Why are the Government threatening to make mask wearing in shops compulsory ?

[Justin Smith]

Why are the Government threatening to make mask wearing in shops compulsory ?
This has to be one of the great wonders of the world, particularly at this stage of the game.
Just when the death rate is falling steadily (despite all the "experts" saying we'd get a second spike "when the lockdown was eased off" and/or "when kids go back to school") and the virus is on its way out. Even if it isn't face covering in shops will make no significant difference, particularly as it's not required in pubs, cafes and restaurants, it's inconsistency on a monumental scale. Which, ironically, is completely consistent with how this virus has been tackled by the powers that be in this country......
Apparently, so we're told, it's to give those nervous of the virus more confidence to go out. Are they having a laugh ? Seeing everyone in a mask would be guaranteed to have the opposite effect ! And even if it worked for some of them to a larger number of people having to wear a face covering in a shop would just put them off going in at all. It certainly would for my and my wife.
These donkeys do not know what the hell they're doing and have proved it countless times since the start off all this.

 

[Paul Norman]

I suspect it is because shops seems to be the place where those unable, or unwilling, to keep any kind of attempted distance are most regularly found.

Unless it is part of a cosmic game of Simon say.s

OK. I admit it. I don't know really. As you say, we should probably either wear them everywhere or nowhere.

 

[billybob99]

It's part of a cosmic game of Simon says, coming to a city near you.

 

[Mr D]

Perhaps government are trying to cut down on number of people ill or dead.

If cuts chance of getting the virus why would you not use one?

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

Why are the Government threatening to make mask wearing in shops compulsory ?

Because it is only effective if everyone does it.

 

[Justin Smith]

Because it is only effective if everyone does it.

I don't want to see any government minister, or adviser on this, inside, without a face mask on. Has our Boris considered this ?

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

I don't want to see any government minister, or adviser on this, inside, without a face mask on. Has our Boris considered this ?

Do you think it matters what you want to see?

 

[Justin Smith]

Perhaps government are trying to cut down on number of people ill or dead.

If cuts chance of getting the virus why would you not use one?

Has the Govt done any research on this ? Do most people want to wear one or not ?
This lockdown and the linked social distancing* has seen an unparalleled attack on our freedoms. and being forced to wear a face mask is just one more step. I do not want to wear a face mask, either in my shop or in anyone elses. If we ever get the Old Bill round here saying you have to wear a mask I'll just close the shop and deal by mail order only.
One of the many problems with this potential face mask edict is at what point will they then say, you no longer have to wear one ? I predict it could be a long time.

* which I predict it will be proven to have been be a complete waste of time, certainly if the attendant deaths caused by it are factored in. We will see won't we.....

 

[Justin Smith]

Do you think it matters what you want to see?

That surely depends on if the government want to be seen as hypocrites......

 

[RobinBHM]

e virus is on its way out

I don't think the virus is not on its way out.

There is still infection in the community, if people become complacent there will be a second wave.

I'm not sure of the evidence on face masks, my understanding is a face mask lowers the amount of virus getting airborne if the wearer is CV positive, so success with masks requires a collective effort.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

My understanding is the mask protects those around you... if you have the virus...

Attack on our freedoms...?

I'd like the freedom to shoot anyone who comes closer than 2 metres... Sadly my freedom to do so is curtailed...

 

[Ian J]

I'd like the freedom to shoot anyone who comes closer than 2 metres... Sadly my freedom to do so is curtailed...

That's a bit extreme but a taser should be more reasonable

 

[Justin Smith]

I don't think the virus is not on its way out.

There is still infection in the community, if people become complacent there will be a second wave.

I'm not sure of the evidence on face masks, my understanding is a face mask lowers the amount of virus getting airborne if the wearer is CV positive, so success with masks requires a collective effort.

We will see won't we ? I could be wrong, or I could be right, but I've been right so far. I said there'd be no spike when our lockdown was eased off, nor when many kids went back to school.
Why has no other country in the world (which has a had deep exposure to it, reflected by a death rate of 1 in 2000 or more) had a second spike when they're all winding down their lockdowns ? Why, when the "experts" are interviewed on the media, do they not ask them more awkward questions, just like that one.....

 

[Newchodge]

I think the point being made is '[why masks in shops?' and not in offices, or pubs or restaurants or other peole's homes, or anywhere people meet others in a confined space?

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Why has no other country in the world (which has a had deep exposure to it, reflected by a death rate of 1 in 2000 or more) had a second spike when they're all winding down their lockdowns ?

Because they are all still in the first wave. a second wave will come later in the year.

 

[Forgot password]

Your going to be masked, tracked, tested, chipped/poisoned one way or another buddy so either go off grid or fall into line.

 

[Mr D]

Has the Govt done any research on this ? Do most people want to wear one or not ?
This lockdown and the linked social distancing* has seen an unparalleled attack on our freedoms. and being forced to wear a face mask is just one more step. I do not want to wear a face mask, either in my shop or in anyone elses. If we ever get the Old Bill round here saying you have to wear a mask I'll just close the shop and deal by mail order only.
One of the many problems with this potential face mask edict is at what point will they then say, you no longer have to wear one ? I predict it could be a long time.

* which I predict it will be proven to have been be a complete waste of time, certainly if the attendant deaths caused by it are factored in. We will see won't we.....

Does the government need to duplicate work of others to satisfy you?

How does what people want have any bearing on this? Did people want to be banned from driving 200 miles to the beach? Apparently not - but were still banned from doing it for a while.

Is the Lancet a good enough publication for the research? https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext

 

[billybob99]

Your going to be masked, tracked, tested, chipped/poisoned one way or another buddy so either go off grid or fall into line.

Simpleton approach.

 

[Mr D]

My understanding is the mask protects those around you... if you have the virus...

Attack on our freedoms...?

I'd like the freedom to shoot anyone who comes closer than 2 metres... Sadly my freedom to do so is curtailed...

Also prevents you touching your face with your hands - the one part of your body most likely to pick up virus from surfaces.

If can reduce the viral load you are breathing in, even slightly, that may make the difference between fighting it off or having long term impact.
Just think, if you were to develop chronic fatigue from getting the virus (as has been done) then you could be not working and not socialising for the next few years!

 

[Mr D]

That surely depends on if the government want to be seen as hypocrites......

Has that ever stopped any government in history?

 

[MikeJ]

I think the point being made is '[why masks in shops?' and not in offices, or pubs or restaurants or other peole's homes, or anywhere people meet others in a confined space?

It's much harder to maintain distancing in shops, where you're likely to cross many people in each visit. If you go to a pub, you'll just meet your server, or maybe pass someone on the way too and from the loo.

The "no second wave" comment is rubbish, I'm afraid. We've no idea if wearing masks for the last few months would have brought the rate of decline down much faster. You can see from the figures that England's infection rate and death rate has plateaued over the last week or two. Unless further steps are taken, reducing the lockdown further will result in this staying the same or going up.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

I was in Japan last September where it is the social norm to wear a mask in public if you have so much as a sniffle. A good proportion of people on the streets were wearing masks before Covid 19. Guess which country is among the top to have few cases and deaths? Japan, a country with a population of 126 million, with 27.6% over the age of 65 years (UK 18%). Despite early exposure, Japan reported low infection levels and low deaths from COVID‐19. At the last count they had recorded 17,141 cases with only 916 deaths. Masks work.

The UK has 289,603 Total Infections and 44,819 Total Deaths

Not wearing a mask is the height of bad manners and selfishness.

 

[Justin Smith]

Does the government need to duplicate work of others to satisfy you?

How does what people want have any bearing on this? Did people want to be banned from driving 200 miles to the beach? Apparently not - but were still banned from doing it for a while.

Is the Lancet a good enough publication for the research? https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext

This is good enough for me :

High exposure to the virus = deaths tail off to almost zero. Every country with a high exposure has the same basic shape graph. All these pathetic measures are doing sod all and costing a fortune, we'll see who is right.

 

[Mr D]

This is good enough for me :

High exposure to the virus = deaths tail off to almost zero. Every country with a high exposure has the same basic shape graph. All these pathetic measures are doing sod all and costing a fortune, we'll see who is right.

And Belgium have done what? The exact same as us? Or something different?

Its not the deaths you have to worry about. Its the damage to your body long term - perhaps you will live after infection but be unable to do much. Perhaps you will be in the at risk group for the next wave. Perhaps you will cause someone else to get the virus that harms them?

How much is a mask costing you? A fortune?
I'll send you one in the post. Unused, still in its packet.

 

[Justin Smith]

I was in Japan last September where it is the social norm to wear a mask in public if you have so much as a sniffle. A good proportion of people on the streets were wearing masks before Covid 19. Guess which country is among the top to have few cases and deaths? Japan, a country with a population of 126 million, with 27.6% over the age of 65 years (UK 18%). Despite early exposure, Japan reported low infection levels and low deaths from COVID‐19. At the last count they had recorded 17,141 cases with only 916 deaths. Masks work.

The UK has 289,603 Total Infections and 44,819 Total Deaths

Not wearing a mask is the height of bad manners and selfishness.

I was in Taiwan last year, and the great majority of people were not wearing a mask, it was very much a minority. But that was up to them of course. Any low death rate in those countries is not due to mask usage, but even if it is the UK are way past the point where it will make any difference whatsoever, see graph above.
Countries like NZ and AUS who clamped down really hard very early have had low exposure and therefore a low death rate. Unfortunately they are now reliant on a vaccine because their populations are vulnerable to this virus, unless it becomes less fatal over time of course. But that's a big risk to take.

 

[Justin Smith]

And Belgium have done what? The exact same as us? Or something different?

Its not the deaths you have to worry about. Its the damage to your body long term - perhaps you will live after infection but be unable to do much. Perhaps you will be in the at risk group for the next wave. Perhaps you will cause someone else to get the virus that harms them?

How much is a mask costing you? A fortune?
I'll send you one in the post. Unused, still in its packet.

It doesn't matter what they've done, they have had high exposure and they now have almost no deaths, fact.

 

[fisicx]

IUnfortunately they are now reliant on a vaccine because their populations are vulnerable to this virus, unless it becomes less fatal over time of course. But that's a big risk to take.

Evidence suggest a vaccine will have limited use (just like the flu jab) and any immunity will be short lived. Basically, we are stuck with the virus in the same way we are stuck with the flu and the common cold.

 

[Mr D]

I was in Taiwan last year, and the great majority of people were not wearing a mask, it was very much a minority. But that was up to them of course. Any low death rate in those countries is not due to mask usage, but even if it is the UK are way past the point where it will make any difference whatsoever, see graph above.
Countries like NZ and AUS who clamped down really hard very early have had low exposure and therefore a low death rate. Unfortunately they are now reliant on a vaccine because their populations are vulnerable to this virus, unless it becomes less fatal over time of course. But that's a big risk to take.

Perhaps you are volunteering to be part of a higher death rate? Or just become disabled due to damage?

We are all waiting for a vaccine. Some of us will even take it.

 

[Mr D]

It doesn't matter what they've done, they have had high exposure and they now have almost no deaths, fact.

Your ideology does not make sense.
You state it doesn't make a difference then give your conclusion of the difference it made! Priceless!

 

[fisicx]

It doesn't matter what they've done, they have had high exposure and they now have almost no deaths, fact.

Belgium Population: 11million
Covid deaths: 9,700

UK population: 66million
Covid deaths: 45,000

Belgium has a higher number of deaths per head of population than the UK

 

[Mr D]

Belgium Population: 11million
Covid deaths: 9,700

UK population: 66million
Covid deaths: 45,000

Belgium has a higher number of deaths per head of population than the UK

Or we could look at the US - not all people and not all states are using masks.
Are they someone we should be copying?

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Evidence suggest a vaccine will have limited use (just like the flu jab) and any immunity will be short lived. Basically, we are stuck with the virus in the same way we are stuck with the flu and the common cold.

Perhaps we will get used to having an immunisation card to be allowed to travel. I can remember a jab I needed to travel to Africa which only lasted months.

 

[Justin Smith]

Evidence suggest a vaccine will have limited use (just like the flu jab) and any immunity will be short lived. Basically, we are stuck with the virus in the same way we are stuck with the flu and the common cold.

If that's the case, and I make no comment on its likelihood, all this stuff they're doing at the moment is even more of a waste of time. What are they planning to do, keep us all in face masks and at 1m distance forever ? Pathetic.
The fact is we've had the exposure, we should be taking advantage of it to get back to COMPLETE normality as soon as possible. The new normal ? I detest that phrase and refuse to bow down to a poxy little piece of DNA. I'd like the old normal please.
Having said that, if it actually did have a a death rate of 1 or 2% and really was indiscriminate (as the Govt lied to us at the beginning) I may not be so cocky....

 

[Justin Smith]

Belgium Population: 11million
Covid deaths: 9,700

UK population: 66million
Covid deaths: 45,000

Belgium has a higher number of deaths per head of population than the UK

Correct, I recommend this site, only look at column for the deaths per 1 million population, all others stats are (relatively) meaningless.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

 

[Mr D]

If that's the case. and I make no comment on its likelihood, all this stuff they're doing at the moment is even more of a waste of time. What are they planning to do, keep us all in face masks and at 1m distance forever ? Pathetic.
The fact is we've had the exposure, we should be taking advantage of it to get back to COMPLETE normality as soon as possible. The new normal ? I detest that phrase and refuse to bow down to a poxy little piece of DNA. I'd like the old normal please.
Having said that, if it actually did have a a death rate of 1 or 2% and really was indiscriminate (as the Govt lied to us at the beginning) I may not be so cocky....

What would you rather government do?

Accept extra deaths, overloaded NHS and long term health issues forever?
Or some other coping mechanism?

The old normal is now a fantasy based on nostalgia. No reason the new normal cannot be better than the old normal. Noticed many homeless on the streets begging in past few months?

 

[Justin Smith]

It's much harder to maintain distancing in shops, where you're likely to cross many people in each visit. If you go to a pub, you'll just meet your server, or maybe pass someone on the way too and from the loo.

The "no second wave" comment is rubbish, I'm afraid. We've no idea if wearing masks for the last few months would have brought the rate of decline down much faster. You can see from the figures that England's infection rate and death rate has plateaued over the last week or two. Unless further steps are taken, reducing the lockdown further will result in this staying the same or going up.

I disagree with you, but we shall see shan't we.
Can you point to any other country in the world that has had high exposure to this virus (defined as a higher death rate than around 1 in 2000) which has suffered a spike in deaths when its lockdown was eased off (I define a spike as more or less up to what it was at its peak) ?
No you can't because there isn't one.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Having said that, if it actually did have a a death rate of 1 or 2% and really was indiscriminate (as the Govt lied to us at the beginning) I may not be so cocky....

Ha Ha!

What you are missing is that more than 50% of the population are not going out and spending money in shops. This affects the economy and jobs. It would be a big help to persuade people it is safe if mask wearing was widespread. Just because you want to be selfish is no reason to wreck the economy.

 

[Justin Smith]

What would you rather government do?

Accept extra deaths, overloaded NHS and long term health issues forever?
Or some other coping mechanism?

The old normal is now a fantasy based on nostalgia. No reason the new normal cannot be better than the old normal. Noticed many homeless on the streets begging in past few months?

Other than putting full effort into protecting care homes, and supporting any particularly vulnerable people who are isolating, the government should do absolutely nothing at all. Back to normal is what it should be doing.

 

[Mr D]

Other than putting full effort into protecting care homes, and supporting any particularly vulnerable people who are isolating, the government should do absolutely nothing at all. Back to normal is what it should be doing.

And the cost - you'd pay it personally?

 

[billybob99]

Like Boris says, everyone for themselves, may the best immune system win.