or if you want healthy, why not do sugar-free cakes?

 

[henza997]

Sorry but I don’t understand this at all. Eggs aren’t unhealthy. A few people have an egg intolerance etc, but the vast, vast majority of people who like cakes, like eggs in them! Why would you disregard the majority of your market?

Why not just do amazing cakes, with a small selection of egg free recipes?

Or if you want healthy, why not do sugar-free cakes?

Some people have egg allergy so they can’t eat cakes and it’s a way of marketing ! To be honest I haven’t decided yet i won’t limit my choices and options i just wanna know how much can it cost me to start first and study the idea of what cakes i might start doing

 

[Mark T Jones]

Sorry but I don’t understand this at all. Eggs aren’t unhealthy. A few people have an egg intolerance etc, but the vast, vast majority of people who like cakes, like eggs in them! Why would you disregard the majority of your market?

Why not just do amazing cakes, with a small selection of egg free recipes?

Or if you want healthy, why not do sugar-free cakes?

Niches are generally a good thing - as long as your research shows that there is sufficient market in your area

 

[simon field]

Niches are generally a good thing - as long as your research shows that there is sufficient market in your area

Oh I agree Mark, but footfall is way down just about everywhere. I’d suggest as wide a target market as possible in these weird times.

 

[fisicx]

Some people have egg allergy so they can’t eat cakes and it’s a way of marketing !

That's a while different thing to your original suggestion. If you want to market a range of cakes covering all sorts of allergies and sell them locally you may have a viable business.

But it would have to be local. Packing and shipping cakes across the country will be expensive and liable to get a lot of returns. But supply all the local outlets and your whole life becomes much simpler.

I knew a lady in north london who got a van fitted out and supplied hotels, cafes and restaurants. She would bake in the evening and deliver first thing in the morning. Don't know if she is still in business as I helped her out many years ago.

 

[henza997]

That's a while different thing to your original suggestion. If you want to market a range of cakes covering all sorts of allergies and sell them locally you may have a viable business.

But it would have to be local. Packing and shipping cakes across the country will be expensive and liable to get a lot of returns. But supply all the local outlets and your whole life becomes much simpler.

I knew a lady in north london who got a van fitted out and supplied hotels, cafes and restaurants. She would bake in the evening and deliver first thing in the morning. Don't know if she is still in business as I helped her out many years ago.

thanks for the clarification , you are shipping across the country might be very tricky with return specially fresh cakes i will stick just locally

 

[IanSuth]

thanks for the clarification , you are shipping across the country might be very tricky with return specially fresh cakes i will stick just locally

Maybe a selection of small egg or dairy or specific allergen free wedding/celebration cakes, contact all the local wedding/celebration venues and have then offer them as a " we can supply the following allergen/dietary specific cakes fresh on the day in per portion amounts to add to your offering to clients"

 

[MattRumbelow]

Just a quick suggestion. Why not go with 'vegan bakery'? This is surely a wider market (and more trendy right now). I think egg-free will only cater to people with allergies or intolerances, while vegan will cover all those people, but will also cover a much wider market. For the SEO you could call it a Vegan and egg-free bakery/cafe to really catch all those markets.

I do think, however, if egg free cakes are a popular with the Indian diaspora then that could be an interesting rationale to play into marketing-wise. You could sell egg-free (or vegan) versions of traditional indian desserts and put up signs explaining their significance to non-indian customers.