The death of the High Street - Has it been exagerated?

[Mark T Jones]

The death of the High Street has become something of a chorus during lockdown / Covid restrictions.

In reality it has been 'predicted' since the 1980s, first with out-of-town retail parks, then edge-of-town supermarkets selling ever-widening ranges of goods then with that there internet..

The big names that make headlines hae actually just had the final push ater decades of decline, failure to invest in brand, multiple owners/asset strippers, no real evolution. Though empty units on that scale do have a very negative impact in the overall retail environment.

My personal take is that, for the most part High Streets won't die - but they will, by necessity change.

It will vary a lot between retail areas, but my personal vision of tomorrow's High Street is:

Some will disappear as shopping areas and become mixed office/resi space.

Some will remain as big brand retail areas - a kind of hybrid between retail parks & designer villages.

Others will become effectively leisure destinations incorporating quirky, independent retail, food halls and entertainment.

Both personally & professionally it is the last one that interests me most.

What are your visions of tomorrow's High Street?

 

[Darren_Ssc]

There will be a few innovations, some of which had already begun, such as big brands using shops more for display than actual retail, mixed use taking advantage of click & collect, more leisure-based businesses, etc.

However, I think the legacy retailers, just bumping along the bottom, are more of a handicap than empty premises because they will drag down an area and make investment by other businesses an unattractive proposition.

 

[Mark T Jones]

There will be a few innovations, some of which had already begun, such as big brands using shops more for display than actual retail, mixed use taking advantage of click & collect, more leisure-based businesses, etc.

However, I think the legacy retailers, just bumping along the bottom, are more of a handicap than empty premises because they will drag down an area and make investment by other businesses an unattractive proposition.

Indeed - 'experience' retail has fast outgrown piles of goods on shelves.

Yet Primark stays resolutely premise & stock based with great success.

 

[japancool]

If you want to see how a high street can work, visit Tokyo.

 

[Darren_Ssc]

Yet Primark stays resolutely premise & stock based with great success.

Primark seems quite unique in that people will crawl over broken glass to shop there?

 

[Mark T Jones]

Primark seems quite unique in that people will crawl over broken glass to shop there?

I wonder what the secrets are? My guess is 80% know you customer & have an excellent supply chain. (it's definitely not in the quality of the merchandise)

 

[Darren_Ssc]

I wonder what the secrets are? My guess is 80% know you customer & have an excellent supply chain. (it's definitely not in the quality of the merchandise)

Sure, they give the customer what they want, cheap, fashionable clothing. The established players also want to sell cheap fashionable clothing but at premium prices. No surprises they struggle to do that.

 

[Irontoe]

I keep reading about the death of the high street, it was supposed to die when home shopping first arrived through the publication of the Gratton catalogue, then it was going to die because of the rise of out of town shopping areas, then it was huge supermarkets selling everything under one roof, then the internet.
There’s an awful lot of people that actually like shopping, it’s a social event, they like browsing, stopping for a coffee, meeting their friends, trying things on etc. That’s not going to go away.

Sure, when things reopen they’ll be a few gaps in the high street but they won’t be there long, newer, fresher upstarts will fill them.

I mentioned something similar in another thread.

I suspect it will be the uniform clone town high streets which will suffer the most. Those with a wide range of independents will thrive.

 

[Irontoe]

It would help if local government and town councils kept their nose out as much as possible of course.
Our local authority has recently bought the town shopping centre and has grand plans to modernise it. All of their plans seem to be reducing the amount of retail space and parking and filling it up with cheap homes and flats. Health centres, gyms, local clubs are all going to have to move out of the town centre so that their plan to bring more people into town can come to fruition. I can’t explain how that will work either.

 

[antropy]

I think Covid has fast-forwarded the decline of the high street but I don't think the high street will die as such. I think the big will get bigger and the small will perish. You are seeing it already with bigger brands buying up struggling companies and I think this will continue. Alex

 

[Deleted member 59730]

If you want to see how a high street can work, visit Tokyo.

Or France. Most towns in France have restrictions on the size of High Street shops. You will find very few branded shops.

 

[Darren_Ssc]

Or France. Most towns in France have restrictions on the size of High Street shops. You will find very few branded shops.

Or Spain, a few branded shops and a dept store with small independent shops used solely for the purpose of money-laundering.

 

[UKSBD]

Ban all cars, have people living above every shop, have awnings on every shop, have things happening in the streets.

 

[UKSBD]

It would help if local government and town councils kept their nose out as much as possible of course.
Our local authority has recently bought the town shopping centre and has grand plans to modernise it. All of their plans seem to be reducing the amount of retail space and parking and filling it up with cheap homes and flats. Health centres, gyms, local clubs are all going to have to move out of the town centre so that their plan to bring more people into town can come to fruition. I can’t explain how that will work either.

Sounds brilliant idea to me, if they do it right.

 

[Mr D]

The death of the high street started in the 19th century, the first mail order with a catalogue (mail order is many centuries older itself).

Its still dying - the dying has accelerated somewhat because of the virus. Perhaps the patient will eventually change its habits and stay alive. Or more likely not - instead they call for a level playing field. Like that would solve their problems.
Sure, a level playing field - 24 hour availability, cheap prices, ease of browsing, ease of payment. Ability to return goods for a full refund.

Oh wait, turns out the shop owners don't want a level playing field, what they want is online sales to be as expensive, hard to pay for, hard to find goods and inability to return goods as the shops do. And only open 9 to 5.
Thats what they mean by level playing field. Not consumer driven, self interest drives it.

 

[Mr D]

Ban all cars, have people living above every shop, have awnings on every shop, have things happening in the streets.

Tried that, split the town in half. Have to drive around to reach the other side of town to park up for shopping. Its a lot cheaper to catch the bus to a nearby city than drive a third of the distance into town and park up.

 

[Mr D]

It would help if local government and town councils kept their nose out as much as possible of course.
Our local authority has recently bought the town shopping centre and has grand plans to modernise it. All of their plans seem to be reducing the amount of retail space and parking and filling it up with cheap homes and flats. Health centres, gyms, local clubs are all going to have to move out of the town centre so that their plan to bring more people into town can come to fruition. I can’t explain how that will work either.

Yes always fun when the local council buy a commercial building. They have no clue about running it - ours made big losses as they often do with commercial enterprises.

 

[MarkOnline]

Entice the independents back, the high streets are too sterile with multiples who have the same offer, the same look.

Street buskers, experience shopping. Sort out the decaying empty shops, clean them up.
Put small wooden cabins in front of them and have the small independents in them offering a specialised offer that adds character. Move away from the cheap tat, the big boys have that market segment sewn up. You cant compete on a level playingfield with the big boys so why bother. Niche highstreets, incentives for grouping trades together, a clothing quarter, a jewellery quarter etc.

It will survive but has to evolve

 

[Mr D]

Entice the independents back, the high streets are too sterile with multiples who have the same offer, the same look.

Street buskers, experience shopping. Sort out the decaying empty shops, clean them up.
Put small wooden cabins in front of them and have the small independents in them offering a specialised offer that adds character. Move away from the cheap tat, the big boys have that market segment sewn up. You cant compete on a level playingfield with the big boys so why bother. Niche highstreets, incentives for grouping trades together, a clothing quarter, a jewellery quarter etc.

It will survive but has to evolve

You want to set up in business in a small wooden cabin go right ahead.
How much do your products need to be seen in order to be purchased?

Some retailers - the stock has to be put in front of customers in such a way as to get sales. Too small an area and can't fit disabled in, can't fit many customers in and people wander off elsewhere.
Small wooden cabin may suit newspaper sellers with a sweet and cakes selection. Doesn't suit a jewelry shop very well.

The cheap tat - the big boys have far from sewn up. Way too much for them to do that.

Yes agreed don't compete on a level playing field with the big boys, you don't want a level playing field. It would disadvantage small businesses to try and have a level playing field with the big boys, the small businesses would lose advantages.

Niche high streets? Wow, you must really want rent and rates to come down. Niches can be way too small.

 

[japancool]

Easy way to fix the high street - ban all online sales.

Niche high streets can work really well if you have enough footfall. Portobello Road, Tottenham Court Road, Carnaby Street etc. But I don't know about outside of London.

As for eateries, they're all bloody chain eateries now. I can do without a high street dominated by Pret A Manger, Giraffe, Yo Sushi, TGI Fridays etc. Like shops, I want independents. The food's better.

 

[Mr D]

Easy way to fix the high street - ban all online sales.

Niche high streets can work really well if you have enough footfall. Portobello Road, Tottenham Court Road, Carnaby Street etc. But I don't know about outside of London.

As for eateries, they're all bloody chain eateries now. I can do without a high street dominated by Pret A Manger, Giraffe, Yo Sushi, TGI Fridays etc. Like shops, I want independents. The food's better.

Independents are not that great. You go into a KFC in Cardiff, Carlisle or Colchester you know what will be on offer and you know what it will taste like.
I love chicken - just some independent food places don't end up being very good food.

The good ones - perhaps they thrive. Or perhaps they don't.
One of the quicker restaurants I can recall going out of business took a great spot, did plenty of marketing, pretty good decor....
And shut in 3 months.

Can think of several food places that didn't last a year. Perhaps they did not provide what the locals wanted in sufficient quantity. Perhaps they could not earn enough with a hundred hour week. Perhaps the pricing was too low or too high. If I pay £50 for a night out on food and drink fair enough, pay that at lunchtime in a cafe? No thanks.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Once they reach a critical point, there is little need for people to visit and independents cant afford the rents and rates carrying over from the last few years,

I can only speak for Great Yarmouth, but the market has diminished from a large area to just a few stalls, All the major companies have left M&S, River Island, Debenhams, Edinburgh Mills Plus a few Ladies brands so nothing to draw in the footfall

 

[japancool]

Then it ultimately comes down to rent and rates again, which an online sales tax ain't gonna fix.

People have been saying reform rates for years, yet it hasn't happened.

 

[UKSBD]

Tried that, split the town in half. Have to drive around to reach the other side of town to park up for shopping. Its a lot cheaper to catch the bus to a nearby city than drive a third of the distance into town and park up.

That's the general idea, keep car drivers out.

Have enough people living above the shops and enough going on below them and you build small local communities who don't own cars.

 

[japancool]

No, don't ban cars. Some of us are disabled and can't walk far. Make reasonable provision for people like us to get where we need to go.

 

[Mr D]

That's the general idea, keep car drivers out.

Have enough people living above the shops and enough going on below them and you build small local communities who don't own cars.

You want to try walking across pedestrian area because can't park close to where you need to go even with a blue badge.
Nearest cheap car park about 40 minutes walk away, nearest car park about 15 minutes away but takes an extra 10 minutes to cross over the edge of town centre and come back towards town centre.

Small communities who don't own cars? Great.
However they still need to travel to take advantage of other services that aren't in their small community.
GPs, pharmacy, hospital, off license, supermarket, butcher, grocer etc.
And have to walk further to get buses or taxis.

Not owning cars does not remove the need to use taxis, friends or public transport.

 

[MarkOnline]

You want to set up in business in a small wooden cabin go right ahead.
How much do your products need to be seen in order to be purchased?

Some retailers - the stock has to be put in front of customers in such a way as to get sales. Too small an area and can't fit disabled in, can't fit many customers in and people wander off elsewhere.
Small wooden cabin may suit newspaper sellers with a sweet and cakes selection. Doesn't suit a jewelry shop very well.

The cheap tat - the big boys have far from sewn up. Way too much for them to do that.

Yes agreed don't compete on a level playing field with the big boys, you don't want a level playing field. It would disadvantage small businesses to try and have a level playing field with the big boys, the small businesses would lose advantages.

Niche high streets? Wow, you must really want rent and rates to come down. Niches can be way too small.

Didnt expect you to understand, havent you got stuff to pack in the dining room?

 

[Mr D]

Didnt expect you to understand, havent you got stuff to pack in the dining room?

I understood fine hence the reply.

Yes I have stuff to pack. Wife will get onto it this afternoon for 20 minutes or so - busy time of year.

 

[MBE2017]

The High Street will survive, but I don’t think anyone can say for sure how just yet. With internet shopping, the sheer ease, comfort, consumer protections, and enormous stock advantages, that is definitely here to stay, Amazon have shown what is possible.

Free parking will be seen as hugely important moving forward, it takes away a huge annoyance for most, and introduces a much more relaxed experience. For physical stores in towns etc, the stock levels are the hard part, so many cannot afford to buy, stock or display enough anymore.

 

[Financial-Modeller]

Death of the High Street has been discussed for years, but the retail landscape is obviously changing. Three changes will probably be:

Where footfall permits, I expect that we will see more market-hall type venues where a retailer can take space on flexible/'Pop-Up' terms, with shared/outsourced storage and back-office facilities, scaling as they want.

Also, ironically, given that many b&m retailers blame Amazon for their woes, We can expect to see more automated shops, per Amazon's initial forays as Amazon Go and 4*

https://retailanalysis.igd.com/news...-launches-kiosks-in-uk-train-stations/i/21762

FWiW I expect established retailers will move product ranges in high streets away from mass-volume items that can be easily compared and purchased online, towards smaller runs of niche/emotive/experience/personalised products, bought impulsively and/or once touched, smelled etc

 

[Mark T Jones]

Death of the High Street has been discussed for years, but the retail landscape is obviously changing. Three changes will probably be:

Where footfall permits, I expect that we will see more market-hall type venues where a retailer can take space on flexible/'Pop-Up' terms, with shared/outsourced storage and back-office facilities, scaling as they want.

Also, ironically, given that many b&m retailers blame Amazon for their woes, We can expect to see more automated shops, per Amazon's initial forays as Amazon Go and 4*

https://retailanalysis.igd.com/news...-launches-kiosks-in-uk-train-stations/i/21762

FWiW I expect established retailers will move product ranges in high streets away from mass-volume items that can be easily compared and purchased online, towards smaller runs of niche/emotive/experience/personalised products, bought impulsively and/or once touched, smelled etc

Great synopsis.

 

[The Byre]

The High Street is not going anywhere. It will however change.

Rents, rates and general expectations will be forced down to levels where The High Street will be no more valuable or desirable than any other location.

If you look at the successful retailers, they are nearly always NOT on the High Street. They are out of the towns and they are where people can park as they do their shopping as part of the drive home in the evening.

After the war, Tesco, Aldi and other grocers did locate on High Streets - but by the late 60s and into the 70s they were looking at locations on the exit roads from towns with available parking.

The creatures that are doomed are the many shopping malls that have been built in the past 30 years that are now ghosts of their former selves as the Debenhams and other bankrupt retailers shut for good. These are today's white elephants, over-valued, over-priced and empty. These will 'enjoy' a mixed future as domestic housing, play-groups and kindergartens, charity shops - or just stand empty until they are torn down as the failed experiments they ultimately always were! Or converted into flats.

 

[Mark T Jones]

The High Street is not going anywhere. It will however change.

Rents, rates and general expectations will be forced down to levels where The High Street will be no more valuable or desirable than any other location.

If you look at the successful retailers, they are nearly always NOT on the High Street. They are out of the towns and they are where people can park as they do their shopping as part of the drive home in the evening.

After the war, Tesco, Aldi and other grocers did locate on High Streets - but by the late 60s and into the 70s they were looking at locations on the exit roads from towns with available parking.

The creatures that are doomed are the many shopping malls that have been built in the past 30 years that are now ghosts of their former selves as the Debenhams and other bankrupt retailers shut for good. These are today's white elephants, over-valued, over-priced and empty. These will 'enjoy' a mixed future as domestic housing, play-groups and kindergartens, charity shops - or just stand empty until they are torn down as the failed experiments they ultimately always were! Or converted into flats.

True - I can see a lot of malls being white elephants as flagships disappear.

Interesting to see that Primark is now deemed to be a flagship store.

 

[thetiger2015]

That's the general idea, keep car drivers out.

Have enough people living above the shops and enough going on below them and you build small local communities who don't own cars.

That's one of the things that's killing the high street already. Banning vehicles.

In the scenario you've mentioned, the shops would have to rely on those living directly around them. That would mean a very high ratio of living spaces and a low volume of retail shops - shops need multiple customers, customers only need a small selection of shops.

Saving the high street requires MORE transport, MORE people, MORE variety of retail spaces but in close proximity to parking areas and bus stops.

They should create hybrid shopping areas. Big retailers, with markets in the centre for start-ups and fresh food retailers. Create a circular experience, that allows you to hop around shops and cross the market area. Everything should be centrally focused, to create a pleasant shopping experience and a day out for everyone.

Most town centres I see are disjointed. They're useless. You can't find anything because the parking is miles away, costs at least £5 and you have to hoof around for over 2 or 3 square miles trying to find one thing! The bus or train are not always practical, especially if you're carrying several shopping bags or furniture items. I don't think they let you carry mirrors or paint on buses.

 

[thetiger2015]

The creatures that are doomed are the many shopping malls that have been built in the past 30 years that are now ghosts of their former selves as the Debenhams and other bankrupt retailers shut for good. These are today's white elephants, over-valued, over-priced and empty. These will 'enjoy' a mixed future as domestic housing, play-groups and kindergartens, charity shops - or just stand empty until they are torn down as the failed experiments they ultimately always were! Or converted into flats.

Most need pulling down. The brutalist exterior does not lend itself to a pleasant experience. Tiny windows, huge grey concrete that's covered in moss and water stains. Yuck!

Pull them down, have 3 floor buildings with mixed residential and retail. Create a wrap around balcony across the top (but pretty, not concrete and pillars!) and have some foliage and atmospheric exterior lighting/posts.

They've destroyed our high street. Replacing victorian buildings with concrete behemoths that tower over everything and make the entire street cold, dark and wet. They block out any light, any hope. No birds, no trees, just concrete.

 

[UKSBD]

That's one of the things that's killing the high street already. Banning vehicles.

I wouldn't say killing but changing

What is the point of the high street nowadays?

High streets weren't designed for the amount of cars we have today, so if you want to use a car, go to the places that are designed for them and use the high streets for a more suitable purpose.

 

[japancool]

Take a leaf out of Asian shopping malls. Most of them have attached multi-story carparks - which have free parking.

 

[UKSBD]

Take a leaf out of Asian shopping malls. Most of them have attached multi-story carparks - which have free parking.

That's the point I was making

There is a difference between a shopping mall and a high street

Use the shopping malls if you want to use cars and find a better use for the high streets (edit: unless there is space to build a car park close to the high street but without the cars effecting the high street)

 

[japancool]

That's the point I was making

There is a difference between a shopping mall and a high street

Use the shopping malls if you want to use cars and find a better use for the high streets (edit: unless there is space to build a car park close to the high street but without the cars effecting the high street)

How do you propose high streets cater for those with limited mobility, those who might be carrying a large number of shopping bags, children or extra weight?

 

[MarkOnline]

You want to set up in business in a small wooden cabin go right ahead.
How much do your products need to be seen in order to be purchased?

Youve never seen the wooden chalets at a christmas market?

Some retailers - the stock has to be put in front of customers in such a way as to get sales. Too small an area and can't fit disabled in, can't fit many customers in and people wander off elsewhere.
Small wooden cabin may suit newspaper sellers with a sweet and cakes selection. Doesn't suit a jewelry shop very well.

Youve never seen the wooden chalets at christmas markets?

The cheap tat - the big boys have far from sewn up. Way too much for them to do that.

Yeah? there are some multi billion pound setups which may dissagree with you

Yes agreed don't compete on a level playing field with the big boys, you don't want a level playing field. It would disadvantage small businesses to try and have a level playing field with the big boys, the small businesses would lose advantages.

Against someone such as yourself they would.

Niche high streets? Wow, you must really want rent and rates to come down. Niches can be way too small

Yes I want to see high streets where fledgling independents have a chance of trading and earning, I think we should encourage new enterprise. The internet doesnt have to be the only avenue for sales for young enterprises. It could be an area of growth for the right business, but the way rents are stacked at the moment they havent got a chance. If a store is not trading and there is enough room Im sure a council can make £2-3k worth of chalet pay.

.