Why are the Government threatening to make mask wearing in shops compulsory ?

[Richard Cole]

As a shopkeeper this will be another nail in the coffin just as we are trying to get back on our feet, turnover is well down on this time last year, approx. 60% down since I have been open, 15th June. I am all for people voluntary wearing them but forcing people to wear them will keep a large number away from the high street as it takes away from the shopping experience.

I recently took my young son to my G.P. and knowing that I am a shop keeper she told me not to bother wearing a mask or gloves due to the perceived protection they given people, who then keep touching their face, use teeth to remove gloves etc, she advised me to social distance as much as was possible in my shop, use santizer and wash my hands frequently.

I have been open for four weeks now, all my staff are still on furlough as I can not afford to bring them back yet, if masks are made compulsory i suspect I will have to let them all go as my turnover will plummet even further.

 

[Justin Smith]

Ha Ha!

What you are missing is that more than 50% of the population are not going out and spending money in shops. This affects the economy and jobs. It would be a big help to persuade people it is safe if mask wearing was widespread. Just because you want to be selfish is no reason to wreck the economy.

Seeing everyone is masks is not going to encourage the frightened to get back to normal, it's counter intuitive to expect it to.
But I said right from the beginning that the governments attempts to frighten people into staying at home would come back to bite them on the bum when they wanted to get the economy going again, and that is exactly what is happening.
Honesty would have been the best policy, as it always is.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Back to normal is what it should be doing.

How can you have "back to normal" if over 50% of the population who fit into a vulnerable category cannot go shopping because some idiots are too selfish to wear a mask?

 

[Mr D]

As a shopkeeper this will be another nail in the coffin just as we are trying to get back on our feet, turnover is well down on this time last year, approx. 60% down since I have been open, 15th June. I am all for people voluntary wearing them but forcing people to wear them will keep a large number away from the high street as it takes away from the shopping experience.

I recently took my young son to my G.P. and knowing that I am a shop keeper she told me not to bother wearing a mask or gloves due to the perceived protection they given people, who then keep touching their face, use teeth to remove gloves etc, she advised me to social distance as much as was possible in my shop, use santizer and wash my hands frequently.

I have been open for four weeks now, all my staff are still on furlough as I can not afford to bring them back yet, if masks are made compulsory i suspect I will have to let them all go as my turnover will plummet even further.

How does wearing a mask keep people away from the high street? What is being taken away from the shopping experience?
Was in Tesco express this afternoon, wearing mask and gloves as usual - no different than shopping there prior to January.

 

[Justin Smith]

As a shopkeeper this will be another nail in the coffin just as we are trying to get back on our feet, turnover is well down on this time last year, approx. 60% down since I have been open, 15th June. I am all for people voluntary wearing them but forcing people to wear them will keep a large number away from the high street as it takes away from the shopping experience.

I recently took my young son to my G.P. and knowing that I am a shop keeper she told me not to bother wearing a mask or gloves due to the perceived protection they given people, who then keep touching their face, use teeth to remove gloves etc, she advised me to social distance as much as was possible in my shop, use santizer and wash my hands frequently.

I have been open for four weeks now, all my staff are still on furlough as I can not afford to bring them back yet, if masks are made compulsory i suspect I will have to let them all go as my turnover will plummet even further.

This is exactly what I'd have thought would happen. Footfall in Supermarkets may not suffer much, even I will have to make some minor attempt to comply because I have to go into supermarkets. But I will not go into any other shop if I have to wear a mask, nor will I travel on public transport.

 

[Mr D]

How can you have "back to normal" if over 50% of the population who fit into a vulnerable category cannot go shopping because some idiots are too selfish to wear a mask?

Indeed - the people not wearing a mask are a bigger risk than the ones that are wearing one.

 

[Mr D]

This is exactly what I'd have thought would happen. Footfall in Supermarkets may not suffer much, even I will have to make some minor attempt to comply because I have to go into supermarkets. But I will not go into any other shop if I have to wear a mask, nor will I travel on public transport.

Then so be it - your actions will cause those other shops to suffer by your choice.

 

[Justin Smith]

How does wearing a mask keep people away from the high street? What is being taken away from the shopping experience?
Was in Tesco express this afternoon, wearing mask and gloves as usual - no different than shopping there prior to January.

If you don't mind wearing a mask fine for you. Most people do not want to wear a mask, otherwise they already would be doing so. I predict this action (which will achieve nothing to suppress the virus which is already deeply embedded in the UK) will reduce, not increase the footfall into non essential shops. We shall see.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

As a shopkeeper this will be another nail in the coffin just as we are trying to get back on our feet, turnover is well down on this time last year, approx. 60% down since I have been open, 15th June.

I have about 5 items I need at the moment which I cannot get with a click and collect from Tesco. There is a shop in my town which stocks the items but neither the staff or the customers wear masks so they do not get my business. I am sure their turnover is down too.

 

[Mr D]

If you don't mind wearing a mask fine for you. Most people do not want to wear a mask, otherwise they already would be doing so. I predict this action (which will achieve nothing to suppress the virus which is already deeply embedded in the UK) will reduce, not increase the footfall into non essential shops. We shall see.

You keep claiming that wearing a mask will do nothing to suppress the virus.
Claiming something repeatedly does not make it true.

Perhaps those who are worried about the virus should avoid your shop. Just to be safe.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Most people do not want to wear a mask,

Most of the people are selfish and are preventing safe shopping by the majority.

 

[Justin Smith]

How can you have "back to normal" if over 50% of the population who fit into a vulnerable category cannot go shopping because some idiots are too selfish to wear a mask?

Sorry where do you get 50% of the population is in the vulnerable category ? How are you defining vulnerable, as in % chance of death if the virus is contracted ? Though as I've already said it is my theory that a significant proportion of the population is not susceptible to this virus anyway, see Belgium's death rate graph (previoulsy posted) and read about the Diamond Princess.
I'm in my 50s and I'm far more pissed off by all this lockdown than any fear of the virus.

 

[fisicx]

I'm in my 50s and I'm far more pissed off by all this lockdown than any fear of the virus.

You may be but you may be in the minority. I used to teach Tai Chi to a bunch of oldies. I offered to run the class outside. Out of 50 only 7 were prepared to chance it. Of the 60 regulars in the car club not one members wants to meet up at the pub/go for a meal. A lot of people are still very worried.

Being infected isn't the problem for many. It's the effects of that infection that have always been the problem. Those at risk are staying at home. For everyone else, things are pretty much back to normal.

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

This is exactly what I'd have thought would happen. Footfall in Supermarkets may not suffer much, even I will have to make some minor attempt to comply because I have to go into supermarkets. But I will not go into any other shop if I have to wear a mask, nor will I travel on public transport.

Perfect - if people like you stay away from the shops then no one else will become infected because you’re too selfish.

 

[Mr D]

Sorry where do you get 50% of the population is in the vulnerable category ? How are you defining vulnerable, as in % chance of death if the virus is contracted ? Though as I've already said it is my theory that a significant proportion of the population is not susceptible to this virus anyway, see Belgium's death rate graph (previoulsy posted) and read about the Diamond Princess.
I'm in my 50s and I'm far more pissed off by all this lockdown than any fear of the virus.

And yet you are willing to risk death or long term effects in order to keep your notions of control.

Quick, move to the US. Florida is a nice place to be at the moment, lockdown and face masks appear to be irrelevant there.
A mere 15,000 infections - hardly anything eh?

 

[Interestedobserver]

As a shopkeeper this will be another nail in the coffin just as we are trying to get back on our feet, turnover is well down on this time last year, approx. 60% down since I have been open, 15th June. I am all for people voluntary wearing them but forcing people to wear them will keep a large number away from the high street as it takes away from the shopping experience.

I recently took my young son to my G.P. and knowing that I am a shop keeper she told me not to bother wearing a mask or gloves due to the perceived protection they given people, who then keep touching their face, use teeth to remove gloves etc, she advised me to social distance as much as was possible in my shop, use santizer and wash my hands frequently.

I have been open for four weeks now, all my staff are still on furlough as I can not afford to bring them back yet, if masks are made compulsory i suspect I will have to let them all go as my turnover will plummet even further.

Have to disagree with you

I personally would feel safer going shopping if everybody was wearing masks and I was made to wear a mask

 

[Interestedobserver]

If you don't mind wearing a mask fine for you. Most people do not want to wear a mask, otherwise they already would be doing so. I predict this action (which will achieve nothing to suppress the virus which is already deeply embedded in the UK) will reduce, not increase the footfall into non essential shops. We shall see.

They've not been told to wear masks before so uptil now they don't think it will make them safer. Vast majority want to get on with normal life as safely as possible. If wearing a mask helps everyone be safer then the vast majority will happily wear one

 

[MikeJ]

Masks became compulsory in Scotland on Friday.

I stopped to pick up a sandwich on the way to the office, and felt really odd with a mask on.

I went shopping on Saturday to two shops - one gave us hand sanitiser, and directed around one way system in the shop. The second also met us at the door. I'm sure both were making sure we had masks on.

On Sunday I nipped down to the local Sainsbury's (the small one, on a petrol station). There was a guy in the shop without a face mask on. Despite the fact that I was still feeling odd about wearing one, I was annoyed he wasn't wearing one. You get used to it very, very quickly.

Of course, the real benefit is you don't have to worry about shaving every day

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Of course, the real benefit is you don't have to worry about shaving every day

Or to change out of your dirty gardening clothes if no one is going to recognise you.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

That's a bit extreme but a taser should be more reasonable

Ha! I was bought up on Dirty Harry... "You have to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well do ya, punk?"

 

[Interestedobserver]

Ha! I was bought up on Dirty Harry... "You have to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well do ya, punk?"

I know what you're thinking punk

Did I wash my hands 6 times or only 5?

 

[Justin Smith]

Have I got this right ? The government are saying customers have to wear face coverings in shops but the staff do not ? ! ?
What kind of absolute ballcox is that ? ! ?
This government are an absolute shower, they have made the wrong decisions and flannelled about throughout this and continue to do so.....
My wife works in a hospital and they have to wear masks all day, so why do shop workers not have to ? As an aside I can assure people on here that the wearing of masks in hospitals is very unpopular amongst most NHS staff.

 

[Justin Smith]

Why are the government making such a balls of all this winding down of the lockdown ?
Essentially it's because they're trying to square a circle.
On the one hand they're trying to tell everyone to be careful of "this dangerous virus", but on the other hand they're trying to tell everyone to get back to normal as society and the economy is going downhill fast. Basically they have to stop flannelling about and go for one or the other, and the fact is, whether we like it or not, it can only be the latter.
Get some balls and get on with it.

 

[RobinBHM]

hether we like it or not, it can only be the latter

I don't think so.

The virus is in the community, once people become sufficiently complacent the virus will spread again.

And for that reason, your argument that it can only be one or the other doesn't work. If the focus is only on the economy, the infection rate could spiral overwhelming the NHS and would force a total lockdown.

Sadly this govt are using spin as their strategy not honesty.

 

[Ian J]

As an aside I can assure people on here that the wearing of masks in hospitals is very unpopular amongst most NHS staff.

I don't think that's the case at all. My wife is a nurse and she doesn't like wearing a face mask as it's quite uncomfortable to wear all day long which is very different to the wearing of masks being unpopular as most hospital staff are well aware of the importance of PPE

 

[MikeJ]

Have I got this right ? The government are saying customers have to wear face coverings in shops but the staff do not ? ! ?
What kind of absolute ballcox is that ? ! ?

Where did you see that?

 

[Nico Albrecht]

Why are the Government threatening to make mask wearing in shops compulsory ?

The answer is quite simple. For 2 weeks now covid research is showing the covid virus is airborne now which means all the previous measures like 2m distancing crap was useless anyway. The Covid virus can remain infectious in the air for over two hours after an infected person leaves an area. You put plenty of people in a large room and they can become infected over several meters or even different rooms even wearing face masks! Facemask would only be effective if they would sit very tight and of medical grade to filter that DNA out.

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m2720

The only thing that is not sure yet about covid how much air saturation is required to become infectious. Initial testing shows if you live in an apartment block with communal space and a high infection rate you could catch it by just walking into the apartment building.

 

[Interestedobserver]

Why are the government making such a balls of all this winding down of the lockdown ?
Essentially it's because they're trying to square a circle.
On the one hand they're trying to tell everyone to be careful of "this dangerous virus", but on the other hand they're trying to tell everyone to get back to normal as society and the economy is going downhill fast. Basically they have to stop flannelling about and go for one or the other, and the fact is, whether we like it or not, it can only be the latter.
Get some balls and get on with it.

Problem with that is that if we get the second wave like US, Melbourne and others we end up back in lockdown

I feel there must be somewhere in between lockdown and normal we aim to position ourselves

Need something consistent we can do rather than stop start IMO

I'm resigned to more lockdowns the way we are doing things

 

[Mr D]

The answer is quite simple. For 2 weeks now covid research is showing the covid virus is airborne now which means all the previous measures like 2m distancing crap was useless anyway. The Covid virus can remain infectious in the air for over two hours after an infected person leaves an area. You put plenty of people in a large room and they can become infected over several meters or even different rooms even wearing face masks! Facemask would only be effective if they would sit very tight and of medical grade to filter that DNA out.

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m2720

The only thing that is not sure yet about covid how much air saturation is required to become infectious. Initial testing shows if you live in an apartment block with communal space and a high infection rate you could catch it by just walking into the apartment building.

2m useless? Only for the airborne stuff still in the air.
The stuff coming out of mouths? How many water droplets expelled by someone else will you breathe in when close by someone versus 2m distance?

 

[Mr D]

Problem with that is that if we get the second wave like US, Melbourne and others we end up back in lockdown

I feel there must be somewhere in between lockdown and normal we aim to position ourselves

Need something consistent we can do rather than stop start IMO

I'm resigned to more lockdowns the way we are doing things

Yes could position ourselves somewhere between. Hospitals full and higher number of deaths and long term effects (which may make the person more vulnerable to death next time they get the virus) compared to partial lockdown like we had.
Full lockdown would be brutal but no one is doing that.

 

[MikeJ]

Nobody has ever suggested 2m is safe. 2m is much safer than 1m, which is safer than 0.5m.

Above 2m the risk is at an acceptably low level.

 

[Interestedobserver]

The answer is quite simple. For 2 weeks now covid research is showing the covid virus is airborne now which means all the previous measures like 2m distancing crap was useless anyway. The Covid virus can remain infectious in the air for over two hours after an infected person leaves an area. You put plenty of people in a large room and they can become infected over several meters or even different rooms even wearing face masks! Facemask would only be effective if they would sit very tight and of medical grade to filter that DNA out.

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m2720

The only thing that is not sure yet about covid how much air saturation is required to become infectious. Initial testing shows if you live in an apartment block with communal space and a high infection rate you could catch it by just walking into the apartment building.

The above doesn't bode well for restaurants and pubs offices and cinemas etc does it long term once it all gets analysed?

But meanwhile you don't have to wear face masks in pubs and restaurants

And it's 50 per cent off on Mondays to Wednesdays in restaurants!

All the problems in US have come once they allowed people in to the bars and restaurants etc again

It's been clear for months indoor socialising in any way is where the problems lie for all of us ongoing

Do we just have to accept these parts of the economy aren't viable under Covid?

Wales during the right thing and only allowing food and drink to open outdoors?

 

[Interestedobserver]

2m useless? Only for the airborne stuff still in the air.
The stuff coming out of mouths? How many water droplets expelled by someone else will you breathe in when close by someone versus 2m distance?

Outdoor is safer. 2 metre distancing outdoor not a problem either outdoor is it really.

The problem is indoor and the fact 2 metre distancing indoor doesn't work for many businesses either indoor

 

[Interestedobserver]

Be interesting to know if the air filters in planes are strong enough to filter the airborne particles or not. Game changer for airline industry if they are. But similarly game ender if they aren't.

 

[Interestedobserver]

Yes could position ourselves somewhere between. Hospitals full and higher number of deaths and long term effects (which may make the person more vulnerable to death next time they get the virus) compared to partial lockdown like we had.
Full lockdown would be brutal but no one is doing that.

And we would just have to accept certain industries cannot operate until we get a vaccine/cure

Rather than try workarounds that bring rest of economy into lockdown when those workarounds fail

 

[Mr D]

The above doesn't bode well for restaurants and pubs offices and cinemas etc does it long term once it all gets analysed?

But meanwhile you don't have to wear face masks in pubs and restaurants

And it's 50 per cent off on Mondays to Wednesdays in restaurants!

All the problems in US have come once they allowed people in to the bars and restaurants etc again

It's been clear for months indoor socialising in any way is where the problems lie for all of us ongoing

Do we just have to accept these parts of the economy aren't viable under Covid?

Wales during the right thing and only allowing food and drink to open outdoors?

So not planning to use pubs and restaurants this year....

Seriously, a pub in Cornwall fitted an electric fence at the bar to keep customers at social distance from the person behind the bar. Usually not switched on... But it's a barrier.
Reportedly a pub in Oxfordshire banned under 25s from pub after 8pm due to not following social distance.

And Magaluf reports young people on holiday not doing social distancing. Though inability to climb drunkenly onto a car appears alive and well....

 

[Nico Albrecht]

Nobody has ever suggested 2m is safe. 2m is much safer than 1m, which is safer than 0.5m.

Above 2m the risk is at an acceptably low level.

The distance is absolute relative and 1m or 2m makes no real difference showing data collected in test labs but what makes a huge difference how much time 2 or more people spend in that proximity. A couple minutes not a big problem but a prolonged conversation + 20min at that level can increase the risk a bit.

 

[Mr D]

And we would just have to accept certain industries cannot operate until we get a vaccine/cure

Rather than try workarounds that bring rest of economy into lockdown when those workarounds fail

Particular places within industries will have problems too.
My church cannot open - windows do not open at that height and lift would need wiping down after each use - probably 75 percent of us using the church would take the lift.
I know some churches are planning multiple services with cleaning between in order to fit even half the congregation. Moving individual pews can be a pain in the ,..

 

[Mr D]

Be interesting to know if the air filters in planes are strong enough to filter the airborne particles or not. Game changer for airline industry if they are. But similarly game ender if they aren't.

Relatively easy to upgrade filtration systems. Not cheap though.

 

[Mr D]

The distance is absolute relative and 1m or 2m makes no real difference showing data collected in test labs but what makes a huge difference how much time 2 or more people spend in that proximity. A couple minutes not a big problem but a prolonged conversation + 20min at that level can increase the risk a bit.

May not have noticed, most of us do not work or shop in labs.