EU IOSS Signup

[Graham Wharton]

Therefore, all of the more cost effective shipping services to EU countries are no longer accessible (we were paying about £8 shipping for a parcel to Germany which would cost about £13 with RM using OLA for example). We can still send by 'premium' services such as FedEx Next Day through TGE as they will still collect duties on delivery as they used to.

A 1.5kg Small Parcel OLA Parcel to Germany is £11.60 and is charged in weight bands £20 compo
A 1.5kg Small Parcel IE1 Parcel to Germany is £7.93+intl surcharge and is charged per item per gram £0 compo

Speak to your account manager to get switched onto IE/MP/MT Business Parcel Services. Theyre much cheaper than Standard On Account International services. You might need a minimum spend to qualify.

 

[Alex McMillan]

Does the Royal Mail PDDP service actually exist, has anyone been able

Sign up ?
Find the Service Codes ?
Find out when/if its live ?

Thanks. Alex

 

[romeo b]

Does the Royal Mail PDDP service actually exist, has anyone been able

Sign up ?
Find the Service Codes ?
Find out when/if its live ?

Thanks. Alex

I have asked them repeatedly, no replies.

No information about how to sign up.

No information on costs.

No information whether to utilise existing services (tracked, signed, t+s, international priority/standard) in conjunction with eBay

Nothing. They are simply not replying.

RM at it's finest.

We were never really assigned an account 'manager' either, only had a field engineer email us and ring us after a few weeks of account activation to ask if we needed any help. He's since left and nobody else seems to be giving us information who to speak to.

Truth is that nobody at RM knows.

 

[Morning]

It's not ready yet. "PDDP is currently undergoing trial, due to be operational by July." Maybe they mean 2022...

 

[romeo b]

Imagine being this bad, and not being able to get this into place for when people actually need it to continue using their services with adequate time to figure it out <sigh>

 

[Alex McMillan]

Thanks everyone well im glad im not just being dim. Ill keep and eye here as sure if anyone hears anything they will post it.

I have spoken to our account manager but so far hes not been able to tell me much.

 

[schmexit]

RM have now told me:

"IOSS Number – Customers should enter their IOSS number in the ‘Importer Tax Code Data’ field on the CN23 and in the ‘Pre-reg. tax scheme’ on the CN22"

 

[Graham Wharton]

RM have now told me:

"IOSS Number – Customers should enter their IOSS number in the ‘Importer Tax Code Data’ field on the CN23 and in the ‘Pre-reg. tax scheme’ on the CN22"

If you're using click and drop, you can enter the IOSS number on the trading names section in setting. That is presuming any of us actually get an ioss number.

 

[schmexit]

If you're using click and drop, you can enter the IOSS number on the trading names section in setting. That is presuming any of us actually get an ioss number.

I keep asking them where to enter this in Click & Drop and they keep sending me links that do not actually answer this and emails like that one. I mean, it's tragic.

 

[romeo b]

I keep asking them where to enter this in Click & Drop and they keep sending me links that do not actually answer this and emails like that one. I mean, it's tragic.

It would go in the “Pre Reg Tax Scheme” box and selecting the Europe option I think. (In the “trading names” section). They should rename it and sharpish.

You will either be using your own IOSS (if you’ve appointed someone to do all the filing), or Royal Mail’s if you use the PDDP services (if they ever give us information how to use them).

Or, eBay sales will pass the eBay IOSS number into Click and Drop for you.

 

[Morning]

Still can't post links: www dot royalmail dot com/sites/royalmail dot com/files/2021-06/ioss-click-and-drop-step-by-step dot pdf

The link was on this page: www dot royalmail dot com/business/international/guide/delivered-duties-paid/ioss-faqs

 

[romeo b]

Still can't post links: www dot royalmail dot com/sites/royalmail dot com/files/2021-06/ioss-click-and-drop-step-by-step dot pdf

The link was on this page: www dot royalmail dot com/business/international/guide/delivered-duties-paid/ioss-faqs

yeah so it is in the place I mentioned above, although in my circumstances I’ll have to set two trading names up, so number1 can be eBay and it’ll use their IOSS, and number2 will just do my website, using RM’s IOSS (when DDP becomes usable).

Otherwise everything (eBay and website and random sales) will all utilise the same IOSS which can’t happen.

 

[Morning]

Royal Mail PDDP won't use an IOSS number, unless it somehow integrates into a shop checkout process like Taxamo Assure. But I don't think that's what's planned.

 

[romeo b]

Royal Mail PDDP won't use an IOSS number, unless it somehow integrates into a shop checkout process like Taxamo Assure. But I don't think that's what's planned.

I thought the IOSS essentially shows that the tax is paid, so “cleared”?

When someone buys from our site, i envisaged:

- buyer pays me price plus their VAT rate.
- I dispatch using RM PDDP and they charge me the same vat back, plus fee.
- Customs will show their IOSS no on the item.

or am I understanding that wrong? I can’t see how else it will work especially for the likes of us dispatching low value items to Europe via our website and not using some intermediary.

Or are you saying just because it’s a DDP service the IOSS number doesn’t matter, as it’s irrespective as the VAT is prepaid to use the service itself?

 

[Morning]

See my post at the bottom of page nine about the difference between IOSS (taxamo assure in that instance) and RM PDDP.

Edit:
To use the IOSS, a sale must be completed on a platform that is registered with the IOSS - either a shop where they are registered through an intermediary, on an online marketplace like Ebay or Etsy, or through a system like Taxamo Assure that mimics the 'deemed seller' process that Ebay and Etsy are bound by.

 

[romeo b]

See my post at the bottom of page nine about the difference between IOSS (taxamo assure in that instance) and RM PDDP.

Edit:
To use the IOSS, a sale must be completed on a platform that is registered with the IOSS - either a shop where they are registered through an intermediary, on an online marketplace like Ebay or Etsy, or through a system like Taxamo Assure that mimics the 'deemed seller' process that Ebay and Etsy are bound by.

thanks, I did see that, just so much reading and new bits and pieces of info all the time that it’s getting hard remembering what I’ve seen!

But in essence, assuming PDDP is up and running, I can continue website sales of our own by charging the VAT, and using PDDP, and then RM debit it back from us - and item reaches customer without “unpaid tax” or “handling fees”?

Involving an intermediary, for us, isn’t cost effective at this stage.

 

[Morning]

Yes. The customer shouldn’t have any additional costs to what they pay at checkout.

 

[schmexit]

It would go in the “Pre Reg Tax Scheme” box and selecting the Europe option I think. (In the “trading names” section). They should rename it and sharpish.

You will either be using your own IOSS (if you’ve appointed someone to do all the filing), or Royal Mail’s if you use the PDDP services (if they ever give us information how to use them).

Or, eBay sales will pass the eBay IOSS number into Click and Drop for you.

Thanks. I asked them to confirm, and they replied with:

"The information you requested was in the email
Please see below:
IOSS Number – Customers should enter their IOSS number in the ‘Importer Tax Code Data’ field on the CN23 and in the ‘Pre-reg. tax scheme’ on the CN22"

 

[Foxxycarr]

Guys, check these guys out. They have started posting and replying on the Shopify forums I am also on, this seems like the best deal I have found to date from a company called crossborderit.com (these are direct pastes from Shopify forum:

"We offer an interesting version of this service, IOSS for a flat fee + sub charge. It is 1 Euro per transaction so it is easy to pass onto the customer.

".You will sign up your company and receive a private link
.You will then sign up for IOSS and receive it within 3-7 days
.You will receive access to our system.
.You will need to calculate VAT in your checkout
.There is a 3-month minimum of subscription fee of 19.99eur/month
.You will receive a PayPal driven account for billing in the next week.
.You will upload your daily shipping into our platform or integrate our API (this can be done in the future)
.Payments are dropped into the PayPal account
.We handle the rest- compliance, reporting etc. You can track in our platform."

"
Yes we do all the reporting and filing. If you have questions you can email me.. I am happy to help. Our solution is a complete solution."

Hope this helps.

 

[Morning]

"Use your own, Crossborderit’s or any other tax calculator to show the price of tax in the checkout. Customers can choose 25%, which is the highest VAT in the checkout for quick processing. Include the flat fee for CBIT tax processing and Compliance in the checkout."

I must be missing something, because Hungary VAT is 27%.

But it seems they're acting as a pay-as-you-go Intermediary, rather than a pay-as-you-go 'Deemed Supplier' like Taxamo Assure. Something to look into anyway.

 

[JPMiddleton]

"Use your own, Crossborderit’s or any other tax calculator to show the price of tax in the checkout. Customers can choose 25%, which is the highest VAT in the checkout for quick processing. Include the flat fee for CBIT tax processing and Compliance in the checkout."

I must be missing something, because Hungary VAT is 27%.

I stumbled across this company a couple of weeks ago and when I called their support line (after a couple of redirects) someone answered 'Hello'. That didn't fill me with confidence! So I have refrained from referencing them on here, though I suspect it is a rather small business or one-man band, which is fine.

I emailed the adirectly to them to point out that this (do 25% for all) is terrible advice. Even if Hungary was not 27% you can't charge 25% to all EU customers, it smells of a company who are not specialists and do not understand VAT nevermind IOSS, I personally am going to stay well clear.

 

[JPMiddleton]

He also stated that he thought that was an old PDF and it's not on the site anymore, until I then sent him a link. He then admitted it is the wrong advice but that it's no longer on the site, which it was..

He also did not recognise his own link for the PDF, worryingly. Though it does look to now have been updated. The PDF at least.

https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/5f9...e8aac6c1_CBIT IOSS Leave Behind - General.pdf

 

[Morning]

Ah I wondered where that other PDF went.

Yeah you definitely can't do a flat EU-wide VAT rate with the IOSS. The whole point is the customer pays their countries VAT rate. The pricing is just so far below what other Intermediaries are asking it seems too good to be true. Considering the risk they'd be taking on, and probably from a lot of small businesses who might not have done their IOSS homework... yeah, doesn't seem quite right.

 

[romeo b]

With regards to the Royal Mail PDDP services they’re proposing, I notice at the bottom of the page here:

https://www.royalmail.com/business/international/guide/delivered-duties-paid-ioss

it asks you (in the Commercial Invoice section) to provide a signed invoice. Annoying, as this will slow things down considerably and means pouches on all outgoing items - 99% of which are thin regular C5 envelopes which meet the 5mm thickness. A pouch and invoices will push it into large letter. I can deal with this though I’m sure, utilising small pouches and excessive printing of unnecessary paper. I send bigger stuff through UPS so used to doing the 3x invoices in a pouch thing, but using RM and small letters is going to be a nightmare.

However, then, it says: “You can send items of Large Letter and Parcel Format dimensions (see format specifications below). These will all be processed and charged as a single piece Parcel, irrespective of format.”

I really hope this doesn’t mean every single thing needs to be sent as one base price.

How are you meant to send a small letter worth £10 overseas and have it so the customer doesn’t get charged? Normal postage cost is around £3-4.

.. and they still haven’t said a word.. one week to go… so much for keeping people informed.

sigh

 

[Kate881]

Similar situation here, we use Shopwired who have done the leg work to allow us to bill correct VAT amounts but no integration with Taxamo (requested pricing a few weeks ago, still nothing, they said the API isn't very clear & have had a few conversations but I've not heard anything) registered with Crossborderit, no pricing available there & no real instructions on how it works but they are registered as intermediaries & give a child IOSS (or so it says!) and no response to email. I use Click & Drop with RM but not on account & UPS are just generally no help to anyone with anything at the moment and can't even reply to emails with an actual answer just auto response! So I guess customers will just have to pay whatever is billed until it's sorted!

 

[Nathan89]

Has anyone managed to get IOSS number for their own site yet? I was asking all these questions back in January on other forums and I would say only the past month or 2 services have actually popped up offering this registration

I have signed up with deloitte and given some details but no response yet and same with simplyvat

 

[romeo b]

Honestly at this stage you might as well wait for the proper HMRC portal they've promised. They aren't going to want every business in the country to be using different places at expense, when HMRC can sort it and charge accordingly and tie it in with your accounts/VAT/etc.

I imagine it will be a case of then logging the VAT owed and remit it to them on a quarterly basis or something, in exchange for a magic IOSS number

Or in an ideal world, this is how I saw it working.

It is just cumbersome to be trying to integrate with these various platforms and utilising middlemen and dealing with the unfit and uneducated sales people when a much simpler procedure is on the horizon

 

[Alex McMillan]

Honestly at this stage you might as well wait for the proper HMRC portal they've promised. They aren't going to want every business in the country to be using different places at expense, when HMRC can sort it and charge accordingly and tie it in with your accounts/VAT/etc.

I imagine it will be a case of then logging the VAT owed and remit it to them on a quarterly basis or something, in exchange for a magic IOSS number

Or in an ideal world, this is how I saw it working.

It is just cumbersome to be trying to integrate with these various platforms and utilising middlemen and dealing with the unfit and uneducated sales people when a much simpler procedure is on the horizon

I guess what im worried about this is when will the portal be live ? If someone has some inside information that its going to be live in weeks as opposed to months i think i would wait ? Just some people are speculating that it might not be till the end of the year.

 

[Nathan89]

I agree with Alex, HMRC aren't good at the basics so I can't see this being up and running anytime soon, the only way forward is with a company who can do it for you. I really don't see why the EU doesn't just open it up and make it easier for outside EU companies to register

 

[DefinitelyMaybeUK]

Re: my previous post on pricing for the MP7/MP9/MTE service codes that parcels need for IOSS as listed on the RM FAQ Page- i've finally found some pricings online after no joy with RM directly (no surprises there). It was hidden in the International Business Services CalculatorXLS under 'Prices' on this page: https://www.royalmail.com/business/international/services/business-mail

So it seems the 'Country Priced' services are a good 10-25% cheaper than the 'Zone Sort' that RM told us to use previously (grrr) i.e MP1/MP5/MTA. The pricing for Norway & Switzerland is now relatively sensible, as under previous business pricing those countries were always classed as ROW whilst personal customers had them classed far cheaper as Europe! As we use the Click & Drop API, it had blindly bypassed us that the 'Country Priced' services had now been made available as an option.

So what's the catch, it seems too good to be true? The delivery times are meant to be the same. Is it the default level of compensation or something? I assume we still need to sort into separate zone bags as before i.e EU/ROW-A/ROW-B. Can anyone shed any light on this?

 

[romeo b]

Re: my previous post on pricing for the MP7/MP9/MTE service codes that parcels need for IOSS as listed on the RM FAQ Page- i've finally found some pricings online after no joy with RM directly (no surprises there). It was hidden in the International Business Services CalculatorXLS under 'Prices' on this page: https://www.royalmail.com/business/international/services/business-mail

So it seems the 'Country Priced' services are a good 10-25% cheaper than the 'Zone Sort' that RM told us to use previously (grrr) i.e MP1/MP5/MTA. The pricing for Norway & Switzerland is now relatively sensible, as under previous business pricing those countries were always classed as ROW whilst personal customers had them classed far cheaper as Europe! As we use the Click & Drop API, it had blindly bypassed us that the 'Country Priced' services had now been made available as an option.

So what's the catch, it seems too good to be true? The delivery times are meant to be the same. Is it the default level of compensation or something? I assume we still need to sort into separate zone bags as before i.e EU/ROW-A/ROW-B. Can anyone shed any light on this?

slightly off topic but RM haven’t said anything to us until in the last day, after many emails I’ve sent about problems and lack of communication and asking who I can talk to, when an account manager got in touch. He’s today told me to use MP7/MP9/MTE for international and these are about 20-30% cheaper for me, and they’re parcel prices too - we send mainly via letters and he said it would work out even cheaper!

So I’m absolutely livid and asked him for prices for all the ideal services we should use. Our old account manager advised me in November to use the ones we currently use (OTA/OTC etc) and seems we’ve been overpaying massively. Wondering if we have a case if I escalate to someone else like invoicing or head office.

I assume I don’t qualify for the high or low volume as we don’t send 1000/4000 of each item at a time, or is that an annual amount? I assume not. We send about 100-150 items a week in mixed parcel, letter and large letter.

it is beyond belief that it doesn’t just show price for the item as you apply postage. This has been requested for 3 years now on the Uservoice Click Drop support forums.

I also assume “zero sort” is just like what we do now? Eg we don’t split anything up by country - only bagging “standard international” as one bag, “tracked/signed/tracked and signed” as another bag, and UK mail separately again.

advice appreciated!

 

[Kate881]

Well Crossborderit have come up trumps as this morning I have had an email from Sweden with an IOSS number! It's showing on the dashboard of their site too. Just need to know costs & how to provide them the amounts I've billed as VAT (luckily Shopwired have done that bit & I can bill all countries the correct rates)

 

[DefinitelyMaybeUK]

I also assume “zero sort” is just like what we do now?

I suspect for track/signed business services you should be using the "International Business Tracked, Signed and Tracked & Signed bag labels (P6668C)" for your bags which by definition need them to be 'zone' sorted - i'm hedging this is still what's needed for the IOSS MP7/MP9/MTE services.

 

[romeo b]

I suspect for track/signed business services you should be using the "International Business Tracked, Signed and Tracked & Signed bag labels (P6668C)" for your bags which by definition need them to be 'zone' sorted - i'm hedging this is still what's needed for the IOSS MP7/MP9/MTE services.

I was told by my old Field Engineer, who is familiar with the operation of the sorting office local to us, to put every single item that requires a signature overseas (So "International Tracked", "International Signed" and "International Tracked & Signed") all into one bag. We have done this for the past 6+ months without issue. Maybe this applies due to using the (overpriced) OTA/OTC/OSA codes. I was then told to sort by zone, but then the said engineer explained it was OK to do as I am doing now, purely for how our local sorting office sorts. I have this in writing and keep it handy in case anything occurs like charges relating to mis-sorts.

I am trying to find out why we were advised last year that they were the most cost effective ones, given the MP7/MP9/MTE ones (for parcels) and MTK/MT0/MTG (large letter) ones are far more cost effective. I am doing my best to get some money back in that sense.

 

[ADC]

I agree with Alex, HMRC aren't good at the basics so I can't see this being up and running anytime soon, the only way forward is with a company who can do it for you. I really don't see why the EU doesn't just open it up and make it easier for outside EU companies to register

The way I see it is this... The EU are saying that you need a fiscal representative as they don't have a mutual VAT recovery agreement with the UK.

Therefore what's to stop someone using any old IOSS number you can get your hands on and not pay anything, because they can do bugger all about it anyway.

If they wanted to do it properly and expect business's to play fairly they should have let us register without all this extra cost. If they want to pay hardball with the UK then it will only cost them, not us.

 

[romeo b]

So as 30th draws to a close, any news on the IOSS/ OSS Portal HMRC said would be ready? I notice their page just says "Updated 30th June" - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/eu-e-commerce-package/eu-vat-e-commerce-package - but everything still relates to being ready by 1st July (tomorrow). So either we roll on blindly or by tomorrow there'll be some big signup process and ability to start your VAT calculation/accounting and continuing to sell without disruption, although it's a bit late for that now.

 

[Morning]

Unless you're in NI and you need to register for the OSS which apparently will be live tomorrow (leaving it a bit late, HMRC?), it still says HMRC's IOSS portal won't be ready. They've just removed the bit where it said further guidance would be issued before July, I think, and added bits about reporting your IOSS number to HMRC.

 

[romeo b]

Unless you're in NI and you need to register for the OSS which apparently will be live tomorrow (leaving it a bit late, HMRC?), it still says HMRC's IOSS portal won't be ready. They've just removed the bit where it said further guidance would be issued before July, I think, and added bits about reporting your IOSS number to HMRC.

On "Outline of the changes > Distance Selling" it says "OSS registration will be available by 1 July 2021" - that is relating to a biz in UK sending to EU, no? Or have I read it wrong?

 

[Morning]

The OSS is for EU state to EU state sales (or NI to EU/ EU to NI sales, because NI Protocol).

 

[Kate881]

OSS isn't IOSS it's all confusing & Shopwired are now doing a last min amendment as they have set it to charge OVER 150 not UNDER FFS nothing is easy!!