Bounce back loan
- Thread starter OMGVape
- Start date
Not at all.
I'm merely trying to understand the government's reasoning for structuring the BB loans in the way that they have.
I can only conclude that they have built in a projected default rate. I'm guessing at 25% but who knows what they expect and what they might be providing for?
The vast majority of business owners are passionate about their company and will move heaven and earth to ensure its survival. Taking out a BB loan is a no-brainer if there is but a sniff of trading out of this crisis. It could well be a life-saver, it's very cheap, and there is quite literally no risk.
Inevitably though, it won't be enough to save many small businesses. From the government's point of view however, it will still have been money well spent. The loan money will still exist after a debtor company defaults - it will still be circulating in the economy adding to the turnover of companies and earning taxes for the Treasury every time it changes hand.
The alternative is to make these loans available only to companies which don't really need them.
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Exactly.
Helicopter money is never paid back. The majority of this money will be paid back but it will have had the same effect on the economy in the meantime as helicopter money.
This must be the government's intention. Nothing else explains the manner in which these loans have been offered and guaranteed.
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They tried giving loans to companies that could already get loans easily.
Not working so well for the other businesses.
This money appears similar to student loans - some will pay back quickly some will pay it slowly and a bunch will not pay it back at all.
So there is precedent for chucking money at people without being sure it will be paid back.
Overall cannot see government losing out. Increased taxes as a result of the money plus those businesses who do pay it back should cover the cost.
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Quite.
Do we get angry at graduates who go on to take relatively poorly paid jobs in social work or the care sector and never pay back a penny of their student loan?
Even the ones who knew full well when they took out the loan that it would be very unlikely that they would ever have to pay any of it back?
Are they too "Assh*les"?
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That's certainly our intention for the short term.
Whilst we've been very fortunate so far (sales increased) we're already thinking toward October > through Christmas & winter. There is possibly a real danger of a 2nd lockdown around this time. Flu season will no doubt put extra strain on NHS (will enough people even be confident enough to get vaccinated?).
If we do have a 2nd lockdown it will of course be devasting (quite a few won't have even emerged from the current one by that time).
Also, still the ongoing potential for disruption with staff sickness etc.
So, it's a Hurricane fund for us & we will continue to work through the rainy days for now the best we can.
Hopefully that won't happen!
In which case we will be looking at opportunities that arise / investing in the growth of the business & hopefully hiring a few more staff.
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(Raises hand)
Finished my degree 8 years ago, not paid a penny towards loan since. Below graduate tax threshold earnings every year.
Assh*le maybe - but there are quite a lot of us who haven't (yet) earnt more than the graduate tax free allowance.
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3 big things can hit at once. Norovirus, flu, Covid19. While another lockdown later may not be in quite the same format it will hit hard.
And people will still need to hold hoarded supplies as suggested by government.
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Email received back from Natwest today, so my application has now been fully submitted
Quite fancy a new car
All this talk of loans not being paid back etc. In the end, if you are a sole trader like I am, you are gonna pay it back, as long as you are able to
I would hope that the vast majority of people, whether limited or not, will appreciate the loan for what it is and use it wisely!
Quite fancy a new car
All this talk of loans not being paid back etc. In the end, if you are a sole trader like I am, you are gonna pay it back, as long as you are able to
I would hope that the vast majority of people, whether limited or not, will appreciate the loan for what it is and use it wisely!
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I believe the only things protected if you're a sole trader are your main residence and your main vehicle. So if a sole trader becomes unable to repay the loan, I can see the effects being quite devastating.
With a ltd company, while I don't condone it one bit, directors can walk away from a genuinely failed company relatively unaffected.
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I suppose on the plus side, the social distancing measures will of course have the same effect on reducing flu spread as it will with covid19.
But I think it's fair to anticipate at least a couple of steps back regarding restrictions around that time.
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What Lloyds said in their reply from yesterday ...
We are pleased to offer you a loan, subject to checks we are required to perform, on the date and on the terms and conditions set out below and in the application form.
Under the scheme, we are required to provide you with the following statement about this loan:
1. BBLS Guarantee
This Lending Facility is supported by the Bounce Back Loan Scheme (BBLS), managed by the British Business Bank on behalf of, and with the financial backing of, the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy.
Your lender’s ability to provide you with this loan is dependent upon your lender receiving a guarantee from the UK Government under BBLS. The guarantee provides your lender with a full guarantee, should you default on repaying this loan.
2. You are responsible for the repayment of your loan
The BBLS guarantee is provided to your lender and not to you. You remain responsible for repaying the whole of this loan at all times and if you fail to do so this may negatively affect your credit score or rating with credit rating agencies.
3. Obligations on your lender
Your lender has agreed in connection with the BBLS to certain obligations in respect of their relationship with you, including making certain information available to you in relation to your loan. For more information, refer to https://www.lloydsbank.com/business/complaints.html which includes details of your lender’s complaints handling procedure and your right to complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service.
Company details
Interest rate per annum
(fixed)
2.5%
How we calculate interest
We do this on a daily basis on the amount of the loan outstanding. We work out interest for each month on the number of days in that month (based on a year of 365 days) and add it to the account at the end of each month.
What you must pay
You must pay interest each month. For the first 12 months, these payments will be covered by the UK Government's Business Interruption Payment ("BIP"). You also do not have to pay any loan repayments during this period.
This means you don't need to make any payments for 12 months. You must then make 60 monthly repayments of £xxxxx. You must also pay interest that we charge for each month. These payments start 13 months after we pay the loan to your account. You must pay any amounts outstanding on your loan (including interest) on your final repayment date. This will be 72 months after we pay the loan to you.
We will collect payments on the same day in each month (or, if this day does not exist in any particular month on the last business day of that month).
We will apply any payments we receive from you against any interest you owe before we apply it to the outstanding amount of the loan.
Early repayment
You can repay all, or part, of the loan early as long as the amount you repay early is at least £2,000.
If you repay part of the loan early, your loan term will stay the same but the amount of your remaining monthly repayments will reduce by an amount proportionate to the early repayment.
Confirmation
You confirm that you have full power and authority to enter into this agreement, give us instructions and comply with your obligations.
If you are a company or a limited liability partnership, you confirm that you are duly incorporated and validly existing under the laws of your jurisdiction of incorporation.
Events of default
You will be in breach of this agreement if:
If you breach this agreement, we may:
We will give you reasonable notice, and an opportunity to remedy any breach (where the breach is capable of remedy) within a reasonable period, before we take any of these steps.
If we do not use or enforce our rights at a particular time, we may enforce them later.
How this agreement applies if there is more than one of you
If there is more than one of you, this agreement applies to all of you together and each of you individually. This means, for example, that we can ask one of you to make the payments due under the loan and that if any of you break the agreement we may take action against all of you.
If you are a partnership, this agreement will apply to all partners when you take the loan, and any new partners, together and individually. If a partner leaves the partnership, this agreement will still apply to them until we confirm that it does not. We may ask a new partner to enter into a document to confirm that this agreement applies to them.
Set-off
If we hold a credit balance for you on another account (such as a current account or fixed term deposit), we can use it to pay any amounts you owe us under this agreement without notifying you beforehand.
If the credit balance is in a currency other than sterling, we will convert it using our usual market rate of exchange.
Changes we can make to this agreement
We may change any term of this agreement at any time if it is:
We will tell you personally at least 30 days before we make a change to your disadvantage.
How you and we communicate
We will contact you using the contact details you have given us. If these change, you must let us know.
You may contact us using any of the contact details on our website, at http://www.lloydsbank.com/business/contact-us.asp.
If we tell you about a change personally we will do this by letter, email, text, statement message or any other way which is sent to you individually.
This agreement is only available in English.
Transfer
We may transfer our rights and our obligations under this agreement to a third party, including information about you and how you have managed the loan which the third party needs to know.
Law & jurisdiction
This agreement and all our dealings before it is made are:
We will always make every effort to meet the high standards we have set ourselves, but if you ever feel we have fallen short of what you expect, or are dissatisfied in any other way, then please tell us. If you wish to make a complaint please contact us using the contact details on our website.
If you are dissatisfied with the way we have handled your complaint or if it has been over 8 weeks since you first raised your complaint with us, you may be able to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service ("FOS").
You can find our complaints procedures and details about the FOS on our website at the address set out above.
Codes of conduct
We adhere to The Standards of Lending Practice, which are monitored and enforced by the LSB www.lendingstandardsboard.org.uk
We are pleased to offer you a loan, subject to checks we are required to perform, on the date and on the terms and conditions set out below and in the application form.
Under the scheme, we are required to provide you with the following statement about this loan:
1. BBLS Guarantee
This Lending Facility is supported by the Bounce Back Loan Scheme (BBLS), managed by the British Business Bank on behalf of, and with the financial backing of, the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy.
Your lender’s ability to provide you with this loan is dependent upon your lender receiving a guarantee from the UK Government under BBLS. The guarantee provides your lender with a full guarantee, should you default on repaying this loan.
2. You are responsible for the repayment of your loan
The BBLS guarantee is provided to your lender and not to you. You remain responsible for repaying the whole of this loan at all times and if you fail to do so this may negatively affect your credit score or rating with credit rating agencies.
3. Obligations on your lender
Your lender has agreed in connection with the BBLS to certain obligations in respect of their relationship with you, including making certain information available to you in relation to your loan. For more information, refer to https://www.lloydsbank.com/business/complaints.html which includes details of your lender’s complaints handling procedure and your right to complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service.
Company details
Interest rate per annum
(fixed)
2.5%
How we calculate interest
We do this on a daily basis on the amount of the loan outstanding. We work out interest for each month on the number of days in that month (based on a year of 365 days) and add it to the account at the end of each month.
What you must pay
You must pay interest each month. For the first 12 months, these payments will be covered by the UK Government's Business Interruption Payment ("BIP"). You also do not have to pay any loan repayments during this period.
This means you don't need to make any payments for 12 months. You must then make 60 monthly repayments of £xxxxx. You must also pay interest that we charge for each month. These payments start 13 months after we pay the loan to your account. You must pay any amounts outstanding on your loan (including interest) on your final repayment date. This will be 72 months after we pay the loan to you.
We will collect payments on the same day in each month (or, if this day does not exist in any particular month on the last business day of that month).
We will apply any payments we receive from you against any interest you owe before we apply it to the outstanding amount of the loan.
Early repayment
You can repay all, or part, of the loan early as long as the amount you repay early is at least £2,000.
If you repay part of the loan early, your loan term will stay the same but the amount of your remaining monthly repayments will reduce by an amount proportionate to the early repayment.
Confirmation
You confirm that you have full power and authority to enter into this agreement, give us instructions and comply with your obligations.
If you are a company or a limited liability partnership, you confirm that you are duly incorporated and validly existing under the laws of your jurisdiction of incorporation.
Events of default
You will be in breach of this agreement if:
- you do not make payments on time or comply with your other obligations under this agreement;
- you have provided incorrect, inaccurate or misleading information and as a result your loan does not meet the eligibility requirements of the BBLS;
- any information you provided or declarations you made in connection with this agreement is incorrect, inaccurate or misleading; or
- it is or becomes unlawful for us to maintain the loan with you or to do so would, in our reasonable opinion, give rise or be reasonably likely to give rise to us being subject to action or censure from any government, regulator or enforcement agency
If you breach this agreement, we may:
- require you to repay the loan (together with any interest you owe) immediately;
- disclose information about you and your account to licensed credit reference agencies;
- bring legal action to recover the loan; and
- require you to pay any costs and expenses we incur in recovering the loan.
We will give you reasonable notice, and an opportunity to remedy any breach (where the breach is capable of remedy) within a reasonable period, before we take any of these steps.
If we do not use or enforce our rights at a particular time, we may enforce them later.
How this agreement applies if there is more than one of you
If there is more than one of you, this agreement applies to all of you together and each of you individually. This means, for example, that we can ask one of you to make the payments due under the loan and that if any of you break the agreement we may take action against all of you.
If you are a partnership, this agreement will apply to all partners when you take the loan, and any new partners, together and individually. If a partner leaves the partnership, this agreement will still apply to them until we confirm that it does not. We may ask a new partner to enter into a document to confirm that this agreement applies to them.
Set-off
If we hold a credit balance for you on another account (such as a current account or fixed term deposit), we can use it to pay any amounts you owe us under this agreement without notifying you beforehand.
If the credit balance is in a currency other than sterling, we will convert it using our usual market rate of exchange.
Changes we can make to this agreement
We may change any term of this agreement at any time if it is:
- to your advantage;
- to reflect any changes in law, regulation, the BBLS or codes of practice which apply to us;
- to reflect a change we have made to our systems or processes,
We will tell you personally at least 30 days before we make a change to your disadvantage.
How you and we communicate
We will contact you using the contact details you have given us. If these change, you must let us know.
You may contact us using any of the contact details on our website, at http://www.lloydsbank.com/business/contact-us.asp.
If we tell you about a change personally we will do this by letter, email, text, statement message or any other way which is sent to you individually.
This agreement is only available in English.
Transfer
We may transfer our rights and our obligations under this agreement to a third party, including information about you and how you have managed the loan which the third party needs to know.
Law & jurisdiction
This agreement and all our dealings before it is made are:
- governed by the laws of, and
- subject to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of,
- England and Wales, unless the address you provided in your application is in Scotland in which case it will be governed by the laws of, and subject to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of, Scotland.
- We may also take action against you in any other jurisdiction where it would be lawful to do so.
We will always make every effort to meet the high standards we have set ourselves, but if you ever feel we have fallen short of what you expect, or are dissatisfied in any other way, then please tell us. If you wish to make a complaint please contact us using the contact details on our website.
If you are dissatisfied with the way we have handled your complaint or if it has been over 8 weeks since you first raised your complaint with us, you may be able to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service ("FOS").
You can find our complaints procedures and details about the FOS on our website at the address set out above.
Codes of conduct
We adhere to The Standards of Lending Practice, which are monitored and enforced by the LSB www.lendingstandardsboard.org.uk
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Hi
Have anyone had any joy with Barclay Bank? I keep getting error page below
"
Bounce Back Loan scheme
Something went wrong
Please try again
We’re currently experiencing high demand for this page.
If you continue to see this page, you might not be able to complete your application. Please try again in a few days.
If your business requires more than one signatory on the account, we’re working on a way for you to complete your application online, which will be available soon. Please check our Bounce Back Loan page regularly for updates and details on eligibility.
If you need urgent support, please call your usual Business Banking contact."
Regards
Elliott
Have anyone had any joy with Barclay Bank? I keep getting error page below
"
Bounce Back Loan scheme
Something went wrong
Please try again
We’re currently experiencing high demand for this page.
If you continue to see this page, you might not be able to complete your application. Please try again in a few days.
If your business requires more than one signatory on the account, we’re working on a way for you to complete your application online, which will be available soon. Please check our Bounce Back Loan page regularly for updates and details on eligibility.
If you need urgent support, please call your usual Business Banking contact."
Regards
Elliott
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That's a BIG NO to premium bond idea.
Companies can't buy PB in the first instance
You'd have to buy them personally = extracting the money from the company = tax implications
In any case, do you fancy your chances in case you get audited/inspected from HMRC??
To coin a phrase.....are you feeling lucky punk.
Companies can't buy PB in the first instance
You'd have to buy them personally = extracting the money from the company = tax implications
In any case, do you fancy your chances in case you get audited/inspected from HMRC??
To coin a phrase.....are you feeling lucky punk.
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I haven't had any luck with Barclays so far. I keep seeing the same page as you. There are some folks on Twitter saying the issue is to do with their API through Salesforce which is causing the problems some of us are experiencing, obviously Barclays aren't acknowledging this publicly though. So I guess there isn't a lot we can do other than wait. I'm probably going to look at the option of the feeder account with HSBC if the issue isn't resolved the EOP today
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Gotta love Santander support:
Me > I was told to expect an e-mail within 24 hours, it's now been longer than that.
S > Don't worry, you should receive an e-mail within 24 hours
Me > Yes, I know - it hasn't arrived, that's why I'm getting in touch
S > Ah, in that case it's possible there has been a delay.
No s**t Santander!
Me > I was told to expect an e-mail within 24 hours, it's now been longer than that.
S > Don't worry, you should receive an e-mail within 24 hours
Me > Yes, I know - it hasn't arrived, that's why I'm getting in touch
S > Ah, in that case it's possible there has been a delay.
No s**t Santander!
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Use Chrome browser and go to products from the home page the form is on there. Sent mine off yesterday and my £40k should arrive today ‘they said’
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Still nothing back from Santander after signing the paperwork that said we were being offered
We applied yesterday morning, got the documents to sign saying we were accepted at around 2:30pm and not heard a peep since. There are people in this thread that applied after us and have already received their loan. Grrrr Santander!Gotta love Santander support:
Me > I was told to expect an e-mail within 24 hours, it's now been longer than that.
S > Don't worry, you should receive an e-mail within 24 hours
Me > Yes, I know - it hasn't arrived, that's why I'm getting in touch
S > Ah, in that case it's possible there has been a delay.
No s**t Santander!
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Hi James,
Thanks for your advice... I can make it as fas as where it asks you to select your business and then it loads to the next screen and then just says there was a problem and to try again later (the same message screen as above comments)
Just to clarify
1. log into online banking
2. select all products from the drop down menu
3. options available to you - see all funding
4. "apply" button for bounce back London
5. select your business
6. Next pages loads and then crashes into error message screen
Tried on both safari and chrome with the same net results. I envy you
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Question for Nat West customers:
Business is a limited company that wants the loan but doesn’t bank with Nat West. Wife is a personal customer. I don’t bank with them either.
Can she apply on Nat West for the company? Ie is it just identity checking that Nat West wants or is she in any way taking responsibility for the loan?
Frustrating that unless you bank with the top six you can’t get these Bounce back loans easy
Business is a limited company that wants the loan but doesn’t bank with Nat West. Wife is a personal customer. I don’t bank with them either.
Can she apply on Nat West for the company? Ie is it just identity checking that Nat West wants or is she in any way taking responsibility for the loan?
Frustrating that unless you bank with the top six you can’t get these Bounce back loans easy
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Hi James,
Thanks for your advice... I can make it as fas as where it asks you to select your business and then it loads to the next screen and then just says there was a problem and to try again later (the same message screen as above comments)
Just to clarify
1. log into online banking
2. select all products from the drop down menu
3. options available to you - see all funding
4. "apply" button for bounce back London
5. select your business
6. Next pages loads and then crashes into error message screen
Tried on both safari and chrome with the same net results. I envy you
Can you send me a screenshot on here of your error page. Also check your mobile app as I saw it come on there this morning.
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My limited company is a NatWest business customer but it still collected my name on the initial application but when the form accessed via the email link was sent that asks you to confirm it is a limited company applying, the company reg number and then the status of the person signing, (I wrote Director because I am and have sole authority to sign cheques.)
Hope that helps.
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Very helpful thanks - Does it then ask what account you want the loan paid into? Does it look like you could add a Non Nat West Business account number at that point?
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Yes it does ask for the account sort code and number but obviously mine was a NatWest one, so whether it detects / rejects a non NatWest one I could not tell you.
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